yup! 9120 also but that's the trail/enduro group. fwiw, I removed the di2 on my other bikes (mtb as you might deduce) and now have the xtr & xt versions on all except the fat bike because it's eagle and just fine as is. Related, this shifts fine using an eagle cassette and (imo) better than a full sram drivetrain should you not be able to get the freehub for your wheels (Stan's mostly, they're "out" but not really available). I'm in love...

simplex retrofriction.

That's a shifter mechanism, not a group. What are you pairing it with?

I still don't understand why Shimano can't do some 11-speed r2c shifters

Probably because traditional bar-end shifters are vastly less mechanically complex than R2C, and TT/Tri is a shaky market where the high-end has moved largely to electronic. The other markets that buy bar-end shifters won't help the R2C cause either, since the drop-bar tourists and whatever who use bar-end shifters do so specifically because they're simple levers.

Well it's definitely Not SRAM. The front SRAM deraileurs I've had have been shiiite.

I've been on di2 since I went 11sp, so I can't speak for current mechanical stuff.

With 10 speed, it was SRAM Red for me and Shimano was a distant second. Shimano was smooth and reliable, but those long throws and ergonomics just isn't my thing. I put 10's of thousands of miles on SRAM red with never an issue. Love the quick double tap shifting vs. multiple levels with long throws on shimano. Maybe SRAM wasn't as smooth, but quicker and more precise. The yaw control FD was also great, no need to trim FD on cross chaining like Shimano. I still have SRAM Apex 10sp on my cross bike and it just works. All that said, I'm running Di2 on my road bikes and Eagle AXS on one of my MTBs and electronic is the way to go. I prefer Shimano over SRAM for electronic, even with the wires.

I found a NOS trek 5900 project one frame from about 2004 last year and sourced some new 7800 bits off ebay. Although I'm a sram guy, the 7800 is like butter, as good as I remembered from all those years ago. Sure, I have to trim the front derailleur but the bike is my retro cruiser so no issue there.

I can't really feel the difference in the gruppos at the high end now.

But on that note.. I had some 9 speed dura ace on a cross bike I bought second hand for a while. The big loopy cables out of the hoods. I still smile when i think about how that thing performmed. Perfect shift every time. Mud, snow, rain. Load, no load. Every shift was perfect.

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Train hard to Race harder

"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift" - Pre

I am one of the 2% of the world who rides campy. I have it on 4 bikes, and Shimano on 2 other bikes in the family. Campy 11 speed Chorus, Record, and SR is set it and forget it forever. Chains and cassettes last 5000 miles, and cables never fray. I question why I am doing it when I replace cables.

Anyone have any thoughts on the XTR m9000 rear derailleur????

Works the same as a M8000 but it's a little lighter.

I bent the link and cage on a M9000 and replaced it with a M8000, I didn't notice a difference is shift quality (from when the M9000 was new).

It could be my memories improving things, but I remember thinking DA 7800 was the best thing I'd ever felt. There are faster shifts, but damn, that was smooth. I remember comparing it to Sram at the time (Force?) and thinking that Sram was faster, but it just hammered the gears into place. 7800 just gently glided into place.


My regular ride has Shimano DA 7800 on it. It's starting to have an almost "vintage" look to it. Tuned up, the shifting is magical - smooth, efficient and almost effortless*. As others have noted, when Shimano then went to the under-the-bar-tape shifters, after this, the quality of the shifting actually took a step backwards. They did perfect it over time - but it took a couple of iterations before they did.

*Another advantage - if needed, gear cable changes are quick and easy to do and can be done in a few minutes if you know what you are doing! :-)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Sun Tour Superbe Pro

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#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

I have all kinds of Ultegra, really like the 9 speed version the best. I find 10-11 speed to "smoothish". I also built a road bike with 11 speed Campy Athena when it went on sale before Potenza was released. It is my current favorite mechanical group.

Mid 90's vintage Shimano 105 (9-speed), on my steel Miyata. Oh, WHY did I give it to the son in law?????

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

Totally agree, front SRAM is rubbish, rear there's not much in it.

I run Etap on my TT bike and front is ok, but not even as good as the Ultegra on my winter bike let alone the DA on the race bike.

I love my Campy stuff, and I've said recently on here that Campy 10 was my favorite for looks, with 11 being incredible in so many ways.

Never quite been enamored with anything SRAM I've had, and I have had a few over the years.

Shimano's stuff right now is marvelous and I won't argue against it, love my Campy but I've got a new 105 group on my travel bike and the performance I get from that level group is the most impressive thing out to me right now. I'm not saying it is a Record group or my bike with Di2 but for the money the value in 105 is very impressive to me.

I am currently riding GRX 600/800, 105 R7000 and XT 8000 on gravel/road/mountain, and they are all awesome. But the best shifting?


Shimano Claris 240!

With the exposed shift housing and wide 8 speed chain it is super easy and light to shift and the easiest to adjust. Had it on my first gravel bike and was quite impressed.

I have never used SRAM, but can't help but think about that the infamous A.Schleck front shift blunder at the 2010 TDF really was a marketing disaster (Degenkolb's 1x disaster @Milan San Remo did not help either). At the time they had seven or eight? pro tour teams using their groupset, those numbers have definitely come down. I like SRAM and consider it an innovative company and always like to see someone giving Shimano some competition. It would be nice if they could improve the operation of their front derailleur system.

Many years ago 105 was considered absolutely awful. However, I just got a gravel bike with 105 and I'm amazed at how well it performs for the price point.

Ernie you guys using Yoko cables and housing on any of your bikes. I've been reading a lot of good stuff about their products helping to improve the shifting on some of these groups.

For me it's a close call between 9 speed Record and Dura Ace 7800. Light, accurate, lovely to use. I give the slight advantage to 9 speed Record for the enclosed cables and multiple shifts in both directions.

I've recently used the 11 and 12 speed groups from Campagnolo and they are also excellent once worn in, even faster but not quite as light shifting. Same with 9000/9100 Dura Ace which has really closed the gap again.

I apologise to any fans but SRAM shouldn't be in the conversation, especially if you're using their chains, chainrings and cassettes.

I'm not a fan of SRAM but what do you have against their cassettes? I've had some good luck mixing their cassettes with other Shimano groups where I felt like the Shimano cassette was kind of the problem in conjunction with their chains.

Dura Ace 9000. Bonus: that polished two-tone aluminium finish looks amazing.