In theory this is a possibility, but in practice, with the crop of ITU men on the scene now NOW WAY.
Ok, paint me confused. From what I have seen, there is no one guy that is dominating ITU, not even two guys like in the Killer B days.So yes, when they were around, you would have to win a bunch of races to beat Allistar, there was no reward for just consistency. But today, aren't there like 5 to 8 guys that can win any given race? And if that is the case, isn't that a lot easier for a guy who got 3rd in every single race to be fighting for the overall win? What am I missing? If no one guy is going to win 6 races, then it just goes that a lot of other places are going to count towards the championship.

There probably is a crop capable, but they haven't. Mola is the only athlete to have won more than 2 races in a season for a while now I think.

That is comical. Have you ever heard of Mark Allen, Dave Scott, Scott Tinley, Mike Pigg, Scott Molina, and a few others. Frankly, the competition was crazy compared to the base numbers now days. They also raced so often and at the peak level, as no one does any more.

Not saying the Gomez, Frodo, Ali groups isn't good, perhaps great, but realistically there is far less competition at the pointy end now once you get beyond those 3. It a long way back to the next consistent group that could even rival the consistent results of the previous group.

could also be because these 3 really are the GOATS so no one is close and in the past everyone was more average

Depends on your definition, but all of the old timers I mentioned were definitely NOT average. As I said it was a much smaller base as far as numbers, but the quality far exceeded what is at the top level now. I think overall that is also reflected in the far slower average finish time of Ironman finishers now compared to years ago. Overall the numbers have grown, but I'm not sure the top level has grown accordingly. Most races you follow now do not having the top athletes going head to head virtually every week as in the past, and now if any of those 3 show, the distance to the also runs is fairly large.

Yes, I have been racing ‘81 and was in races against those old legends. They were great for those at the early days of the sport.
Athletes in all sports get better over the years. Jerry West was a super star in the ‘60’s, but not a Michael Jordan or LeBron.
Yes, Allen was great, amount the greatest, but not close to Frodeno’s talent.

---

Team Zoot So Cal

Your opinion. Frankly looking at their best times in Kona, I have to say with the advances in tech, Frodo's times are not indicative of the tech advances compared to Mark's. It's all an opinion anyway, but if one were to determine GOAT based on which one was the prohibit favorite whenever he showed up, Mark has to be on top. Duathlon, Oly distance, Nice distance, Ironman......when he showed he usually dominated. I love Frodo and think he's far and away the best "dependable" one nowadays, but not usually a "lock". Doesn't really matter anyway......kind of like the Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Eric Dickinson, Herschel Walker, Adrain Peterson, on and on debate.....

Can't compare periods. Mark was absolutely great, the best of his era. But specialisation had not yet happened in triathlon. What he did back then is multiple times harder to do nowadays. The level of ITU racing has gone up heaps. Look at the run times (and swim). A guy who was at the top of the world in ITU (Simon Lessing) and looked unbeatable in the 90's just found out how the evolution of the sport was quick in 2000 Sydney where (after dominating the run in the 90's) he couldn't keep up with the Whitfields of the new world.

You are missing everything. Mola has dominated the last years. No way you could win the title against a guy with 5 out of 5 wins with just thirds.

Brownlee was barely run fit (injuries again) and Gomez wasn't on his game pulling up with side stiches @ the close of the race. Otherwise I suspect the race would have gone much like 2014 where Gomez dropped Frodeno and won the 70.3 WC or a run fit AB would have run on down the road @ 1:05 on that short course.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... Gomez and AB are just on another level from other current triathletes up to the 70.3 distance.

You are missing everything. Mola has dominated the last years. No way you could win the title against a guy with 5 out of 5 wins with just thirds. /

I was talking about the current year and times. How's Mola doing?? Anyone looking like they are going to win 5 races?

How's Mola doing?

Pretty well actually. He's already got 1 W. They have Yoko, Hamburg, Edmonton and Montreal all events he's the likely clear favorite and many are sprint distances which favor him. I'm guessing this year at Lusane he'll come int the GF "only needing 8th or better place to win title".


Will he win 5, I doubt it, but he's going to score really really well at almost all those events. Bermuda result is far too much of an outlier result than the rest of the WTS and especially Tokyo in 2020. There's nothing really "hard" about many of the WTS courses.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

And I don't really believe that Bermuda being a "hard" course was the cause of his poor result, there would surely have been some other reason. He has raced many "hard" courses and if doesn't win or podium is always top 10. I am more inclined to think that there was some illness (maybe viral) issue going around his squad, some performed great, most as they usually do, but at least a couple way below par.

The reason was that the swim group he was at went off course and swam a significantly longer distance. They arrived 1 minute+ later to t1, so the race was essentially over for him.

Could any of those guys walk in for a 29.07 on a legit 10k off a hard bike? The Brownlee brothers reinvented short course Tri. None of the old guys would have been able to place top 10 in todays ITU.

I did notice this, but I also think that he didn't appear to have the strength in bike or run that he normally does. Probably a combination of little things were wrong.

Gomez is an amazing athlete but not the GOAT. You have have to win the big races for that. I think at the moment Jan has it. Olympics/Kona/70.3. Especially with that race in SA last year. However, up to 70.3 distance a fit AB win every time.

7,35 at Roth as well

The only time Jan had the chance to win the ITU world's, which he tried more times than anything else was, I believe 2010. He had to be 3rd at the grand final in Budapest to earn the title. He was 30 something. Javier won the title. Then in 2013, Javier won the race that mattered, out sprinting Jonathan Brownlee at home. Supposedly JB being the sprinter and JG the diesel. Plus I guess all the races he won to earn like 9 world titles including many that where single race titles also mattered. In addition his first ITU world was when it was still a single race title. Lastly, he missed a couple of years because he was banned by the Spanish federation from racing due to a heart condition known as bi cuspid heart valve. He almost quit and spent two years without training and fighting legally in his early twenties. This guy deserves much more credit than he is given here.

Gomez is a slightly better Simon Lessing. Legends but no Olympics and no Kona

This! I'd probably pick Gomez first right now if we had to draft athletes to compete in a variety of distances over the course of a season. Amazing athlete and consistency. You can't be GOAT when you focus on ITU for a decade and consistently finish behind AB, including in the biggest race. If Gomez wins a few Kona's, maybe. This may be controversial, but on wins alone you could probably make as strong of a case for Macca or Crowie before Gomez though. Agree that as of right now (according to this armchair quarterback) it's either Jan or Mark Allen.

newManUK wrote:

Gomez is an amazing athlete but not the GOAT. You have have to win the big races for that. I think at the moment Jan has it. Olympics/Kona/70.3. Especially with that race in SA last year. However, up to 70.3 distance a fit AB win every time.

Does the WTS head-to-head mean Ali has beaten Javier 20 of the 27 times they have raced (in WTS races)?

Both have been on the podium in 75% or more of their races which is really impressive

---

Matt

Both have been on the podium in 75% or more of their races which is really impressive //

Both really impressive, yes. But Allistar has won over 60% of his ITU starts, while Gomez 25%. That is truly an impressive stat, one that may never be matched again.

 
From his wikipedia.....


" his career suffered a setback in 2000 when a routine medical test by the Consejo Superior de Deportes (CSD) revealed an "abnormal heart valve", leading to a six-year battle between Gómez and the Spanish sporting authorities regarding his right to compete internationally. He initially won this right in November 2003, but he was not selected for the 2004 Summer Olympics and in 2005 the CSD banned him from international and domestic competition until February 2006"



The table is interesting, but "both 2 olympic appearances" couldve been " 2 golds to one silver"

And that summary is skewed because it doesnt look at any long stuff which would turn the tables big time because AB is still starting in that department (after the silver 70.3 WC debut)