not so sure about this...

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I plan on doing at least one of my long runs before Kona in the Next%, and avg pace will probably be in the 7:15-7:20 range - will see how HR and perceived effort compare to that run in my 'normal' Hokas.

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I think they would have helped, but Brownlee is also in the middle of a massive Kona block and has been training far differently. I ran last year in the 4% and this year in the Next%. They are the best shoes I've ever run in and I have been setting PRs. They aren't taking multiple minutes off though for that half mary.

Don't discount Iden. He is a phenomenal athlete who happens to be training in a way that gives him better preparation for this type of event.

True I’m probably making too General a comment, but if the foam does provide the energy savings/return system Nike claims then that benefit would likely present across a wide range of paces.

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My n=1 is that the vaporfly works really well for me at my harder paces (i.e. I'm running faster and feel better compared to regular shoes) even if it's not a very fast pace (in a race, I'm running lower to mid 7's).

My sense is the benefit has more to do with mechanics than absolute pace (I don't have very good mechanics and am likely a pretty inefficient runner, and my form obviously gets better as I run at harder paces, at least up to a point). Tried a slow/easy run in the vaporflys as comparison and they did not feel so good (the cushion was nice, but they were a bit awkward and it seemed like I was fighting the shoe a bit).

Have you heard anything more? Ie any anecdata? I’ve seen times which don’t reflect anything special at more mortal paces.

Maurice

Iden would have won with no matter what running shoe he was wearing. He had a phenomenal race. My 2 cents is if iden and brownlee switched shoes, Iden still would have beaten him by a similar margin.

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I use the regular laces in the Nike 4%s and Nike Nexts. I attach the locking mechanism from Lace Locks but don't use elastic laces.

Personally, I don't like the Next's as much as the 4% shoes... I think that's related to the higher heel to toe drop in the 4% shoes.

Lock Lace type shoe strings work just fine with the Next %

Anecdotal. I feel like the faster you run the better the shoes feel. Just wearing them around the house feels horrible. Slow jog feels merely bad. But get up to aerobic and tempo and then threshold and they start to pop.

I think they have a sweet spot.

Eric

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

My argument is that they're probably not helping much at easy easy run pace. Rather than thinking of it like aerodynamics, think of it like hydrodynamics and a hydroplane. Hydroplanes don't help you much, until they do, and then they help you a lot

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Take it for what it's worth, but I heard an interview with a UMass researcher, Wouter Hoogkamer, who apparently looked into this and claimed the 4%s were just as likely, if not more likely, to improve slower runners than the elite.

Here's a link to the interview, and within the link is a link to a spreadsheet to plug in certain bits of into to see your potential improvements in the 4%s. I don't think the Next%s had been released or tested at that time, but I recall him saying something along the lines that they were supposed to be more forgiving to the general runner and could create even more efficiencies than the 4%. Anecdotally, I'm a *slower" runner, with a 4+ hour marathon and 1:45 half, and I *feel* faster in my Next% and have had some solid races in them.
https://scientifictriathlon.com/tts179/

Like aerodynamics it’s likely that benefit applies across all paces, not just sub 7.
not so sure about this...
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I'm too old for sub 7 . . . Next % helps for sure!


I've done training runs, short, without socks and no problem.


I have done 3 hour runs with elastic laces and no problem.


I have well over 150 miles on them and no unusual wear (and I am hard on shoes).

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David
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There’s theory and then there’s practice.

In theory they make me faster over a wide range of paces. In practice I’d rather run barefoot than wear my % shoes at 9:00/mi pace.

I’m thinking they’re not faster if I’m not wearing them.

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

No issue whatsoever ... if you rub some bodyglide onto the heel-counter

LOL! I also find easy runs in them kind of odd. That's why I bought the Turbo 2's for other runs.

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I would guess the sweet spot is more about how/where you land, rather than the specific pace itself.

I'm just looking forward to Patrick Lange cleaning house in five year old adidas Adios at Kona, with Sanders rolling in second in his Skechers.

Have you run in either of these shoes? I am guessing you have not.

This is exactly how they feel. for christ's sake, they were built for a sub 2 hour marathon. 99% of the people on this forum can't hold that pace for 200 meters.

Does Nike make carbon-plated shoes with a heel drop of less than 10mm? I do better in 5-8mm but can't find anyone besides Hoka who makes carbon-plated shoes with that kind of drop. I'm finding that in addition to making you faster, the carbon plates help with my hallux rigidus, but for some reason I can't run fast in the Hokas (no ground feel).

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The only way to avoid disappointment is to not try anything at all.

I think the Next% is 8mm of drop. I haven't run in them yet but others have said that the shoe addresses some of the instability issues people felt when using the 4%.

I felt the same way about the Hokas... I *really* wanted to like them but they just didn't work for me unfortunately.

Eric

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

this is simple, actually. The benefit is the return of energy. The term spring gets over-used here because there is NO spring effect but it helps to use the term. The spring gets set based on the force applied to the spring. This means WEIGHT of the runner will matter just as much as their speed. I suspect this myth about it only working for sub 7 pace was built upon the idea that 115 lb marathoners were wearing them.

This article does a good job of explaining how the shoe works. https://www.outsideonline.com/...-shoes-actually-work

Finally, someone mentions the weight of the runner. Anyone know the difference in the force being applied between a 115lb Kipchoge and a 170lb age group athlete?

Anyone seen many using the Hoka One One Carbon X's? I currently race in these shoes, but admittedly, do not have any definitive proof that they are a faster or slower shoe.

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- Jordan

My Strava

I don't think there is definitive proof that ANY shoe is faster.