Tourist town aside, I have to say that the experience of racing and spectating Kona is amazing--whether you like or dislike the WTC brand. You might change your mind after you race your first 140.6.

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leslie myers
http://www.foodsensenow.com

I see the IMC website has new course maps up now but they still show bikes going different directions coming out of T1 on the swim & bike map. The bike map is correct.

Hoping to make Wanaka in 2014 - I'm not into racing the Hawaiian tourist trap, ever - I'm an age grouper and smart enough to have accepted that and the fact that "Ironman" is nothing more than a "brand".


I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding why Ironman means different things to different people (AGer or not). So, apparently you're not smart enough because what you state is not a fact. Just because it's nothing more than a brand to you doesn't mean it's nothing more than a brand to everyone. And since you've obviously never raced Kona, how do you know it's like "racing the Hawaiian tourist trap"?

Easy decision. MT.

Thanks for your post. Kona is a ton more than just a tourist trip. Obviously the person who posted that has some of the animosity we often see here on ST. But he also claimed he is "smart enough",but. To me I don't think it requires smarts to understand why Kona is good or not.

It seems to me that in general those who have been fortunate enough to race there value the experience, while many who have not either don't have that view or can't make the leap of faith that others may like it. It is totally understandable that wihr various WTC shenanigans worldwide but it is hard to believe that overall the Kona experience really can be great trip.

I think this all pretty much seals the fate on any other IM in North America. It will certainly sell out eventually, but the myth of thousands of ironman hopefuls shut out by immediate sell outs is over. We now pretty much know the size of the market.

And that is a GOOD thing. I don't mind being beaten to the finish line by a faster racer but I don't like being beaten to the sign up by a faster keyboarder.

Do we? Looking through the list of events at ironman.com there are only three NA races still open: Texas, Louisville, and Whistler. It's true that some races aren't selling out instantly, but NY did, Tahoe did, I think Madison sold out pretty quick. IMC did sell out last year but it took a few days. And after they sell out WTC continues to sell charity slots at twice the entry price. [pink]imagine if they had relays[/pink]

I don't know what WTC considers as a break even point, but it sure looks like they could keep adding events and keep getting participants. Ultimately the limiting factor is time, since the event needs to be on a weekend, between June and Sept. Most of those days are already taken, many have been taken twice.

And don't forget that in addition to the 140.6 events WTC is putting on and ever growing number of 70.3s, many of which will sell out.

I'm pretty sure WTC could add another event on the West Coast, San Diego is an obvious choice, but Portland would be a good spot if there is a break in the weather. The East Coast could probably support 4 more events.

Actually what he said is a fact. Ironman is just a brand. If you want to attach other meaning to to it, then go right ahead, there's not a thing wrong with that and you'll make the owners of WTC rather happy. Just be aware that what you've attached to the Ironman brand is your doing and neither the doing of somebody else nor anything that is inherent in the IM product.

They are just a brand of races and the athlete experience doesn't justify the mystique that some people have attached to it. They have competition that's hungrier, friendlier and that imo provides a better value for your money in many cases. So go get Mike Riley to say you're an Ironman. I hope it's worth the premium.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

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Brands get recognized because they provide what many feel is superior product and service .... and consumers agree readily to pay more in many cases because they get what they want. I think Starbucks coffee falls into that category as well ;-)

Dave

I think you nailed it. I had a friend that had his own furnace install company. For fun I went out with him on a service call one evening. We were heading into one of the more affluent parts of town. He said typically when going there most contractors tack on another 10 to 15%, because those people expect to pay more. They associate higher costs with quality, whether they actually receive quality service or not. In fact that night he was snickering, because he was going in to fix a different contractors screw up.

I don't disagree at all. I personally avoid Starbucks out here unless I have visitors who insist on meeting me there (I'd rather go to Menehune's at the pier) or if I'm on a ride out to the resorts.

For the record I was thinking of the Rev3 races in comparison to WTC's IM brand not Challenge. I've been to the Rev3's but only watched a Challenge race.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

Just replying to this thread......does anyone know how close this is to selling out? Marc Roy are you reading?

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I don't know how close it is ... hopefully Marc Roy will tell us.
I thought it would fill rapidly as its a great site ..... but IMTahoe took a lot of west coast US people that would have done IMC otherwise and IMMT no doubt pulled a lot of Canada. By my recollection, the old IMC site stayed open online for quite a while before it filled last year. It will fill soon .. just not as quickly as we thought! I planned on signing up myself .... but will have to wait til 2014 due to my schedule(bummer!)

Dave

I personally don't think it will sell out, I think a lot of US people (and ironman hardcores) on the Westcoast will go down but people around (BC) have either suck with Penticton or sign up for Coeur D'alene. (which is sold out, earlier then normal...I think/but not sure).

They did a nice job of dressing it up with the 100 spots and money for the pros, which might make it a more competitive race, more so then a bucket list race for people around BC.


I'm just going off what I'm hearing, nothing really factual.

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http://www.nathanveldhoen.com
http://twitter.com/NateVeldhoen

Actually what he said is a fact. Ironman is just a brand. If you want to attach other meaning to to it, then go right ahead, there's not a thing wrong with that and you'll make the owners of WTC rather happy. Just be aware that what you've attached to the Ironman brand is your doing and neither the doing of somebody else nor anything that is inherent in the IM product.

They are just a brand of races and the athlete experience doesn't justify the mystique that some people have attached to it. They have competition that's hungrier, friendlier and that imo provides a better value for your money in many cases. So go get Mike Riley to say you're an Ironman. I hope it's worth the premium.


Wow, the hypocrisy in your statements above is amazing. People like you just don't get it. To justify your own opinion, as you clearly stated in your second paragraph, you have to chastise those of us who feel WTC is offering a perfectly good experience with the potential reward of going to Kona. You have no proof that Challenge will offer a better experience. You only have an opinion just like I have an opinion. Get over yourself and stop making ridiculous claims that your opinion is somehow so special and unique that it can only be identified as a fact.

Pretty sure IMCDA was a slower sell out then past years. Not by much, though.

What will be interesting is when the ironmans in Florida and Arizona sell out instantly....which will once again prove that we triathletes want draft fest races where we can brag about fast times.....and Whistler with 8000 feet of climbing on the bike will remain open

and Whistler with 8000 feet of climbing on the bike will remain open


Is it really 8k feet of climbing? I saw a profile somewhere (can't seem to find it right now) that said it was somewhere around 4.4k feet of climbing. The profile looked official from the web site but I don't see it up there at the moment.

Here it is:

http://www.ironman.com/...b81211e93bc917e.ashx

Or, maybe I sign up for a race I can drive to and not have to worry about international travel.............

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Ouch! Last 35Km is uphill. That will make for interesting bike strategy.

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Peter Solymosi
The Tri Bike Fit Studio
Vernon, BC

someone else posted this link which indicates 8,000 + feet of elevation gain

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1806049

I would be interestedin hearing other people's thoughts on the reasons for the differences between the official profile you referenced and the profile as indicated in the above link.

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Grant

Ok. All you have to do is a rough estimate walk thru of the different low and high elevation points on this profile and there's no way it adds up to 8k feet of climbing. I just did it and my rough estimate would be between 4 and 5k feet.

Actually last 35K is about 15K of climbing and then 20K of headwind.

I've ridden up Callaghan and also to Pemberton several times and no way there is 8000ft of climbing. 4 -5 sounds about right.