"Most of the bitching was done by Brett Sutton coached athletes. I don't know how that convicted child rapist should be complaining - I'm not even sure why he is still allowed to be coaching or involved in the sport anyway."

Again people - it might FEEL like an argument - but attacking the character of people making an argument IS NOT AN ARGUMENT. It's called an ad hominem logical fallacy - look it up.

The loophole has nothing to do with USADA/WADA. It is about a race being able to opt out of governing body control to allow a doper to race. So if it is not a USAT sanctioned race, who's triathlon races will it be held under? I suspect it will be USAT 's rules, just ignoring the ones relating banning dopers. What is the point of having rules, if you can pick and choose which ones to use when it suits.

Very awesome.

No the fact is he sells because people do not know the facts. When all the facts are public only someone in denial can believe He is not a cheat and one who had influence in others cheating for his gain.

Understood. :)

Doped, cheated, lied and banned. Or three of those anyway.

---

dr

Gotcha. Im not usually star struck but for you no problem. I will see if I can get him to sign a Livestrong jersey "kyle, to my #1 fan" and let him know he's got free entry into SM for life.

In all seriousness i signed up for the race because I had a free entry, it's not too far from home and it's a good weekend for me and the mrs to get away and see DC which we never have. I am a little miffed the race isn't USAT because it would have been my third of the year but I don't care that much bout rankings to pull out. This will be my third Rev3 race of the year and up until now I've been nothing but impressed. I haven't read the whole thread but I'm wondering if it isn't more the half full organization pulling the strings.

Anyway, now Im curious just how big a circus the race will be.

---

______________________

You think Lance is clean and the UCI too.

I think the wrong question is being asked of the UCI, ie did Lance ever test positive.

I think someone needs to ask if Lances hemacrit ever tested higher than 50?

The reason is the wiggle room the UCI has in what is a positive test. iIt sadly reminds me of Bill Clinton and Monica.

I think the UCI can say Lance did not test positive (even if he did test higher than 50) because he explained the high number to them (ha ha), the money likely helped  too. 

But the UCI can't say Lance didn't test higher than 50. Then the can of worms will open at the UCI and any coverup will open up.

gee, I thought the conspiracy theorist were just limited to aliens, 9-11 and the moon landing

and the witch hunt against Lance?

I actually have never said that there was a witch hunt but thanks for bringing this up! If by witch hunt you mean USADA was really primarily focused on one person then yes I guess you can it it that.

Once that the other sanctions are handed out it will be seen that it is no witch hunt.

Well I did say primary and not only person of interest. However, it takes no rocket scientist to figure out that he was the catalyst for the investigation. Its safe too assume that Bruynell and others were not the driving force here.

With or without the PED revelations, I think wearing a yellow band on your wrist has been out of fashion for a while. I'll admit that individual results may vary, but I sure don't meet people proudly wearing them everyday. They were everywhere back in 2004, and there must be millions of them gathering dust somewhere, but I can't remember the last time I saw anyone wearing one. I go to quite a few triathlons, Walmart, public schools, college football games, and fast food restaurants among other places, and it seems they have all disappeared.

---

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

Ok I'm admittedly a bit out of touch with my own thread because I had a big race yesterday so this may have been answered, but BDoughtie brought up an excellent question: if the race isn't USAT sanctioned, whose rules do they use? Who enforces the rules? Who handles disputes over rules violation? Can you legally dope and race? Massive can of worms seems to be wide open with none of you birds pecking at it.

Swim fins, drafting and that silly looking bike that suspends you from a harness while you run should all be fair play right?

---

__________________________

I tweet!

For all practical purposes they will use USAT rules. It may be interesting how they communicate that to racers though. I assume that USAT has some copywrites on there rules.

---

Styrrell

It's become painfully obvious that TriBeer lives in a far off land that is very different from the one the rest of us inhabit.

In conversation with Zack, I told him it sucks he's not on NCSU's team this year, because we could really use him for this now draft legal event. Kidding aside, as he noted, I'm curious as to what/how they will govern the rules? I'm assuming they just copy cat the rulebook essentially.

---

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Thats what I assume, but one way or the other they have to have something written down. It would be interesting to know how pissed USAT is about the LAracing thing. They may not care, they may secretly like the increased participation and publicity they get for tri, they may be pissed and want to punish REV3. If its the latter I wonder if a plagarism of the rules violates some sort of copywrite.

---

Styrrell

Easiest decision would be to not sanction rev3 races anymore.

Not sure if that would matter. But usat may think about that.

Lawsuit?

Who at usat would pay for that? rev3 by now is fleeced....

To bad rev3 gave in to big money. On the other hand, how they were ascending, it was predictable.

The interesting twist on all that is Rev3 isnt making any immediate money on this. All race services are donated, Lance isnt taking a fee either.

On face that's great for UCF, but in the long run, does Rev3 gain or lose customers? IMO this is the trial balloon that follows up Lances "Stay tuned" tweet when someone tweeted him at start of USADA arbitration process that he should start his own race series.

He rubs it in USADA's face, he donates to charity, and he gets to see what turnouts would be like at races he runs but arent sanctioned. Of course, it was mostly full of racers expecting sanctioned racing, but they'll account for that in their math too.

I think its called Free Enterprise!

Agreed, these companies are free to do what they want. My point was merely correcting that Rev3 gave into "big money" because they're not seeing a dime initially.

This entire thread has been an interesting read, and is further proof that Lance in and of himself is a lightning rod for controversy.

Perhaps everyone should go read Nicole Kelleher's blog post http://nicolekelleher.com/...s-with-his/#comments. She's a pro triathlete, and offeres really salient perspectives both on doping and Lance's involvement with Ulman.

Last week, Charlie Patton - owner of Rev3 - sent a note to the age group team (which I, like a few others who have posted here, am on) about the race. In it, Charlie explained his position on all this: "Take sport out of this. This is about young adults fighting cancer. The PR generated today has brought Ulman a level of exposure that is significant. If this is able to help just one more person fighting cancer, then i'm for it. Sometimes my business, Rev3 is about people and not about
triathlon."

I understand why folks are against Lance racing. And I don't disagree. But the real issue here is that he's working to raise money for Ulman Cancer Fund. That's it. Rev3 is donating time, talent and energy to Ulman. The thing we should all focus on here is raising money to fight cancer.

In my opinion, if you can't separate the concept of racing from working with a charity for advocacy and fundraising then we're collectively selling cancer victims short. I'm setting aside my personal thoughts about Lance as a cheater, and embracing his engagement in the Half Full because, at the end of the day, Ulman will benefit - and then by proxy, so will young adults with cancer.

And to me, that is what this is all about.

---

Joel | My Blog | Team Rev3 Tri | Twitter @TriMadness

If this is not about racing, not about ego, not about a big "f-you" to USADA, not about giving Armstrong a platform and an opportunity to rehabilite his reputation, etc., and only about raising money for a good cause, then I suspect there are a lot more efficient ways of raising that money.

But since suspended riders are now welcome, it would be interesting of others (Zajicek, Hamilton, etc.) registered. In addition to a cancer survivors field, they could have a banned riders field. After all, it would be for a good cause.