i'm with you as well. the way bush made it sound prior to the war you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a wmd. that hasn't been the case as of yet.

to be perfectly frank, at this point, i hope they find a big stock pile of wmd's. it would restore some of my faith in the leadership. while i disagree with the majority of bush's policies, prior to iraq i felt, at least, that bush, et al were honest. right now, i feel like he, cheney, rumsfeld, etc. might be perpetrating one gigantic lie on the american public. i don't want to be that cynical at such an early age. if some wmd's are found, i could at least go back to just disagreeing with the policies, rather than not trusting/believing bush AND disagreeing at the same time.

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f/k/a mclamb6

lol. Swinging a dead cat. I'm having visions of a Monty Python movie.

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I agree.

If it weren't for your service record, people on this board would probably call you unpatriotic and ignorant (and/or many other adjectives) for not believing what you hear in the news.

"Don't believe the hype" - Public Enemy

"If it weren't for your service record.......would probably call you unpatriotic "

Isn't that what they're also trying to say about Kerry.

These are signs that not all is corrupt. It would have been easy to plant a load anywhere and say, see looky what we found. This actually encourages me, course maybe your right and every canister they found said--made in Georgia;-) and where quickly sold to Iran--JKiddin.

As a side note, I served in the Cold War and was much more afraid of Russias vast chemical arsenal. Blister and blood agents and nerve agents so potent, they were off the scale. Our equipment and training was so lousey that one could only conclude that nukes were our first weapon of choice. Nukes seem to be posturing device as gas for ages seems to have gone under the radar and can really be more destructive. Can you imagine being in your last chem suit with the enemy waiting the 4 hours for the blood agent to penetrate your suit or a little air molecule of blister agent, accidently landing on some exposed skin that will in the next few weeks cover your body in a big blister that will kill you. I used to piss of the training teams as when they'd yell "gas" I'd run to the fake source and breath deep to get it over with. Have to be there to get the humor, but in the event of an atomic explosion you were to fall on your weapon to protect it. So what's more absurd? Sorry for the ramble.

Isn't that what they're also trying to say about Kerry.


Yeah, poor, poor Kerry. Maybe if he had just enough backbone to actually say something- ANYTHING- of substance, he'd be taken a little more seriously.

Kerry's a caricature of a gutless politician.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

The most accurate characteristic of Kerry is opportunistic in my opinion.

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Tom Demerly
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arent all politicians opportunistic? When was the last one who had a mission, a noble cause? FDR? Wilson?

Dean was the best Dem candidate, followed closely by Clark (except Clark wasn't polished enough to win).. I think the outcome would have been different if the primaries / caucuses were all held on the same day, rather than spread out over several weeks. At some point it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, in that everyone votes for the person already winning the votes.

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arent all politicians opportunistic?

More and more. The thing about Kerry is that it political opportunism seems to be his ONLY trait. He appears totally and completely devoid of any beliefs of his own, except that he wants to be elected.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

How much Sarin does it take to kill thousands of innocent people? A few cupfuls...How many do you want them to find to "make it worth our while?" How many nukes does it take to kill thousands of innocent people? Only one.

Is the threat not enough to make it worth our while. Was 9/11 not "good enough" to make you realize that we can't just sit back and allow ruthless dictators have their way with the world and thumb their nose at the UN?

You guys crack me up. Iraq is a country roughly the size of California. Iraq mass-produced chemical weapons for use durings its war with Iran, 1980-1988. Sarin and mustard gas were the leading chemicals they manufactured. Early Iraqi Sarin had a very short shelf life, maybe only a few weeks. Later, they developed a "binary" weapon which had the ingredients in separate containers such that they would mix and react when the shell was fired. These came about late in the Iran-Iraq war, late 1980's or so.

Now, knowing that Iraq mass-produced chemical weapons, and that Iraq is a fairly large place, don't you think it's likely that a few shells could have gone missing? I do. Are Iraqis known for their immaculate inventory control skills? I fully suspect that there is a long-forgotten ammo dump SOMEWHERE where some of this stuff was forgotten, misplaced, or missed by inspectors. To assume otherwise would be idiotic. The fact that they haven't found it yet amazes me.

Insurgents have been pirating shells out of abandoned weapons dumps and using them to make bombs. Clearly, this shell was in amongst others and was used, possibly without anyone even knowing what it was.

There is no "conspiracy" here. Someone found a chemical shell in a large country that mass produced chemical weapons for the better part of a decade. Big deal. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

Yup, they found one and I hope we find a hell of a lot more. (The sentiment is a bit disturbing.) The trouble is that we should be suprised if we don't find them, not if we do. We've known all along that Saddam had a history of possessing and using chemical weapons. I certainly hope this this is not the extent of our find and of one of the purported key justifications for going to war.

Tibbs, you are dead on about the haters continuing to hate. When it comes to Bush I'm afraid the lines have been drawn and there are very very few people left on the fence.

"very few people left on the fence."

To be honest, I'm not a huge Kerry fan but do like him one heck of a lot more than Bush.

Personally, I'd love to see Nader get elected. Unfortunately it just won't happen and a vote for Ralph is a vote for GWB.

"I'm not a huge Kerry fan but do like him one heck of a lot more than Bush. "

That is why Bush will win. The only thing Kerry is saying is "Hey I'm not Bush!" Kerry is the Democrat's choice not because the Democrats like him it's because Dean got excited and yelled so they all paniced and went with Kerry. The Democrat even Democrats don't like.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Kerry also doesn't understand the difference between offshoring jobs and corporate inversions, or that the US is the only country in the world that wants to tax corporations on ther worldwide income, (absent a treaty)

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Dude, I'm not sure if you're lib or conservative....maybe it does not matter. However, I would like to compliment you on your well thought out and written 'liberal' sounding damage control.

The libs are going to need a lot of damage control real soon. Like I have said in many of my posts; there are WMD's, and they will be found at the most innoportune time.

There is a goldmine of stories, opinions etc etc about how "there are no WMD's" Well, there are WMD and this is just the beginning.

Time to pay attention to how many shit talking liberal politicians start touting there own 'support for the war'

If you can show me when or where anyone who opposed the war said that finding WMD is "bound to happen" I would love to see it.

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Do we really need to label people?

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One left over shell from the Iraq/Iran war does not an arsenal make. There's probably a few more of them out there but I'll believe the stockpile theory when we see it.

The irony is that people who fired it likely did't realize what it was until the news reported it.

"How much Sarin does it take to kill thousands of innocent people? A few cupfuls...How many do you want them to find to "make it worth our while?" How many nukes does it take to kill thousands of innocent people? Only one.

Is the threat not enough to make it worth our while. Was 9/11 not "good enough" to make you realize that we can't just sit back and allow ruthless dictators have their way with the world and thumb their nose at the UN? "

1. The administration made it sound pre-war like there was alot of the stuff waiting around to be used on Americans and other people.

2. If the one artillery shell is enough to cause that much concern then why are we spending so much time and resources in Iraq to deal with it? The stuff probably exists in several more countries if not many more countries in that quantity. More likely it exists in the hands of terriost organizations that don't need to make a pit stop in Iraq before bringing it to our homes.

3. 9/11 was good enough to do alot of things. I'm not sure where ruthless dictators came into it atleast not for me... We've had those since the beginning of civilaztion I don't know if we've had organizations like Al Qaeda as long and that's where my concern is.

Yes

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

OK.

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I said it, and I'll say it again: in a country the size of Iraq, which mass produced chemical weapons for at least 10 years (1980-1990), there is an almost 100% probability that at least a few shells, rockets, or other WMD's have gone un-accounted for over the last 15 years, and that eventually, those shells will turn up.

Hell, they're still finding un-exploded ordinance in Europe 60 years after WWII ended.

Now, whether you think that is a reason to go to war over or not is your perogative.

Mojo, I have to say that I really don't understand your need to label people- I would think you'd be able to hold up your end of the debate on its own merits.

However, if you insist on applying labels, you might want to come up with more than the two you seem limited to- "liberal" and "conservative." And you might want to be a little more careful in the application of those labels. You have a tendency to label anyone who disagrees with you "liberal," as if that effectively negates their argument. It doesn't, and it's intellectually lazy.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

You are right. However, when you consider how emboldened the left has become over this issue because "there are no WMD" It's a pretty excellent find.

If one shell could have been left over and not declared, maybe another shell could have made it into the hands of some rather unsavory characters, right?

I'm no expert on Chem/Bio weapons, but I have heard that even very small amounts of that stuff is some pretty nasty shit.

It might not take an arsenal.

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**