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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Not everyone can be like Paula Newby Fraser, Dave Scott, Mark Allen and Tom Brady


Charles-Barclay hasn't raced Kona 8 times yet. It took Allen that long to win. She did get an AG win in her first Kona. :) Yes, Allen was winning nearly every other race before he finally won Kona.

Is there a silent majority that doesn't have strong opinions about Sanders? I'm obviously impressed by his talent and passion. His back story is interesting and inspiring. I'm just not that interested in his social media posts. Of course, fandom is good for pro sports.
Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Mar 13, 21 8:36
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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She's got the added bonus of ITU girls moving up after the Olympics to contend with also (Duffy, Zafferes, Holland) could all transition well, aswel as Findlay, Stimpson, Lawrence all now proven over half distance.
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [domingjm] [ In reply to ]
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domingjm wrote:

Agreed. The bulk of the others, when outspoken, are generally decent in nature. Starkey just seems like an un-fun and insecure jerk.

check out his social accounts. his "personality" oozes there. i follow it just for fun to see how much of a jerk he can be to followers. i used to think it was his schtick, but now i know he really is just a jerk.

80/20 Endurance Ambassador
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [damon.lebeouf] [ In reply to ]
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I have seen him in action post race and he is equal parts on the spectrum and self righteous. I personally think that he is an asshole but I do not think that he realizes that he is an asshole. That said, he is an asshole.
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Also is it possible that Lucy is over swimming in many races. Just because you can swim fast does not mean it is not using incremental energy and building up lactate. Maybe if she just swam a touch slower she could have more for the back end of the run course. In smaller races she does not need as much juice to win by running faster. The incremental swim gap may not be worth the added fatigue that slows down the run a touch. I think she also had Covid19 for Challenge Daytona, and I don't know if it was a non event covid19 bout that was asymptomatic or if she got somewhat sick and lost training time.
She was asked about that in an interview. Her answer was that is was harder for her to swim that slow. So I don’t think she’s over swimming at all. She’s also only in her Mid-20s so plenty of time for her endurance to improve. Lastly - where does she finish without the penalty?

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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [BayDad] [ In reply to ]
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Im guessing Jodie Still wins without the penalty, I think she would have caught her with about 1km to go (the ITU speed would have came through) would have made for a very exciting finish.
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I suspect both Jodie and Jan had more to give if needed. Would have been fun to see that, though....

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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [BayDad] [ In reply to ]
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BayDad wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Also is it possible that Lucy is over swimming in many races. Just because you can swim fast does not mean it is not using incremental energy and building up lactate. Maybe if she just swam a touch slower she could have more for the back end of the run course. In smaller races she does not need as much juice to win by running faster. The incremental swim gap may not be worth the added fatigue that slows down the run a touch. I think she also had Covid19 for Challenge Daytona, and I don't know if it was a non event covid19 bout that was asymptomatic or if she got somewhat sick and lost training time.
She was asked about that in an interview. Her answer was that is was harder for her to swim that slow. So I don’t think she’s over swimming at all. She’s also only in her Mid-20s so plenty of time for her endurance to improve. Lastly - where does she finish without the penalty?

Lucy has had issues in the races where she has company on the bike. If I remember in SA 70.3 worlds she was flirting with the draft zone with Daniela, then the penalty in Nice. Again with another rider with her and passing, a penalty. Not saying she cheats - but just near zero experience being anywhere other than off the front of a race. The lack of patience or tactics seem to get her a little.

Without the penalty? Who knows - Jodie looked as in control as Paula in Daytona - like there was more there if needed.

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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dfru wrote:
BayDad wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Also is it possible that Lucy is over swimming in many races. Just because you can swim fast does not mean it is not using incremental energy and building up lactate. Maybe if she just swam a touch slower she could have more for the back end of the run course. In smaller races she does not need as much juice to win by running faster. The incremental swim gap may not be worth the added fatigue that slows down the run a touch. I think she also had Covid19 for Challenge Daytona, and I don't know if it was a non event covid19 bout that was asymptomatic or if she got somewhat sick and lost training time.
She was asked about that in an interview. Her answer was that is was harder for her to swim that slow. So I don’t think she’s over swimming at all. She’s also only in her Mid-20s so plenty of time for her endurance to improve. Lastly - where does she finish without the penalty?


Lucy has had issues in the races where she has company on the bike. If I remember in SA 70.3 worlds she was flirting with the draft zone with Daniela, then the penalty in Nice. Again with another rider with her and passing, a penalty. Not saying she cheats - but just near zero experience being anywhere other than off the front of a race. The lack of patience or tactics seem to get her a little.

Without the penalty? Who knows - Jodie looked as in control as Paula in Daytona - like there was more there if needed.

so this forum rips LS for doing stupid shit (wrong swim suit) and not having a coach. yet when Lucy does rookie mistakes (pass on the left, flip over handlebar) and (to the best of my knowledge) is coached by her mediocre-pro husband, no one says anything. Watching her finish 2nd so many times is heart breaking, she should do everything she can to win
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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dfru wrote:
BayDad wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Also is it possible that Lucy is over swimming in many races. Just because you can swim fast does not mean it is not using incremental energy and building up lactate. Maybe if she just swam a touch slower she could have more for the back end of the run course. In smaller races she does not need as much juice to win by running faster. The incremental swim gap may not be worth the added fatigue that slows down the run a touch. I think she also had Covid19 for Challenge Daytona, and I don't know if it was a non event covid19 bout that was asymptomatic or if she got somewhat sick and lost training time.
She was asked about that in an interview. Her answer was that is was harder for her to swim that slow. So I don’t think she’s over swimming at all. She’s also only in her Mid-20s so plenty of time for her endurance to improve. Lastly - where does she finish without the penalty?


Lucy has had issues in the races where she has company on the bike. If I remember in SA 70.3 worlds she was flirting with the draft zone with Daniela, then the penalty in Nice. Again with another rider with her and passing, a penalty. Not saying she cheats - but just near zero experience being anywhere other than off the front of a race. The lack of patience or tactics seem to get her a little.

Without the penalty? Who knows - Jodie looked as in control as Paula in Daytona - like there was more there if needed.

Yes, I am roughly alluding to this. When she is off the front and ITTing it is one thing, when there is company there is a different set of challenges at play. Lucy is also bullshitting that it costs her more energy to swim slower. She has no idea what she is talking about because Lucy would be the only swimmer in history for whom physics have an alternate reality. I "get" the perceived exertion can be lower riding high in the water at speed with high turnover vs sinking going slightly slower planing less, but the trade off is you're simply using less energy to swim slower....after all, water is a viscous medium. While we have no idea if Lucy is over swimming, if you just take her swim splits at Kona and you take her Zwift wattages and you then take men who swim as fast as her in Kona and the wattages that they can put out, you start having a rough answer that the cost of her swim speed is not as low as she may claim (again there are some physics involved with swimming fast). She's not getting to T1 off low kilojoules during the swim and eventually those kilojoules come from one place and they have to be spread out over the bike and run.

Remember in 2019 when Jan saw Patrick Lange in the lead swim group in Kona. When he was interviewed he said something along the lines of, "I was happy to see Patrick in the lead swim group because I knew he would have over swam". As it turned out Patrick did not even get to Hawi due to sickness anyway, but Jan's point is solid. Its also why Lionel's bike at Challenge Daytona was so bad for her 51.3kph world hour recod relative to the field. Lionel should have smoked everyone on the bike in Daytona, but the swim took a bit out of him. Looks like in Miami he worked on swim and swam faster, but his bike was "just steady"....nothing out of the world.
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:


Yes, I am roughly alluding to this. When she is off the front and ITTing it is one thing, when there is company there is a different set of challenges at play. Lucy is also bullshitting that it costs her more energy to swim slower. She has no idea what she is talking about because Lucy would be the only swimmer in history for whom physics have an alternate reality. I "get" the perceived exertion can be lower riding high in the water at speed with high turnover vs sinking going slightly slower planing less, but the trade off is you're simply using less energy to swim slower....after all, water is a viscous medium. While we have no idea if Lucy is over swimming, if you just take her swim splits at Kona and you take her Zwift wattages and you then take men who swim as fast as her in Kona and the wattages that they can put out, you start having a rough answer that the cost of her swim speed is not as low as she may claim (again there are some physics involved with swimming fast). She's not getting to T1 off low kilojoules during the swim and eventually those kilojoules come from one place and they have to be spread out over the bike and run.

Remember in 2019 when Jan saw Patrick Lange in the lead swim group in Kona. When he was interviewed he said something along the lines of, "I was happy to see Patrick in the lead swim group because I knew he would have over swam". As it turned out Patrick did not even get to Hawi due to sickness anyway, but Jan's point is solid. Its also why Lionel's bike at Challenge Daytona was so bad for her 51.3kph world hour recod relative to the field. Lionel should have smoked everyone on the bike in Daytona, but the swim took a bit out of him. Looks like in Miami he worked on swim and swam faster, but his bike was "just steady"....nothing out of the world.


Can't really compare her to a dude here. Inherently a pro male has the automatic ability to crank more watts than a pro female. That's just reality. So you would have to actually normalize both the swim time and the power data to compare her against a male pro.

Is she over-swimming? I don't think we've ever seen her truly go off the front and crush someone. Even at Kona. What she's still missing is the run when you consider the three disciplines, Daniela had the ability to get stung by a jelly fish, come into T1 in like 20th and then bike through the field, come into t2 in like 5th and then run through the field to take one.

Someone else mentioned coaching, basically Reece is learning everything based on how she performs and his knowledge base isn't the same as someone who's been coaching elites for 10-15 years. This is a valid criticism. But hey, she's still one of the most dominant triathletes of the current long course generation.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
Last edited by: TheStroBro: Mar 13, 21 13:51
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [dgutstadt] [ In reply to ]
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dgutstadt wrote:
so this forum rips LS for doing stupid shit (wrong swim suit) and not having a coach. yet when Lucy does rookie mistakes (pass on the left, flip over handlebar) and (to the best of my knowledge) is coached by her mediocre-pro husband, no one says anything. Watching her finish 2nd so many times is heart breaking, she should do everything she can to win

I had this same thought.

Lionel wins nearly every race he enters except for WC fields. In those, he gets beaten by the GOAT or one of the 5-10 guys all worthy of 1st place on any given day. Yet people give him crap and say he isn't top-tier. Are AB and Jan the only two top tier guys...?

Lucy is a mirror image of all the above on the women's side but doesn't seem to get the any of the backhanded commentary.
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:


Yes, I am roughly alluding to this. When she is off the front and ITTing it is one thing, when there is company there is a different set of challenges at play. Lucy is also bullshitting that it costs her more energy to swim slower. She has no idea what she is talking about because Lucy would be the only swimmer in history for whom physics have an alternate reality. I "get" the perceived exertion can be lower riding high in the water at speed with high turnover vs sinking going slightly slower planing less, but the trade off is you're simply using less energy to swim slower....after all, water is a viscous medium. While we have no idea if Lucy is over swimming, if you just take her swim splits at Kona and you take her Zwift wattages and you then take men who swim as fast as her in Kona and the wattages that they can put out, you start having a rough answer that the cost of her swim speed is not as low as she may claim (again there are some physics involved with swimming fast). She's not getting to T1 off low kilojoules during the swim and eventually those kilojoules come from one place and they have to be spread out over the bike and run.

Remember in 2019 when Jan saw Patrick Lange in the lead swim group in Kona. When he was interviewed he said something along the lines of, "I was happy to see Patrick in the lead swim group because I knew he would have over swam". As it turned out Patrick did not even get to Hawi due to sickness anyway, but Jan's point is solid. Its also why Lionel's bike at Challenge Daytona was so bad for her 51.3kph world hour recod relative to the field. Lionel should have smoked everyone on the bike in Daytona, but the swim took a bit out of him. Looks like in Miami he worked on swim and swam faster, but his bike was "just steady"....nothing out of the world.


Can't really compare her to a dude here. Inherently a pro male has the automatic ability to crank more watts than a pro female. That's just reality. So you would have to actually normalize both the swim time and the power data to compare her against a male pro.

Is she over-swimming? I don't think we've ever seen her truly go off the front and crush someone. Even at Kona. What she's still missing is the run when you consider the three disciplines, Daniela had the ability to get stung by a jelly fish, come into T1 in like 20th and then bike through the field, come into t2 in like 5th and then run through the field to take one.

Someone else mentioned coaching, basically Reece is learning everything based on how she performs and his knowledge base isn't the same as someone who's been coaching elites for 10-15 years. This is a valid criticism. But hey, she's still one of the most dominant triathletes of the current long course generation.

Its almost impossible to know exactly the physiological cost at speed for any swimmer given personal hydrodynamic profile and personal propulsion but at the pointy end larger males swim faster than smaller women over every distance because they have more brute watts to put out to overcome their slightly larger drag. So Lucy's probably having to do some extra work there relative to her body size and personal on body calorie storage to swim as fast as second pack men. Could she just sit in the lead women's pack and use a low percent of her normal swim energy, and then have more energy to stalk Daniela for the entire bike and then outrun Daniela? Lucy is smaller than Daniela, so if she comes to T2 all topped up, she could have a natural running advantage. I think Lucy is too gassed to bike with Daniela by the time she comes around on the bike due to all that hammering in the swim-bike.
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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Mark Lemmon wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Not everyone can be like Paula Newby Fraser, Dave Scott, Mark Allen and Tom Brady


Charles-Barclay hasn't raced Kona 8 times yet. It took Allen that long to win. She did get an AG win in her first Kona. :) Yes, Allen was winning nearly every other race before he finally won Kona.

Is there a silent majority that doesn't have strong opinions about Sanders? I'm obviously impressed by his talent and passion. His back story is interesting and inspiring. I'm just not that interested in his social media posts. Of course, fandom is good for pro sports.

Mark, midwesterners unite! Maybe I’d have a stronger opinion if I watched more of his content, but he just doesn’t inspire much reaction either way from me.

Frodo on the other hand is inspirational. One day I’d love to go into a race as the favorite and win it. Perhaps if I were a German, raised in South Africa, married to an Australian, living in Spain I could make that happen.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:


Yes, I am roughly alluding to this. When she is off the front and ITTing it is one thing, when there is company there is a different set of challenges at play. Lucy is also bullshitting that it costs her more energy to swim slower. She has no idea what she is talking about because Lucy would be the only swimmer in history for whom physics have an alternate reality. I "get" the perceived exertion can be lower riding high in the water at speed with high turnover vs sinking going slightly slower planing less, but the trade off is you're simply using less energy to swim slower....after all, water is a viscous medium. While we have no idea if Lucy is over swimming, if you just take her swim splits at Kona and you take her Zwift wattages and you then take men who swim as fast as her in Kona and the wattages that they can put out, you start having a rough answer that the cost of her swim speed is not as low as she may claim (again there are some physics involved with swimming fast). She's not getting to T1 off low kilojoules during the swim and eventually those kilojoules come from one place and they have to be spread out over the bike and run.

Remember in 2019 when Jan saw Patrick Lange in the lead swim group in Kona. When he was interviewed he said something along the lines of, "I was happy to see Patrick in the lead swim group because I knew he would have over swam". As it turned out Patrick did not even get to Hawi due to sickness anyway, but Jan's point is solid. Its also why Lionel's bike at Challenge Daytona was so bad for her 51.3kph world hour recod relative to the field. Lionel should have smoked everyone on the bike in Daytona, but the swim took a bit out of him. Looks like in Miami he worked on swim and swam faster, but his bike was "just steady"....nothing out of the world.


Can't really compare her to a dude here. Inherently a pro male has the automatic ability to crank more watts than a pro female. That's just reality. So you would have to actually normalize both the swim time and the power data to compare her against a male pro.

Is she over-swimming? I don't think we've ever seen her truly go off the front and crush someone. Even at Kona. What she's still missing is the run when you consider the three disciplines, Daniela had the ability to get stung by a jelly fish, come into T1 in like 20th and then bike through the field, come into t2 in like 5th and then run through the field to take one.

Someone else mentioned coaching, basically Reece is learning everything based on how she performs and his knowledge base isn't the same as someone who's been coaching elites for 10-15 years. This is a valid criticism. But hey, she's still one of the most dominant triathletes of the current long course generation.


Its almost impossible to know exactly the physiological cost at speed for any swimmer given personal hydrodynamic profile and personal propulsion but at the pointy end larger males swim faster than smaller women over every distance because they have more brute watts to put out to overcome their slightly larger drag. So Lucy's probably having to do some extra work there relative to her body size and personal on body calorie storage to swim as fast as second pack men. Could she just sit in the lead women's pack and use a low percent of her normal swim energy, and then have more energy to stalk Daniela for the entire bike and then outrun Daniela? Lucy is smaller than Daniela, so if she comes to T2 all topped up, she could have a natural running advantage. I think Lucy is too gassed to bike with Daniela by the time she comes around on the bike due to all that hammering in the swim-bike.

Lucy didn't actually say that it took more energy to swim slower but rather that it was "harder". I'm thinking she means it's harder mentally to hold back when she knows she can leave most of them in her wake if she just puts out a normal effort. Also, I'm not sure the "have more energy for the bike and run" argument is totally valid b/c my understanding is that the vast majority of the energy for fueling any given effort comes from glycogen stored in the muscles themselves, not from the general purpose liver glycogen and not from glucose and other sugars taken by mouth.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I love to give Lionel grief because his triathlon life is one great big entertaining Gong Show but serious prop's to him for what he did this weekend. Very, very impressed with just how tough that motherfucker is and how much he lives and breathes what he does.
.

.
Last edited by: ThailandUltras: Mar 14, 21 0:00
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [piratetri] [ In reply to ]
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piratetri wrote:
We need more Greg Bennett commentating! He is a great interviewer and has excellent perspective

Yes, fully agree! His podcast is great and I was very glad he commented this race.

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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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Don't think Lucy deserved that penalty.

To me it's the USA revenge against UK for how the mistreated Meghan Markle, just saying!
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [FaKaspar] [ In reply to ]
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These Agers are absolutely dominating the middle distance race. My god. 3:46 winner? yikes.

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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Daytona times were also kinda crazy. I got a time that I didn't really think I had any business getting given my fitness at the time. I also had all three legs solidly short, so either my watch was correct and I had a really good day, or the course wasn't quite right.

Also, not sure what the Miami bike course is, but Daytona had us do a few laps on the track. There were some ridiculous bike splits coming out from people skipping a lap and exiting early. Got sorted out eventually, but for a while it looked weird.

Or maybe the fast people showed up.

Sounds like the pro run course was a bit short too?

Darren
https://www.strava.com/athletes/12385497
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:


Yes, I am roughly alluding to this. When she is off the front and ITTing it is one thing, when there is company there is a different set of challenges at play. Lucy is also bullshitting that it costs her more energy to swim slower. She has no idea what she is talking about because Lucy would be the only swimmer in history for whom physics have an alternate reality. I "get" the perceived exertion can be lower riding high in the water at speed with high turnover vs sinking going slightly slower planing less, but the trade off is you're simply using less energy to swim slower....after all, water is a viscous medium. While we have no idea if Lucy is over swimming, if you just take her swim splits at Kona and you take her Zwift wattages and you then take men who swim as fast as her in Kona and the wattages that they can put out, you start having a rough answer that the cost of her swim speed is not as low as she may claim (again there are some physics involved with swimming fast). She's not getting to T1 off low kilojoules during the swim and eventually those kilojoules come from one place and they have to be spread out over the bike and run.

Remember in 2019 when Jan saw Patrick Lange in the lead swim group in Kona. When he was interviewed he said something along the lines of, "I was happy to see Patrick in the lead swim group because I knew he would have over swam". As it turned out Patrick did not even get to Hawi due to sickness anyway, but Jan's point is solid. Its also why Lionel's bike at Challenge Daytona was so bad for her 51.3kph world hour recod relative to the field. Lionel should have smoked everyone on the bike in Daytona, but the swim took a bit out of him. Looks like in Miami he worked on swim and swam faster, but his bike was "just steady"....nothing out of the world.


Can't really compare her to a dude here. Inherently a pro male has the automatic ability to crank more watts than a pro female. That's just reality. So you would have to actually normalize both the swim time and the power data to compare her against a male pro.

Is she over-swimming? I don't think we've ever seen her truly go off the front and crush someone. Even at Kona. What she's still missing is the run when you consider the three disciplines, Daniela had the ability to get stung by a jelly fish, come into T1 in like 20th and then bike through the field, come into t2 in like 5th and then run through the field to take one.

Someone else mentioned coaching, basically Reece is learning everything based on how she performs and his knowledge base isn't the same as someone who's been coaching elites for 10-15 years. This is a valid criticism. But hey, she's still one of the most dominant triathletes of the current long course generation.


Its almost impossible to know exactly the physiological cost at speed for any swimmer given personal hydrodynamic profile and personal propulsion but at the pointy end larger males swim faster than smaller women over every distance because they have more brute watts to put out to overcome their slightly larger drag. So Lucy's probably having to do some extra work there relative to her body size and personal on body calorie storage to swim as fast as second pack men. Could she just sit in the lead women's pack and use a low percent of her normal swim energy, and then have more energy to stalk Daniela for the entire bike and then outrun Daniela? Lucy is smaller than Daniela, so if she comes to T2 all topped up, she could have a natural running advantage. I think Lucy is too gassed to bike with Daniela by the time she comes around on the bike due to all that hammering in the swim-bike.

Lucy didn't actually say that it took more energy to swim slower but rather that it was "harder". I'm thinking she means it's harder mentally to hold back when she knows she can leave most of them in her wake if she just puts out a normal effort. Also, I'm not sure the "have more energy for the bike and run" argument is totally valid b/c my understanding is that the vast majority of the energy for fueling any given effort comes from glycogen stored in the muscles themselves, not from the general purpose liver glycogen and not from glucose and other sugars taken by mouth.

No Erik, this is all wrong. Lucy needs to start swimming right away with Hanson and Sanders so she can practice and learn to feel more comfortable swimming shitty.

This would also have the added benefit of saving muscle glycogen in the upper body, nobody wants an arm bonk on the bike!

Maurice
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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cloy wrote:
These Agers are absolutely dominating the middle distance race. My god. 3:46 winner? yikes.

It does seem like it was super competitive at the front of the pack AGer lvl, but also I'd bet dollars to donuts that the bike course is short.

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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55.3 miles according to the bike file of one of the athletes I coach who raced this morning. Run file was 13.0. The swim was the discipline shorted the most if we're calling this a "70.3". I believe it was the same 1-mile distance that the pros swam, and not 1.2.

_________________________________
Steve Johnson
DARK HORSE TRIATHLON |
Last edited by: darkhorsetri: Mar 14, 21 10:51
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:


Yes, I am roughly alluding to this. When she is off the front and ITTing it is one thing, when there is company there is a different set of challenges at play. Lucy is also bullshitting that it costs her more energy to swim slower. She has no idea what she is talking about because Lucy would be the only swimmer in history for whom physics have an alternate reality. I "get" the perceived exertion can be lower riding high in the water at speed with high turnover vs sinking going slightly slower planing less, but the trade off is you're simply using less energy to swim slower....after all, water is a viscous medium. While we have no idea if Lucy is over swimming, if you just take her swim splits at Kona and you take her Zwift wattages and you then take men who swim as fast as her in Kona and the wattages that they can put out, you start having a rough answer that the cost of her swim speed is not as low as she may claim (again there are some physics involved with swimming fast). She's not getting to T1 off low kilojoules during the swim and eventually those kilojoules come from one place and they have to be spread out over the bike and run.

Remember in 2019 when Jan saw Patrick Lange in the lead swim group in Kona. When he was interviewed he said something along the lines of, "I was happy to see Patrick in the lead swim group because I knew he would have over swam". As it turned out Patrick did not even get to Hawi due to sickness anyway, but Jan's point is solid. Its also why Lionel's bike at Challenge Daytona was so bad for her 51.3kph world hour recod relative to the field. Lionel should have smoked everyone on the bike in Daytona, but the swim took a bit out of him. Looks like in Miami he worked on swim and swam faster, but his bike was "just steady"....nothing out of the world.


Can't really compare her to a dude here. Inherently a pro male has the automatic ability to crank more watts than a pro female. That's just reality. So you would have to actually normalize both the swim time and the power data to compare her against a male pro.

Is she over-swimming? I don't think we've ever seen her truly go off the front and crush someone. Even at Kona. What she's still missing is the run when you consider the three disciplines, Daniela had the ability to get stung by a jelly fish, come into T1 in like 20th and then bike through the field, come into t2 in like 5th and then run through the field to take one.

Someone else mentioned coaching, basically Reece is learning everything based on how she performs and his knowledge base isn't the same as someone who's been coaching elites for 10-15 years. This is a valid criticism. But hey, she's still one of the most dominant triathletes of the current long course generation.


Its almost impossible to know exactly the physiological cost at speed for any swimmer given personal hydrodynamic profile and personal propulsion but at the pointy end larger males swim faster than smaller women over every distance because they have more brute watts to put out to overcome their slightly larger drag. So Lucy's probably having to do some extra work there relative to her body size and personal on body calorie storage to swim as fast as second pack men. Could she just sit in the lead women's pack and use a low percent of her normal swim energy, and then have more energy to stalk Daniela for the entire bike and then outrun Daniela? Lucy is smaller than Daniela, so if she comes to T2 all topped up, she could have a natural running advantage. I think Lucy is too gassed to bike with Daniela by the time she comes around on the bike due to all that hammering in the swim-bike.


Lucy didn't actually say that it took more energy to swim slower but rather that it was "harder". I'm thinking she means it's harder mentally to hold back when she knows she can leave most of them in her wake if she just puts out a normal effort. Also, I'm not sure the "have more energy for the bike and run" argument is totally valid b/c my understanding is that the vast majority of the energy for fueling any given effort comes from glycogen stored in the muscles themselves, not from the general purpose liver glycogen and not from glucose and other sugars taken by mouth.


No Erik, this is all wrong. Lucy needs to start swimming right away with Hanson and Sanders so she can practice and learn to feel more comfortable swimming shitty.
This would also have the added benefit of saving muscle glycogen in the upper body, nobody wants an arm bonk on the bike!
Maurice

Maurice - I'm glad to see that at least one other person agrees with me on this. Lucy and Sara Salas Perez had swim splits of 22:15/16 which are identical to the fastest men's swim splits. Those girls can flat out MOVE in the water. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Challenge Miami Race Day Banter [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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cloy wrote:
These Agers are absolutely dominating the middle distance race. My god. 3:46 winner? yikes.

Course is short. Swim looks to be ~500 yards or more short and the bike about a mile or slightly less. Run looks to be 12.95-13.0 miles. And there was minimal wind on the bike (if any at all). Given all that, it was still a pretty fast field.

I had 2 athletes/friends racing and they mentioned the packs on the bike (2 loops) were ridiculous but there were officials out there. The girl that won got hit with 12 min worth of penalties.

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Last edited by: stevej: Mar 14, 21 12:18
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