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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
MI_Mumps wrote:


Who is going? Questions? What are you excited for?


MKE is one of the best venues/races courses I've seen...and I've raced or watched races on 4 continents and 10-12 countries.

Wish I hadn't tore my calf and ended my racing career. USATAGNC is one of the most competitive races in the US year after year after year after year.

Probably the only race in the last 6-8 years where I showed up and wondered if I'd make the top 10 in my AG. At 70.3's it was always will I be top 3 or top 5. Top 3 at AGNC never crossed my mind.

So competitive, so deep, so fast & so much fun + a wave start so it's head to head racing not rolling
.

I agree Brian. It's an awesome venue, really reasonable costs and the fields are amazing. Even the old farts (my division) had a pretty large number of entries. It's a good test for anyone and so good a venue I wish they'd do like Kona and make it permanent.

Kiwami Racing Team
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [DKMNTRI] [ In reply to ]
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DKMNTRI wrote:
Yeah, I am M35-39 and we went off at 8:53 last year in the oly, and the young guys went off at 7 and shortly after. The humidity, wind, and temps picked up as storms were moving in and made the run miserable. I get that you're competing against your age group and they all start at the same time, but as someone who wants to finish top 10 OA, I hate that two years in a row I'm going to be passing hundreds on the bike and dealing with hotter conditions than those M25-29 and M30-34...I'm 9:05 this year.

100% agree. & the score ratings follow. Someone racing from 7-9 & another from 9-11 might be right next to each other even though the second athlete raced in tougher conditions. I like racing in your AG but it makes sense to me to have some sort of elite start for people trying to finish up front. A lot of local races do it.

With the forecast, folks should be smart on the run. Probably ~10-15s/mile adjustment needed with high-70s & a 70 dew point. Don't treat it like it's 50-60 & dry. Throw away what you think is a good time & just compete.
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
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dcpinsonn wrote:
DKMNTRI wrote:
Yeah, I am M35-39 and we went off at 8:53 last year in the oly, and the young guys went off at 7 and shortly after. The humidity, wind, and temps picked up as storms were moving in and made the run miserable. I get that you're competing against your age group and they all start at the same time, but as someone who wants to finish top 10 OA, I hate that two years in a row I'm going to be passing hundreds on the bike and dealing with hotter conditions than those M25-29 and M30-34...I'm 9:05 this year.

100% agree. & the score ratings follow. Someone racing from 7-9 & another from 9-11 might be right next to each other even though the second athlete raced in tougher conditions. I like racing in your AG but it makes sense to me to have some sort of elite start for people trying to finish up front. A lot of local races do it.

With the forecast, folks should be smart on the run. Probably ~10-15s/mile adjustment needed with high-70s & a 70 dew point. Don't treat it like it's 50-60 & dry. Throw away what you think is a good time & just compete.
Not too sure how you have an elite wave at a national championship that requires qualification to get into (albeit, not too difficult to get into).
And a mass start would be a major cluster.

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [TXAgeGrouper] [ In reply to ]
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TXAgeGrouper wrote:
I was just checking the schedule and M 40-44 is the last AG to go off (9:35AM!)! Anyone know why it's setup this way? That's a killer wait with transition closing at 6:55AM...

I'm in the wave right before you (F 45-49). This is my 3rd AGN and the 2nd time I have started in one of those super late waves. It pretty much sucks. I wish they would split transition in half, close the first half at 6:55, and then close the second one around 8 for the later folks.

I'm basically going to show up last minute, lay my stuff out (I really debated leaving it all in there on Friday when I rack my bike, but decided against that), and then hang out and eat breakfast while I curse at all the youths that get to go in earlier.
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [IronScholar] [ In reply to ]
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I'll see you in the "this sucks, wish I could be going earlier" waiting area I guess. Need to put extra ice in my bottles too I guess now that they'll be slowly baking in the sun for a couple hours.
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [TXAgeGrouper] [ In reply to ]
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Depending on where you are staying, last year I stayed at the Westin which is 5 minute walk and we set up transition went back to the hotel for a couple of hours and returned about 30 minutes before wave start.
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [kornpett] [ In reply to ]
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You are waaay more ambitious than me...

M - 2000yrd OW swim
T - 1 hour trainer ride, 20 min ROTB
W - check bike (10 mins) 20 min OWS
T - travel with 20 min run on landing
F - rest
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [manofthewoods] [ In reply to ]
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Really doesn't seem too difficult to me. Keep qualifying the way it is. Define elite under a certain time threshold (keep it tight) & require proof when you sign up. Doesn't make sense if the National Champion is crowned from an earlier wave if someone finishes super close but started an hour or two later. It happened last year in the sprint. 1 & 2 were separated by a second. Who knows what happens if they start together. Maybe 1 wins by even more. Maybe 2nd, who ran ~2 minutes faster, catches them.
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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I wish we had a really AG competitive race like this in Canada. Here, unfortunately, it seems, as if most AGs do not travel to a race unless it has the IM logo.

Thankfully, we have a ton of local races in Southern Ontario, but a formal competitive AG Nationals would be awesome. We had something back in 2016-2017 but attendance wasn't great.
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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I know it’s early but weather looking pretty bad for Sunday morning

the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
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I 100% agree about the run pace. I was about 2 mins slower than usual but after speaking with other folks in my AG it sounded like most people had a similar experience. Yep, the heat and humidity are pretty sapping.
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [Callin'] [ In reply to ]
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Can’t believe I don’t see more weather freak out posts! I’m trying to keep a positive mindset.

I was very glad for the shady spots while spectating today - hot stuff

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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MI_Mumps wrote:
Can’t believe I don’t see more weather freak out posts! I’m trying to keep a positive mindset.

I was very glad for the shady spots while spectating today - hot stuff

Lots of people burned themselves on the bike and the start of the run. I saw a lot of walking out on course. Volunteers were out in force with ice, though. I think the heat index was 94F when I finished and there is not a leaf of shade on that bike course.
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
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dcpinsonn wrote:
Really doesn't seem too difficult to me. Keep qualifying the way it is. Define elite under a certain time threshold (keep it tight) & require proof when you sign up. Doesn't make sense if the National Champion is crowned from an earlier wave if someone finishes super close but started an hour or two later. It happened last year in the sprint. 1 & 2 were separated by a second. Who knows what happens if they start together. Maybe 1 wins by even more. Maybe 2nd, who ran ~2 minutes faster, catches them.

I agree- it would be cool to see the top athletes compete head to head. Here is a simple idea- have your “AG waves” and add an “overall” wave. Give athletes the discretion to select.

USAT Level II- Ironman U Certified Coach
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [Once-a-miler] [ In reply to ]
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Totally agree. USAT if you are listening, let’s add an “overall” or “elite” wave that goes off first for those who want to race for the top 5 overall or earn their pro license. Only the best of the best athletes can choose to race in that wave.

I feel bad for the M40-44 athletes running two hours later in the blazing heat today. They can’t compete with those who had 15 degree cooler temps in the early waves.
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [piratetri] [ In reply to ]
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I was in that group today. Brutal but lake breeze and thank goodness for the volunteers and plenty of ice made it tolerable.
It was kind of nice that it was relatively empty by then and I got to chase everyone down (mostly out of my AG though did a decent dent with my AG on the run).
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [vkanders] [ In reply to ]
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vkanders wrote:
MI_Mumps wrote:
Can’t believe I don’t see more weather freak out posts! I’m trying to keep a positive mindset.

I was very glad for the shady spots while spectating today - hot stuff

Lots of people burned themselves on the bike and the start of the run. I saw a lot of walking out on course. Volunteers were out in force with ice, though. I think the heat index was 94F when I finished and there is not a leaf of shade on that bike course.

Oh I was definitely one of those people who burned themselves out on the bike . Granted I was in the open wave and spent some quality time sweltering in the wetsuit. Bike was okay until the bridge, was scary as heck coming down the bridge in to the wind. It was definitely getting breezier as the day went on

By the time I got to the run everything was out of whack. Was over on electrolytes and locking up until I had water, loosened up but then took it too far. Stomach couldn’t take anything after that. Somehow finished, went back to hotel, prayed to the porcelain gods, wife debated taking me to hospital…. Fun times!

Despite a terrible race I gotta say they put on a heck of an event. Volunteers were AMAZING! Swim start they had the ice and the water to help everyone. Even pushed us back to the shade so we didn’t keep baking in the sun. Out on the course everyone was great and there was still ice, thank god. They even had the taller racks which is great for tall guys and big bikes. Overall a great race setup and execution from the organizers
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [Once-a-miler] [ In reply to ]
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Once-a-miler wrote:
dcpinsonn wrote:
Really doesn't seem too difficult to me. Keep qualifying the way it is. Define elite under a certain time threshold (keep it tight) & require proof when you sign up. Doesn't make sense if the National Champion is crowned from an earlier wave if someone finishes super close but started an hour or two later. It happened last year in the sprint. 1 & 2 were separated by a second. Who knows what happens if they start together. Maybe 1 wins by even more. Maybe 2nd, who ran ~2 minutes faster, catches them.


I agree- it would be cool to see the top athletes compete head to head. Here is a simple idea- have your “AG waves” and add an “overall” wave. Give athletes the discretion to select.

Yeah I think USAT should think about something like this, but I also think a lot of very good AG athletes want to compete for AG awards. Some people just don't want to turn pro. I did a race earlier in the season as an "elite" and awards went 5 deep. I was just outside and would have won my age group but I knew the deal going in & wanted to compete in the smaller field. I think people wouldn't want to sign up if they were exempt from age group awards. Say you have a field of 20ish and we acknowledge the top-5 then a bunch of AG podium types walk away with nothing. I don't know how to reconcile that but think they should all get the shot to race each other. It's rare to have such deep fields.

I guess I would advocate for an elite start and make the standard something like 2:10ish/2:25ish (top-100 or so) but keep everyone eligible for age group awards. Then if you have someone later in the day who does better they pass someone who competed earlier. I think the current system is fine because you compete age group and start together and get awards based off of that. Slight differences in conditions, & in competition, matter for the very top athletes going for the overall win.

Anyways, was my first year at AG Nats & I gotta say I loved it. Good organization. Good energy. Great competition. The weather ended up being decent today but, with the forecast, I think the Super Sprint was the right call. That bridge and descent into T2 would have been deadly if the weather was as bad as originally projected.
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
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dcpinsonn wrote:
Once-a-miler wrote:
dcpinsonn wrote:
Really doesn't seem too difficult to me. Keep qualifying the way it is. Define elite under a certain time threshold (keep it tight) & require proof when you sign up. Doesn't make sense if the National Champion is crowned from an earlier wave if someone finishes super close but started an hour or two later. It happened last year in the sprint. 1 & 2 were separated by a second. Who knows what happens if they start together. Maybe 1 wins by even more. Maybe 2nd, who ran ~2 minutes faster, catches them.


I agree- it would be cool to see the top athletes compete head to head. Here is a simple idea- have your “AG waves” and add an “overall” wave. Give athletes the discretion to select.


Yeah I think USAT should think about something like this, but I also think a lot of very good AG athletes want to compete for AG awards. Some people just don't want to turn pro. I did a race earlier in the season as an "elite" and awards went 5 deep. I was just outside and would have won my age group but I knew the deal going in & wanted to compete in the smaller field. I think people wouldn't want to sign up if they were exempt from age group awards. Say you have a field of 20ish and we acknowledge the top-5 then a bunch of AG podium types walk away with nothing. I don't know how to reconcile that but think they should all get the shot to race each other. It's rare to have such deep fields.

I guess I would advocate for an elite start and make the standard something like 2:10ish/2:25ish (top-100 or so) but keep everyone eligible for age group awards. Then if you have someone later in the day who does better they pass someone who competed earlier. I think the current system is fine because you compete age group and start together and get awards based off of that. Slight differences in conditions, & in competition, matter for the very top athletes going for the overall win.

Anyways, was my first year at AG Nats & I gotta say I loved it. Good organization. Good energy. Great competition. The weather ended up being decent today but, with the forecast, I think the Super Sprint was the right call. That bridge and descent into T2 would have been deadly if the weather was as bad as originally projected.

I don't know the solution, but if there were an elite wave at 7am, I would have signed up for it. I went off at 9:05 with the M35-39 and competed strongly in the conditions for a 2nd place finish. But, I was 29th overall. I went 2:02:50 versus a 1:58:29 last year (With another late start but weather conditions didn't deteriorate quite so badly). I see so many of the 7-7:30AM start people who beat me and wouldn't be close if they started with me. I was 9th overall bike split and passed 500 ppl? If I went at 7am i'd have my average swim, pass 15-20 total people on the bike, and be running in temps that were 10* cooler. It's fun getting the age group podium, but I hate losing too much to really enjoy it all when I look at the overall results. I wanted to be top 10-12, but that was impossible given the wind and temps by the time I went off. I'm whining now, but I think I've decided I'm not returning based on this whole issue. An elite wave would totally change that. I honestly wouldn't even care about an AG award and I'm def not close to going pro.

Blog: https://davidkoppeltriathlon.blogspot.com/
Coaching: https://dkendurance.com/
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [DKMNTRI] [ In reply to ]
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How is everyone viewing results? The 2022 link has all 2019 info - https://www.teamusa.org/...hampionships/results


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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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download the USAT app. It's just like the IM app in the way it operates.

Blog: https://davidkoppeltriathlon.blogspot.com/
Coaching: https://dkendurance.com/
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [DKMNTRI] [ In reply to ]
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DKMNTRI wrote:
download the USAT app. It's just like the IM app in the way it operates.

IDK what was going on with the app this weekend, but it was terrible. My husband said so many people he talked to said they missed seeing their athletes because the tracker was so off. I came in about 10 minutes ahead of my predicted time and my coach almost missed me.

I did the open sprint wave on Sunday, and the tracker currently says that that wave is still waiting to start. But for some reason, I show up in the championship category of my AG, which I shouldn't be.

Download it, but it's got issues. I wish they'd put them up on the website.
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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https://track.rtrt.me/e/USAT-AGE_GROUP-2022#/leaderboard/olympic
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [IronScholar] [ In reply to ]
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IronScholar wrote:
DKMNTRI wrote:
download the USAT app. It's just like the IM app in the way it operates.


IDK what was going on with the app this weekend, but it was terrible. My husband said so many people he talked to said they missed seeing their athletes because the tracker was so off. I came in about 10 minutes ahead of my predicted time and my coach almost missed me.

I did the open sprint wave on Sunday, and the tracker currently says that that wave is still waiting to start. But for some reason, I show up in the championship category of my AG, which I shouldn't be.

Download it, but it's got issues. I wish they'd put them up on the website.

So if you are talking about run finish on Saturday, the tracker had a problem. The first split reader on the run (1.2 miles) was way short of 1.2 miles (somewhere around 1.0 miles). I am guessing that happened because of a rookie mistake -- they wanted a time at 1.2, but that was on the back portion of the first out and back -- so the split got triggered when we were on our way out to the point (and then when we crossed the reader the second time on the way back it was ignored because we had already triggered the split). Check out your first split -- I think everyone's was way faster than reality.

So once you have too fast of a time for the first split, you get way too slow of a time (and therefore pace for the second split) assuming that the second split was the proper distance. Then the predicted finish time (based on the second split pace) will be way off.

I think USAT does a great job with its races (e.g., AGN and Multisport Festival), but this is one area where it struggles. I wish it would hire the required expertise either in house or a timing subcontractor.

On the other hand, I have a little more sympathy for the tracker on Sunday. They made the change to Super Sprint at the last minute and it would be a lot harder to accommodate the change (e.g., repositioning split readers, reprogramming the computer, etc.). Yeah, maybe there could have been a contingency plan for this, but . . .
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Re: 2022 Age Group Nationals - Milwaukee [hugoagogo] [ In reply to ]
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hugoagogo wrote:
IronScholar wrote:
DKMNTRI wrote:
download the USAT app. It's just like the IM app in the way it operates.


IDK what was going on with the app this weekend, but it was terrible. My husband said so many people he talked to said they missed seeing their athletes because the tracker was so off. I came in about 10 minutes ahead of my predicted time and my coach almost missed me.

I did the open sprint wave on Sunday, and the tracker currently says that that wave is still waiting to start. But for some reason, I show up in the championship category of my AG, which I shouldn't be.

Download it, but it's got issues. I wish they'd put them up on the website.


So if you are talking about run finish on Saturday, the tracker had a problem. The first split reader on the run (1.2 miles) was way short of 1.2 miles (somewhere around 1.0 miles). I am guessing that happened because of a rookie mistake -- they wanted a time at 1.2, but that was on the back portion of the first out and back -- so the split got triggered when we were on our way out to the point (and then when we crossed the reader the second time on the way back it was ignored because we had already triggered the split). Check out your first split -- I think everyone's was way faster than reality.

So once you have too fast of a time for the first split, you get way too slow of a time (and therefore pace for the second split) assuming that the second split was the proper distance. Then the predicted finish time (based on the second split pace) will be way off.

I think USAT does a great job with its races (e.g., AGN and Multisport Festival), but this is one area where it struggles. I wish it would hire the required expertise either in house or a timing subcontractor.

On the other hand, I have a little more sympathy for the tracker on Sunday. They made the change to Super Sprint at the last minute and it would be a lot harder to accommodate the change (e.g., repositioning split readers, reprogramming the computer, etc.). Yeah, maybe there could have been a contingency plan for this, but . . .

There was a second run split check though, which should have leveled things out a bit more, right? Based on my second run split, the predictor was still off a fair bit. It wasn't just the run though. My husband was at bike in talking to people, and that's where he heard most of the conversation about missing athletes.

Sunday...sure, changing everything could have thrown a wrench in it with tracking. One of my teammates was in male 40-44, and I think he was out on the bike before the tracker registered he even started. But it's currently 4:26pm on Monday and in the app, the female open sprint 40-59 wave is still showing "This race has not started yet." Um, it not only started, it's over. The data should be there.
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