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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
SheridanTris wrote:
pier87 wrote:
kajet wrote:
pier87 wrote:
I think most of you are missing that they are looking for the second relay guy, not a domestique for Alex Yee, which clearly doesn't need one as shown in Cagliari.
"how the f... do you know?"
1. Yee did have a domestique in Cagliari. Dickinson was covering every Hayden Wilde attack while Yee was saving his legs for the run.
I didn’t see any “move” by Wilde. And nothing would’ve stuck. Dickinson was showing he can bike well, but the real use of a domestique is if Yee doesn’t make front group after the swim.
But if he doesn’t, I don’t think Dickinson on his own is gonna take him back up there.
Yee has consistently been making the front group on the swim, and there has been 0 attacks on the bike that stuck in the men’s field.
Were you watching Cagliari 2024? Dickinson played a domestique role under the instructions of GB-Tri. That is why he buried himself on the bike covering all the breaks (but especially the breaks by Wilde). He then jogged the first lap of the run and dropped out.
I am confident Sam will be picked . . .
Same view here. They are looking for 1) a Leg 1 relay guy and (2, secondary requirement) a domestique, acknowledging that neither would be competitive in the individual (so how best to race/employ?)
Wilde in particular needs marking, but the French may need to be too: you could see them trying a 1-2 (or 2-3) with or without Blummenfelt or other strong cyclist.
In the unlikely event that Yee doesn't make the main pack out of T1, neither Dickinson nor Brownlee could drag him back up alone but they'd sure add firepower to the motivated chase.

Reading across to the British women, it's the same boat but there GBR has the triple luxury of two athletes both of whom will be equally capable in the MTR and the assurance/consistency for many months of Potter's close to front pack swim. You @kajet think Wilde doesn't need marking 'cos "0 attacks on the bike". Well Knibb needs a permanent marker clipped to her wheel (Coldwell) because Knibb's sole path to success is a breakaway, and she's one of a kind. Alone she couldn't make it stick, but with Duffy, maybe (NB that's Duffy's only route to a medal too). I expect a German to be on similar Knibb marking duties. Periault will not make the front pack so Lombardi and Beaugrand will just hang around, save energy, and hope.
I note that Dickinson is on the start list for 70.3 Warsaw next weekend (also Iden btw) presumably in case yesterday didn't go as well as it did.

I don't think though we can compare men and women.
In the women the pack will be much smaller, especially as there is the limitation of 3 athletes for the top teams - you'll see the swim much more strung up and I'd not be shocked if Knibb + Duffy managed to make something stick.
For the men I see 0 chance. You'd need way too much extra power. You'd need something like Wilde + KB + the french and someone else really going for it all at once and I think that a lot wouldn't want to bring Wilde along for an easy gold. You never know though.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [pier87] [ In reply to ]
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pier87 wrote:
I think most of you are missing that they are looking for the second relay guy, not a domestique for Alex Yee, which clearly doesn't need one as shown in Cagliari.

I don't know what GB Tri are prioritising, but I'll just point out that there is more history than just Cagliari when talking about Dickinson serving as domestique for Alex Yee. Without Sam, Alex may or may have not won the Commonwealth Games two years ago. Hayden had had a great swim and was out front with two others on the bike. Sam buried himself to bring back the Yee group. Without him it's probable (but not certain) that Yee may have started the run with a deficit to Wilde, changing the whole dynamics of the race.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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Diabolo wrote:
pier87 wrote:
I think most of you are missing that they are looking for the second relay guy, not a domestique for Alex Yee, which clearly doesn't need one as shown in Cagliari.

I don't know what GB Tri are prioritising, but I'll just point out that there is more history than just Cagliari when talking about Dickinson serving as domestique for Alex Yee. Without Sam, Alex may or may have not won the Commonwealth Games two years ago. Hayden had had a great swim and was out front with two others on the bike. Sam buried himself to bring back the Yee group. Without him it's probable (but not certain) that Yee may have started the run with a deficit to Wilde, changing the whole dynamics of the race.
Yeah but cmon commonwealth games field is tiny and with only 3-4 relevant competitors…
It was Yee, Wilde, Hauser and nothing more, or thereabouts.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [pier87] [ In reply to ]
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pier87 wrote:
Diabolo wrote:
pier87 wrote:
I think most of you are missing that they are looking for the second relay guy, not a domestique for Alex Yee, which clearly doesn't need one as shown in Cagliari.


I don't know what GB Tri are prioritising, but I'll just point out that there is more history than just Cagliari when talking about Dickinson serving as domestique for Alex Yee. Without Sam, Alex may or may have not won the Commonwealth Games two years ago. Hayden had had a great swim and was out front with two others on the bike. Sam buried himself to bring back the Yee group. Without him it's probable (but not certain) that Yee may have started the run with a deficit to Wilde, changing the whole dynamics of the race.

Yeah but cmon commonwealth games field is tiny and with only 3-4 relevant competitors…
It was Yee, Wilde, Hauser and nothing more, or thereabouts.

I think that comment is demeaning. The GB-Tri teams represented their home nations and the fields weren’t as strong as this years WTCS but they weren’t weak.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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SheridanTris wrote:
pier87 wrote:
Diabolo wrote:
pier87 wrote:
I think most of you are missing that they are looking for the second relay guy, not a domestique for Alex Yee, which clearly doesn't need one as shown in Cagliari.


I don't know what GB Tri are prioritising, but I'll just point out that there is more history than just Cagliari when talking about Dickinson serving as domestique for Alex Yee. Without Sam, Alex may or may have not won the Commonwealth Games two years ago. Hayden had had a great swim and was out front with two others on the bike. Sam buried himself to bring back the Yee group. Without him it's probable (but not certain) that Yee may have started the run with a deficit to Wilde, changing the whole dynamics of the race.

Yeah but cmon commonwealth games field is tiny and with only 3-4 relevant competitors…
It was Yee, Wilde, Hauser and nothing more, or thereabouts.

I think that comment is demeaning. The GB-Tri teams represented their home nations and the fields weren’t as strong as this years WTCS but they weren’t weak.

So on top of the 3 names I made, who do you reckon is a top 10 WTCS athlete that was at the Commies?
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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Diabolo wrote:
pier87 wrote:
I think most of you are missing that they are looking for the second relay guy, not a domestique for Alex Yee, which clearly doesn't need one as shown in Cagliari.
I don't know what GB Tri are prioritising, but I'll just point out that there is more history than just Cagliari when talking about Dickinson serving as domestique for Alex Yee. Without Sam, Alex may or may have not won the Commonwealth Games two years ago. Hayden had had a great swim and was out front with two others on the bike. Sam buried himself to bring back the Yee group. Without him it's probable (but not certain) that Yee may have started the run with a deficit to Wilde, changing the whole dynamics of the race.
I agree with @pier87: key requirement: Leg 1 MTR best GBR can get. Lower requirement: any domestiquing activity.
Both Brownlee and Dickinson look evenly matched for (1): both could deliver and lay the foundation for a GBR gold. Does (2) matter much: not really, and either could do the necessary.
So the selection comes down to other factors. Do you give Brownlee another Olympics as his swan song? Do you choose Dickinson to allow realisation of his Olympic dream, AND get the chance to win a relay medal, maybe gold. He's 27 so might be around for LA, but on balance probably not (because there are so many strong young(er) British men who'll be in the mix by then. Does Brownlee try to race middle distance? His last effort in Gran Canaria was not auspicious (cf Learmonth in Lanza, for example, in the same post Tokyo situation).
https://stats.protriathletes.org/...canaria/2022/results
Yee now hasn't the same weakness he had in 2022, if anything he's a better/more reliable swimmer than Wilde.
CG 2022 was obviously weaker than WTCS: don't see why @Sheridan demurs. That means there aren't athletes 'filling the gaps' and why Dickinson's services were absolutely required ftw (Yee) plus that ridiculous and arguable helmet strap touch penalty iirc.
I wonder whether we'll see a different Wilde in Paris. Once they've got rid off Pearson he'll ease off and trust his run on less fatigued legs to see off Yee.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not convinced we will see Jonny Brownlee at middle distance. I can see him retiring, I don't think the fire burns so bright in him as it does in his brother
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty sure Dickenson said he was going long after this Olympic cycle.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [sidelined] [ In reply to ]
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sidelined wrote:
Pretty sure Dickinson said he was going long after this Olympic cycle.
Well he has signed up with Bahrain Victorious so I assume that's the most likely course. But same for Stapley and Waugh (will we see those two soon in a race près de chez vous?) I guess Waugh will/can still finish well up in the WTCS final rankings with her flame still burning whereas others have post-Olympic dumps (Hamburg, Weihai and Torremolinos-Andalucia).
Edit: Sorry - wrong and confused. Dickinson has been with BMC pro tri team (not Bahrain) since the beginning of the year.
Was second in Bahrain 70.3 2022 (behind Luis, fresh off Bermuda win iirc).
https://stats.protriathletes.org/...ete/samuel-dickinson
Is on start list for Warsaw this w/e (to get a Taupo slot) and assume Tallinn (European Champs) in late August.
Another great prescient signing by Bob de Wolf (see also Sodaro, Neumann, Matthews, Byram (before she was offered T100 contract))
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Jun 4, 24 12:10
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
sidelined wrote:
Pretty sure Dickinson said he was going long after this Olympic cycle.
Well he has signed up with Bahrain Victorious so I assume that's the most likely course. But same for Stapley and Waugh (will we see those two soon in a race près de chez vous?) I guess Waugh will/can still finish well up in the WTCS final rankings with her flame still burning whereas others have post-Olympic dumps (Hamburg, Weihai and Torremolinos-Andalucia).

bmc i believe
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [r0bh] [ In reply to ]
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r0bh wrote:
I'm not convinced we will see Jonny Brownlee at middle distance. I can see him retiring, I don't think the fire burns so bright in him as it does in his brother

Totally agree. He is getting married in a couple of months and has other priorities.

I haven’t seem that burning desire and his performances show it.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [pk] [ In reply to ]
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pk wrote:
bmc i believe

Yes, it was/is the BMC triathlon team.

And from their website: "Sam is Commonwealth Gold medallist, multiple winner of ITU and ETU cup races and currently member of Team GB Olympic program. Sam has his sights set on a move to long distance in the future. At his first ever half distance event he finished second at IM70.3 Bahrain. Sam targets a podium at the European and World Ironman 70.3 Championships in 2024."
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [pk] [ In reply to ]
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SO I think now is about the time many teams were going to announce their picks, do we have any information or insight yet on those picks? Surely someone here has some inside info on the going ons in those meetings, ST's reach is far and wide when it comes to this stuff... (-;

And it would be nice once publicly announced, that there was also some color as to why so and so was picked in their opinion. But probably wont get that, just the usual fluff of we are happy to announce....
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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pro tri news has listed all the teams that have been announced
no suprises so far . apart form the fact that i would say for hungary did not go for devay but he was the 3rd placed athelte.
i think so far every country went with the highest ranked atheltes
france is announcing in 20 hours
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [pk] [ In reply to ]
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pk wrote:
pro tri news has listed all the teams that have been announced
no suprises so far . apart form the fact that i would say for hungary did not go for devay but he was the 3rd placed athelte.
i think so far every country went with the highest ranked atheltes
france is announcing in 20 hours

France have said their announcement is tomorrow at 14:00 so it looks like there are no appeals against their decision.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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SheridanTris wrote:
pk wrote:
pro tri news has listed all the teams that have been announced
no suprises so far . apart from the fact that i would say for Hungary did not go for devay but he was the 3rd [ranked] athlete.
i think so far every country went with the highest ranked athletes
France is announcing in 20 hours
France have said their announcement is tomorrow at 14:00 so it looks like there are no appeals against their decision.
So if the French selectors go 'highest ranked athletes' too that's Bergere (#1), Le Corre (#7) and Coninx (#11 and 2023 WC)
https://www.triathlon.org/...c_qualification/male
I assume Coninx will be back running by now and that's the differential between all 3 and Luis: he is (now and for the last 18 months) the weakest runner.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
SheridanTris wrote:
pk wrote:
pro tri news has listed all the teams that have been announced
no suprises so far . apart from the fact that i would say for Hungary did not go for devay but he was the 3rd [ranked] athlete.
i think so far every country went with the highest ranked athletes
France is announcing in 20 hours
France have said their announcement is tomorrow at 14:00 so it looks like there are no appeals against their decision.
So if the French selectors go 'highest ranked athletes' too that's Bergere (#1), Le Corre (#7) and Coninx (#11 and 2023 WC)
https://www.triathlon.org/...c_qualification/male
I assume Coninx will be back running by now and that's the differential between all 3 and Luis: he is (now and for the last 18 months) the weakest runner.

is he though? Leo was slower by a fair bit in Cagliari. But he was ill or something...right?
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [pier87] [ In reply to ]
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Announcement will be here: https://www.youtube.com/live/aV5q_W584Ms

Really recommend watching "Brillons a Paris" (latest episode here: https://www.youtube.com/...nF7W68Q&index=17 ; English subtitles available)... Dorian was back training pretty much immediately. Series is very good and features the federation staff. I guess we'll know shortly but I think they're probably going to pick Pierre, Leo and Dorian with Vincent as an alternate. They seem to work very closely with the athletes and the race results are only one of the decision parameters, as they should be. On the women side, Cassandre, Leonie and Emma clearly have this in the bag.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [CaliB] [ In reply to ]
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CaliB wrote:
Announcement will be here: https://www.youtube.com/live/aV5q_W584Ms

Really recommend watching "Brillons a Paris" (latest episode here: https://www.youtube.com/...nF7W68Q&index=17 ; English subtitles available)... Dorian was back training pretty much immediately. Series is very good and features the federation staff. I guess we'll know shortly but I think they're probably going to pick Pierre, Leo and Dorian with Vincent as an alternate. They seem to work very closely with the athletes and the race results are only one of the decision parameters, as they should be. On the women side, Cassandre, Leonie and Emma clearly have this in the bag.

He was on the turbo before he found out he had to have surgery but there has been no news since. He can’t be swimming yet as he broke both elbow and wrist and you can’t swim for 10 days after surgery anyways.

I believe he had a fitness assessment over the weekend but not certain.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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I guess apart from connix fitness .the other question they will ask is how are they going to break the pack in the swim
And with devay not there ,the only way to do this would to have Vincent only focus on swim and bike to the games
So in a way France has to ask are they going with a domestigue or not.
Without Luis for take out speed and then devay for crusing speed and somebody to exchange the lead, the chances to get away in the swim are a lot smaller.
Last edited by: pk: Jun 5, 24 1:51
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [pk] [ In reply to ]
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pk wrote:
I guess apart from Coninx fitness .the other question they will ask is how are they going to break the pack in the swim
And with Devay not there ,the only way to do this would to have Vincent only focus on swim and bike to the games
So in a way France has to ask are they going with a domestigue or not.
Without Luis for take out speed and then Devay for crusing speed and somebody to exchange the lead, the chances to get away in the swim are a lot smaller.
Even with Luis pushing the swim I really can't see a small group splitting off out of T1 and staying clear. For any value Le Corre or Bergere would have to be there with him, and if either of them are there Dickinson, Hauser, Hidalgo, Vilaca, Lehmann, Thorn and Schomburg are going to be there, for starters. With the immediate chasing group fully motivated (Yee, Wilde, Blummenfelt, Pearson et al).
I imagine they will select Coninx, knowing that they can play the 'hasn't recovered from the Yoko crash/arm break' card and replace with Luis with a week to go. The only downside to that is that the French lose their older poster bad boy for pre-Games publicity.
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Jun 5, 24 2:49
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