What I object to is people who think that the WTC product is inherently better. There's nothing better about it except that which is attached to it by the racer. Second, Kona is just a race. There's nothing magical about it except you can't just sign up for it. It's not a true world championship race. And finally, personally I have no clue about Challenge other than what a few people have told me. I was actually referring to the Rev3 product when I said there was a friendlier organization.

If you like WTC, by all means race their races. But you're not getting an intrinsically superior product. And good luck in that Kona chase in 2013. Seriously.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

Which course map is correct? The swim map indicates leaving T1 in one direction while the bike map indicates leaving T1 in the opposite direction.

drop them a note and ask. I looked at the maps you're talking about and it would seem be rather contradictory North does not equal south. They might actually answer but at the very least they'd change the maps!

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

The WTC is contracting in Europe, 1x full, 2x halfs, are gone next year, Aisa is a wtc desert, they have now pulled the asia pacific 70.3 championship from Phuket, and moved it to NZ, in North America IM St George is now a70.3, IMNY is gone.....IM in San Diego ?...you would think that would be a slam dunk but it has never happened, and never will (politics, and course problems), and now Challenge has arrived in North America, with less demands placed on host cities (in fact the cites have a huge say in what happens), decision time is coming for the WTC, they are near to saturation point especially in the 140.6 market...competitors are moving in (rev3 & Hits in addition to Challenge) all offering promises of a better athlete experience.......Can WTC change, do they think they need to change ?......a lot of people think they have already jumped the shark, there is certainly more criticism of WTC and their events than ever before.......time will tell, but all is not "fine" in the WTC world.....Still have a lot of great events, still have Kona, but this is a corporation that needs to make serious money for its investors, and like most business things can go sour in a real hurry if you lose track of what your customers actually want.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
If you run long enough....something is bound to happen

is whistler sold out yet?

Been on the road traveling for the last 16 hours....so did it sell out while I was out of internet communication.

OK....other answers for this thread...I too don't believe that it is 8000 feet total. I have ridden back from Pemberton to Whistler and unless they put T2 at the top of the Whistler ski hill, I'd be suprised if the entire course adds up to more than 6000. I just used the 8000 statement because that is what someone had posted in this thread! In any case, the course should be selective enough that every athlete gets the result they are trained for.

For the person saying that they prefer to drive to a race, fully understandable, but if you can drive to Arizona, there is a good chance that you probably drive to St. George and St. George was not exactly selling out. As for "international travel" to Canada, I thought that the US had already annexed Canada as the 51st state and was exploiting us for our raw materials before China takes this place over totally. In any case, flying to Canada is really not any different that flying to anywhere in the US. You just have to show your passport once and that's it. Once you are hear in Canada, you don't even need to use Canadian money, just use your credit card. I can think of few places that don't take credit card (I do the opposite when I go to the US and never use cash).

I asked them via email and they said the bike map is correct. I don't know why they won't correct the swim map.

I thought that the US had already annexed Canada as the 51st state and was exploiting us for our raw materials before China takes this place over totally
_______

That's funny .... we couldn't afford to annex you to the US because we're BROKE ...maybe Canada wants to annex us as a new province before China owns us. The US isn't all that bad ... we've got lots of hockey teams!

Dave:-)

still open. and here is a link ST to register if you want.

http://www.ironman.com/...r.aspx#axzz2AnRdsB4y

Reading that bike profile, shit I might attend now. Right up my alley.

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@rhyspencer

don't bring up hockey to Canadians right now LOL

"Sharkgu" posted a good thread about the whistler course from his garmin data. He said around 4500 feet or similar to the old IMC, and about 1000 feet less than IM CDA. What I would call an average or moderate course. I lived in whistler for 8 years although I haven't rode the new callahan hill it's only about 1000 feet of climbing (a good climb but doesn't add great deal to the overall).

I don't think this is even close to 5000 feet but I guess I'll have to wait until spring to find out (or Strava it in my car and really piss some people off ;)

The good thing about this course is that the bigger hill comes early to space people out, I agree that this course is selective early and there fore should be a little bit "cleaner" than the old IMC

I signed up this morning with my brother in law. Still open as far as I know. Who knows where they will cap it.

Why do you keep trying to make a fact out of something that is clearly just an opinion? Kona isn't a true world championship? Define "true." Kona is just a race (in your mind). Rev3 is a friendlier org (in your mind). These are opinions, not facts.

You need to get over the *fact* that there are people out there who are perfectly content with what WTC has offer today. I have no problem with the people out there who are perfectly content with what Challenge or Rev3 have to offer them. Great!! Everyone is happy. Why do you have to belittle others because they're happy with choices you disagree with?

Kona is more like a league championship. Kind of like MLB/NBA or NFL chamions declaring themsleves world champions when they are really league champions. A real world championship would mean that anyone who can perform at a certain standard on a certified course should be able to compete.

Kona is more like a league championship. Kind of like MLB/NBA or NFL chamions declaring themsleves world champions when they are really league champions. A real world championship would mean that anyone who can perform at a certain standard on a certified course should be able to compete.


Fair enough. But let's be realistic here… we're talking about IM. It's not a big sport. I think what we have in place today, given the size of the sport and how fast it's growing, is pretty damn good. Could it be better? No doubt. It can always be better. I think the addition of Rev3, Challenge and hopefully some others, maybe we'll get there one day.

I've done 16 IMs. I've been pretty consistent at getting top 10 in my AG but have never been top 50 in my AG at Kona (5x). Clearly the talent at Kona is pretty damn exceptional.

Does anyone actually know how close we are to a sellout?

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Supported by Compressport Canada | F2C Nutrition | Element | Argon 18 | 4iiii Innovations | Read my Blog

Well that's even worse than having conflicting maps up. You'd think they'd at least put a simple note up with the correct information on it even if they didn't want to change the T1 exit depiction on the swim map.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

I agree. Calling it a world championship doesn't make it so. Then again it is called "The Ironman World Championship." Maybe critical reading skills are need on my part. ;)

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

OK, here's the certain standard for you......show up to any of 30 Ironman races around the world, finish 1st or 2nd in your AG and you get to race for the world championship. Seems pretty legit to me...............

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

depends upon what your definition of Ironman is. Seriously. If you define "Ironman" , in reference to triathlon events, as a brand name then you can easily argue that the race is legitimately an Ironman (brand) World Championship. If, on the other hand, you think of any 140.6 race as an Ironman race regardless of who puts it on then it's not. It's a Ironman Brand Championship race and nothing else. I'm not trying to split hairs nor being derogatory towards the Kona race, I happened to have enjoyed my races here (for the most part).

And be any of that as it may, Ironman Canada (whistler) will have slots. Challenge Penticton will not. And neither will sell out anytime soon.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

True world championship has NF' s selecting teams/athletes.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

until hawaii find a way to not send 1000 americain at the ''world championship'', it wont be a legit one. At least for the age group ranking. it s simply a usa race and they self proclaim world championship. The usa does this a lot... it s always hillarious to hear baseball player been ''world champion'' and super bowl been the world championship of football when only one freaking country take part in it!!!!!

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

TriTrev wrote:

The WTC is contracting in Europe, 1x full, 2x halfs, are gone next year,

Sure, and how many do they still have? How many of those sell out? The answer is that they currently have 11 HIM and 8 full distance, 4 of which have already sold out. Challenge? How many of their events sell out? Scrolling through their web page shows only 11 events in total, many with barely 1000 participants.

TriTrev wrote:

isa is a wtc desert, they have now pulled the asia pacific 70.3 championship from Phuket, and moved it to NZ,

So? They've got 10 HIM on their website, and their 5 full distance have one in NZ and the rest in Australia. Didn't Challenge have a race in Australia, what ever happened to that? Who else has races in Asia? Maybe some day Challenge will try in Thailand.

TriTrev wrote:

n North America IM St George is now a70.3, IMNY is gone.....

Again, so what? And what is wrong with your keyboard.........are you on your period.........? If you are trying to write an ellipsis you just need three dots. WTC still has 13 full distance races in NA, Challenge has yet to put on 1. Why is that? Hey, maybe Challenge can try to run a race in St George, and use their super magic abilities to change the weather.

TriTrev wrote:

IM in San Diego ?...you would think that would be a slam dunk but it has never happened, and never will (politics, and course problems), and now Challenge has arrived in North America,

Have they? IMC sold out every year for how many of the past years. Challenge Penticton barely has 1000 participants and that was before WTC announced Whistler.

Do you mean from fewer participants?

They can make all kinds of promises, but it seems no one cares. HITS races don't sell out either. If "better athlete experience" was important you'd think those races would be more popular. And again, you bring up this absurd notion of market saturation, which seems to be based on not selling out. If the new IMC has 2900 participants instead of 3000 is that a failure? If the market was so close to saturation that this tipped the balance, why would Challenge show up in an already tapped out market? Why not expand into Asia, Africa, or South America?

Jumped the shark? Are they a low budget tv show or an organization hosting races? I'm glad you've found a little cause to rally against, but frankly it doesn't matter how many losers on the internet like to bitch and moan. Thousands of people are willing to fork over $700 or more for Ironman branded races, Challenge can't say the same thing, at most they might get 1000--even with relays. Challenge doesn't have people criticizing them because no one gives a shit.


Looks like they have a pretty firm grasp on what customers want and continue to provide it. Also looks like they don't give a shit about winy little bitches that aren't going to participate in their races. If you want wave starts, relays, and someone to hold your hand going up a hill don't bother with Ironman, someone else is willing to take your spot.

The Challenge Race was in cairns. WTC bought the producer of that race, most likely to try and squash the attempt to expand into Australia. The fact of the matter is, Asia is a wasteland for WTC's full distance races these days. Last i checked Australia and NZ were not part of Asia. Travel wise it's worse for most residents of Asia than telling someone on the East Coast of the United States that there are WTC full distance races in Europe, go there.

Only time will tell whether the Challenge foray into North America is successful. But as for numbers you can spout out all you want but nobody knows just where either of those races are in relation to total capacity. And neither will sell out for quite some time.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"