Black eye?! Gimme a break, absolutely no one outside of existing fans of triathlon have any idea this happened. This was a C level race.

I do agree they should simply clamp down on all pros at the finish line and be very consistent in applying the rule. This one is a very easy one to get consistent.

I appreciate this is 'chat', but you probably should find yourself a different hobby rather than ranting about this and harking back to 'when I was a lad'
Inconsistency of the application of a perfectly reasonable rule (albeit poorly articulated) is the main issue. Your 'take' on this issue: 'freedom to wear what little you like' is frankly "bizarre". I suggest that a far greater portion of the competing and spectating population would prefer to see chests mostly covered than would like to see competitors racing in speedos.
Running races of any quality across the world require a top (or crop top) to be worn (men and women; amateurs and professionals). Who wants to see blokes racing along without a vest on, either in the flesh or on VT/broadcast?
Finally allowing men to run topless would be unfair to women, - I assume you would be unhappy to see your mum/daughter running topless?

I do agree they should simply clamp down on all pros at the finish line and be very consistent in applying the rule. This one is a very easy one to get consistent.

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I think they've struggled with the rule because they've had to change it over the years. I believe it was initially some imaginary line on your body (nipple line) for where you could unzip. Now it seems you can unzip it as far as you want provided it's not unzipped fully from the bottom (which was MS's issue). Yet then in the same rule line it says "The uniform should be fully zipped when crossing the finish line".


Yet most athletes (MS won Boulder with it not fully zipped just this year) who are winning races are shown with it zipped down to some level at the finish line. And I get it, for the most part it being unzipped 4 inches doesn't mess with the "image" of the finish line pic. So it basically creates issues to what Ben Deal initially said about not only the rule but the officiating of said rule. I think that's the part that has to get cleaned up. If it's only being officiated if it's "unzipped" from the bottom, cool. Don't add the "fully zipped finish line part" to confuse and/or create issues.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I have the opposite view, I enjoy seeing all kinds of body shapes and sizes on the run course. I think it is good for growing the sport.

Back to topic: I would prefer to go back the 90s allowing us to race in speedos only. But whatever the rule says, has to be enforced consistently.

You misunderstood. I have no problem with any shapes of body on the course. This sport is open to anyone and everyone. My problem is half naked people running around during and after the race. Let's have some common sense and manner. Cover yourself up.

What part of the world are you in where the human body is so taboo? Transition must not be very fun for you.

I'll gladly answer this - as I said I mean no disrespect s13tx, but I stand by my statement. As far as harkening back to when I was a lad, or wanting to see my (non-existent) daughter topless, no, I am talking about just basic societal norms in the world today, not in the Victorian era or even when I was a lad 50 years ago. (I'm 59, for the record)

I've lived in the US my whole life, so that is mainly the perspective I speak from, but I'm pretty sure the norms I'm talking about are universal in most of the civilized world today - (settting aside places with Sharia law or similar) that women cover their breasts and bottoms, men only their bottoms. Most any public beach in the world (nude beaches aside, but those are usually private), men are shirtless with just their bottoms covered, women have their breasts covered as well. Same for any public swimming pool, not to mention other competitive sports with similar attire like swimming or diving. Bottoms only for the men, women cover their breasts as well. And I don't know where you live, but certainly any running race you go to in America, and that includes big time races in big cities, when it's hot in the summer, some percentage of the male field races shirtless, and I've never heard anyone who cares or anyone even comment about it.

So the whole zipper argument aside, I stand by my comment to this poster. As I said, I mean no disrespect, but if he is offended by seeing shirtless males, he should never go to a public beach, a public swimming pool, any road race, and for that matter even any triathlon in the states (other than the National Championships where USAT has now adapted the WTC rules). He also better be prepared to be offended just driving around most any city in the US, especially a health conscious one, where he will be exposed to men of all shapes, sizes, and hairiness running around and sweating without a top on, and almost nobody (well apparently you and s13tx, but not society in general) thinks a thing of it.

Whereas I enjoy watching half naked bodies of the opposite sex of all kinds and shapes =o) But to be fair to the opposite sex (and some same sex folks), that requires us to have a few hairy beer guts bouncing on the run course, I can deal with that. Men's only racquet clubs for example, they have a ton of old guys that like to walk around fully naked all the time in the changerooms with their balls hanging past their knees.

If memory serves, this goes beyond the clean image of the sport. This rule actually originates from Triathlon's history as a sport where the men's and women's distances, rules and prize money have been alignment since the then ITU (now World Triathlon) was created as a governing body for the sport. And that is that because women couldn't race topless, men couldn't either, and it was meant to equalize the rules about ensuring that torsos were covered. There's a lot more confusion on this rule in the US, because in domestic races, it's rarely enforced, but because of the alignment between IM and World Tri's rules, it does get enforced at that level. In Canada, the rule is enforced, although if it's a lower level race, it's usually a warn and amend, or a written violation, but not necessarily a DQ (if it's a championship race, or a worlds qualifier, it would result in a DQ, or it it were in an elite field).
Now setting aside the validity of the rule, and whether it remains relevant. The rules are on the book, and athletes have the responsibility to know the rules, and it's more unfair to not enforce the rules in some cases, than it is to enforce them (similarly to the Tokyo Test event where GTB and Learmonth were DSQd for a contrived tie).

Whether the rule is still relevant is debatable, and the uniform rules have evolved over the last few years to deal with short sleeved and front zippers, so it could get looked at through rules revision processes... But for now, it's the rule, and ignorance of the rules doesn't exclude one from enforcement of it.

I don't think one poster has implied that Sharpe shouldn't have known and adhered to the rule. So we're all in rare agreement there!

I think we're just arguing if the rule or its enforcement practices should be re-visited.

"And that is that because women couldn't race topless, men couldn't either, and it was meant to equalize the rules about ensuring that torsos were covered."

Wow. If anyone has mentioned this before I missed it. I kept persisting in both this thread and the USAT/Torso thread from last week for anyone to tell me where any of these rules requring men to race in tops came from in the first place, forget the whole zipper nonsense. I got a lot of answers about professionalism and modesty and some conservative countries who are in the Olympics not liking it, but I had no idea this was a part of it.

If that's the case that puts a whole new spin on it. As I talked about in post #57 above, I believe that it is a pretty much universal societal norm that men cover their bottoms and women cover their breasts as well. I'm all for equality for men and women, but I never would have thought this would be an area where equality was even desired by women. Were there women who found this unfair? Were there or are there women now that want to race topless and feel it's unfair they can't? I'm seriously asking because I want to know. Would love to hear some female voices on that aspect of it. I actually have no idea what gender most of the folks in this discussion are - I've always just kind of assumed most are male (as am I) but I have no idea for the most part whom I'm interacting with on here.

You’ve obviously never raced in Europe.

And here is the good Ditlev, making sure he gets a DQ rather than a DNF 😆

To be fair, I don't think the rule was asked for by women, but rather created so that uniform rules were consistent for both genders from the outset...

I think as I noted the reason for the particular response in the US around this is the difference between USAT rules and World Tri/IM rules. In many other countries, the rulebooks largely align, so in any race, you have the bare torso rule. And officials will ask you to put on a top if they see you topless. In the US, where this is largely not enforced, it seems more odd, and people may not realize that different rules apply.

At Canadian races, there are always issues with people who race in the US, and then come up and race, and confront officials when they get told to cover up their torso... There tend not to be the same issue with people from other countries, because they are used to this rule.

Professional beach volleyball didn't get the memo. :)

a number of local races, that are all USAT certified, have group prizes for largest number of athletes competing in speedos (which typically means no tops). I'm sure if someone is on their way to church on a Sunday morning at 7:00AM sees these athletes riding and running in just a speedo they may think it inappropriate, but nothing says I am comfortable with who I am more than lining up in a speedo to race. I don't think I've ever got a sense from other competitors or spectators that anyone is disturbed by this.