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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [theriad] [ In reply to ]
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theriad wrote:
I've coached a female athlete to a top ten finish in Hawaii and several athletes to make the national junior team in the late 90's. Did that make me an "elite coach", in my opinion no [..]

I agree 100%. In fact, I've seen several hacks achieve similar level of results.

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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [Paulo Sousa] [ In reply to ]
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Paulo Sousa wrote:
theriad wrote:
I've coached a female athlete to a top ten finish in Hawaii and several athletes to make the national junior team in the late 90's. Did that make me an "elite coach", in my opinion no [..]


I agree 100%. In fact, I've seen several hacks achieve similar level of results.

Honestly from what I've seen you are probably the biggest one so far. What have you accomplished as an "elite coach"? I've done better than you, no?
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [theriad] [ In reply to ]
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theriad wrote:
Paulo Sousa wrote:
theriad wrote:
I've coached a female athlete to a top ten finish in Hawaii and several athletes to make the national junior team in the late 90's. Did that make me an "elite coach", in my opinion no [..]


I agree 100%. In fact, I've seen several hacks achieve similar level of results.


Honestly from what I've seen you are probably the biggest one so far. What have you accomplished as an "elite coach"? I've done better than you, no?

For sure, anonymous trolls on the Internet are usually much better coaches than I am.

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The Triathlon Squad

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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Jordan, seriously, your arrogance is appalling. If you don't like the coaches at EN, you're well entitled to that opinion. If you think that they're doing their athletes a universal disservice by telling them that their time is better spent with their family for 6 months of the year than chasing 5-8 minutes of improvement, again, you're totally entitled to that opinion. But you insult literally hundreds of people who read this forum, and who patronize the sponsors that pay your salary, when you decide that your opinion gives you the right to attack them, and when you decide that somehow you're the only arbiter of what is right and what is wrong. Open your mind, dude, there's more than one way for people to achieve their goals in life. Maybe not everybody out there wants what you want...

M
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'tri or tri not, there is no du' - yoda
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [Paulo Sousa] [ In reply to ]
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Paulo Sousa wrote:
theriad wrote:
Paulo Sousa wrote:
theriad wrote:
I've coached a female athlete to a top ten finish in Hawaii and several athletes to make the national junior team in the late 90's. Did that make me an "elite coach", in my opinion no [..]


I agree 100%. In fact, I've seen several hacks achieve similar level of results.


Honestly from what I've seen you are probably the biggest one so far. What have you accomplished as an "elite coach"? I've done better than you, no?


For sure, anonymous trolls on the Internet are usually much better coaches than I am.

Derek Theriault
triathlon coach from 1994-1998


I have nothing to hide. Maybe you can post your results as a coach?
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [theriad] [ In reply to ]
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The marked difference is that I do not - on my website - make any sort of claim regarding my calibre as an athlete. In other words, you are certainly free to hold the opinion that I am not an elite because I have not competed in Hawaii, and you are free to hold the opinion that I am afraid to do so. But you wouldn't be making such a statement in opposition to any claim that I had made. That's why I do not - on Twitter, or Facebook, on my forum profile, on my website, or anywhere else - list myself as an "elite" or "professional." Because there are legions of pseudo-pros who do exactly that. Having a pro-card doesn't make you a professional.

Beyond, that, however, there is the simple fact that I have, in my wallet, a card issued by USAT that licenses me as an "Elite Triathlete." So, strictly speaking, I am in fact an Elite. That's just a true/false statement, which is different than calling yourself an elite coach because even USAT does not grant (yet...) the title of "Elite Coach." So it's not something that you can be simply by virtue of possessing a license. I.e., you can say that someone shouldn't be a doctor, but if they have an MD, they are. Likewise, maybe I shouldn't be an elite triathlete, but I have my license, so for now, I am. That same situation does not apply here.

As far as proving you are an elite coach, I'd say it's a little bit of a case of, "if you have to prove it, you aren't." Case in point. Here's another coach that lists himself as an "elite coach" - http://joelfilliol.blogspot.com/ He has coached athletes to a junior world championship, at least four world cup wins (sorry Joel, I can't remember them all...), an Olympic Silver medal, five major games (Olympics, 2xPanAms, 2xCommonwealth's), been hired by the most competitive high performance sporting program in the sport (TriGB), etc., etc. In other words, he's coached clearly elite athletes to clearly elite performances. Joel is an elite coach. That's easy to prove. The EN guys don't even have a legitimate palmares. They just have some testimonials from AG athletes...

Even more to your point, it is indeed hard to prove you are an elite coach. It's pretty easy to disprove such a claim though. If you've never coached a professional athlete at a world class level to a world class performance, you are NOT an elite coach.

If you are going to write that you are "recognized experts," "elite coaches," etc., then you ought to have some substance behind it. Otherwise, it's just talk. And there is far too much of that in this sport. And I don't feel bad about pointing it out where I see it.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [BT_DreamChaser] [ In reply to ]
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BT_DreamChaser wrote:
burnman wrote:
Rather than continuing the point-by-point analysis, I want to ask you a simple question. When you unclip from your bike pedals and slip into your running shoes, is the quality of the run you're about to perform greater than the quality of a stand alone run done at the same RPE? If you cannot answer that question with definitive "yes" then the discussion is over. I don't know of a single person that can complete a true training ride of any distance/duration (this excludes warm-up rides) and manage to follow it up with a run that is universally of a higher quality. It defies all logic.

The brick run is designed to train the transition of muscular response from cycling to running. That process takes a matter of minutes. Any running that you do beyond that brief adaptation period is completely diminished in value, assuming that the alternative is running on fresh legs. That is why I'm now going to advocate for brick sprinting as the new revolution in multisport training. Let us join together and milk the triathlon community of its disposable income. Silver bullets like this only come along once every ..... uhm ..... week or so ..... in triathlon :-)


The answer is absolutely yes.

No sarcasm here, seriously, but perhaps if you BRICK'd more in training you would understand this.

Haven't your Race times gotten better? Often this is a function of the body having more experience Swimming, Biking and Running. It's very logical. "The more you do something, the better you get at it." Again, no sarcasm, but this is an elementary principle.

And please don't sprint off the Bike, that's a really bad idea unless you've built up to that.

I'll avoid turning this into a pissing match and simply say that my avoidance of brick running and emphasis on high quality running has coincided with a distinct improvement over the field. I used to run bricks. I used to run a lot of bricks. I ran them hard. I ran them easy. I ran them because I was under the delusion that the "pounding heart" and "burning leg" sensations would help me muscle through them on race day. The simple fact is that you can't train yourself to avoid those sensations because they're an inevitable part of the race effort. It's a level of effort that you can only replicate when you're running at race-level quality. I could run at Z2 with the flu and suffer like I'm running at Z5. That doesn't translate to better Z5 running.

Regardless of your assertions, no one achieves greater running quality during a brick. If you lay up on your training ride, then you may possibly run in the ballpark of your potential, but under those conditions you've essentially defied the nature of a brick. Frankly, I shouldn't be opposing brick running. I should be advocating for it. As the general triathlon population increases its frequency and volume of brick running, I continue to get faster and faster relative to the field.

Now, if someone wants to discuss effective brick "running" as a very brief (5-7 minute), high-intensity (Z4-Z5) transition effort completed immediately after a respectable bike workout, then I'll gladly discuss in favor. Otherwise, I'm afraid that you're putting wasted miles on your shoes and on your legs.

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Ever consider that, grammatically, there's a diffference between an "Elite coach" and a Coach of Elite Athletes? I know you're an engineer who sees the world in very clear black and white, but I thought they also taught English at Princeton.

M
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'tri or tri not, there is no du' - yoda
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [phabio] [ In reply to ]
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You're right. I apologize to those people who want to spend their hard earned money on bad advice and/or who want to specifically avoid doing a simple and time-efficient thing that can help them improve their race performance.

To be clear, I am not saying that I am the arbiter of right and wrong. I am pointing out that there is direct evidence (from a real study run by a respected source - the AIS) that demonstrates that running off the bike is DEFINITIVELY different than running "on tired legs." And that, furthermore, that running off the bike in training mitigates the effect that this difference has on run performance.

In other words, I'm not saying it's my OPINION that the EN guys are wrong. I'm saying there is clear, scientific evidence that they are wrong. The fact that individuals who make their living as "coaches" are unaware of this information makes me question what exactly qualifies them to be a coach.

I never made ANY sort of valuation of training time vs. family time. I have no idea where you got that, but I've been on this forum long enough to know that you don't actually need to say anything even remotely close to something for people to remain convinced that you said it... In fact, given that bricks are - in general - more time efficient, I'd actually say that I'm encouraging people to spend more time with their family. And to spend their money on their kids/spouses rather than wasting it on EN's cookie cutter plans...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [phabio] [ In reply to ]
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phabio wrote:
Ever consider that, grammatically, there's a diffference between an "Elite coach" and a Coach of Elite Athletes? I know you're an engineer who sees the world in very clear black and white, but I thought they also taught English at Princeton.

Yes, the (major) grammatical difference is that, in the latter phrase, you have a prepositional phrase describing the word coach and in the former, you only use an adjective. While that may seem like a flippant reply, that's because you cannot be an elite coach if you do not (or - more specifically - have NEVER) coached elite athletes. Being a current coach is certainly not a requirement; e.g., my college rowing coach, who has over five medals from seven (IIRC) world championships and more national championships at the Div1 collegiate level than I can remember, is now a stay-at-home dad. But he is still, most certainly, an elite coach, even though the extent of his rowing coaching is occasionally working with the local high school team.

The word "elite" is becoming as meaningless, unfortunately, as the word "expert," or any other number of superlative terms. Excellence is now just resume filler. But that doesn't make it right. Let me ask you something. If you want to classify guys like the EN coaches as "elite," then how would you describe a coach like Renato Canova? Would you simply use the same word? Do you not think that basically renders the term meaningless?

If an elite coach doesn't (or, at least, hasn't) coached elite athletes to elite performances, then what in the hell is an elite coach?

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
You're right. I apologize to those people who want to spend their hard earned money on bad advice and/or who want to specifically avoid doing a simple and time-efficient thing that can help them improve their race performance.

To be clear, I am not saying that I am the arbiter of right and wrong. I am pointing out that there is direct evidence (from a real study run by a respected source - the AIS) that demonstrates that running off the bike is DEFINITIVELY different than running "on tired legs." And that, furthermore, that running off the bike in training mitigates the effect that this difference has on run performance.

In other words, I'm not saying it's my OPINION that the EN guys are wrong. I'm saying there is clear, scientific evidence that they are wrong. The fact that individuals who make their living as "coaches" are unaware of this information makes me question what exactly qualifies them to be a coach.

I never made ANY sort of valuation of training time vs. family time. I have no idea where you got that, but I've been on this forum long enough to know that you don't actually need to say anything even remotely close to something for people to remain convinced that you said it... In fact, given that bricks are - in general - more time efficient, I'd actually say that I'm encouraging people to spend more time with their family. And to spend their money on their kids/spouses rather than wasting it on EN's cookie cutter plans...

Jordan,
Any chance of a link to the study? Or a quick summary? How much time does the study suggest to run off the bike? Someone linked to a study earlier in the thread, is that the one you are discussing? It was from School of Biomedical and Sports Science, Edith Cowan University, Perth, Western Australia.
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder how many people have read this entire thread (as I have), and are still not swayed either way by the arguments; but have lost a measure of respect for some of the posters therein.



persequetur vestra metas furiose
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the thoughtful responses.

On the AIS study, it (and many others) have shown that running off the bike is different. I haven't seen any studies that show that execution of a training plan that incoporates brick running produces different results than execution of a training plan without brick runs. just because it is different doesn't mean it's trainable. That would be scientific evidence that they're wrong. Until then, we're all taking our best guess.

On the question of the definition of Elite, I'd suggest that any coach who is able to get the best out of the athletes they've chosen to service should be 'allowed' to hang a shingle with a superlative. Elite, expert, terrific, or otherwise doesn't really matter much to me. It's quite apparent that it matters a great deal to you, and I respect that. I wonder if the bike brand Elite bothers you to the same degree?

On the grammar, hats' off to you for a fine defense of Princeton's English department. Touche.

M
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'tri or tri not, there is no du' - yoda
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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That's very elitist of you. :)



1. (n.) elite
(often used with a pl. v.) the choice or best of a group, class, or the like.

2.  elite
(used with a pl. v.) persons of the wealthiest class.

3.  elite
a group of persons exercising authority within a larger group.

Couldn't they fit #3?

BB
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [TigerBlood] [ In reply to ]
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Because people aren't afraid to express their opinions and attempt to maintain/ensure a level of credibility and/or standards?

Doesn't seem like a reason to loss respect for someone.
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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And I completely agree, Joe was, is, and will always be an elite coach. God knows that I lost more shirts than I'd care to admit at his expense. But I also stand in awe of the coaching of someone like Stu Schmill and the job he did at MIT, putting them on the podium at the sprints in 1997. I don't know if he has any other elite palmares, but that was an elite performance as far as a season of coaching. Part of why I believe it's not just about elite performances from elite athletes.

M
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'tri or tri not, there is no du' - yoda
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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I was going to post something a few weeks ago about the benefits of running before the bike in terms of a brick workout, but I didn't because it just didn't seem race specific. I thought perhaps the run would mimic the swim in terms of a cardio workout and be beneficial to some extent. As a PE teacher, I have studied about the specificity principal in training and making training and practice more specific to the game or performance/race day. I have looked at how some forms of practice are useless because they are so far off from the actual sport itself. However, cardio workouts are different from basketball/volleyball workouts. In terms of triathlon and brick workouts, brick workouts are great in terms of mental preparation and confidence building, but they won't make us much faster than a balanced schedule of both brick and speed workouts. I remember doing my first triathlon and feeling for the first time what running on tired legs felt like. Had I done a brick workout or two, I would of been more prepared, more confident and probably faster.

Anyways, I think anytime you bike or run first or second its beneficial, but like the article suggests, you can't expect to run faster because you have done a few brick workouts instead of having many individual hard running or biking workouts. I think for begginner triathletes, brick workouts are going to be beneficial, while experienced triathletes whose bodies are already experienced and accustomed to the change from bike to run should leave brick workouts to a minimum and focus more on high quality speed workouts.

The question of course is can a run/swim brick workout improve swimming? Or a bike/swim workout? Is swimming when your legs are tired good for something?
I see that Simon Whitfield does a bike in the morning, a swim after that, and then a long run in the afternoon. So who really knows what makes a faster triathlete?
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [buddahbelly] [ In reply to ]
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buddahbelly wrote:
That's very elitist of you. :)

1. (n.) elite
(often used with a pl. v.) the choice or best of a group, class, or the like.

2. elite
(used with a pl. v.) persons of the wealthiest class.

3. elite
a group of persons exercising authority within a larger group.

I've occasionally been #1, never #2, and always #3, assuming that "exercising" is interchangeable with "abusing" :-)

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [phabio] [ In reply to ]
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phabio wrote:
On the AIS study, it (and many others) have shown that running off the bike is different. I haven't seen any studies that show that execution of a training plan that incoporates brick running produces different results than execution of a training plan without brick runs. just because it is different doesn't mean it's trainable. That would be scientific evidence that they're wrong. Until then, we're all taking our best guess.

Clearly I am late to this party. The problem with scientific evidence and/or doing a 'study' of training plans is that it simply won't work. Science, sports scientists, etc. are generally a step behind what 'works' in the coaching world and are generally playing catch up to prove why something works. And even still there are a ton of unanswered questions. You could do a test with a sample of 100 different athletes and give them the same training plan that includes bricks or doesn't, and you would get a variety of different results. Bricks would 'work' for some and not for others. Horses for courses. 'Coaching' is tuning a plan to the individual whether it is done online or in person, and the argument can be made the you can only do so much coaching in an online manner. Execution of a training plan that incorporates brick running compared to one that doesn't would likely lead to more questions than answers.

That is where just giving out a basic canned plan is not necessarily 'coaching'. Generally your average triathlete is going to get better by training on the swim, bike, and run of any kind. Add in some intensity and provided they can handle it without getting injured and they'll improve more. Repeat the same 20 weeks 2x a year and yeah, you'll probably continue to get better as the miles and years add up. There is only a certain amount of 'coaching' that can be done in the online world without seeing athletes.


Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [TigerBlood] [ In reply to ]
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TigerBlood wrote:
I wonder how many people have read this entire thread (as I have), and are still not swayed either way by the arguments; but have lost a measure of respect for some of the posters therein.

As I was finishing up reading through this thread, I was thinking of posting the same thing. I wish we had the "like" button already.

From this reader's perspective, Jordan's comment referring to EN as "hacks" is a negative reflection on his character.

It seems to me that that JR is more concerned about the fact that EN refers to themselves as "elite" rather than AG coaches. It's a lot like getting ruffled over a 70.3 athlete telling his buddies he's an ironman.

@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [tucktri] [ In reply to ]
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Here is an AIS study, it indicates that elites can handle bricks and implies that others do not.

Conclusion: Cycling does not adversely influence neuromuscular control or run performance in elite international triathletes. The preservation of neuromuscular control and performance during running after cycling is a unique feature of highly performing elite international triathletes and may be a reason for their success.


J. Bonacci1,2*  P. Saunders2  M. Alexander3  P. Blanch2  A. Chapman1,2  B. vicenzino1 1The University of Queensland  2Australian Institute of Sport  3La Trobe University


http://sma.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/634-SMA_ConferenceAbstracts_FINAL.pdf
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [tucktri] [ In reply to ]
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Does cycling effect motor coordination of the leg during running in elite triathletes?

Andrew R. Chapman, Bill Vicenzino, Peter Blanch, Steve Dowlan, Paul W. Hodges

//

I don't know if I have permission to repost the study. I was given it by a woman who was advising my wife when she was trying to make the Olympic team for Canada. So not sure about usage. This study is from AIS & University of Brisbane.

The general conclusions - and it's important to note that they were examining ELITE (!) triathletes (no discussion of what "elite" meant though) - were that:
1) there is a huge variance in how coordinated athletes are in running off the bike. I.e., some were very good, and the EMG analysis showed that they transferred from cycling-specific lower-leg muscle recruitment patterns to running-specific lower-leg muscle recruitment patterns almost immediately

2) for those that did NOT make the "switch" immediately, there was evidence of improvement as a result of targeted transition-run training. This is based off a comparison of the results of this study - which used elite athletes - with previous studies using non-elites that showed that elites demonstrated more rapid and complete changeover in muscle recruitment patterns; obviously some room here for bias, as it's possible to conclude that - at least looking only at this study and it's conclusions - that it wasn't the training, rather it was a predisposition to being able to effectively change that made these athletes elite. It's a bit of a chicken and egg. Are they elite because they naturally demonstrate a the ability to rapidly change recruitment? Or did they develop it? It's worth noting that, per #1, there was substantial variance in how quickly/completely changeover did occur.

Sample size was small, and obviously enormously biased based off self-selection. Only 16 athletes, and all of them falling into a small niche.

Looking at this in conjunction with other studies, it seems reasonable to conclude the running off the bike is a skill, and like most skills, some people have more natural aptitude for it than others but that those who do not have natural aptitude can improve it through practice.

Given the admitted variance in skill level, I think it'd be foolish (in reply to another poster) to try to estimate "time savings" from doing transition runs vs. not doing them. It's like swimming in a wetsuit in training sometimes. How much is it worth, time wise? I dunno. Some people are very comfortable just getting in their wetsuit and swimming. But *in my experience,* a wetsuit changes your stroke enough - or should change it if you want to swim in your wetsuit most effectively - and certainly loads your shoulders more vs. non-wetsuit swimming that it's worth spending time swimming in your wetsuit besides just on race day. The obvious similarity to transition running (and riding the TT bike, etc) applies - the more overall experience you have, the less important it becomes. I.e., Andy Potts needs less practice in his wetsuit than an average AG athlete. And Macca, who has been racing for 20+ years, probably needs even less.

It's important, however, to recognize when something is a skill - like running off the bike - because it's makes it easier to understand why the more you have done it, the less you need to do it, and also why it is important to practice it - because it's fundamentally different (as the above study shows) than just running (at least in certain facets).

I'd say this is the huge fallacy that the EN coaches might be making in how they came to their faulty conclusion. They look over a large "data set" of past performances and make conclusions only based on that data set and apply them universally. I.e., it would be illogical to make training advice for new triathletes based off the experiences of seasoned triathletes if you recognized appropriately that transition running is a skill. In other words, the very reason that you might conclude that it makes no difference if someone runs off the bike or not is because that person (or persons) has done so much running off the bike over the course of their career. The absence of this rather glaringly (to me) obvious factor in the EN blog post is striking. It's folly to universally downplay the benefit of bricks for triathletes who have very little experience running off the bike because of "data" gathered that could easily be skewed by a significant presence of athletes with a large amount of transition run experience. Given that EN is not exactly a newbie-oriented site/group, I think that's HIGHLY likely.

It's much more appropriate - though hardly revolutionary - to simply say something along the lines of "frequency of transition runs offers diminishing returns," and to suggest that, after you've been doing the sport for a while, it might be time to reconsider the frequency of bricks. That's a far cry from the very black-and-white prescription which they wrote on the blog that advises never doing t-runs. And people accused me of being black and white...

Head on over to Let'sRun and read Canova's description of his athlete's training leading into the World Champs for some insight into just how "gray" training actually is.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [Paulo Sousa] [ In reply to ]
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Paulo Sousa wrote:
For sure, anonymous trolls on the Internet are usually much better coaches than I am.

Owned.

___________________________________________________________

"A wise man once told me......God doesn't call the equipped, he equips the called."
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [Borden] [ In reply to ]
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Borden wrote:
TigerBlood wrote:
I wonder how many people have read this entire thread (as I have), and are still not swayed either way by the arguments; but have lost a measure of respect for some of the posters therein.

As I was finishing up reading through this thread, I was thinking of posting the same thing. I wish we had the "like" button already.

From this reader's perspective, Jordan's comment referring to EN as "hacks" is a negative reflection on his character.

It seems to me that that JR is more concerned about the fact that EN refers to themselves as "elite" rather than AG coaches. It's a lot like getting ruffled over a 70.3 athlete telling his buddies he's an ironman.

What I primarily object to is the advice itself. The fact that such advice is being given out by someone claiming to be an "elite" coach makes it even worse.

To reference your example, I'm taking issue because people are saying they're triathletes because in their lifetime they have gone for a swim, and have ridden a bike, and have run. That's just incorrect. Now, if that person(s) said they did an Ironman, I would find that even more egregiously incorrect.

It's like that Crossfit dude that said he could make Macca into a faster triathlete, but that he'd need something like a year to teach him how to actually move properly first or some such nonsense. I didn't pay much mind to that, because the guy obviously was talking out of his ass. But with EN, there is an - unfortunately - large cult following that is shelling out good money for bad advice from unqualified individuals purporting to be something they aren't without being obviously not credible. That, to me, is more damaging than an obvious charlatan.

In other words, if you give your money to some homeless guy in a rags who claims to be a hedge fund manager, you are an idiot. If you give it to some con man in a three piece suit with a bunch of fancy presentations and what appear to be credentials, well then, I'd say somewhat shame on you for not doing due diligence, but more blame on him.

The following is just bad - and incorrect - advice, especially when given without ANY sort of qualifier:

- In fact, [brick workouts] should be entirely avoided unless your daily schedule requires you combine your bike and run workouts!

- A run off the bike is nothing more than another run on tired legs.

Those two items are simply incorrect. The latter is totally untrue. The former is untrue when given as general and universal advice.

It is THAT which I take issue with. The fact that such advice is given by someone (or someones) that calls himself an elite coach makes it even worse, but it's by no means the primary source of my irritation...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Interesting article against brick workouts [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
It's much more appropriate - though hardly revolutionary - to simply say something along the lines of "frequency of transition runs offers diminishing returns," and to suggest that, after you've been doing the sport for a while, it might be time to reconsider the frequency of bricks.

Jordan,
No offense but did you conveniently skip over this part of Rich's article?

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There is No Magical Run-Off-the-Bike Fitness
A run off the bike is nothing more than another run on tired legs. Before we go further, let’s be clear that there is some value to running off the bike on tired legs:
  • Mental Value: Feel it, taste it, experience it so that your first experience with running off the bike isn’t on race day.
  • Pacing Value: Specifically, the disconnect between Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE) and Pace. You’ve just been pedaling a bike for hours and now you are running. It’s very common for you to feel like you’re running at Pace X, only to actually be running at Pace Y. Generally, Y is faster than X and, because everyone around you is running too fast, you are getting a lot of feedback that Y is the correct pace, that you’re not running fast enough and that X, the slower (correct!) pace, is wayyy too slow! A brick run will help you experience this disconnect and build your confidence to run your pace vs the pace that everyone else is running in the first critical miles on race day.

But once you get these two points above…you get it. Continuing to do brick after brick after these lessons have been learned is the training equivalent of hammering a nail that’s already in the wall: easy to do yet causes peripheral damage and yields minimal results. As coaches, we’ve learned that the key to becoming a faster runner is to create opportunities for you to run faster on fresher legs.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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