I get that you are joking (I dont think too many triathletes are doing 15 x 200's ) but I'd say swim specific resistance training is AS important as the meat and potatoes sets.

Something tells me they did 15 x 100's on a 1:20 at an aerobic effort as well. That's just, well, boring, so not worth showing.

She confirmed at Endurance Exchange that she will be racing at Abu Dhabi, Yokohama and Cagliari as she focuses the first half of her season on WTCS and racing the best to be ready for Paris. Thereafter, she will be fully focused on the PTO Tour.

Wait so Knibb is actually going to race Yoko? I was only half joking she would "race" for GJ (she isn't going to race for anyone, I'm just playing on the backstory relationships that link Knibb and GJ (Pat) ) as I had assumed from her comments in Nov she was going to skip Yoko.....umm so the battle between GJ and KZ getting the final spot just got really spicy apparently.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

IIRC, her new coach wants her racing the best in the world and focused on short-course to be fully ready for Paris… I doubt there is any domestique’ing in there as I assume she will be racing to hone her own race tactics/skills.

There are two spots that remain…

I wonder if Jess Learmonth will be back to racing by then… that could make for some interesting swim dynamics if she’s on the Yokohama start line, along with Flora Duffy.

You must be alluding to the fact Knibb's "Sport's Manager" is Patrick--but that should be separate and no bearing on where Knibb races & would be more up to her coach and herself. With Knibb being on the team already, she will race where her & her coach feel benefit her most.

As for GJ...let me ask this...Flora Duffy is completely off the radar does anyone know where she is? I mix her in because is seems even an not-so-ready Flora would push GJ down a slot...usually there is a lot of focus on the reigning gold medalist in an Olympic year...you'd think Flora will show up at one of these races GJ is at & affect the dynamics of the races. She has sort of been like the Brownlees in that she disappears for a while & shows up & clobbers everyone periodically...last I heard she has a nagging knee injury and is holding out until the last minute to race so '24 is another gold.

No I mean the final spot to get in the actual AQ race, not even talking about racing for the podium, I'm referencing just getting into the race. If Knibb is in fact racing ,pretty much no one will roll on or be subbed in. So the final spot to get into the AQ to even be there to race for the spot is going to be nuts as it was this past fall.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

You’re right, I’d forgotten Katie is outside the top 5 Team USA athletes…

It was more of a joke in the fact that Knibb racing one of the "weaker" WTCS events really will have no good or bad impact on her other than podium/race winnings. Add in the fact that if Knibb races, she then is 1 less spot for US women, so in theory her involvement could directly impact whether or not GJ even makes the race start or not. Of course Knibb or anyone has the right to basically pick their own race schedule and if that's what they want/need for Paris prep- go for it (GJ raced AQ's having already qualified so it's not unheard of for athletes to race the schedule they want to race; and telling an AQ not to race an event is sorta bad karma type of move if your a federation). Hell Knibb racing will only motivate the front group to have a carrot to help keep the chase pack away longer imo. And of course Knibb racing and likely podiuming is now 1 less spot the other Americans can finish in on the podium and make the team.

So I think finding out Knibb is planning to race is a huge revelation. So I was theorizing a way GJ could beg/borrow/steal Knibb to help her in that event through her relationship w Pat as her agent.

With very limited schedule and all races being sprint distance before Yoko start list is created, it's pretty much going to flip this spring where KZ is going to have to race WC route and win, while GJ is hoping to finish top 10 at Abu Dhabi WTCS to secure her Yoko spot. A KZ WC win and GJ 13th or worse, will flip the standings.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Haha yes was having a joke.

Looked like a SCM pool. I didn’t see the 15x100 set

I’ve never done any sponge or parachute resistance work but I know that it’s been around about as long as goggles so I bet it works well

You swam out at Florida a few weeks back right? Did you see any parachute or sponge or just pull paddle and swim for the distance team?

Tk and gj both have very different strokes. Gj is obviously not swimming her best right now but she would have been a demon with pull paddles at her swim prime

Son swam with KLs club team, in DC, not Florida.

But to answer your question, yeah this kind of resistance swimming is all the rage.

Looked like a SCM pool. I didn’t see the 15x100 set //

I dont know about that, their 15x200 set ending on the 2;40 would have been pretty studly if SCM. I'm thinking it was SCY, like most of the pools we have here in the US. And towards the end Taylor says something like if we did a 2;15 or something, then it would be noteworthy. That would be a hell of a time for those ladies in SCM


Fun video for us fishes. IT was the most interesting Gwen vid I have seen in awhile...

As much as I root for Gwen, I find her videos meh. So I didn’t watch until just now. I thought you were theorizing she did 15 x 200s. My bad.

I think the pool is was SCM too. Of course I didn’t Google Monarch Coyotes to try and find out.

Something tells me they did 15 x 100's on a 1:20 at an aerobic effort as well. That's just, well, boring, so not worth showing.//

They had a good shot of the whole workout, and no 100's. And it all adds up too with the 15x200's to the 4800 they talked about at the end with the warm up sets.. So Taylor started out at 2;34 pace and then descended, but she didnt say to what time. Thinking mid to low 2;20's??


At any rate, maybe I'm out of touch with how fast the womens swim these days. But if that was SCM, then that was pretty fast, and they did not seem to be distressed at the end of the repeats they showed us. That would equate to something like 2;10+ for SCY if it was meters. IS that a set Gwen can do, 15 of them with no break and not looking that stressed??


I'm sure it is a set that Taylor could do on a pretty hard day, but perhaps I'm just laying over my own ability here and not giving them enough credit....

I'll be honest I wouldn't be surprised if it was SCM as have seen junior club girls in the UK do the exact same set off the same cycle. Whether or not it was completely aerobic is maybe harder to tell. But I wouldn't rule this out.

Looking at the banners and then looking up the high school, the swim results are in yards

EDIT person posted below it is meters

I can confirm this is SCM as I am a regular at that pool.

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Todd Suttor

Working Triathlete Elite Development Team
Professional Triathlete
Instagram

thanks for clarifying. It's nice to see there are a few other swim geeks out there.

Thanks for the info!!

Those are some impressive times to me

yeah, that was a pretty legit set and bodes well for Gwen. We can only guess how distressed Gwen was from the effort but it appears that it wasn't that difficult. IN the spirit of over-analyzing but its what we do: If you can go a 5:15 in the 500 yard free you should be able to hang with the front pack 90% of the time and that is right where I'd expect a 5:15 500 swimmer to be in terms of a 200 set. Especially if that was a true aerobic set.

I was thinking funny the school records are in yards, but then remembered I swam for almost all of my pro career in a SCM high school pool. They could reverse it to swim SCY for their meets, so not unheard of.

And when I think about the set more, as an aerobic one, Taylor probably only descended down to low 2;30's. She said she was doing in blocs of 5. And we have to remember that Gwen was probably at least 5 seconds or so behind, we really never got to see exactly. But there were all those underwater shots of her trailing, just dont know where in the 200 that was.

So on reflection and a SCY conversion for most of us who swim that format, Taylor swam low 2;20's to high 2 teens for the 15x200. Gwen was probably mid 2;20+'s or there about. I really dont believe that puts Gwen at a 5;15 for a 500, but certainly it is in range for Taylor..

We need more of these types of vids, I remember when all the guys were in town for the La Quinta 70.3 awhile back. Vincent Luis and a few others were at the pool I was swimming at, and I just sat there watching them go at it. Ripping off 1 minute 100's and below when the pressure was really on. And these were just pre race easyish swims too. Looking back I should have flipped my phone on, next time for sure...

Her whole race is basically going to come down to the swim + first 3 mins of the bike. If she is front pack swim, it’s only helpful if she holds wheels 1km into the bike when the groups are trying to put pressure on each other and gaps trying to stick.

Olympic trivia that is relevant to this point:

Who was the last person out of T1 in front group at Rio? Who 3 mins later got popped off from the front group mashing the hill?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Thanks for the clarification. SCM makes more sense. I was kind of confused because I could swim that set in SCY faster than what they were doing, but I am about 2 minutes slower than Knibb in a 70.3. That swim in SCY would be easy bordering on recovery pace for Knibb.

I doubt that the first 3km on the bike is going to be what matters (apply that logic to the WTCS final with the men). There's all kinds of dynamics at play that could unfold, indeed are more likely to unfold than the scenario you imagine. I understand your point about "even if" she makes front pack (unlikely) that front pack is going to try to hammer the race to make gaps stick or grow and she likely will struggle to hold on to that.

But it's just as likely that she swims second pack and gets pulled up or near to the front and runs her way into the podium. If you disagree show me your prediction for the WTCS final where Yee and Wilde ended up blowing a few opportunities. I highly doubt the male or female races will unfold the way anyone expects. There's a lot of talent out there and it's too difficult to predict exactly how everything will play off each other.

I think at this level, the general strategy is... swim really hard, then bike really hard, then run really fast. And see where that gets you.

The point your missing is if you make the front pack and can sustain the initial surge your in much better shape than relying on being pulled up to the front pack from a chase pack position with the women. The tactics will come down to Knibb. If she makes front pack, no chase pack will catch. If she misses, you better pray to your God you just got a mulligan to winning a medal. That’s 99% accurate prediction. The reason why Knibb didn't attack once the chase group caught is that there is too many people at that point that can fill the gaps. Unlike when it's a group of 8-12 where an attack actually causes gaps in the front group. An attack from a 30 person group is more easily brought back. So it'e s a waste of energy to try and break up a group that big. So imo the tactics in Paris for the women aren't really complicated. If Knibb makes hte front group, who from the chase group is going to bring the chasers back when the front group is almost certaainly bound to attacking the hell out of each other. For the men, I don't see how the 2 groups don't come together on that type of course profile.

So yeah I’m going to totally disagree with you, but all good. You’re nuts if you think the women are racing anything close to the men’s tactics,

It’s very unlikely the winner of women will come from Chase pack and very likely men will all come together.

Psssst my trivia question to Rio is what I think can happen to someone who can’t sustain the initial bike power in Paris. Front pack swim but not sustaining that in women’s is almost certainly going to leave you off the podium.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II