Isn't power/time more relevant indoors anyway?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Nothing cryptic about it: with WKO+, the values displayed are exactly what are found in the powermeter's memory, with absolutely zero massaging, smoothing, interpolation, etc. So, if there are odd "spikes"* in the Quarq's data, they are due to either the powermeter or the Garmin 705.

*My track SRM occasionally does this at very low rpm - I think it is due to the reed switch in the crank double- or even triple-triggering as it slowly passes the magnet embedded in the b.b. sensor. OTOH, my road crank generally doesn't show this behavior, probably because I never pedal it that slowly. Sometimes, though, I get an odd value due to spinning the cranks backwards when quickly unclipping for a surprise stop.

Got my CinQo last week as well. Managed to get it installed Thursday PM and rode Friday, Saturday, and Sunday (the bike went off to Placid on Monday.)

The CinQo on FSA cranks:


The bike as a whole:


Bottom line: Simplicity itself to set up; I swapped out the cranks, installed the cadence magnet, turned on my 705, spun the cranks backwards a few times to "wake up" the Cinqo and the Garmin spotted it. Then I could've ridden (but it was ~midnight and I was tired, so I went to bed.)

Power numbers while riding looked appropriate (ie: they were correct, but unfortunately low as I haven't been training well), although (as others have mentioned) there is a 1/2-1 second lag between applying force to the cranks and seeing the change on the Garmin. I gather it is because of the filtering/smoothing/whatever that the 705 does. Not an issue. The one problem I did have with the Garmin was that (after having changed recording time to every 1 second), it wrote over my initial data. Apparently the Garmin only stores ~4.5 hours of data per file. In Garmin's defense, it popped up a message warning me it was going to do that (after 4:30hrs), but I figured that with 5 miles left I would be fine (turns out you only get ~5 minutes after the warning message.)

Post ride, I managed to upload to Garmin Training Center (which didn't do me much good as it doesn't show power), but from there to WKO+ (aka CyclingPeaks.) [One note: There are different builds in version 2.2, I used to have build 86 which didn't take the power info from the Garmin file, the current build (91) does.] And from there (just for kicks), to TrainingPeaks.

Bottom line - the CinQo is simple to setup and use; I think that Jim and Mieke did a great job in making sure it was right before they released it. Having used SRM and been exposed to PowerTaps & Ergomo, I've got to say that the CinQo is my powermeter of choice right now. (having said that, there are 13 other bikes in the house, 11 of which don't have powermeters - outfitting them all would be a bit spendy, so I still like the PT concept, but between the performance of the CinQo thus far and the great support/interaction/willingness to accept input from the folks at Quarq they get my vote.)

Norm

Does that mean you lose the ability to record speed/distance for indoor activities? [/quote]
Yep, sorry - my bad. Being in SoCal, I forget that sometimes people have to do stuff inside ;) If you take off the wheel sensor you won't get speed/distance indoors. I think the sensor is also used if the GPS signal is bad, but I ran into more issues with it on (the 705 takes the sensor data over the GPS data - I used to sporadically get double speed or 0 speed figures.)

Most likely. It's why I have been planning on getting a power meter in the first place.

On the other hand, I have a growing collection of data that uses speed (with the published power curve of my trainer) as a rough "power proxy" or measure of intensity. I think it would be useful to be able to collect both in parallel, at least for a while, to be able to correlate the two.

It's like the newspaper articles I see out every couple of years along the lines of "OMG! violent crime is up! -- never mind the fact that the police department has changed the definition of violent crime, or how it's measured, etc. -- OMG! what are we going to do!". The fact is we don't really know whether crime is up, down or the same, as we haven't re-done the historical data with the new definitions nor the new data with the historical definitions. There's no way to compare the two.

Actually I still need the speed sensor for the iAero (yes I'm using the iAero for continuous CdA). But I did take off the cadence magnet.

No, the Garmin will still pickup the speed signal from the GSC-10 speed/cadence sensor for indoor workouts, however it will ignore the Garmin cadence signal and use the one provided by CinQo. As I understand this is so that power and cadence are perfectly in sync.

At some point I'm going to try the CinQo on my InsideRide Rollers to see how it correlates with their published power/speed charts. My feeling over the Winter is the InsideRide numbers are too high. I just refuse to ride indoors at this time of year, so it will wait.

Agree 100%. I only have experience with the Polar Power meter before the CinQo, but I have to say the support and responsiveness from Quarq, not to mention the apparent quality of what they have produced have solidified my decision to wait for them. I was very close to getting a PT SL 2.4 last Fall but when the Quarq press release came out in conjunction with the Garmin 705 press release, I held off over the Winter. It was a long wait but I'm extremely happy I did.

As Robert stated in his post, the data shown is from February 2008. The spikes in the power data are artifacts due to a CinQo/Edge 705 communication bug (not actual torque measurements). This bug has been corrected. We have not seen any crazy spike power values since the correction, so please let me know if you ever see one.

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James Meyer
Quarq Founder / SRAM

Yep, the 705 with the GPS on and magnet, do not work together correctly. Waiting for 2.3 f/w.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

"I resent your "sexier setup" comment! ;-) Are you saying my probably first in Canada Cinqo is ugly? hehe

I was resisting the urge to call the Cinqo "awesome" due to how new it is but I do have to say it kicks ass IMHO! You really have to respect people who resist the urge to put out a less than perfect product even when they probably have bills to pay.

Ken "

I wouldn't resent that comment since that is really one hell of a "Franken-Crank" he's got going there, crossing up Bontrager and FSA components like that!!!

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"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

I may have missed something, but I have no problem all all running the 705 with the magnet.

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"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

Yep, if you never lose GPS, you will never see the issue.

When I commute to and from work, where the GPS signal never drops, it works perfect.
(Meaning, whether I have the magnet on or off makes no difference since it is never "used")

But, when I go up in the hills like I did this morning, with the trees and hills, I lose it all the time.
If I use the magnet, it either goes nuts or stops. With the magnet off, it will at least start up again.

I talked with Garmin support and they have this as one of 13 critical issues to be fixed in 2.3 f/w.
They were just not sure when it will be released.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

gps aside... how do you(testers) feel the unit compares to PT or SRM?

From the reports so far the cinquo is looking the good. If I were to purchase I would be staring from scracth so would need to get a Garmin, Qranium, or a IbikePro. What would you guys recomend? The garmin would be good as I would then have a GPS, and a unit for speed to use on alternate bikes. The I bike pro would mean I have a souce to measure power on other bikes. I dont think the Qranium gives me any advantages possibly apart from size, and it is the most expensive.

Which direction should I go?

Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't want to do a full analysis until you were into production. I'm hoping we'll see more "Rosetta" files soon.

Having a problem with my 405 too in this regard. Ditched the sensor and using GPS plus a SIGMA bike computer. Doesn't really matter for me because the 405 is more for post-ride analysis, anyway. Don't think I will bother with the sensor even when the firmware is updated. I've never been too enamoured with cadence.

There are two magnets. One is for cadence, and it has always worked fine. The other is for speed, distance, etc. .
When the GPS drops, this magnet is supposed to take over just like if you were using the unit indoors with the GPS turned off.
So, to have the unit work correctly, this magnet must work. On my 30 mile rides in the hills, my cheap computer shows 30 miles,
the 705 show around 20, so it is a big deal.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

+1

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"Yeah you point a finger back far enough and some germ gets blamed for splitting in two."

Colonel Saul Tigh from Battlestar Galactica

So if I already have the 705 and FSA Team Issue cranks, I can just order the Quarq? Can I install it myself, or do I need to ship the cranks off?

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Breakfast is for Closers

Was it a mass start or a wave start? If the latter then we need the actual time. Also need to check that these guys are in the same time zone!!

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