I totally agree.
Who says learning isn't fun? I know I enjoyed teaching you all something.
Who says learning isn't fun? I know I enjoyed teaching you all something.
Triathlon Forum
Login required to started new threads
Login required to post replies
Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Pooks]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Brian286]
[ In reply to ]
what are you teaching again? remember, i am obtuse...
f/k/a mclamb6
f/k/a mclamb6
Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [mclamb6]
[ In reply to ]
They have special education classes for people like yourself.
Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Record10ti]
[ In reply to ]
Here's a link to the UNSCOM Report on Iraq's NBC program status as of January 1999:
http://www.fas.org/.../s/990125/index.html
Some interesting discoveries:
1. Iraq never declared ANY 155 shells filled with Sarin, although some have now apparently been found.
(Unfilled) 8,122 1) 7,627 aerial bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM. They were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision during 1991 and 1993.
2) About 500 aerial bombs have not been found. According to Iraq, 500 aerial bombs were delivered damaged by a foreign supplier. 500 gauge aerial bombs (mustard) 1,426 1) 980 aerial bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM. They were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision in 1992-1993.
2) Remnants of several hundred destroyed aerial bombs from 438 bombs declared by Iraq as destroyed in a fire accident in 1988, were seen by UNSCOM. 500 gauge aerial bombs (unfilled) 422 1) 331 aerial bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM and destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision.
2) Some 100 aerial bombs have not been found. According to Iraq, 100 aerial bombs were delivered damaged by a supplier. R-400 aerial bombs
(binary components of sarin) 337 1) 337 aerial bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM. 336 bombs were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision in 1992.
2) One bomb was removed for analysis outside Iraq by UNSCOM.
3) Evidence of a few R-400 bombs produced by Iraq for BW purposes has been found among 337 CW bombs declared by Iraq. R-400 aerial bombs (unfilled) 58 58 aerial bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM and destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision. DB-2 aerial bombs (unfilled) 1,203 1,203 aerial bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM. They were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision during 1992 and 1993. 122-mm rockets
(sarin) 6,610 6,454 rockets were accounted for by UNSCOM. They were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision during 1992 and 1993. 122-mm rockets
(unfilled) 6,880 7,305 rockets were accounted for by UNSCOM and destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision. 155-mm artillery shells (mustard) 13,000 12,792 shells were accounted for by UNSCOM. They were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision in the period 1992-1994. 155-mm artillery shells (unfilled) 16,950 1) 1,700 shells were accounted for by UNSCOM and destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision.
2) In 1998, Iraq presented documents on the conversion of 15,616 shells to conventional munitions. Of these, 1,779 converted shells were accounted for by UNSCOM. Special missile warheads (sarin/binary components of sarin) 30 1) All 30 warheads were accounted for by UNSCOM.
2) Of those, 29 warheads were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision during 1992 and 1993, and
3) One warhead was removed for analysis outside Iraq by UNSCOM. Sub total of munitions remaining after the 1991 Gulf war 56,281
(CS) 116 1) No remnants of destroyed bombs have been found.
2) In 1995, documentary evidence was provided by Iraq that 116 bombs filled with CS had been stored at a facility destroyed during the Gulf war. R-400 aerial bombs
(binary components of sarin) 160 1) In 1992, remnants of bombs consistent with the declared quantity of bombs were seen by UNSCOM.
2) The circumstances of destruction have not been fully clarified. DB-2 aerial bomb
(sarin) 12 1) In 1991, remnants of up to 50 bombs were seen by UNSCOM.
2) In 1996, documentary evidence was found by UNSCOM that DB-2 bombs had also been filled with mustard (which was not declared). In 1997, Iraq stated that only a few bombs were filled with mustard for trials. 122-mm rockets
(sarin) 4,660 1) In 1991, two locations were seen by UNSCOM where rockets had been destroyed. Evidence of many destroyed rockets was found.
2) In the period 1991-1998, remnants of about 4,000 rockets were recovered and accounted for by UNSCOM. 122-mm rockets
(unfilled) 36,500 1) Completely destroyed hangers where rockets had been destroyed were seen by UNSCOM. Evidence of many destroyed rockets was found. Accounting for the remnants was not possible due to the extent of the destruction.
2) In 1995, documentary evidence was provided by Iraq that 36,500 rockets had been stored at a facility destroyed during the Gulf war. 155-mm artillery shells (mustard) 550 1) No evidence has been found of 550 shells declared by Iraq as having been lost shortly after the Gulf war.
2) In July 1998, Iraq provided a progress report on its ongoing internal investigation. Sub total of munitions destroyed during the 1991 Gulf war 1 41,998
(CS) 125 Remnants of bombs consistent with the declared quantity were seen by UNSCOM. 250 gauge aerial bombs (unfilled) 2,000 1) Remnants of 1,400 destroyed bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM.
2) UNSCOM was presented with ingots declared to be from the melting of 600 bombs. The material presented could not be assessed as adequate for proper verification. R-400 aerial bombs
(binary components of sarin) 527 1) Remnants of bombs consistent with the declared quantity were seen by UNSCOM.
2) Iraq presented supporting documents on the destruction of 527 bombs . R-400 aerial bombs (biological warfare agents) 157 1) In the period 1992-1998, remnants of up to 60 bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM.
2) Supporting documents on the destruction were presented by Iraq (without reference to the type of agents filled into them). R-400 aerial bombs (unfilled) 308 1) No evidence was presented of 117 bombs declared by Iraq as having been melted.
2) No evidence was presented of 191 melted bombs declared as defective. 122-mm rockets
(unfilled) 26,500 1) Remnants of 11,500 rockets destroyed through demolition were seen by UNSCOM. Accounting was not possible due to the state of destruction.
2) UNSCOM was presented with ingots declared to be from the melting of 15,000 rockets. The material presented could not be assessed as adequate for proper verification. Special missile warheads (binary components of sarin / biological warfare agents) 45 1) In the period from 1992 to 1998, remnants of 43-45 special warheads were recovered and accounted for by UNSCOM.
2) In the period from 1997 to 1998, remnants of 3 additional warheads declared as special training warheads were recovered.
3) In 1998, degradation products of CW agent VX were found on some of the remnants of special warheads.
4) Supporting documents were provided by Iraq on the overall accounting for special warheads and on the unilateral destruction of 45 warheads. Sub total of munitions destroyed unilaterally 29,662
1 - 20,000 motor bombs filled with the riot control agent CS, which were destroyed during the Gulf war at one of the storage facilities, are not included in the table.
2 - Components of special munitions, including boosters and fuzes, are not included in the table.
The majority of these components were not presented by Iraq for verification. According to
Iraq, single-use components were destroyed unilaterally and dual-use components were used
for conventional purposes. UNSCOM was able to verify their disposition partially.
* - The following unfilled munitions were produced indigenously by Iraq:
250 and 500 gauge aerial bombs, R-400 aerial bombs, DB-2 aerial bombs, warheads for 122-mm rockets, missile warheads.
The following empty munitions were procured by Iraq:
250 and 500 gauge aerial bombs, 155-mm shells and 122-mm rockets.
2. The UNSCOM noted, but wrote off as "minor counting discrepancies" several hundreds of CW that were unaccounted for.
"The numerical discrepancy of several hundred munitions in the overall accounting can be attributed to minor deviations in the physical counting of large piles of weapons."
3. The UNSCOM acknowledged that Iraqi claims that large quantities of CW were destroyed during the '91 war, were unverifiable.
"b) 41,998 munitions [5,498 filled munitions and 36,500 unfilled munitions] declared by Iraq as having been destroyed during the 1991 Gulf war:
c) 29,662 munitions [854 filled munitions and 28,808 unfilled munitions] declared by Iraq as having been destroyed unilaterally:
4. The UNSCOM acknowledged that they had little faith in many of Iraq's assertions that their weapons were destroyed "unilaterally."
"46. It should be recalled, that a significant number of chemical weapons, their components, related equipment and materials were identified and destroyed under the Commission's supervision in the period from 1991 to 1997. This included over 38,000 filled and unfilled chemical munitions, 690 tonnes of chemical warfare agents (including 411 tonnes of bulk agents), more than 3,000 tonnes of precursor chemicals and about 600 pieces of production equipment.
47. In its accounting for various weapons-related elements of Iraq's CW programme, the Commission has achieved various levels of confidence, depending on the availability of evidence found in the course of the Commission's inspection activities, provided by Iraq or by its former suppliers.
48. The Commission has a high degree of confidence in its accounting for proscribed items which were physically presented by Iraq for verification and disposal. This includes the accounting for: 56,000 special munitions, 411 tonnes of bulk agents, 2,810 tonnes of key precursor and 553 pieces of production equipment.
49. The Commission has a certain degree of confidence in the accounting for proscribed items declared by Iraq as having been destroyed during the 1991 Gulf war. The Commission has accepted through its verification the destruction of 34,000 special munitions and 823 tonnes of key precursors. Outstanding issues remain. These include the accounting for 2,000 unfilled and 550 filled special munitions.
50. The Commission has a lesser degree of confidence in accounting for proscribed items declared by Iraq as having been destroyed unilaterally. These include 15,900 unfilled and 100 filled special munitions, the CW agent VX and 50 tonnes of a precursor for the production of VX. Nevertheless, the Commission has accepted through its verification the destruction of 13,660 special munitions and about 200 tonnes of key precursors. However, residual questions remain with respect to proscribed items destroyed unilaterally. The presentation by foreign suppliers of information on the delivery of munitions and precursors requested by UNSCOM could be helpful in the verification of this area."
5. Th UNSCOM detailed numerous examples of Iraqi interference with their inspection efforts including confiscation of documents that appeared to provide evidence of ongoing nuclear and CW programs AFTER the '91 war.
2. Immediately following the Gulf war, the Iraqi Presidency collected reports on weapons remaining with Iraq's Armed Forces after the war, including its weapons prohibited by recently adopted resolution 687(1991). Such documents were provided to the Presidency in the spring of 1991. A decision was taken by a high-level committee (one of whose members was Deputy Prime Minister Mr. Tariq Aziz) to provide to the Commission only a portion of its proscribed weapons, their components and production capabilities and stocks. The policy, as deduced from a range of evidence available to the Commission including the initial false Iraq's declarations, was based on the following Iraqi actions:
-- provide a portion of their extant weapon stocks, with an emphasis on those, which were least modern.
-- retain production capability and the "know-how" documentation necessary to revive programmes when possible
-- conceal the full extent of chemical weapons programmes, including its VX project, and retain production equipment and raw materials
-- conceal the number and type of BW and CW warheads for proscribed missiles
-- conceal indigenous long-range missile production, and retain production capabilities, specifically with respect to guidance systems and missile engines
-- conceal the very existence of its offensive biological weapons programme and retain all production capabilities"
and
"The Commission has concluded that a segregation of documents must have taken place prior to delivery to the Commission. It has sought from Iraq further explanations of what happened to the documents and where they are located. This has never been provided."
http://www.fas.org/.../s/990125/index.html
Some interesting discoveries:
1. Iraq never declared ANY 155 shells filled with Sarin, although some have now apparently been found.
Iraq's Declarations
Accounting Status
Munition Type ( fill)* Quantity1. Munitions declared by Iraq as remaining
After the 1991 Gulf war
250 gauge aerial bombs (mustard) 1,243 1,233 aerial bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM. They were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision during 1992 and 1993. 250 gauge aerial bombs(Unfilled) 8,122 1) 7,627 aerial bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM. They were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision during 1991 and 1993.
2) About 500 aerial bombs have not been found. According to Iraq, 500 aerial bombs were delivered damaged by a foreign supplier. 500 gauge aerial bombs (mustard) 1,426 1) 980 aerial bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM. They were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision in 1992-1993.
2) Remnants of several hundred destroyed aerial bombs from 438 bombs declared by Iraq as destroyed in a fire accident in 1988, were seen by UNSCOM. 500 gauge aerial bombs (unfilled) 422 1) 331 aerial bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM and destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision.
2) Some 100 aerial bombs have not been found. According to Iraq, 100 aerial bombs were delivered damaged by a supplier. R-400 aerial bombs
(binary components of sarin) 337 1) 337 aerial bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM. 336 bombs were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision in 1992.
2) One bomb was removed for analysis outside Iraq by UNSCOM.
3) Evidence of a few R-400 bombs produced by Iraq for BW purposes has been found among 337 CW bombs declared by Iraq. R-400 aerial bombs (unfilled) 58 58 aerial bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM and destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision. DB-2 aerial bombs (unfilled) 1,203 1,203 aerial bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM. They were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision during 1992 and 1993. 122-mm rockets
(sarin) 6,610 6,454 rockets were accounted for by UNSCOM. They were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision during 1992 and 1993. 122-mm rockets
(unfilled) 6,880 7,305 rockets were accounted for by UNSCOM and destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision. 155-mm artillery shells (mustard) 13,000 12,792 shells were accounted for by UNSCOM. They were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision in the period 1992-1994. 155-mm artillery shells (unfilled) 16,950 1) 1,700 shells were accounted for by UNSCOM and destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision.
2) In 1998, Iraq presented documents on the conversion of 15,616 shells to conventional munitions. Of these, 1,779 converted shells were accounted for by UNSCOM. Special missile warheads (sarin/binary components of sarin) 30 1) All 30 warheads were accounted for by UNSCOM.
2) Of those, 29 warheads were destroyed by Iraq under UNSCOM supervision during 1992 and 1993, and
3) One warhead was removed for analysis outside Iraq by UNSCOM. Sub total of munitions remaining after the 1991 Gulf war 56,281
2. Munitions declared by Iraq as
destroyed during the 1991 Gulf war
500 gauge aerial bombs(CS) 116 1) No remnants of destroyed bombs have been found.
2) In 1995, documentary evidence was provided by Iraq that 116 bombs filled with CS had been stored at a facility destroyed during the Gulf war. R-400 aerial bombs
(binary components of sarin) 160 1) In 1992, remnants of bombs consistent with the declared quantity of bombs were seen by UNSCOM.
2) The circumstances of destruction have not been fully clarified. DB-2 aerial bomb
(sarin) 12 1) In 1991, remnants of up to 50 bombs were seen by UNSCOM.
2) In 1996, documentary evidence was found by UNSCOM that DB-2 bombs had also been filled with mustard (which was not declared). In 1997, Iraq stated that only a few bombs were filled with mustard for trials. 122-mm rockets
(sarin) 4,660 1) In 1991, two locations were seen by UNSCOM where rockets had been destroyed. Evidence of many destroyed rockets was found.
2) In the period 1991-1998, remnants of about 4,000 rockets were recovered and accounted for by UNSCOM. 122-mm rockets
(unfilled) 36,500 1) Completely destroyed hangers where rockets had been destroyed were seen by UNSCOM. Evidence of many destroyed rockets was found. Accounting for the remnants was not possible due to the extent of the destruction.
2) In 1995, documentary evidence was provided by Iraq that 36,500 rockets had been stored at a facility destroyed during the Gulf war. 155-mm artillery shells (mustard) 550 1) No evidence has been found of 550 shells declared by Iraq as having been lost shortly after the Gulf war.
2) In July 1998, Iraq provided a progress report on its ongoing internal investigation. Sub total of munitions destroyed during the 1991 Gulf war 1 41,998
3. Munitions declared by Iraq as
destroyed unilaterally
250 gauge aerial bombs(CS) 125 Remnants of bombs consistent with the declared quantity were seen by UNSCOM. 250 gauge aerial bombs (unfilled) 2,000 1) Remnants of 1,400 destroyed bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM.
2) UNSCOM was presented with ingots declared to be from the melting of 600 bombs. The material presented could not be assessed as adequate for proper verification. R-400 aerial bombs
(binary components of sarin) 527 1) Remnants of bombs consistent with the declared quantity were seen by UNSCOM.
2) Iraq presented supporting documents on the destruction of 527 bombs . R-400 aerial bombs (biological warfare agents) 157 1) In the period 1992-1998, remnants of up to 60 bombs were accounted for by UNSCOM.
2) Supporting documents on the destruction were presented by Iraq (without reference to the type of agents filled into them). R-400 aerial bombs (unfilled) 308 1) No evidence was presented of 117 bombs declared by Iraq as having been melted.
2) No evidence was presented of 191 melted bombs declared as defective. 122-mm rockets
(unfilled) 26,500 1) Remnants of 11,500 rockets destroyed through demolition were seen by UNSCOM. Accounting was not possible due to the state of destruction.
2) UNSCOM was presented with ingots declared to be from the melting of 15,000 rockets. The material presented could not be assessed as adequate for proper verification. Special missile warheads (binary components of sarin / biological warfare agents) 45 1) In the period from 1992 to 1998, remnants of 43-45 special warheads were recovered and accounted for by UNSCOM.
2) In the period from 1997 to 1998, remnants of 3 additional warheads declared as special training warheads were recovered.
3) In 1998, degradation products of CW agent VX were found on some of the remnants of special warheads.
4) Supporting documents were provided by Iraq on the overall accounting for special warheads and on the unilateral destruction of 45 warheads. Sub total of munitions destroyed unilaterally 29,662
1 - 20,000 motor bombs filled with the riot control agent CS, which were destroyed during the Gulf war at one of the storage facilities, are not included in the table.
2 - Components of special munitions, including boosters and fuzes, are not included in the table.
The majority of these components were not presented by Iraq for verification. According to
Iraq, single-use components were destroyed unilaterally and dual-use components were used
for conventional purposes. UNSCOM was able to verify their disposition partially.
* - The following unfilled munitions were produced indigenously by Iraq:
250 and 500 gauge aerial bombs, R-400 aerial bombs, DB-2 aerial bombs, warheads for 122-mm rockets, missile warheads.
The following empty munitions were procured by Iraq:
250 and 500 gauge aerial bombs, 155-mm shells and 122-mm rockets.
2. The UNSCOM noted, but wrote off as "minor counting discrepancies" several hundreds of CW that were unaccounted for.
"The numerical discrepancy of several hundred munitions in the overall accounting can be attributed to minor deviations in the physical counting of large piles of weapons."
3. The UNSCOM acknowledged that Iraqi claims that large quantities of CW were destroyed during the '91 war, were unverifiable.
"b) 41,998 munitions [5,498 filled munitions and 36,500 unfilled munitions] declared by Iraq as having been destroyed during the 1991 Gulf war:
- The Commission has accepted the destruction of about 34,000 munitions on the basis of multiple sources, including physical evidence, documents provided by Iraq etc. However, it has not been possible to achieve a numerical accounting of destroyed munitions due to heavy bomb damage of the CW storage facilities, where these munitions had been stored during the Gulf war,
- the destruction of about 2,000 unfilled munitions remain uncertain,
- 550 filled munitions remain unaccounted for.
c) 29,662 munitions [854 filled munitions and 28,808 unfilled munitions] declared by Iraq as having been destroyed unilaterally:
- the destruction of about 13,660 munitions, both filled and unfilled, has been accepted by the Commission on the basis of multiple sources, including physical evidence, documents provided by Iraq etc. However, it has not been possible to make a numerical accounting of these munitions due to destruction method used by Iraq (demolition),
- the accounting for 15,900 unfilled munitions which, according to Iraq, had been melted, has not been possible,
- about 100 munitions filled, according to Iraq, with BW agents remain unaccounted for. "
4. The UNSCOM acknowledged that they had little faith in many of Iraq's assertions that their weapons were destroyed "unilaterally."
"46. It should be recalled, that a significant number of chemical weapons, their components, related equipment and materials were identified and destroyed under the Commission's supervision in the period from 1991 to 1997. This included over 38,000 filled and unfilled chemical munitions, 690 tonnes of chemical warfare agents (including 411 tonnes of bulk agents), more than 3,000 tonnes of precursor chemicals and about 600 pieces of production equipment.
47. In its accounting for various weapons-related elements of Iraq's CW programme, the Commission has achieved various levels of confidence, depending on the availability of evidence found in the course of the Commission's inspection activities, provided by Iraq or by its former suppliers.
48. The Commission has a high degree of confidence in its accounting for proscribed items which were physically presented by Iraq for verification and disposal. This includes the accounting for: 56,000 special munitions, 411 tonnes of bulk agents, 2,810 tonnes of key precursor and 553 pieces of production equipment.
49. The Commission has a certain degree of confidence in the accounting for proscribed items declared by Iraq as having been destroyed during the 1991 Gulf war. The Commission has accepted through its verification the destruction of 34,000 special munitions and 823 tonnes of key precursors. Outstanding issues remain. These include the accounting for 2,000 unfilled and 550 filled special munitions.
50. The Commission has a lesser degree of confidence in accounting for proscribed items declared by Iraq as having been destroyed unilaterally. These include 15,900 unfilled and 100 filled special munitions, the CW agent VX and 50 tonnes of a precursor for the production of VX. Nevertheless, the Commission has accepted through its verification the destruction of 13,660 special munitions and about 200 tonnes of key precursors. However, residual questions remain with respect to proscribed items destroyed unilaterally. The presentation by foreign suppliers of information on the delivery of munitions and precursors requested by UNSCOM could be helpful in the verification of this area."
5. Th UNSCOM detailed numerous examples of Iraqi interference with their inspection efforts including confiscation of documents that appeared to provide evidence of ongoing nuclear and CW programs AFTER the '91 war.
2. Immediately following the Gulf war, the Iraqi Presidency collected reports on weapons remaining with Iraq's Armed Forces after the war, including its weapons prohibited by recently adopted resolution 687(1991). Such documents were provided to the Presidency in the spring of 1991. A decision was taken by a high-level committee (one of whose members was Deputy Prime Minister Mr. Tariq Aziz) to provide to the Commission only a portion of its proscribed weapons, their components and production capabilities and stocks. The policy, as deduced from a range of evidence available to the Commission including the initial false Iraq's declarations, was based on the following Iraqi actions:
-- provide a portion of their extant weapon stocks, with an emphasis on those, which were least modern.
-- retain production capability and the "know-how" documentation necessary to revive programmes when possible
-- conceal the full extent of chemical weapons programmes, including its VX project, and retain production equipment and raw materials
-- conceal the number and type of BW and CW warheads for proscribed missiles
-- conceal indigenous long-range missile production, and retain production capabilities, specifically with respect to guidance systems and missile engines
-- conceal the very existence of its offensive biological weapons programme and retain all production capabilities"
and
"The Commission has concluded that a segregation of documents must have taken place prior to delivery to the Commission. It has sought from Iraq further explanations of what happened to the documents and where they are located. This has never been provided."
Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [tri_bri2]
[ In reply to ]
A naive question:
What is the range of 155mm shells?
Nick
What is the range of 155mm shells?
Nick
216 miles is the range of the US variant. Don't know for sure, but would assume whatever type 155 mm howitzers they had would be somewhere near that. Surely enough to be a regional threat depending on where in Iraq they were deployed.