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Re: Michael Weiss [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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You are right, allegedly? We don't know anything about anything.

but the picture makes it sound like those numbers ( being able to win) are only because of blood doping?? So all others with similar numbers must be blood dopers then to no.

He shouldn't stay the numbers at all. Just say what you meant to say.

WE HAVE CHEATERS EVERY WHERE IN SPORTS NOW and NO ONE HAS THE BALLS TO SAY GET OUT!!!

THE IOC let Russian athletes back into the games for F sakes.

Nina Kraft ( 2004 Kona winner) got to come back to triathlon after being caught taking EPO and admitting it. ( if you use her example as well it doesn't stay with your system).

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: Michael Weiss [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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Triathletetoth wrote:
just based off the picture listed without knowing the athlete and or course measures.

I would guess this could be .

---
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etc, etc. about 7-8 other top guys that race this way.

Point being. Why don't they get that kind of post. Seems to be more about the athlete then the numbers.

I don't like dopers just objectivity.


----

I realize Weiss has been caught prior, but I’m not willing to label him “a cheat” for his recent results. Maybe he really is busting his ass and putting in the work, and getting the results.

I will say I think PED use is YUUUUGE in professional sports, and tri is no exception (in my opinion).
Last edited by: Slowman: May 28, 18 20:55
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Re: Michael Weiss [Culley22] [ In reply to ]
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(in my opinion). /

So in your opinion, the guy that got busted prior and was a professional bike racer you defend, and two guys that have never come close to controversy you blast out of the blue? Horseshit... ( the smell of so peoples opinions)
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Re: Michael Weiss [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
(in my opinion). /

So in your opinion, the guy that got busted prior and was a professional bike racer you defend, and two guys that have never come close to controversy you blast out of the blue? Horseshit... ( the smell of so peoples opinions)

Whoooooooaaaa there! I’m not blasting anyone on PED use. I’m giving them all the benefit of hard work. While it’d be great to vilify a “known” cheat...we don’t know if he is cheating now. Sure, point out the past actions, but without positive proof recently you’re just looking at his “good results”. And by just looking at results, THEN we could have a post like this for a LOT of athletes (examples were given). Do you disagree?

Sorry your panties are in a bunch on this. #sorrynotsorry
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Re: Michael Weiss [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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i really don't believe what i'm reading here. i'm hoping there's some sort of language (and culture) breakdown. if you're going to express concerns about the righteousness of certain athletes, you'll need to bring hard evidence. i don't necessarily mean a positive test or other proof of doping. but at least a hard data-driven analysis that you're willing to stand behind regardless of who else falls inside your mathematical formula that expresses a high likelihood. or whatever else you want to offer.

25 years ago i traveled the circuit, worldwide, along with a wife that got 2nd in kona, won a lot of IMs, and we knew the landscape. we weren't fools. but any suspicions we had remained between us, because what if we were wrong?

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Michael Weiss [Culley22] [ In reply to ]
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Culley22 wrote:
monty wrote:
(in my opinion). /

So in your opinion, the guy that got busted prior and was a professional bike racer you defend, and two guys that have never come close to controversy you blast out of the blue? Horseshit... ( the smell of so peoples opinions)


Whoooooooaaaa there! I’m not blasting anyone on PED use. I’m giving them all the benefit of hard work. While it’d be great to vilify a “known” cheat...we don’t know if he is cheating now. Sure, point out the past actions, but without positive proof recently you’re just looking at his “good results”. And by just looking at results, THEN we could have a post like this for a LOT of athletes (examples were given). Do you disagree?

Sorry your panties are in a bunch on this. #sorrynotsorry

i modified your post. and took out names. look, i think this continued hazing of michi is pretty low. whether by spectators or other pros. who have a very selective idea of when outrage is warranted. in my opinion - and michi knows this, because while others are not willing to express to michi their views personally, and only tweet about him, i have expressed this face to face with him - i think he's never going to find stasis and resolution until he owns up to his past. that said, he served his time. i'm not saying that we all should forget his bust. just, that there's a line somewhere between remembering and stalking and i don't know where it is but i get the sense we may be across it.

on the other hand, it's just uncool to say, well, if i had to take my guess, this person, that one, and that one, are doping. you oughta be really effing sure you want to publicly say that, because, what if i said, "if i had to guess, culley22 is beating his dog. not an accusation! just a sort of inkling i have." how would that make you feel? because, that's pretty much what another athlete feels like when you make that public guess.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Michael Weiss [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Culley22 wrote:
monty wrote:
(in my opinion). /

So in your opinion, the guy that got busted prior and was a professional bike racer you defend, and two guys that have never come close to controversy you blast out of the blue? Horseshit... ( the smell of so peoples opinions)


Whoooooooaaaa there! I’m not blasting anyone on PED use. I’m giving them all the benefit of hard work. While it’d be great to vilify a “known” cheat...we don’t know if he is cheating now. Sure, point out the past actions, but without positive proof recently you’re just looking at his “good results”. And by just looking at results, THEN we could have a post like this for a LOT of athletes (examples were given). Do you disagree?

Sorry your panties are in a bunch on this. #sorrynotsorry

i modified your post. and took out names. look, i think this continued hazing of michi is pretty low. whether by spectators or other pros. who have a very selective idea of when outrage is warranted. in my opinion - and michi knows this, because while others are not willing to express to michi their views personally, and only tweet about him, i have expressed this face to face with him - i think he's never going to find stasis and resolution until he owns up to his past. that said, he served his time. i'm not saying that we all should forget his bust. just, that there's a line somewhere between remembering and stalking and i don't know where it is but i get the sense we may be across it.

on the other hand, it's just uncool to say, well, if i had to take my guess, this person, that one, and that one, are doping. you oughta be really effing sure you want to publicly say that, because, what if i said, "if i had to guess, culley22 is beating his dog. not an accusation! just a sort of inkling i have." how would that make you feel? because, that's pretty much what another athlete feels like when you make that public guess.

I went back and checked, and you could have at least just X’d them out, deleting a big chunk now makes it seem out of left field [pink]

You replied and wrote at me in your response so I just want to clarify: I’m not going after Weiss. I was saying that without proof and based on results, than all the top guys could then just have these “comments” about them.

As to your question (what if you said...): I wouldn’t care. I cant control other people’s thoughts. But if my position had people to have greater suspicion I was a dog beater...then I would expected such “inklings”, they come with “my position”, I expect them from some and they wouldn’t have me too worried as long as I knew I was clean.
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Re: Michael Weiss [Culley22] [ In reply to ]
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Culley22 wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Culley22 wrote:
monty wrote:
(in my opinion). /

So in your opinion, the guy that got busted prior and was a professional bike racer you defend, and two guys that have never come close to controversy you blast out of the blue? Horseshit... ( the smell of so peoples opinions)


Whoooooooaaaa there! I’m not blasting anyone on PED use. I’m giving them all the benefit of hard work. While it’d be great to vilify a “known” cheat...we don’t know if he is cheating now. Sure, point out the past actions, but without positive proof recently you’re just looking at his “good results”. And by just looking at results, THEN we could have a post like this for a LOT of athletes (examples were given). Do you disagree?

Sorry your panties are in a bunch on this. #sorrynotsorry


i modified your post. and took out names. look, i think this continued hazing of michi is pretty low. whether by spectators or other pros. who have a very selective idea of when outrage is warranted. in my opinion - and michi knows this, because while others are not willing to express to michi their views personally, and only tweet about him, i have expressed this face to face with him - i think he's never going to find stasis and resolution until he owns up to his past. that said, he served his time. i'm not saying that we all should forget his bust. just, that there's a line somewhere between remembering and stalking and i don't know where it is but i get the sense we may be across it.

on the other hand, it's just uncool to say, well, if i had to take my guess, this person, that one, and that one, are doping. you oughta be really effing sure you want to publicly say that, because, what if i said, "if i had to guess, culley22 is beating his dog. not an accusation! just a sort of inkling i have." how would that make you feel? because, that's pretty much what another athlete feels like when you make that public guess.


I went back and checked, and you could have at least just X’d them out, deleting a big chunk now makes it seem out of left field [pink]

You replied and wrote at me in your response so I just want to clarify: I’m not going after Weiss. I was saying that without proof and based on results, than all the top guys could then just have these “comments” about them.

As to your question (what if you said...): I wouldn’t care. I cant control other people’s thoughts. But if my position had people to have greater suspicion I was a dog beater...then I would expected such “inklings”, they come with “my position”, I expect them from some and they wouldn’t have me too worried as long as I knew I was clean.

i know you're not going after weiss. in fact, i'm not sure, but i might be agreeing with you about weiss, as far as it goes. and, no, you're wrong. if your whole neighborhood, your whole city, your whole county, thought you were beating your dog, when you knew you weren't, you'd be pretty unhappy, both at the situation, and the agent who was responsible. it was my impression you were making insinuations at certain others, who have not been implicated in the least. perhaps i misread you.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Michael Weiss [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:

i know you're not going after weiss. in fact, i'm not sure, but i might be agreeing with you about weiss, as far as it goes. and, no, you're wrong. if your whole neighborhood, your whole city, your whole county, thought you were beating your dog, when you knew you weren't, you'd be pretty unhappy, both at the situation, and the agent who was responsible. it was my impression you were making insinuations at certain others, who have not been implicated in the least. perhaps i misread you.

Ah, I see the confusion; I was not implicating the ones I mentioned, in fact exactly the opposite. I was using the pointy end of the field, who I am a fan of, at any point can be questioned if just using “results”. I would like to believe they’re all good, and barring any results I will continue to assume they are. Though, I will stand by my PED use statement in professional sports and my belief their use is widespread.

If I was the dog catcher of my neighborhood and it’s well known that dog catchers all over sometimes beat dogs, though I do not beat dogs (just catch them). But recognizing that sometimes if you’re really good at you job, and a public figure, that false things will be said about you at one point or another. So I wouldn’t think much of some rumor mongering that sometimes happens to people in my public, dog catcher, position. Especially if I knew I was clean.
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Post deleted by windschatten [ In reply to ]
Last edited by: windschatten: May 28, 18 22:37
Re: Michael Weiss [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
Culley22 wrote:

If I was the dog catcher of my neighborhood and it’s well known that dog catchers all over sometimes beat dogs, though I do not beat dogs (just catch them). But recognizing that sometimes if you’re really good at you job, and a public figure, that false things will be said about you at one point or another. So I wouldn’t think much of some rumor mongering that sometimes happens to people in my public, dog catcher, position. Especially if I knew I was clean.


Oh really?

No worries about people shouting at you in the streets, calling you all sorts of names, spitting at you?

That wouldn't get to you at all?

I think you have no idea....

Please see Dan’s original question.

Did anyone here spit on, or scream names at anyone?? Because isn’t this in reference to people just expressing their “opinion” based on “inklings”....on the internet (or just in rumor mill whispers)?? Maybe I missed the public lynchings and assaults.
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Re: Michael Weiss [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
i know you're not going after weiss. in fact, i'm not sure, but i might be agreeing with you about weiss, as far as it goes. and, no, you're wrong. if your whole neighborhood, your whole city, your whole county, thought you were beating your dog, when you knew you weren't, you'd be pretty unhappy, both at the situation, and the agent who was responsible. it was my impression you were making insinuations at certain others, who have not been implicated in the least. perhaps i misread you.

There is a saying: if you run into an asshole in the morning, that person is an asshole. When you run into assholes all day, maybe you’re the asshole.

If someone’s entire country think them to be a cheater (for whatever Reason the ENTIRE country has) then maybe...
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Re: Michael Weiss [Culley22] [ In reply to ]
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I feel the best way to protest is to simply put his sponsors product on my black list. If companies want to sponsor convicted or ex-dopers then I simply wont spend my cash. The best form of protest is to not buy HED or Diamond Back or Blue Seventy etc. I wont buy these products.
We can't stop people racing once they come back from bans but we can protest by avoiding their sponsors. Stop supporting these companies - make it clear you don't like their sponsorship and marketing...
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Re: Michael Weiss [sticky] [ In reply to ]
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sticky wrote:
I feel the best way to protest is to simply put his sponsors product on my black list. If companies want to sponsor convicted or ex-dopers then I simply wont spend my cash. The best form of protest is to not buy HED or Diamond Back or Blue Seventy etc. I wont buy these products.
We can't stop people racing once they come back from bans but we can protest by avoiding their sponsors. Stop supporting these companies - make it clear you don't like their sponsorship and marketing...

Lol, I just bought HED Jet black wheels, I love them. Steve Hed was awesome and I will continue to support that company when I can.

It's been said before, if you are not going to buy certain products because they sponsor current or past dopers, you aren't going to be able to buy -anything-. If you don't believe that, then nothing personal, but you are being very naive.
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Re: Michael Weiss [sticky] [ In reply to ]
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Name a company you can support then. One that is going to give you the quality you want.

Shimano. Nope.

Campy. Nope.

SRAM. Nope.

Most bike companies. Nope.

Giro. Nope.

Bell. Nope.

Nike. Nope.

Adidas. Nope.

Unfortunately you're kind of left with mob rule or the mob courts. At some level most of the companies directly involved with triathlon and cycling and running are somehow and somewhere linked with athletes who have been convicted or otherwise shown to be doping.

I'm all for speaking with your dollars, it's just that if you're going to do it for Weiss' supporters, how far do you want it to go, and what equipment are you going to use?


Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | Cervelo | RokaWetsuits | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |
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Re: Michael Weiss [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Well in this case we know there is one “dog beater,” and it’s Weiss. Even if he promises he doesn’t do that any more, are you going to ask him to dog sit?

I still don’t follow the second chance in SPORT logic for a doper. He’s a nice guy? He’s sorry? Great. Let’s be friends and have a beer, but you don’t get to compete at the professional level again. The benefits of doping have been shown to last and get you to new levels. So what incentive is there for people to not dope to reach those new levels, say sorry, and get a second chance?


https://twitter.com/mungub
http://benmunguia.blogspot.com
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Re: Michael Weiss [hairypiernas] [ In reply to ]
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"I personally love the sport but i am of the opinion that doping in triathlon is the same as in other endurance sports(running, cycling...) and i bet that if testing was as rigorous in triathlon you would see more athletes caught way more often. I also find it hypocritical for the pro community to gang up on weiss and huethaller for example, because they don't have a likeable personality, physique or whatever it is, but they sock up to beth mcenzie (who is actually serving a doping ban) because she is likeable?! or is it because they want to participate in races she organizes? accept sponsorship from her clothing line? what is it? they embrace her in the community... talk about double standards oh boy. "

- I couldn't agree with you more on this. It makes me sick. I personally called out Beth McKenzie last October on twitter and got tons of hate messages from fellow pros defending her, it is complete BS. I don't understand why any athlete would want to support a doper's clothing line, it is insanity to me. I got shit on for speaking up for what I think is right. I don't care if I am in the pro triathlon "cool kids" clique, I'll say what I think is right and fair.
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Re: Michael Weiss [KirstyJahn] [ In reply to ]
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Well, you have one new fan here. Good on you for speaking out. I wish more would.

Accidentally consuming the “in” drug doesn’t sit well with me. And then to go back on her promise to not race at the professional level again is just sad. It was like she tried to say the right things to test the water and be forgiven, but had no intention of following through.


https://twitter.com/mungub
http://benmunguia.blogspot.com
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Re: Michael Weiss [mungub50] [ In reply to ]
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mungub50 wrote:
Well in this case we know there is one “dog beater,” and it’s Weiss. Even if he promises he doesn’t do that any more, are you going to ask him to dog sit?

I still don’t follow the second chance in SPORT logic for a doper. He’s a nice guy? He’s sorry? Great. Let’s be friends and have a beer, but you don’t get to compete at the professional level again. The benefits of doping have been shown to last and get you to new levels. So what incentive is there for people to not dope to reach those new levels, say sorry, and get a second chance?

fine. but then everyone who gets popped gets banned for life. fine with me. i've got no problem with that. but that means everyone. and that's really not what the anti-weiss crowd seems to want. my problem is not with banning weiss for life. my problem is with banning only weiss for life. and for only tweeting about him.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Michael Weiss [asianzone] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe if the roles were reversed and Weiss controlled the island house tri invites...
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Re: Michael Weiss [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, and I can understand that frustration. It’s like people have a level of doping they can accept and likability plays into that. Some of us are anti-dopers. We don’t discriminate :).


https://twitter.com/mungub
http://benmunguia.blogspot.com
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Re: Michael Weiss [mungub50] [ In reply to ]
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Take it up with WADA. Per the regs, he's served his time and is allowed to compete thereafter.

I'd imagine that the incentive to attempt to dope, hope nothing else goes wrong during the course of training/racing, win a bunch of stuff to make cash, and then sit out for anywhere from 2 to 4 years these days to live off of, and then hope that you maintained enough fitness/competitiveness from that doping period to then be able to come back and perform at a world-class level is pretty damn low.

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Re: Michael Weiss [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
Take it up with WADA. Per the regs, he's served his time and is allowed to compete thereafter.

I'd imagine that the incentive to attempt to dope, hope nothing else goes wrong during the course of training/racing, win a bunch of stuff to make cash, and then sit out for anywhere from 2 to 4 years these days to live off of, and then hope that you maintained enough fitness/competitiveness from that doping period to then be able to come back and perform at a world-class level is pretty damn low.

Without reference to any particular person, I'd imagine that the incentive for a pro to dope, given the probability of so many other things to go wrong, the difficulty of earning a living in this sport, the low risk of getting popped, and the lack of permanent ban is pretty damn high.
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Re: Michael Weiss [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
i'm not saying that we all should forget his bust. just, that there's a line somewhere between remembering and stalking and i don't know where it is but i get the sense we may be across it.

I get that sense too. For example: his run was great, but when you see that there was a 1:11, a 1:12 a 1:13 and a female ran a 1:18 you get a sense that the run was short. But people would rather blame it on repeated cheating?
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Re: Michael Weiss [KirstyJahn] [ In reply to ]
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KirstyJahn wrote:


- I couldn't agree with you more on this. It makes me sick. I personally called out Beth McKenzie last October on twitter and got tons of hate messages from fellow pros defending her, it is complete BS. I don't understand why any athlete would want to support a doper's clothing line, it is insanity to me. I got shit on for speaking up for what I think is right. I don't care if I am in the pro triathlon "cool kids" clique, I'll say what I think is right and fair.

You earned another fan in me as well. This should be a no excuses type of deal. Get busted, get treated the same. The onus is on the pro to not take illegal substances whether intentional or not.

Strava I Instagram I Team Every Man Jack I PM me for 25% off discount code at everymanjack.com
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