"not a Divine one."

In the old testmant god was really good at calling for slaughter in his name. he also flooded the world, destroyed entire cities including the inocent and destroyed lives to test faith. No the christian god is a violent god.

---

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

That's true. But if you keep reading, that all changes with Jesus Christ.

> At least you'll have a lot of company. ;)

Do think they'll all smoke?

-Zo

This kind of thing worries me about organized religion too:

http://www.cnn.com/...ren.slain/index.html

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Oooops sorry about all that. Now I have split my personality starting worshipping myself and presto all is forgiven. Strange.

---

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Tom, this woman is clearly insane. What on earth would make you think that organized religion caused this?

As I mentioned earlier, this kind of thing is in my mind, clearly the work of Satan.

She is obviously crazy. I once had a client tell me that God told him to run for office and then proceeded to lay out the platform that God gave him to run on. I didn't take the race, but I did watch as he went down hard in a primary election. I'm not sure his own family voted for him.

People need to believe in something and sometimes they use a higher power to justify their actions. Think about the suicide bombers who needlessly kill scores of people for Allah and a spot forever in paradise.

"People need to believe in something and sometimes they use a higherpower to justify their actions. Think about the suicide bombers who needlessly kill scores of people for Allah and a spot forever in paradise."

My point exactly.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom, I didn't write this but I think it might help.

We know from many other places in God's Word that the heart contains our true character and true relationship with our Heavenly Father. When God was showing Samuel who to anoint as king of Israel He reminded Him: "The Lord does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart" (1 Samuel 16:7). Our outward actions are a "reflection" of the condition of our heart, but they are not a true image and most certainly can deceive!

God saw this deception in the worship of His Children long ago. We are all susceptible to the trap of going through the motions of worship without really having a heart devoted to God: "These people come near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. Their worship of Me is made up only of rules taught by men" (Isaiah 29:13).

For those that have other questions or wish to get more info on the questions they do have ... check here:

http://christiananswers.net/home.html

I think you'll find that the questions here are not unique ... and ones that many Christians have asked themselves before. People don't believe in something they believe to be false or inaccurate. Only evidence erases doubt.

-----------------------------------------------

No the christian god is a violent god.

God has went to great lengths to get our attention ... yet many still ignore God. Is violence God's first or last option (you can answer this question with some reading)?

When your parents punished you for going against them, did you think of them as "violent" or as loving parents trying to get you to realize you are not doing what you have been instructed to do?

---

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Similarly, it's pointless to argue against a faith that you don't know anything about.

Sorry I have to call you on this one. What a wimpy way out. I hope that I'm just seeing one side of your feelings on this issue. You would really let a small percentage of crazies make up your mind on such an issue? Please tell me that you have studied a handful of religons for yourself and spent some serious time in self examination afterwards.

Remember the LBS thread from last Friday? How fair would it be for me to say, I've met/heard of several LBS owners that are self righteous, arrogant, etc. therefore I'm going to scrap the whole lot of them.

"If you were to table the subject with a Mormon, they might contend that the Bible has three books. According to that logic, that would make Christians (non-Mormons) "lesser" as well, as they don't believe in what Mormons see as the "whole" Bible. "



Hi sorry not meaning to split hairs and realize this has nothing to do with the subject but...

The mormons believe that the Bible is the complete word of as it deals with the people of the middle east. The Book of Mormon is a seperate companiion book to the bible which talks about the peoples of North and South America and christ's visitations after his death. Kinda a whole world view.

They also believe they whole reserection story and use the King James version of the Bible and proably wouldn't arguw with anyones mais stream view of the Bible. They also don't believe yo headed for hell if you don't believe. You have another chance.

I was raised a mormon had to cross picket lines to go into church and the temple so from what I have seen in my life relegion is either where you go because you are afraid of death or you got an axe to grind.

I say leave people alone and if I go to hell then just play your harp and be happy it ain't you.

---

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

"You would really let a small percentage of crazies make up your mind on such an issue?"

I've seen a lot of crazies.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

TripleThreat ,



Thankyou for the web site, I will be interested to take a close look at this....

---

"You're guaranteed to miss 100% of the shots you never take" - Wayne Gretzky

"When your parents punished you for going against them, did you think of them as "violent" or as loving parents trying to get you to realize you are not doing what you have been instructed to do? "



They didn't kill and mame on a grand scale then commit suicide an come back and say. Hey it's all cool. Why exactly is coming back to life the answer? I don't get it. Yes I have read and read and read and read. It's all gravy just leave me alone at work is all I ask.

---

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

***WARNING A CHRISTIAN HAS APPROACHED THE PULPIT****

Tom,

I'm going to offer up a possibility based on this thread and other posts that you've made over the last year or so. I may be way off base and piss you off or I may be right on and still piss you off. Either way, here goes.

You are hurting deeply inside and have tried a great number of things to fill that. You've tried it with women, with work, with life experiences, and most recently and most effectively with triathlon and training. But for some reason, it's still not enough. No matter how much you train, or work, or whatever, you still feel an emptiness inside and want it to go away. You think religion might be the answer, but maybe you tried that in the past and that didn't work either. Tom, I here to tell you that Jesus Christ is the answer. The hole that you feel inside is what Christians typically refer to as a "God shaped" hole. You can fill it and it is most definately worth it.

Please send me an email or send one to any of the other Christians that have posted and we'll be glad to explain why this is worth it and how Christ can change your life.

Hey tibbs, sorry to here you say that

<I say leave people alone and if I go to hell then just play your harp and be happy it ain't you. >

I guess the reason why Christians try to reach others is that once they understand the love of God and understand what Jesus Christ really did on that cross, they really can't help but want to share it with everyone. Sometimes it's out of moralistic reasons, but sometimes it really is out of genuine love for others.

This is just an example, but if a family member that you loved very much was going to Hell, wouldn't you try to talk to them, even if they didn't want you to. I guess it's hard to draw the line between respecting their desire to be left alone and really caring for their wellbeing.

I'm not saying that we are in that same position, since you aren't family and I don't have that relationship with you, but a concern is still there.

oh well, that's it. take it easy guys.

---

*****************************************

berndog
How did we all get sucked into this crazy sport anyway?!!

Matt,

I can tell this about my experience with the Christian people on this forum.

Through difficult times they have always extended kindness, understanding and a helping hand. That has never, ever been lost on me- and I sincerely appreciate it. I have recieved kind e-mails and offers of help and advice regarding the death of my friend Michael R. Rabe and other personal matters. I really appreciate and admire that.

I've had a lot of life expereinces. To be realistic, I've probably had as much life experience in as many places as most people would have in, maybe, five normal 80 year lifespans.

As a result, I've seen the greatest things, and been subjected to the worst things. And I'm still here- smarter and stronger because of all of it, but still often very weak and very stupid in the grand scheme of things.

I'm one of those guys who will tell you I have my "own set of beliefs" and I believe in them strongly, even when my faith in them is tested- actually they are especially strong then.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom,

I'm glad that your experiences have been what they have, and I'm glad that you have faith in something. With no faith at all, life would be bleak indeed. It is not my job or calling to judge you or anyone else. What I am called to do is to love you and pray for you and try and help you, no matter what.

Matt

I served a Mormon mission in Tokyo, Japan for 2 years a decade or so ago. The Mormon church, as does many other Christian churches send out missionaries to preach and teach their doctrines to all four corners of the earth. In the Mormon faith, it is expected of every young man to go on a 2 year mission. You can go when you turn 19. Women can go when they turn 21.

I went on this mission not because it was expected of me, but because I had a desire to share what I believed. This desire to share came from the happiness and spiritual peace that I have found through the Mormon faith. Naturally, when you find something good, you want to share it with others. I think that this, along with Christ's admonition to his followers to teach His gospel is what prompts most Christian missionaries to leave the comforts of home and to go to far-away lands, leaving behind friends, families, education, etc. It was a sacrifice that I made, but it was so rewarding to me, personally, that I don't even consider it a sacrifice. My own personal convictions were strengthened and I grew to love and appreciate Christ for what he did for us more. I also met so many wonderful people who I respect and love as much as my own family. You truly care for those whom you serve.

Some faiths don't require you to go to distant countries or commit any particular amount of time. But the reason behind their teaching, I believe, is the same; they found something they love and want to share it. I don't think it has anything to do with being able wield more power politically or socially (that is entirely not the reason why I went). I also don't think it is to get their churches more money.

If someone asks you to learn about their faith, my guess is that they're doing so because they have found a source of joy and want to share it. Don't just blow it off as religious zealousy or idiocity, etc. I know that when I share what I believe, it's simply because I think that a particular person will be receptive and rspectful to what I have to say and will benefit from it, as I have.

i haven't had a cance to look through the rest of the posts but here are my 2 cents...

Prostelytizers in general do so because
their religion has a tenent saying that if you are of that religion you are saved or something to that effect. Inherent in that belief is that non-believers are not saved.

I believe that the people who are prosteolytic is becuase they care about their fellow man/woman and want them to be saved...

That is what I believe the idea behind it is...

On the other hand I don't believe that that is the motivation behind all people that prostelyze, like anything there are many motivations for doing something. Some people do it to get brownie points, or to validate their own beliefs... there are many bad reasons... I believe that the concern for your fellow person is a good reason...

Now I do know that some religions (judaism) specifically forbay protelyzing. The details are fuzzy but it started in eastern european judaism where they were living in the ghettos apart from the the non-jews. In russia I think, the peopel wanted to expell the jews becuase they were concerned that they would try to convert the non-jews... well in response, to be able to live where they already were they forbay prostelyzing


There are religions which have no inerest in prostelyzing at all (buddhism, shiinto etc...) so it is not a universal thing at all

I appreciate that Matt. You're a true friend and valued associate on this forum.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Thanks Tom. Did you get your original question answered?

Not alone is the "God" of Christianity also the "God" of Judaism, but he/she/it is also the "God" of Islam.

Makes you wonder why everyone just can't get along, eh?