Good thread. I've in the market for new wheels and was leaning towards a 404NSW front and 808NSW rear... but now I'm reading more about ENVE's new 7.8

Anyone have opinion on the stability of the front wheels for the ENVE 7.8 vs the 808? I was running a set of firecrest 808s a few years ago but I really cant handle the wind gusts, very unnerving when going fast speeds with gusts.. .So I switched it to 404/808 combo which worked much better.. I read the new NSW 808 have improved the stability a little (by like 10%) but thats probably not enough for me to ride confidently in windy conditions... Wondering if the 7.8 will do better since the RIM depth is 10mm less..

Also, what's everyone's opinion on the braking power of comparison?

And lastly, I'm really leaning towards the NSW because the new decals are sick!!! Feels like they arent even there.

I just got some Enve 7.8s. Performance wise I prefer them over my 2015 808s but the one thing I don't like is that changing a tire is MUCH harder. I could change a flat on my 808s simply and didn't need a tire lever. On the 7.8s I went to install a race tire and getting the bead over the rim was incredibly difficult.

I picked up a 404/808 NSW and same issue... Changing the tire was very hard. My old zipp FC 404s was very easy and no need for a lever.

Other than that, very nice wheels!

At a big stage race recently and talked with a guy riding the NSW 30 3's and he is not very happy. Said he has had hub issues and they went out of true quickly. He and I both love zipp rims but you really need to build them up with something other than zipp hubs.

If you road race enve is the no-brainer with their 5 year warranty and crash replacement policy. You can build up a nice set for 2k. If I was going over 2k I would grab the specialized clx 64.

I think HED offers one of the most competitive options on the market today. I have a stinger and Belgium set that has been bomb proof for a very long time with zero issues. You can easily find them around 1500 brand new online if you watch carefully, even saw a Stinger 6 set for 1400 last week.

The brake track issues is overplayed IMO. Unless you live in the mountains all of the top end rims are just fine. I have done a few road races this year with fairly serious descents and never once had a brake track issue. Yes, wet braking is always more difficult but we are talking about very small differences overall. These differences do not warrant spending 1k more. If braking is that much of an issue just get a disc wheel + 160mm rotors +hydro brakes and be done with it!

I don't have the new 7.8s but have a 60 front Enve Smart with a 90 rear. Having used all of the big players wheels through the years, I absolutely feel the Enve are so superior to any of them. It's really odd, but the minute I start on the bike with the Enves on bike bike instead of my (very nice carbon) training wheels, it's apparent how much more stable and how much better and faster they feel. I would recommend checking Enve out, as just the confidence from having such an awesome set underneath you makes you faster.

Clx 64S ride amazing but I wish there was a textured brake track or something. Braking is a little less than desired compared to my Enve 7

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I recently bought a pair of 8.9 Enves with Chris King hubs....got a good price when they were being discontinued. Previously ran a Zipp 900 clincher disc and 404 combo on my P4. Have done three events since, (one half and two Oly's) and am very satisfied. Having read other recent threads here about "always run a disc", I'm thinking about experimenting with running my 900 with the Enve front at my next event. Any thoughts/opinions regarding possible pros/cons from some of you more experienced cyclists?

I've had the Enve 8.9's on my Dimond for over a year now and I absolutely love them. Super fast and super stable on windy/gusty/blustery etc days. Raced a few IM where the wind was horrible. But while many other riders were sitting upright, I was able to stay in the aero position the entire race (except aid stations and turns).

On my last IM 70.3 race, I decided to use a borrowed Profile Design disc. Compared to the same race last year, there was a very stong headwind so half the bike leg was a struggle. In spite of this, I was able to ride 10 minutes faster this year compared to last year. I realize there may be other factors that contributed to this i.e improved fitness/ switching from Garmin 1000 to 520/2 bottle rear to single Xlab aero pouch. But 10 minutes is still a big deal considering the wind conditions. Last year's race was quite calm.

I've only had experience riding them on my Dimond so I can't comment on how they handle with other bikes.

Can you comment on where Zipp braking is in comparison to both?

FWIW I just got a set of 404 NSWs and the hype is real. Amazing braking. I can't speak as to how they handle in the wind just yet.

what do you like more then the 2015 808?

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I don't have an NSW so I can't comment on that but Rappstar says it is very good. The regular brake from Zipp is ok on pair with CLX64 but I definitely trust the brake track for long sustained braking. That isn't something I have had the chance to test on the ClX 64s or Enve 7

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Ride them in the rain and report back, if you can. Not saying this is you, but I can't stand it when people -- cough Nick Salazar cough -- offer an opinion on brake track effectiveness without having tested them under wet conditions.

Rappstar says that, but Rappstar also had a hell of a time at Cairns because it was raining and he was so terrified with the ineffectiveness of his braking that he needed to stop and adjust his calipers. So he doesn't accuse me of putting words in his mouth, you can read for yourself:

I'm sure this is what led to my first stop of the day, about 25mi into the bike, where my brakes that have grabbed fine the day before the race no longer did much more than modulate my speed; I could no longer actually stop, just slow down and not even that well. I tried - seriously - adjust my brakes while riding, though I quickly realized this was a sure fire way to crash. Like most TT bikes these days, there's no simple barrel adjuster to tighten the brakes. So I had to stop. Thankfully, unlike some setups, there's no complete disassembly of the bike required to adjust the brakes; just the need to insert a 2.5mm hex key (which the multi-tool I carry with me has) into the lever handle to adjust the master cylinder plunger. Up until this point, I wasn't killing it on the bike, as that swim also tired me out a lot more than a normal 2.4mi swim does, but I also wasn't losing much time. And I had planned to be patient anyway, as the Cairns course finishes with a long 40mi into a straight headwind. So you need to be strong at the end. But it certainly was deflating (insert foreshadowing music here...) to have to stop for 50sec to tune my brakes. In the future, I suppose I'd tighten my brakes in the morning if it was raining, but at the same time, I certainly wasn't "on the edge" with regards to stopping power in the week leading up to the race, and I changed nothing.

I will. Fwiw I previously had firecrests and wasn't impressed by their braking *AT ALL*. The NSWs are night/day better.

Can anyone who's used the Enve 7.8 wheels, with their revised brake track, compare them to the previous enve wheels (without the brake track enhancement) under wet conditions? How much better is the braking on the 7.8 in the wet with the new treatment?

He has in the past commented that it the best brake track and may have even mentioned that it was better than aluminum. I can't find the thread at the very moment. Regardless, I am not sure if this was more about the brake pads, wheels, or just how far he had the brake pads from the wheel. Regardless, anyone that has ridden carbon in the rain is skeptical of the braking. This is why I really like the HED Jet+ Black in the rain.

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Better than the Classic 65's by a lot, but not quite up to the same level as aluminum with good pads. I don't know about comparisons to 6.7's. This is with proprietary Trek aero brakes on a Speed Concept, not standard caliper Campy or Shimano brakes so YMMV.

Unfortunately it seems that whilst ENVE will sell a 7.8 front, they won't split their carbon hub-set.

Resulting options:
- 7.8 with DT240/R45 (~$1350),
- 7.8 with ENVE hubs (~$1750) + a ~$700 rear hub.. (ie. > $2.4k for one wheel, until/if you could sell the rear hub).
- 808NSW ~$1500

Until the additional $700 hub issue cropped up I was going to order the 7.8 with ENVE hubs, now I'm leaning back towards the 808NSW

I did a half iron race in September on my 808 NSW and had absolutely no problems stopping. In fact the modulation was great and the power was more than enough to get into a skid on a couple hard stops (lost mechanical grip in the wet). I do use Magura brakes so the power is more than normal brakes, but I don't think it was a huge differentiator.

Jack

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Thanks for all the info I'm in the same boat.

while its not the 7.8 that I have...2.2 and 4.5. I did have 3.4 and 6.7 previously and it's night and day difference. My 6.7 scared the F out of me= no brakes. The new brake track is not bad in the wet, but the pads wear pretty quickly.

BikeRadar has a video review of the two wheel sets that is pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlhBZC5dRNI

I have actually picked up a set of Enve wheels with the new textured brake track and I can concur that it makes a whole lot of difference in the wet. Like you I found wet braking on the old Enves to be wanting. The new rims inspire much confidence and I would rank them above regular anodized aluminum rims in the wet for braking performance.

HELP!!!

I have the 7.8 on my Dimond. Seems to be fast and great performance...UNTIL...I flat. Here is what happened on my ride today. I had just put on brand new Conti GP4000 on both front and back. A BURR found my front tire and wammo...flat #1. I have read and studied and practiced the "proper" method for getting the tire completely in the inner channel and know how to change a flat! It was nearly impossible with my tire iron to get the front tire on. 20' later I finally got it done and thought I for sure pinched the tube. Only to find another burr ATTACKED my rear wheel. As hard as front wheel was to change, rear wheel took two of us and nearly broke a tire iron. This is complete shit if I am racing and this happens. The 7.8 are tubless compatible. Does anyone run them that way. I am ready to get rid of the ENVE's and find a solution so if I do flat in a long distance triathlon, I can change in 5 to 7 minutes and be on my way. Anyone have any solutions or words of wisdom?

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Lar Dog