Really??? Other than Syria, who cares what country they are based in? The point is, both companies are doing business all over the world and both are bringing athletes together from all around the world. I'm more interested in things like destination, course, volunteer support, community support etc. If nothing else the competition from Challenge will force the WTC to keep prices down.


Yes, I care. Supporting US companies helps the US economy. Every little bit counts. Like I said, *until* they prove to me they can offer a competitive service, I'm sticking with WTC.

Prices… Sigh… People's perspective on this is wrong, imho. If you look at how much the average athlete spends on the sport (e.g., wetsuit, bike, maintenance, components, shoes, nutrition and so much more) and the fact that we take many months, even a year, to train for an IM, then $600 - 700 is just not that much in the big picture. The recurring costs for things like running shoes, for example, amount to a lot than people think.

People want to bitch without good hard evidence and WTC has a target on its back for obvious reasons. I'm a "prove it to me" or "show me the evidence" kind of guy.

I guess that meens your doing Whistler & not Penticton. Me too. Either way the economies that we're really helping are those of a couple of towns in BC, Canada. As a Canadian we appreciate the dollars coming in from the US, Germany or wherever.

Seriously? hmm, good to know! I paid $680 with the chip @ Penticton. the fee was up front except for the niggly little $5 chip fee.

Most of us love to make money, some are happy with what they have, some want some more....some want it all.........make by hard work = great, good for you......make by greed & indifference = not so great.

We, the sport of Triathlon has always been "welcome all".......we were inclusive, it was and is the soul of the sport....a sport that was never based on the amount of money someone had, or how much money could be extracted from an athlete.......this is not an "old. tired. argument". , it is about the soul of triathlon........Just say "I don't care" would seem to be more valid.... but there are so many people that are concerned with where this sport is going, especially the way the WTC is being run, and what it is doing to the sports future.

Not sorry that I care.

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If you run long enough....something is bound to happen

I guess that meens your doing Whistler & not Penticton. Me too. Either way the economies that we're really helping are those of a couple of towns in BC, Canada. As a Canadian we appreciate the dollars coming in from the US, Germany or wherever.


Yes. And I'm more than happy to help the Canadian economy. You do supply us with the largest amount of crude oil. ;-)

If you really believe that, then why did you race in Penticton for so many years instead of racing at Coeur D'Alene?

And if you really believe that then surely it must apply to other countries as well and therefore you must be supportive of Penticton's choice to keep ownership and profits from its the race in the local community.

I was signed up for IMMT...prefer Whistler 100% of the time, canceled IMMT; got my measly $150 back as I consider it sunk cost...#IMWhistler!

Still not sold out yet and it's been almost 24 hours since openeing to everyone (after the the 2 days of priority registration). Interesating that 100 AG Kona slots is not as valuable as maybe they think.

Or, is it that it's too close to Kona?
Or, is it that the race is $725ish US?
Or, is the field limit 5000? (kidding, have no clue what they are allowing).
Or, are there way too many people absorbed by Challenge Penticton?
Or, is it that age groupers are being tested now, so 20% of IM athletes are not signing up for IMs anymore :)

Speculate...

No reasonable person faults WTC for wanting to make a profit.

But their business model requires the use of volunteer labour to do so. Volunteer labour that is in general drawn from the communities in which they operate and in greater proportion from supporters of and participants in the sport of triathlon. One would think that an organization that derives it profit from the good faith efforts of the communities where they function would demonstrate a reciprocal imperative to act in the best interest of those communities. And not just the business communities (which admittedly are helped by the influx of participants) but the well being of the sport of triathlon from which their business opportunity is ultimately derived. But then I'm Canadian and we are a bunch of socialists.

If WTC would rather pursue profit without the burden of the commensurate responsibility and expectation that their business model presents, the solution is simple: Make the volunteers paid staff. Until they do so, they operate under a social contract that commands they pursue more than just a pure profit motive.

Likewise, I know of 3 of us who were signed up for Tahoe and decided instead to race Whistler.

Last night I was telling my wife about all the hype around Whistler...I think she was half expecting me to say that I'm cancelling Tremblant and we're heading to Whistler. I think I would have done that, but I'm going to Vegas 2 weeks after Whistler. Tremblant is a 100 min drive from home.

Yes, distance was a big issue. It's only a 4 hr drive for us now (which is a huge plus with 2 kids).

Even with all other considerations, that's a hit to the pocket book. I don't do IMs a lot anyway because of the cost, but changing my mind, in this case, would seem like throwing away $600. When you include the amount of the new entry fee, you're basically paying $1300 for a race. Ouch.

If you really believe that, then why did you race in Penticton for so many years instead of racing at Coeur D'Alene?

And if you really believe that then surely it must apply to other countries as well and therefore you must be supportive of Penticton's choice to keep ownership and profits from its the race in the local community.


Because I don't make single-threaded decisions (as my entire paragraph implied). Btw, I started IM by racing CDA 2x ('04 and '06). I didn't enjoy it near as much as I enjoyed IMC in '05.

I can't support Penticton in something they never articulated to me as an athlete. Did Penticton ever provide evidence to us that Challenge was a better economic choice for them?

EDIT: From all of the inside information I received, my conclusion is that Penticton made a political decision, not an economic one.

For those who have been to Placid and Tremblant in the past two years or so (since Placid's roads have really fallen into disrepair since 2010) please rate the Whistler Road Conditions on a scale of 1 (Placid 2012) to 10 (Tremblant 2012).

Are normal wind conditions on the ride back to W from P similar to those that we expierenced on the return ride on 117 in Tremblant?

Still not sold out yet and it's been almost 24 hours since openeing to everyone (after the the 2 days of priority registration). Interesating that 100 AG Kona slots is not as valuable as maybe they think.

Or, is it that it's too close to Kona?
Or, is it that the race is $725ish US?
Or, is the field limit 5000? (kidding, have no clue what they are allowing).
Or, are there way too many people absorbed by Challenge Penticton?
Or, is it that age groupers are being tested now, so 20% of IM athletes are not signing up for IMs anymore :)

Speculate…

Timing is bad, imho. Most everyone felt they had to commit to an IM by October. Even I signed up for IMCDA because I felt I couldn't wait until mid October to find out about IMC. I still signed up for IMC but that's only because they chose Whistler. I wouldn't have signed up if they had chosen Kelowna.

Registration still open as of 5 minutes ago - I'm in for IMC #3!

We have good friends that just bought a place in Pemberton. They'll find out at a wedding this weekend to expect house guests in August... ;-)

Can you point me to one series (Hits, Challenge, Rev3) that pays volunteers?

Fine, let them pay volunteers, but nobody will race because the fees are too high.

Not a very good argument.

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I *heart* weak, dumb ass people...

Serious question, curious to understand your stance on this, and perhaps you have access to facts that I do not -

How specifically might they have articulated their position to you? I mean, it is not like they had access to the WTC email contact list so they could send out a statement to previous IMC athletes. Though a single exhaustive explanation is hard to come by, there have been many articles in local news sources over the last few weeks outlining Penticton's position in bits and pieces. Just one example:
http://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/news/171246751.html

On the surface, given a sufficient number of athletes will commit (admittedly still a big question mark), it looks like a better deal for Penticton. What information have you been given that would suggest I should not trust the position as outlined in the local media? What do you know that the rest of us do not that leads you to conclude this is an act of politics rather than economics?

I think the late announcement is part of it, but also the addition of Ironman Tahoe- that addition took up a big chunk of late summer participants- I signed up for Whistler because I didn't get into Tahoe

None do. That is precisely my point. Thanks for conceding it.

These events (WTC, Rev3, Challenge, or any local RD) run their events based on the good will of the host communities, and the parties all have mutually aligned interests beyond maximizing the profit of the organizer. Each party needs the other. No social contract, no event.

- organizers want to keep costs low and make a profit
- athletes want low race fees and actions that benefit the sport
- local businesses and volunteers want some sort of benefits to their communities

None can be achieved with out the reciprocity of the others. Which means none can be maximized at the expense of any other. Within that arrangement there is room to both pursue profit and act in the best interest the athletes, host communities and the sport of triathlon.

Organization: Tremblant (they have Marc Roy....Whistler is yet to happen)

-----> Then technically, while I understand Marc Roy did a fantastic job @ Tremblant, you cannot give the win to Tremblant until Whistler happens!

Fred.

Fred, you are in the technology business. Customers always give the win to real product....at least until the vaporware materializes into reality. At this time next year, we can have a head to head comparison! Pretty sure Whistler will turn out to be a great event.

General Comment to this thread.....I hope I am totally wrong. I thought Whistler would sell out in 48 hours. I'd be really happy if it stayed open for 2 months. Not because I want to sign up, because I have been having a debate with WTC about the size of the triathlon market. I think there is room for both Whistler and Penticton....add to that Tahoe and CDA.

It might just take longer for everything to sell out. Perhaps even if Challenge Penticton was not added, and there was only IMC Penticton, maybe with the addition of Tahoe, IMC Penticton was going to take longer to sell out anyway. If I am not mistaken, there are around 700 athletes from California going to Penticton every year, and I am sure there are many from Oregon and Washington that had already opted for Tahoe over going back to Penticton and had registered for Tahoe even before Penticton switched to Challenge.


Dev

Not because I want to sign up, because I have been having a debate with WTC about the size of the triathlon market

Dev,

I think the growth that we have been experiencing for the past 5 - 10 years may be slowing down and we are reaching some form of a soft plateau. Time will tell, of course. Everything has it limits. Even within the whole sport of triathlon those that train for and do the Ironman distance events are not by any means a majority group - although because of media focus and amplitude, it seems like a lot more people actually do them.

The above point I am making is really hard to tell, because, more and more races ( and not just Ironman & 70.3's) keep getting added to the race calendars.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Course: Tremblant? - Maybe but lets wait and get some racer feedback after the event. The Whistler bike course will be hard to beat if the weather is good & not to windy. Whistler had the chance to have one of the all time great Ironman run courses if they would have gone single loop. Instead of a second out & back at Green Lake they could have used the lower half of the valley trail down to Creekside, returning up Alta Lake road, back into the valley trail & home. With 2 loops it will still be awsome, especially for spectators but oh, what could have been.