It would be interesting to see a full break down of what all the DQs did in terms of points and standings for all affected.

And a surprisingly big one. I didn’t think it was much based on the narrative here but after saying overhead video it was 2 lane widths each direction. Lane widths are typically around 3 meters so that’s a 12 meter advantage. Still looks like KZ would have won but GJ would have been close for 2nd.

In the video you can see the french athlete start to go left following the moto, she then looks at the group and sees they aren’t going left.

Then, KZ starts to make a pass and is just charging through and completely misses the deviation of the course to the left and last minute the french athlete rejoins the group. https://imgur.io/a/qjzzsuG[/url]

Yup. I don’t mean to be ugly but if I were to attribute blame, I think KZ gets the most. She was in terminator mode and just didn’t see the cones.

Yeah, I agree with that; KZ was in killer mode and completely missed the moto drifting left. Godoy and Zimovjanova responded to Katie, and Gautier didn’t trust her instincts.

In post 340 I give the data: the women ran in :50 a section that took the men :53. It’s not just the distance, it’s the change of direction, the narrowing of the path, etc.

Frankly this shouldn’t even be controversial.

What the DQ has now forced is USAT to make a decision at some point in the spring- do they sub KZ in and GS out (assume Knibb sits out say Abu Dhabi). So whether it was KZ winning or GJ winning, the assumption was both were going to pass GS and sorta then put the pressure on GS to chase points through the AG's format. While she may still do that (she did finish 2nd last year after all), it basically means an athlete who clearly was in great form today (KZ) is no longer in the discussion unless the federation jumps in to keep her in the discussion. GS finishing now 2nd mathematically eliminates KZ (even if she raced WC New Plymouth) unless USAT puts her in Abu Dhabi. GS has the same points she just won rolls off into the previous category this week, which means she basically doens't lose any points and thus gains huge points in the previous category.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I take that back. Everything I said, I take back.

That is all.

P.S. Terrible day for short course triathlon, but the protesters aren't responsible.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Good for you for owning up. I’ll go a step further, I don’t like the counter protest at all. This was course cutting, who possibly is trying to justify that?

I’ll say this, Gwen can really run. What would we be saying if Gwen nipped KZ at the line in a fair race? What if KZ held her off (likely) and won despite the bad T2?

What we aren't saying is the reality still GJ faces- she's closer on the swim but still a ways off on the bike. She's not going to run down the 3-5 best short course runners in the sport giving up 20s out of T2. But all this world traveling and zig zagging all over the universe has put herself squarely in the position that we can legit find out just what a off season of specific training will mean for her. The run is certainly there....now it's a question can she find that bike power to make the run truly count. Kudos to her for busting her ass, traveling all over the world and doing what she had to do. Hell kudos to evety American for making every spot absolutely count. They've all basically fought for every spot/point and GJ has certainly earned the merit of being 5th American going into the off season.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Course cutting is intentional. This? Not remotely.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Yeah, I take umbrage with the “cutting the course” thing. I know it’s semantics but when he says “this was course cutting” it reads a bit accusatory.

Anyways, I think the call from the judges was the right one.

I think this was a case of the punishment not fitting the "crime". But that's the rules, and that's my issue I have with races that put it solely on "athlete responsibility". Just make sure the race does it part in the equation to support the athletes so stupid mistakes like this don't cause a black eye for both the race organization and top athletes.

IE- WT learned their lesson by putting an official who was directing traffic at that diverging point in the men's race. Unfortunate that no one thought of that before the women's race.


(This was certainly not athletes trying to "cut the course" imo)

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Why did none of the other racers seem to have a problem following the prescribed course, even though they didn’t have the benefit of motos (that went the correct way) to follow?

Why did WT put an official at that point for the men's race after that issue in the women's race if it apparently was easy to navigate except for 4 athletes?

Are you really going to argue they shouldn't have had an official there to direct traffic at a point where 1 lap goes 1 direction, another lap goes another direction? That's a no brainer you have someone there to "direct traffic"....

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Or how about a damn sign Lap<==, Finish==>. I can't remember a two lap course that I have done without a sign.

Additionally, what was the point. They bike through there twice; why the side step on the run. Its a sprint race so the gaps are tight and it was a two lap run, not like it was a four lap run with the high probability of lapped runners. Bad course design (other than that I like the course).

It depends a bit on if it was discussed at the pre-race meeting, as someone elsewhere stated it was. I’ve done pre-race course walkthroughs with pros for races before and whenever anyone had questions they were sure to verify what they were supposed to do.

We'll just agree to disagree, which is all good. I think it takes both parties making sure the event goes off with the least minimal issues. Anytime an course has a point on the course where over different laps you go in different directions, it makes no sense not to "help" the athletes directing them during the race in that type of scenario.

I don't think many race organizers would disagree with that assessment/policy.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yep, exactly.

We’re not on the same page.

I accept that it was an accident. But the counter-protest was not. They had all the evidence we have. They knew they received an unfair advantage. They pressed their case for two hours and then filed a counter protested.

It became cheating the moment someone tried to let an unfair result stand.

This was the standard all of you used when you criticized the initial filing of the protest. Have you forgotten that you did that? You deemed
the result fair and thus Gwen should be ashamed for questioning it. (FYI the initial protest was filed by 3 parties). I’m merely applying your standard in reverse. Once the unfair advantage became evident, the results and Dqs should have been certified. It was not. That’s not okay.

Did I say anything about the counter-protest? I agree that most likely it wasn’t necessary. But calling it “cheating”?

Can you please point to any comment made by me saying that Gwen was cheating for protesting the result?

For the information we had at the time it made her look bad, that’s all I said. For the information we have now I think it was the right move.

Also, we were told that making protests is totally fair and normal, but now YOU are accusing KZ of cheating for doing it. It looks like you are the one doing that of which you are accusing me of doing.

The only thing I'll add to the discussion. KZ likely was only able to communicate with the officials by filing the counter protest. She almost assuredly was not part of any communications of the protest, the officials likely didn't need to get her side of the story. It was fairly easy to see they went the wrong way. So the protest likely was only between the athletes protesting and the competition jury. KZ would basically have been kept out of the loop so to speak. So a counter protest may be filed just to get a better understanding in front of the competition jury, even if you know it won't work.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I’ve been to plenty of races where there are laps that converge on a point and the finishing lap goes in a different direction, and although it’s explained at the briefing, there’s still always someone (or a sign there) explaining how the intersection works.

Your “they told them at the briefing, and they don’t have to tell them again” seems just a cop-out to not say that the organizers messed up a bit today.

I didn’t accuse anyone of cheating. I am merely applying your standard. I found the counter protest distasteful.

If you find the term course cut distasteful I am willing to use any other accurate description of running a distance shorter than your opponents. You are the one attributing intent, not me.

And for the record, you certainly attributed intent to Gwen earlier in the day when Brazil, GB and USA filed a protest prior to the race finishing.

You and I we aren’t going to get anywhere, so let’s just stop here.

I already said that as more information came out I think Gwen protesting was the right thing to do, and the decision made by the judges is fair and based on the rules.

I’m done.