Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate"
Quote | Reply
I can't believe on the biggest tri forum we have no one has started a thread on this when something so ridiculous and controversial (in my opinion) happens in our sport, so here I go.

I can't even describe how this shit infuriates me. For the record, I'd barely even heard of Matt Sharpe before this occurred, so I couldn't care less who won or placed in the race - it's not about that. This is just such a black eye on our sport and it makes me irate.

The fact that he lost out on the podium and 3rd place prize money (I couldn't find a listing of how much, my guess is for a race like Maine 70.3 it would be in the $3K-$5K range) because the bottom of his zipper came out of the track is hard to imagine. But theoretically if he had won Hawaii and $120K and the same official was there, he would have been DQ'd and lost out on all that.

I won't even go into how ridiculous it is that we now even have rules that a guy cannot race shirtless. I went on a big ole unhinged rant on the USAT/Torso rule thread the other day about that.

And I'm not even talking about the fact that the rule even specificlly says that the official has the discretion to just give a warning. But some official in all their wisdom apparently on some power trip decided they should DQ him instead. In my opinion this official should be outed and excommunicated from our sport for life. They do not have the common sense or judgment required to be an official in this sport or any other.

I would be interested in hearing any person who thinks the rule is just to defend the rule to me and tell me how it should exist. He wasn't DQ'd because he exposed anything he shouldn't, or even that he had the zipper unzipped to the bottom. The reason it was a violation was because the zipper came out of its track at the bottom - that little part at the end came out of the track on the other side. He would have been fine if it was all the way down, as long as the zipper hadn't basically malfunctioned and come apart and separated by a few millimeters.

As someone who has been doing tris since 1985, when I hear something like this I am just so disgusted and quite frankly it makes me embarrassed for our sport. I would bet if you told anyone in a similar competitive sport like running or swimming, or just any ordinary Joe for that matter about this, they would laugh and say how the hell can you be involved in a sport that is run by such idiots.

Anybody care to defend it and tell me how full of shit I am?
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [skid777] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
1.) This got discussed in a variety of threads. We also talked about it on the ST Podcast, and in our race coverage article.
2.) The rule unequivocally states that the uniform is supposed to be zipped up at the finish line, too. And no, there isn't an option to give a warning -- it's a "fix it now or DQ, thanks."
3.) All sport is full of somewhat silly technical rules that, on occasion, will result in disqualification or penalties. See: Wimbledon's rules on clothing.
4.) It's better than the old "just how far am I allowed to unzip on my sternum" rule.
5.) Men can go Haley Chura mode and wear a "bro" if they so choose to, you're just also required to fully unzip the top and bring it down to your waist.
6.) At the end of the day, it's your damned job to know the rules, even ones as dumb as this one.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [skid777] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The rule is 100% stupid. The inconsistent enforcement of the rule is 110% stupid. The fact that he was DQ'd at the finish with no warning when the rule specifically says penalty then DQ if not promptly fixed is 200% stupid.

Despite the stupidity of the rule, every single pro should be well aware of it. It's not brand new and it's talked about a lot. There have been random other disqualifications for it. I don't know how Matt wasn't aware of it because despite not usually being enforced, anyone who has raced one or a few Ironman pro races has probably had it explained in the pro meeting.

That said, I 100% think he should not have been DQ'd (and note that I did benefit from that ruling). And for future reference, he missed out on $2k prize money plus whatever sponsor bonuses he has in place).

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
OK - all fair points. I did search and couldn't find anything on this forum about it. And as far as the discretion to not DQ, every article I read about it said that they could have just warned him and given him a chance to remedy it, which was not done.

So I'll make my question even simpler to both you and Benjamin who replied as well. Both of you at least seem to agree with me on one point that it is a stupid rule. Can you or anyone else explain to me why the rule exists and what the point of it is?
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [skid777] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's part of the overall rules harmonization with World Triathlon. WT rules require zippers in middle and long distance events to not be undone below the bottom of the sternum, with a warning/DQ system. Also requires you to wear a kit over your shoulders, same penalty.

This is the rules harmonization that has also made certain shoes illegal for running.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [skid777] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Why are you "infuriated?"

The rule is in place so that our sport has more of a professional appearance. Similar rules apply in most sports to some degree. We can agree or disagree, but it is pretty well known. I guess that is why NBA players, etc, need to keep their shirts on too.

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
OK - sorry to keep persisting and seeming argumentative, but hey, this a triathlon forum, that's what we do here, right?

So I would say you answered the question as to why WTC (or USAT - not even sure which rules prevail here or even if there is a difference) has these rules, to be in line with the rest of the world. I guess I should have asked more specifically why in the world the rule exists at all that WTC is complying with it - what's the damn reason for this rule?!?!?!?! Because I can't fathom what it is. Not trying to beat up on you - I know you didn't make the rules. Just trying to get anyone to give me some logic as to why the rule exists in the first place.
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [skid777] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't remember what (if any) explanation they gave us when the rule was implemented, but I'm pretty sure others posters here are correct: it's just to try to keep some level of "professionalism". They phrase it as "protecting our sponsors" and such but I think they just want photos of people in full kit rather various levels of undress.

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [david] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
david wrote:
Why are you "infuriated?"

The rule is in place so that our sport has more of a professional appearance. Similar rules apply in most sports to some degree. We can agree or disagree, but it is pretty well known. I guess that is why NBA players, etc, need to keep their shirts on too.


That's the rationale, sure. Just a culture clash. In the Wimbledon example above, those rules were born from Victorian-era norms.

Triathlon was born on the beaches of Hawaii and San Diego.

So there's a natural pushback against the blue-blazered crowd finger-wagging about "what looks professional."

Some other sports born on the beaches have put up moats around their cultures. E.g. beach volleyball. Triathlon caved in long ago, IMO. I'm just waiting for them to allow UCI officials to bring their sock-height-measuring tools to triathlon. :)

Edit: I guess men in pro beach volleyball have to wear tank tops. So I wasn't 100% right on that.
Last edited by: trail: Aug 9, 23 8:47
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [skid777] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So rules fall into different categories- safety / competition / and some fall into the "vanity" of upholding a professional / clean image. WT has all kinds of rules on what is and what isn't allowed as uniform logos. So this type of rule is done to create a "professional" clean image at the finish line for both the event or organization and the athlete.

Did you know the #1 rule that is violated in the NFL? Sock uniform rule. How the players wear their damn socks. There is all kinds of rules and measurements that have to be done, and here's the kicker, there is an guy in pregame that goes around and looks player by player and will bust out a measuring stick to measure socks as needed. Now you never hear about it because the uniform violation only is $250-$1k and not the $75k fines for the "illegal hits" that get the clicks and stories on all the sports

But that's why this type of rule exists, to improve upon the "image" of the sport, especially as the finish line photo is basically the photo that is shared the most. It's also the best way to showcase your sponsors.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [david] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"Why are you "infuriated?"

I'm glad to answer that question. As I've said in this post and my one about the torso rule, I find it infuriating, because I think it's a ridiculous rule and I think the fact that it is enforced reflects horribly on a sport I love and have been doing since 1985 when we all raced shirtless and in little Speedos even in the most conservative parts of the country and I'm guessing the world and nobody cared.

Let me present a hypothetical that given this rule doesn't even seem that far-fetched to me. Let's say Jan Frodeno comes back and wins the World Championship this fall at the age of 42 after missing a year with injury and most people thinking he was done as a real contender, and in his swan song beats all the young guns. What an unbelievable story that would be and how awesome for our sport. Now let's say he's coming down the finishing stretch and as he does he raises his arms in glory to all of the cheering fans. But those suits are tight - it's certainly not impossible to think that as he did that, his zipper comes undone and even the little end pops out from the other side at the last second before he crosses the line. No fault of his own - his sponsor sent him this kit at the last minute (as they did with his suit the other day at PTO) and he hadn't raced in it before and the zipper wasn't made just quite right. He's DQ'd and forever will show as DSQ in his final race. You think you'd be good with that? You think that's a good look for the sport? Being this is the defining race in our sport, It would no doubt be a rare case where triathlon makes a splash in the national news, and we would be the laughing stock of the sports world. I'm guessing all you sticklers would say he should have known better than to have lifted his arms like that with a suit he had never worn before.
Last edited by: skid777: Aug 9, 23 8:48
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [skid777] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
skid777 wrote:

. Let's say Jan Frodeno comes back and wins the World Championship this fall at the age of 42 after missing a year with injury and most people thinking he was done as a real contender, and in his swan song beats all the young guns. What an unbelievable story that would be and how awesome for our sport. Now let's say he's coming down the finishing stretch and as he does he raises his arms in glory to all of the cheering fans. But those suits are tight - it's certainly not impossible to think that as he did that, his zipper comes undone and even the little end pops out from the other side at the last second before he crosses the line. No fault of his own - his sponsor sent him this kit at the last minute (as they did with his suit the other day at PTO) and he hadn't raced in it before and the zipper wasn't made just quite right. He's DQ'd and forever will show as DSQ in his final race. You think you'd be good with that? You think that's a good look for the sport? It would no doubt be a rare case where triathlon makes a splash in the national news, and we would be the laughing stock of the sports world. I'm guessing all you sticklers would say he should have known better than to have lifted his arms like that with a suit he had never worn before.

.
.
Hey Scott,

Frodo gets a free pass as was displayed last week at the PTO USA Open in T1. For anyone else in Nice in your scenario, it would be deemed a "wadrobe malfunction" and not his fault,much the same way as "accidental littering" is now a thing when bottles are ejected or equipment broken and left on the bike course.

Bring back the speedo !!!!!!!!
.
Last edited by: ThailandUltras: Aug 9, 23 8:53
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [skid777] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think in your example inadvertant "malfunction" falls under discretionary non-call by officials. Not uncommon in sports. I've seen cyclists race with their butt cheeks hanging right out after a crash, and they don't get penalized. :)
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hey - just for the record I believe Scott Molina's handle on here is "skid" or something similar. I'm not him if that's who you thought you were writing to in addressing me as Scott. Just a long time competitive age-grouper here in the states.

But I think if you say Jan should be given a pass that is kind of straddling both sides of the fence here and just again shows how stupid this whole thing is in my opinion. (well actually you didn't post before so maybe not you specifically) But others on here even agreed it's stupid, but hey even so a rule is a rule, Matt should have known so the penalty is just. My guess is they would not want Jan DQ'd, and I bet he would be given a pass just because of the black eye for the sport it would cause. But then that is bullshit too. The same rule shouldn't apply to Jan as Matthew Sharpe? That's crap.
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Trail -

That was exactly part of my beef in the original post - that officials had discretion and didn't use it. Does anyone think Matthew broke the rule intentionally? Of course not. The zipper coming out of its track was certainly a "malfunction" - it is not supposed to do that. Yet most everyone shot me down and said a rule is a rule, he deserved the DQ he got.
Last edited by: skid777: Aug 9, 23 9:05
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [skid777] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
skid777 wrote:
Hey - just for the record I believe Scott Molina's handle on here is "skid" or something similar. I'm not him if that's who you thought you were writing to in addressing me as Scott. Just a long time competitive age-grouper here in the states.

But I think if you say Jan should be given a pass that is kind of straddling both sides of the fence here and just again shows how stupid this whole thing is in my opinion. (well actually you didn't post before so maybe not you specifically) But others on here even agreed it's stupid, but hey even so a rule is a rule, Matt should have known so the penalty is just. My guess is they would not want Jan DQ'd, and I bet he would be given a pass just because of the black eye for the sport it would cause. But then that is bullshit too. The same rule shouldn't apply to Jan as Matthew Sharpe? That's crap.
.
.
My mistake,,Not to many Skids have been around that long..

I never said Jan "should" get a free pass,but the fact is,he has and will. That is just the way it is in his farewell year.

The rule is the rule and I never understood why you will get DQ'ed if your top is undone and flapping around but not if it is undone all the way but stitched to your hips so it doesn't flap around. Plenty of stupid rules to keep the rules makers in a job.
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No worries. Completely off topic here but just a quick story to recount because you know how us old fuckers like to talk about the good ole days....

The first triathlon I ever did was Memphis in May in 1985. And the real "Skid", aka The Terminator, Scott Molina won it that year and I met him and shook his hand. At the awards they had a drawing and gave away a few prizes, and his name got drawn and he won a pair of Nike running shoes. Of course the crowd all laughed and jeered at the sponsored pro winning one of the best prizes over all us age groupers.
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [skid777] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think he intentionally unzipped the top all the way to the bottom at some point on the run. It didn't "malfunction" and just unhook itself like your hypothetical scenario, he also admits he didn't know the specifics of the rule. So I think this was a worst case scenario in that it looks bad on all parties. But in terms of the "discretion", I don't think this was a case of an official wanting to over rule and inject, I think for the most part the athlete basically broke the rule on his own doing, not necessarily a "malfunction". If this was a malfunction he would have been the winner, I just don't think that's the case.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [skid777] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I remember back in the day,"outside assistance" stretched as far as a penalty if anyone was assisting pro athletes by blatantly giving splits from the sidelines and now we see Knibb's dad out there with a whiteboard like it is the TdF. Times change and silly rules come and go.
Chuckie V's DQ and subsequent banning for having a beer in during Kona when he was well and truly out of the race is one that pissed me off.
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I guess we're past the point of beating a dead horse here, but then again as I said above, this a tri forum, that's what we do is debate the minutia of stuff like this. And to be honest, I've neve worn a tri-suit, as I said I've always raced shirtless. I actually bought one a couple of years ago, as after reading about how much faster they are than racing shirtless, and being at the pointy end of the old guys age groups, I don't want to give up any time. Unfortunately due to some health issues I haven't raced in a couple of years so still have yet to race in one.


So this isn't me arguing, this is me saying educate me - maybe I am misinterpreting how a pro trisuit is made. I just looked at mine, and it looks like what I think I see pros racing in. The zipper zips down to the lower stomach area, and no further that that. When they zip it down, it opens so their chest is exposed in a V shape, but it stops at some point. In other words, you can't unzip it so the whole thing opens at the bottom. As opposed to say a windbreaker or jacket you would wear, so that is designed to unzip all the way so one side comes out of the other so you don't have to pull it over your head to get it off. So on a trisuit, it certainly is not designed to come apart at the bottom like a jacket - I looked at mine and I think I would have to tear the thing to get it to come apart at the bottom, it certainly will not come out by zipping it all the way down, even with more force than I should. So if that were to come apart, is that not a "malfunction"? It certainly is not designed to do so is it?
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [skid777] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
We reached out to him the morning after the race to find out more and he told us: “Right after I crossed the finish line at 70.3 Maine yesterday I was alerted by the head referee that I was disqualified for having my suit fully unzipped.
“I tried to show examples of other athletes with their suits undone at a finish but because mine has a zipper that fully unzips (versus still being attached to the suit but fully unzipped) I remained DQ’d.

https://www.tri247.com/...q-unzipped-race-suit

ETA: If you listen to ProTriNews, they started an podcast bitching about the rule that evening of the race, and then at the end of the show, when the pics became available, they changed their tune about the ruling while on the podcast.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Aug 9, 23 9:56
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes I've read that article and seen that pic. Although it says that is from Boulder, so not this specific race. If it's the same suit, I still don't see how it completely unzips. Obviously there is some disconnect in my head as I'm not grasping the wording here somehow. If it was a tri-top, then it makes sense. It could zip down and stop at a certain point, or it could unzip all the way to the bottom so it would open up like a jacket. Clearly a garment like that is intentionally designed so that when you zip it all the way down, the two sides separate and come apart. That can't be the case with a tri-suit. It only zips down to some point at the waist or above. So to my mind if it is not defective the two sides shouldn't come apart unless it "malfunctions". No need to keep trying to explain. As I've displayed, I'm just an old relic who finds the whole rule stupid anyway, so regardless of the details I'm not ever going to agree with this rule. Cheers.
Last edited by: skid777: Aug 9, 23 10:22
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
realbdeal wrote:
The rule is 100% stupid. The inconsistent enforcement of the rule is 110% stupid.

This.

x1,000

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

--
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [skid777] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What you hate to see is where an official could help an athlete in that situation by reminding them of the rules. This rule isn't an "fair play" issue but more of an "vanity" issue and so an official "helping' Sharpe in this type of scenario isn't "harming" the results. They are basically helping all parties. So I think you would have wished the officials would have helped in situations like this and not just after the fact. Again especially as this was not an "competitive" type of rule infraction.

So I have no clue if an official did try and help and said advice was ignored, but I would have to think an athlete would adhere to the advice if given. So again they don't have to, I just feel like these scenarios are one of those things where we all "lose" in these rulings, so if any part can help the other, it would be better.....And yes I know, I know "athletes should know the rules".

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Quote Reply
Re: Matthew Sharpe and "ZipperGate" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The rule may be nonsense, old and whatever we all want to call it, but it won't change the fact that is an applicable rule everybody should be fully aware of (specially pros with money into play). Whether the official could have shown more sympathy towards him is another topic, but if somebody had protested, they would have DQ-ed him.
I believe in the past the rule was applicable during the entire race and recently got changed to just the finish line.
I don't think it applies in cycling and yet you see the winners zipping up the maillot and stand up when crossing the finish line because that picture is very important to their sponsors.
Quote Reply

Prev Next