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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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It does have a replaceable derailleur hanger... thus each component is only 2-3mm thick. Both the derailleur hanger and the dropout broke together.
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [brogala] [ In reply to ]
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brogala wrote:
Fair enough. I understand that I likely played a factor in the problem. My understanding is that the derailleur hanger is engineered to be the weak point to prevent the drop out from breaking. Is this not accurate? Has no one else on the forum had a dropout break?

we've had a gradual transition in triathlon to replaceable dropouts. not all bike makers got on board. most are on board now. yes, you're right, the point of replaceable dropouts is that they bend so that the dropout doesn't. i don't engineer bikes but i don't remember seeing a replaceable dropout that's actually sheared. broken into 2 pieces. they bend, deform, but i don't remember them breaking in 2. however i'm happy to hear from others who have a different experience or more education on this.

if you (for example) continued to apply pressure in a chain suck situation you may either break the dropout off, or you might pull those small bolts out of the dropout that attach the replaceable part to the permanent part. your luck or lack thereof in getting your bike to remain functional depends on whether those bolts sheared off (in which case you might be able to extract the remaining pieces from the frame) or whether the bolts pulled out, stripping the threads. but it could also be that the dropout's design - the keyways and ledges between the frame and the dropout - may protect those little bolts from shearing off.

i've had good luck replacing bent dropouts. but if you just keep mashing on the pedals when the chain is sucked, and you do it with enough force, i don't know that bikes are engineered to have the dropout sheer off before the frame is affected. i'll have to defer to others on this.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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What's the proper way to tighten the bolt in the brake wedge? (I used pliers on the flat rudder part and caused the wedge to separate into two breaking off one of the little pins.)
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [brogala] [ In reply to ]
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brogala wrote:
It does have a replaceable derailleur hanger... thus each component is only 2-3mm thick. Both the derailleur hanger and the dropout broke together.

I hope I am not missing something here, but upon reviewing your photos the derailleur hanger appears to have broken/snapped only (part of it is still in the rear dropout) - the rear seat-stay/chainstay dropout is still intact and not broken. I might be missing something here but from what i can see it appears that the hanger got loaded from chain suck and broke right at the hanger keyway and the derailleur went into the wheel causing the wheel and chainstay damage.
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [bostonmatt] [ In reply to ]
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And what are the screws that attach the speed fin over the rear break? I took my speed fin off for the winter to fit on the training and can't find the screws. Can I get them at Home Depot or something, or do they need to be ordered from Trek?
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [bostonmatt] [ In reply to ]
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bostonmatt wrote:
What's the proper way to tighten the bolt in the brake wedge? (I used pliers on the flat rudder part and caused the wedge to separate into two breaking off one of the little pins.)

Here are the instructions;


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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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the drop out has two bolt holes... the one you can see with the remaining derailleur hanger at the horizontal portion, and the second bolt is currently attached to the derailleur and the small piece of the drop out... you can see where it was by the oval shaped portion at the back where it sheared off.
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [brogala] [ In reply to ]
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brogala wrote:
the drop out has two bolt holes... the one you can see with the remaining derailleur hanger at the horizontal portion, and the second bolt is currently attached to the derailleur and the small piece of the drop out... you can see where it was by the oval shaped portion at the back where it sheared off.

Thank you - now I can see the entire failure with this, you can see the keyway still bolted onto the derailleur.

The Keyway is what kept the derailleur centered and as it was pulled backwards (straight) as you pedaled forward. It had no choice but to shear/break with how this all unfolded - that would happen on any dropout designed like that and a scenario like this.
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [ In reply to ]
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News Flash- you can continue to buy Speedconcepts. As one of the most common bikes in the transition area remains safe and reliable.


My favorite ST pattern:
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [elf6c] [ In reply to ]
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elf6c wrote:
News Flash- you can continue to buy Speedconcepts. As one of the most common bikes in the transition area remains safe and reliable.


My favorite ST pattern:
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^Lol - I noticed early on he was a newcomer - wanted to make sure anyone else that stumbles on the thread does not leave confused or with a bad taste in the mouth.
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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^This. And, (get off my lawn warning) it’s getting tiresome to hear and read people’s first reaction be a total blow up of the situation and then back off and become reasonable in later conversations. Plus the title of this thread has “owners” in it, so it’s probably too late for most to not purchase a Speed Concept!
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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It is true that I joined the forum this morning to gripe about my speed concept experience, but I do have a fair amount of cycling experience. This was my first tri/tt bike, but I have owned several high end road and mountain bikes in the past without ever experiencing a non repairable drivetrain issue. I guess that your (and others) previous post warning people about the cradle bolts failing, and considering selling your speed concept and moving on was not posted to deter people from purchasing a speed concept. As with you I love the ride of my SC. Its fast, smooth and responsive. I will have an option to replace the frame with carbon care, and am considering my options. My post was to let everyone know about my experience... maybe DON'T BUY was a bit harsh but no one from the club I ride with has seen such a catastrophic drivetrain problem happen before outside of a crash. I took the frame to a carbon repair shop and they said that they have seen this problem with speed concepts before. They offered to repaired the frame for $2800 as they need to fabricate a custom mould for the rear triangle to bond in a new dropout.


teddygram ST pattern

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Last edited by: brogala: May 15, 18 12:16
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [brogala] [ In reply to ]
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brogala wrote:
It is true that I joined the forum this morning to gripe about my speed concept experience, but I do have a fair amount of cycling experience. This was my first tri/tt bike, but I have owned several high end road and mountain bikes in the past without ever experiencing a non repairable drivetrain issue. I guess that your (and others) previous post warning people about the cradle bolts failing, and considering selling your speed concept and moving on was not posted to deter people from purchasing a speed concept. As with you I love the ride of my SC. Its fast, smooth and responsive. I will have an option to replace the frame with carbon care, and am considering my options. My post was to let everyone know about my experience... maybe DON'T BUY was a bit harsh but no one from the club I ride with has seen such a catastrophic drivetrain problem happen before outside of a crash. I took the frame to a carbon repair shop and they said that they have seen this problem with speed concepts before. They offered to repaired the frame for $2800 as they need to fabricate a custom mould for the rear triangle to bond in a new dropout.


teddygram ST pattern

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Brogala,

No sweat - welcome to the board, hopefully you stick around as you can learn a lot here! I have been nosing around on this forum for years without an account and that might be your case also.

In terms of the G2SC cradle bolts - people have shown to have these bolts fail (some have not). I for one have had them fail and went as far as doing something about it to prevent it from happening again. I simply stated the facts on the cradle bolts and if that deters someones purchase of one so be it - its still the truth. I in the end kept the bike and still find it to be one of the most amazing bikes on the market.

IMO for $2800 - I would be poking around for a new bike, you could probably find a used G2SC close to that price!
Last edited by: teddygram: May 15, 18 13:07
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [brogala] [ In reply to ]
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brogala wrote:

Warning to all. DO NOT buy a speed concept. I was riding at 20ish mph when out of nowhere the rear drop out snapped. the derailleur then spun around breaking the chainstay and seatstay and bent my wheel beyond repair. Somehow I managed to get away with minor injuries, but it could have been catastrophic. I always thought that Trek was a leading manufacturer of bikes but clearly either my bike had a manufacturing flaw or their engineering department needs to put more thought into rider safety!

Sorry to see that happen to you and I'm glad you are ok. For what it's worth, the Speed Concept is one of the more popular triathlon bikes made. I'd wager that there are several thousand... if not in excess of ten thousand... Speed Concepts in use. Your failure sounds like chain suck as others above me have said.
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Can someone enlighten me how chain suck causes this to happen?

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
Can someone enlighten me how chain suck causes this to happen?

This happens in MTB a lot - visual is a lot better; http://reviews.mtbr.com/...-suck-your-chainsuck

Basically the entire system get's kinked or locked up and you rip off the rear derailleur.
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [brogala] [ In reply to ]
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brogala wrote:
It is true that I joined the forum this morning to gripe about my speed concept experience, but I do have a fair amount of cycling experience. This was my first tri/tt bike, but I have owned several high end road and mountain bikes in the past without ever experiencing a non repairable drivetrain issue. I guess that your (and others) previous post warning people about the cradle bolts failing, and considering selling your speed concept and moving on was not posted to deter people from purchasing a speed concept. As with you I love the ride of my SC. Its fast, smooth and responsive. I will have an option to replace the frame with carbon care, and am considering my options. My post was to let everyone know about my experience... maybe DON'T BUY was a bit harsh but no one from the club I ride with has seen such a catastrophic drivetrain problem happen before outside of a crash. I took the frame to a carbon repair shop and they said that they have seen this problem with speed concepts before. They offered to repaired the frame for $2800 as they need to fabricate a custom mould for the rear triangle to bond in a new dropout.


teddygram ST pattern

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paul thomas is on this forum board. he's hooked up with a carbon bike repair outfit down in tucson where he lives, and i'll bet can repair your bike for a fraction of that cost.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [brogala] [ In reply to ]
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brogala wrote:
It is true that I joined the forum this morning to gripe about my speed concept experience, but I do have a fair amount of cycling experience. This was my first tri/tt bike, but I have owned several high end road and mountain bikes in the past without ever experiencing a non repairable drivetrain issue. I guess that your (and others) previous post warning people about the cradle bolts failing, and considering selling your speed concept and moving on was not posted to deter people from purchasing a speed concept. As with you I love the ride of my SC. Its fast, smooth and responsive. I will have an option to replace the frame with carbon care, and am considering my options. My post was to let everyone know about my experience... maybe DON'T BUY was a bit harsh but no one from the club I ride with has seen such a catastrophic drivetrain problem happen before outside of a crash. I took the frame to a carbon repair shop and they said that they have seen this problem with speed concepts before. They offered to repaired the frame for $2800 as they need to fabricate a custom mould for the rear triangle to bond in a new dropout.


teddygram ST pattern

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You might be able to get Trek to replace the frame under crash replacement for less than that. Now if you bought the bike 2nd hand I am not sure if that will work. Also, if you bought the bike 2nd hand then maybe there was some unknown damage to that area when you bought it.
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Re: Gen 1 - Extra long bolts for increased stack height? [Ksavostin] [ In reply to ]
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Were you able to get the stem seating issue resolved? Just got an SC from dealer and the space below the stem seems comparable. Obviously dealer should be answering these questions but their head guy is the one that built it up. Took a look myself and seemed the stem attachment bolts fully tightened don’t allow the stem to get any lower.
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Re: Gen 1 - Extra long bolts for increased stack height? [Elktonkool] [ In reply to ]
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Elktonkool wrote:
Were you able to get the stem seating issue resolved? Just got an SC from dealer and the space below the stem seems comparable. Obviously dealer should be answering these questions but their head guy is the one that built it up. Took a look myself and seemed the stem attachment bolts fully tightened don’t allow the stem to get any lower.

I don't advise this at all - but I have worked on a few stubborn SCG2 that would not seat, as I said I do not advise this but what I did was;

  • Remove the pinch bolt completely from the stem
  • Run the stem bolts in slightly
  • Stick a flat head screwdriver where the pinch bolt was and open up it up
  • hit the stem down-word with a rubber mallet
  • screw stem/pinch bolt to spec

Like I said - just what I have done and something they would most likely never recommend or do from Trek HQ or Trek LBS
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Re: Gen 1 - Extra long bolts for increased stack height? [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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^ method of last resort :)

I found that disassembling back to scratch (steerer removed) and rebuilding, checking for alignment at each stage worked. When assembling have the frame rest on its side so there are no loads up/down/fore/aft. Seat the stem before inserting bolts. Tighten carefully and keep checking.

This was a labour of love so I may have resolved the issue and not noticed as I continued on. It never harms to be thorough.

Developing aero, fit and other fun stuff at Red is Faster
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Re: Gen 1 - Extra long bolts for increased stack height? [SkippyKitten] [ In reply to ]
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Trek still has a few of the 2017 gray frame sets at a closeout MSRP of $2500.

A brand new one is $4000. You may find some dealers with NOS willing to let a new bike go for $3000.

Instead of repairing, I would go new.
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Re: Gen 1 - Extra long bolts for increased stack height? [BBB1975] [ In reply to ]
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Just replying to the last post. This also probably needs to go in the "Cry like a biatch" thread but here goes.

I've got a 2nd hand SC and recently wanted to lower my pads and bars to be a bit more aero.

I've got what I assume is the standard Botranger aero bar and so ordered a set of various size bolts so that I could remove some spacers and lower myself.

WHAT KIND OF COMPANY SELLS THE BOLTS IN 2s WHEN IT IS BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS THAT THE MINIMUM YOU WOULD REQUIRE TO HAVE YOUR PADS/BARS THE SAME HEIGHT ON EACH SIZE IS 2*2=4?!?

Rant over. Just seems ridiculous.

I should add, I didn't buy them from Botranger or Trek but an online bike shop which I can't remember the name of. They were pretty hard to find I thought.

Just wanted to vent.


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Re: Gen 1 - Extra long bolts for increased stack height? [SkippyKitten] [ In reply to ]
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I was able to get the word from Trek tech. The shim between the stem and fork is the cause of the gap. They started including the shim to prevent the stem from damaging paint from contact. Sounds like their wholesale use of the shim is pretty new. But it is safe to ride with or without it, whichever you prefer.
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Re: Draft box opening [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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I do! Gen 2 7.0, so no aero base bar. I actually snapped one of the bolts that hold the base bar on recently (under heavy load while climbing), which is when the creaking started to get worse. Shop replaced the snapped bolt, but the creak stayed for some reason.

The only time I really notice mine is when I'm on the base bar and applying lateral pressure. Not so much when aero. Seems like it's just an annoyance at this point, but I do plan on bringing it back into the shop relatively soon.

Ironically, this is the exact reason why I came to the forum today, glad I'm not the only one with the issue :).
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