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Re: Michael Weiss [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Sheriff Deputy.
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Re: Michael Weiss [Alan Couzens] [ In reply to ]
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Alan Couzens wrote:
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I really can't believe people still bang on about it.


She was 14. A child. And, as her coach, he was an authority figure with significant influence over her. He abused that authority in the worst way possible.

Your moral code (or lack thereof) is becoming more apparent with every post you make. Unbelievable.
Lol really. As adjudged by you on a tri forum. How will I sleep tonight? My point all along is when do we let go. Everyone has served there penalty so many years ago. Let the court of Slowtwitch roll on and no be allowed to have a fresh opinion...
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Re: Michael Weiss [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
Maybe you should learn all the facts before you make it sound so black and white then (agreed yes he was in the wrong) but I really can't believe people still bang on about it.

https://www.outsideonline.com/1892511/they-shoot-triathletes-dont-they
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Did you learn anything from the recent gymnastics scandal, or maybe google us swimming and coaches abusing their young swimmers. People bang on about it because if Sutton gets a pass we normalize this shit.
Last edited by: The Guardian: Jun 1, 18 16:59
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Re: Michael Weiss [The Guardian] [ In reply to ]
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The Guardian wrote:
Shambolic wrote:
Maybe you should learn all the facts before you make it sound so black and white then (agreed yes he was in the wrong) but I really can't believe people still bang on about it.

https://www.outsideonline.com/1892511/they-shoot-triathletes-dont-they
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Did you learn anything from the recent gymnastics scandal, or maybe google us swimming and coaches abusing their young swimmers. People bang on about it because if Sutton gets a pass we normalize this shit.
What about the Catholic church? Everyone seems to give them a pass for systemic child abuse and then what is worse defending themselves in court and causing thousands of suicides around the world. I am sure plenty of good people who are triathletes on here still go to church every Sunday but choose to bash the few in question on this thread. Yes I am fully aware of Weinstein, US gymnastics coach, the US president and it seems every actor of some prominence in Hollywood. I am not denying what he did was wrong 30 years ago now in an ISOLATED case. As slowman talked about earlier in the thread I think he and Weiss have earned their redemption and everyone needs to move on from the sewing circle of the slowtwitch forum having never met any of the people involved. Thats just my opinion everyone can bash me over it but people deserve forgiveness at some point.
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Re: Michael Weiss [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Are you seriously comparing cheating in sports to raping a 14 year old? What the fuck is wrong with you?
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Re: Michael Weiss [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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I never compared the two. What the fuck is wrong with you?
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Re: Michael Weiss [mbwallis] [ In reply to ]
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mbwallis wrote:
I prefer this article:

https://www.theguardian.com/...ry/0,,678189,00.html

Thanks for digging that up as that really puts things in perspective The Outside Online article seemed to tone down the abuse even though I still consider the abuse of a position of power as a heinous crime when it comes to both sex and minors, but even if of age as well, even if consensual. The Guardian article really paints a different picture. I don't think there is a question in my mind about the type of person Sutto is and I would argue if that has changed. His manipulation of the psyche of athletes seem to be on thing that is reiterated over and over again today as a key to his success. His request that athletes submit to him 100% seems to also be reiterated. Reformed or not, that seems like two huge risk for athletes. I guess if these athletes want it bad enough and they are willing to do whatever it takes that is their own fault but I would be curious if any former athletes or current athletes of his have read this piece and what their take is.

The way I look at it is that WADA/USADA is partially protecting athletes from their own demise by banning the use of some unsafe drugs. Maybe Sutto should be banned from coaching completely and not just in Australia. What sort of tests/protocol has Sutto passed to prove his isn't in danger of doing the same thing again other than refusing to coach athletes under 16. 16 is a start but we need to protect people of all ages from the abuse of power regardless of how consensual things may be.


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Re: Michael Weiss [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think your Catholic church analogy holds up. Going to church is kind of like continuing to watch women's gymnastics - it doesn't mean that you agree with the abusers buried within the system. Now, if one were to continue to go to a certain priest that was a known abuser - that would be the Sutton case. And I am pretty sure no one is doing that - or if they are, then they are pretty weird.
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Re: Michael Weiss [The Guardian] [ In reply to ]
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No it is the knowledge and coverup from the very top not the rogue priests I am making comparison to. A rogue doctor or coach doesn't make me want to stop watching a sport but a rogue organisation that moves perpetrators around to hide their actions would be another matter. I just want to highlight what seems to be an inconsistency in what people seem to see as a doper or Sutto's case in relation to the real world and peoples blindness to bigger and far worse issues to individuals. I have never condoned their actions but say that each have served their penalty a long time ago and I personally look to move on. If your choice is not to then so be it. This whole thread has turned into a bit of a farce and I'm done. I've made my point and people are free to disagree. I suggest you read the link below or even watch the movie in regard the Catholic Church argument and that is just one of the many cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_scandal_in_the_Catholic_archdiocese_of_Boston
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Re: Michael Weiss [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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If people were willing to let it go then this thread would not have taken the turn it has, but what someone did was decide that dopers (or their clothing) should be called out whilst being coached by Sutton. It is, as explained repeatedly, hypocritical, a cognitive dissonance and / or virtue signalling

As an aside. As a father of two girls I'd not let them anywhere near him. Not because 18 years later I think he is a threat, but because there are somethings and some sorts of crimes that have much longer term consequences in terms of trust from society. What i am unable to wrap my head round is, that I don't think today, any of his female athletes would be going to larry Nasser or us swimming coaches for plans but Sutton is different............maybe it's just the scale of abuse that doesn't make it ok

He does get good results though.......
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Re: Michael Weiss [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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31 years but we digress
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Re: Michael Weiss [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
The Guardian wrote:
Shambolic wrote:
Maybe you should learn all the facts before you make it sound so black and white then (agreed yes he was in the wrong) but I really can't believe people still bang on about it.

https://www.outsideonline.com/1892511/they-shoot-triathletes-dont-they
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I am not denying what he did was wrong 30 years ago now in an ISOLATED case.

I trained with & knew one of his top female athletes from the 90's/early 2000's very well. To put it mildly, the guy is a creep & in my opinion, he should not be allowed to coach.

I am shocked that more hasn't come out about him.
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Re: Michael Weiss [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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I was referencing his admission in 1999-2000.

Either way the point stands. Perhaps if Larry ever gets out some here could look him up for flexibility training.......
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Re: Michael Weiss [NAB777] [ In reply to ]
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Based on what someone told you your opinion. Sounds legit...
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Re: Michael Weiss [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
each have served their penalty a long time ago


Did Sutton serve his penalty, though?

Did he do any jail time as others guilty of similar acts of molestation do (and should)?

Did he even serve the minor sentence that was handed down? Thinking that, maybe, a lifetime ban is a deserved punishment for that level of offense (an offense that the victim will carry through the entirety of their life) &, heck, given his proclivities for wanting to have sex with children that maybe a job in a position of authority over a bunch of young athletes isn't the best long term career choice?

No, he doesn't stick around and 'take his punishment like a man'. Instead, he flees to a country known for its tolerance of disgusting old dudes who like to have sex with children and seeks legal advice as to 'just how young can I go?'

His actions after the fact speak to his lack of remorse and are completely indefensible.

Bottom line: Coaches, from any sport, who commit a sex offense against their athletes should receive a lifetime coaching ban. A ban that is enforced globally.

The one thing we do agree on - Sutton being allowed to continue to coach brings the entire sport (religion) into disrepute.

Alan Couzens, M.Sc. (Sports Science)
Exercise Physiologist/Coach
https://alancouzens.com
Last edited by: Alan Couzens: Jun 2, 18 10:46
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Re: Michael Weiss [Alan Couzens] [ In reply to ]
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I would stop now as you are making yourself look like a fool with rash outlandish claims. If you want to check your facts he has been in Australia the last month running sold out athlete training camps including my home town that friends eagerly attended, so if he hadn't served his penalty he would have been arrested at immigration. As I say he served his penalty long ago and people choose to attend his camps or be coached by him...
Last edited by: Shambolic: Jun 2, 18 14:58
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Re: Michael Weiss [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure what facts you disagree with. The lifetime ban from coaching in Australia was handed down at the trial and was referenced in the Guardian piece that came out shortly after the trial that mbwallis linked to.

Regarding his failure to adhere to this by running the recent camps, Triathlon Australia was contacted. I was told that the sanctions could only be enforced at the level of the federation but that he would never again be certified as as coach within Australia or be involved in any way with the Australian team.

This kind of locality of enforcement is exactly the problem I'm talking about. All athletes around the world should be subject to the same level of protection from coaches with this type of history. At the very least, hopefully threads like this will help to inform some of the younger athletes who may not be aware of just how grievous and disgusting his acts were.

Alan Couzens, M.Sc. (Sports Science)
Exercise Physiologist/Coach
https://alancouzens.com
Last edited by: Alan Couzens: Jun 3, 18 6:39
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Re: Michael Weiss [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
Based on what someone told you your opinion. Sounds legit...

First hand, mate. She was an ITU athlete, lived with him in Europe and was there.......
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Re: Michael Weiss [Alan Couzens] [ In reply to ]
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This post has definitely drifted!
My score card says Sutton is REALLY, REALLY Bad, and should probably never get a pass for what he did. Weiss was a cheat, and clearly not as bad as Sutton, possibly in the same category of any sport cheater, and MAYBE get’s a pass if he no longer cheats. Does that sum it up?
In regard to the overall general topic of punishment for bad deeds, IMO the entire society has for far to long errored on the side of being much to lienient. It seems to me bad things essential fall into 2 major categories-
REALLY, REALLY BAD horrific offenses that as a society we should NEVER forgive, and then bad things that we shouldn’t do, but are “repairable”.
In the first category, I would certainly include murder, child abuse, DUI ( because it is a conscience choice that disregards the life of others)- things of that nature. For acts in this category the punishment should be so hainous, so harsh, that everyone would say “whoa, that’s crazy”. Why? This are all acts of disregard for other people’s life’s that are done by conscience choice, and there is no coming back for the victims. You do not want punishments so weak that no one even remember them, you want everyone from a young age to fully understand that it is a line you don’t ever cross, and there is no coming back.
For the second category, I am highly negotiable:-)
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