Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [synthetic] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 23 14:26

Post #176 of 199 (3090 views)

synthetic wrote:

kajet wrote:

iron_mike wrote:

when i see the crowds, i think, "dammit, stop scratching your heads and just give the world champs to roth!" double down on the success and see how the images look on TV when you've got athletes climbing through the crowds on solarerberg, or getting great video from the swim.

Whence the assumption that Roth will kick Felix Walchshöfer to the curb the moment Ironman calls the town hall?

It’s all but guaranteed that they won’t.

Felix won’t rebrand either. Been there done that and they were treated like shit by Ironman (in their opinion).

And since I want to do this race one day, I sure as hell hope I won’t have to pay ironman thousands of dollars (qualifying event plus slot) to have an inferior race experience in Roth.

it is up to a third party, ideally non profit, to declare a world championship for a set distance. PTO is closest in position to do that.

.
.
World Triathlon is the global governing body of the sport of Triathlon. Roth has already hosted the European Long Distance Triathlon Champs, sanctioned by the German Triathlon Union which in turn operates under World Triathlon's umbrella.
European Long Distance Championships 2021 - Roth • Europe Triathlon

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [synthetic] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 23 14:39

Post #177 of 199 (3053 views)

synthetic wrote:

kajet wrote:

iron_mike wrote:

when i see the crowds, i think, "dammit, stop scratching your heads and just give the world champs to roth!" double down on the success and see how the images look on TV when you've got athletes climbing through the crowds on solarerberg, or getting great video from the swim.

Whence the assumption that Roth will kick Felix Walchshöfer to the curb the moment Ironman calls the town hall?
It’s all but guaranteed that they won’t.
Felix won’t rebrand either. Been there done that and they were treated like shit by Ironman (in their opinion).
And since I want to do this race one day, I sure as hell hope I won’t have to pay ironman thousands of dollars (qualifying event plus slot) to have an inferior race experience in Roth.

it is up to a third party, ideally non profit, to declare a world championship for a set distance. PTO is closest in position to do that.

@iron_mike Recommend you listen to Eric's excellent interview for ST to get an idea of the Challenge, IM, Roth backstory.
@synthetic "it is up to a third party, ideally non profit, to declare a world championship for a set distance - PTO [best]"
Ha ha ha ha! Think World Triathlon has the dibs on 'declaring', but 'world championships' in this pseudoanarchic sport is what the competing athletes perceive and 'declarations' are merely part of the influence mechanism.

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 23 15:02

Post #178 of 199 (3011 views)

iron_mike wrote:

-the crazy times have to be taken with a grain of salt: drafting has been a reality at roth from day one. plus some course changes make it a bit tricky to compare performances year on year.

I agree with a lot you say (Roth World Champs 2024 etc) but you are dead wrong about drafting. When I was there the lead moto was always 30 seconds ahead of the leader....and now theres live video proof, motos only behind or beside the men all day .....the record pace was set with nose in the wind..... And lots of hills

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 23 15:03

Post #179 of 199 (3009 views)

NordicSkier wrote:

Ajax Bay wrote:

Both Ryf and Ditlev completed at a faster average speed than Wellington and Frodeno.

I would argue that Chrissie Wellington's 2011 performance is still better than Daniela 2023.

2011 bike and shoe technology.
Non-aero road helmet.
sleeveless tri suit.
Her bike position was meh at best.

Give 2011 Chrissie modern gear and some wind tunnel time and I think she would have gone faster than Daniela and closed in on the 8 hour mark.

Without a doubt!

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 23 15:54

Post #180 of 199 (2921 views)

Plus the breakfast with bob interview with race director Felix on YouTube is quite nice too

Last edited by: Lacticturkey: Jun 26, 23 22:21

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 23 16:02

Post #181 of 199 (2909 views)

When Frodeno set his record he crashed on the bike ...he had no super shoes....plus setting any record is always tentative territory to broach because you dont have an example to show its possible

Last edited by: Lacticturkey: Jun 26, 23 22:22

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 23 0:51

Post #182 of 199 (2682 views)

Ajax Bay wrote:

synthetic wrote:

kajet wrote:

iron_mike wrote:

when i see the crowds, i think, "dammit, stop scratching your heads and just give the world champs to roth!" double down on the success and see how the images look on TV when you've got athletes climbing through the crowds on solarerberg, or getting great video from the swim.

Whence the assumption that Roth will kick Felix Walchshöfer to the curb the moment Ironman calls the town hall?
It’s all but guaranteed that they won’t.
Felix won’t rebrand either. Been there done that and they were treated like shit by Ironman (in their opinion).
And since I want to do this race one day, I sure as hell hope I won’t have to pay ironman thousands of dollars (qualifying event plus slot) to have an inferior race experience in Roth.

it is up to a third party, ideally non profit, to declare a world championship for a set distance. PTO is closest in position to do that.

@iron_mike Recommend you listen to Eric's excellent interview for ST to get an idea of the Challenge, IM, Roth backstory.
@synthetic "it is up to a third party, ideally non profit, to declare a world championship for a set distance - PTO [best]"
Ha ha ha ha! Think World Triathlon has the dibs on 'declaring', but 'world championships' in this pseudoanarchic sport is what the competing athletes perceive and 'declarations' are merely part of the influence mechanism.

at the same time it would be good to have the itu world champs price money in roth, 4th place in roth is 3 k and 7th 800 euro at least 7th place would get 3 k at itu worlds and cover some costs , i would assume there is 2 guys in the top 10 that got no appearance fee .

1 Magnus Elbaek Ditlev DEN 00:46:47 (6) 03:57:45 (1) 02:37:09 (3) 07:24:40 -13:24 EUR 25,000 2 Patrick Lange GER 00:46:42 (4) 04:10:02 (5) 02:30:27 (1) 07:30:04 -07:24 EUR 13,000 3 Ben Kanute USA 00:46:36 (1) 04:10:17 (6) 02:37:18 (4) 07:37:01 -04:35 EUR 8,000 4 Daniel Baekkegard DEN 00:46:40 (3) 04:14:01 (12) 02:36:04 (2) 07:39:59 -01:12 EUR 3,000 5 Joe Skipper GBR 00:51:18 (24) 04:09:04 (3) 02:40:52 (6) 07:44:10 -00:42 EUR 2,000 6 Bradley Weiss ZAF 00:48:33 (10) 04:12:07 (9) 02:42:38 (7) 07:46:06 -01:50 EUR 1,100 7 Jason Pohl CAN 00:50:05 (20) 04:14:40 (13) 02:39:17 (5) 07:46:59 -40:53 EUR 800 8 Sam Laidlow FRA 00:46:37 (2) 03:58:01 (2) 03:00:48 (20) 07:48:05 00:09 EUR 700 9 Andreas Dreitz GER 00:49:51 (13) 04:10:01 (4) 02:47:56 (9) 07:50:30 -09:45 EUR 600 10 Kieran Lindars GBR00:47:32 (8) 04:12:59 (11)02:47:21 (8) 07:50:53 -11:29 EUR 550

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [pk] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 23 0:55

Post #183 of 199 (2678 views)

Don't forget the sponsor bonuses though. Pretty sure they're there as, according to Felix, the whole reason that the Challenge Family was created was to build a network of races that sponsors would recognize so that PRO athletes get sponsor bonuses in Roth.

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [kajet] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 23 2:21

Post #184 of 199 (2606 views)

Pro Tri News commentary @18:52
https://podcasts.apple.com/...ri-news/id1559781865
Ditlev (Lemieux is his agent I think): Wetsuit, motos, air pressure, Laidlow implosion
Kanute went well on only second long course race.
Ryf exceptional.

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [kajet] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 23 2:23

Post #185 of 199 (2604 views)

kajet wrote:

Don't forget the sponsor bonuses though. Pretty sure they're there as, according to Felix, the whole reason that the Challenge Family was created was to build a network of races that sponsors would recognize so that PRO athletes get sponsor bonuses in Roth.

that is usually for top 3.

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [pk] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 23 18:53

Post #186 of 199 (2325 views)

PK - Thanks for posting the splits!!! Where did you find them??? I have not been able to find the complete results.

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 23 23:36

Post #187 of 199 (2272 views)

I hope Lange wasnt promised a bonus for breaking 2,30 on the run and then missing by 27 seconds.

Is langes run record 8 minutes faster than any other IM run? (700m short is almost 3 minutes)

Did anyone see how happy Kanute looked? His coach said on the live stream that Ben wanted to race the best fields and races instead of racking up easy wins. Was great to see that pay off for him. He was enjoying the spectators and atmosphere all day

I like how the swim course has so many spectators. The canal walls mean you almost have laser pointer direction accuracy. I remember looking up seeing all shapes of hot air balloons, bridges filled with people, banks with cheering people. Its definitely not a lonely or boring course

They used to use the motorbikes to part the frenzied supporters up solarer hill, but even there the lead athletes had to brave it alone....was slightly dangerous looking but glad all went well

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [Lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 23 0:13

Post #188 of 199 (2232 views)

ericmulk wrote:

PK - Thanks for posting the splits!!! Where did you find them??? I have not been able to find the complete results.

PTO: https://stats.protriathletes.org/...ge-roth/2023/results and here's Thorsten's analysis:
https://www.trirating.com/...3-analyzing-results/
Break out race for Pohl, pushing up in the Canadian 226km heirarchy (Beals/Sanders).
Felix 'wrap-up': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHSl8s6iK2M

Lacticturkey wrote:

I hope Lange wasnt promised a bonus for breaking 2,30 on the run and then missing by 27 seconds.
Is Lange's run record 8 minutes faster than any other IM run? (700m short is almost 3 minutes)
They used to use the motorbikes to part the frenzied supporters up solarer hill, but even there the lead athletes had to brave it alone....was slightly dangerous looking but glad all went well

Lange ran faster by the Sea of Galilee last year (but a few seconds longer as that course was 42.2km).
Thorsten (top runs, as at 1 Jan 2023) ( https://www.trirating.com/...an-distance-records/ )
1 Patrick Lange GER 02:30:31 IM Israel on 2022-11-25
Matt Hanson* USA (02:34:39) IM Texas on 2018-04-28
2 Gustav Iden NOR 02:34:50 IM Florida on 2021-11-06
3 Patrick Lange GER 02:35:10 Challenge Roth on 2022-07-03
4 Denis Chevrot FRA 02:35:18 IM Austria on 2021-09-19
Ivan Tutukin* RUS (02:35:19) IM Texas on 2018-04-28
Kristian Blummenfelt© NOR (02:35:23) IM Cozumel on 2021-11-21
5 Matt Hanson USA 02:35:29 IM Arizona on 2022-11-20

Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Jun 28, 23 5:23

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [Lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 23 7:29

Post #189 of 199 (2081 views)

Lacticturkey wrote:

iron_mike wrote:

-the crazy times have to be taken with a grain of salt: drafting has been a reality at roth from day one. plus some course changes make it a bit tricky to compare performances year on year.

I agree with a lot you say (Roth World Champs 2024 etc) but you are dead wrong about drafting. When I was there the lead moto was always 30 seconds ahead of the leader....and now theres live video proof, motos only behind or beside the men all day .....the record pace was set with nose in the wind..... And lots of hills

3:57 legit distance, legit no drafting is just so hard to conceive. It was not many years ago that the 2 hour barrier was finally broken on legit 70.3 distance. Insanity. And to run 2:37 off that.

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [kny] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 23 7:43

Post #190 of 199 (2051 views)

Note on Lange's run time: he used 50mm shoes, which I s illegal in IM. All efforts these guys put to ban aero bottle gains on bike they forgot the run rules

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 23 8:00

Post #191 of 199 (2034 views)

Looks like the PTO didn't mark Roth as a full distance in their ranking system so those who have that as their highest full distance aren't getting the 5% points boost. That should put Magnus into 1st...

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [kny] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 23 8:01

Post #192 of 199 (2032 views)

kny wrote:

Lacticturkey wrote:

.....the record pace was set with nose in the wind..... And lots of hills

3:57 legit distance, legit no drafting is just so hard to conceive. It was not many years ago that the 2 hour barrier was finally broken on legit 70.3 distance. Insanity. And to run 2:37 off that.

Just to note the bike route was <178km (so ~3 minutes longer for spec) and the run was 500+m short of a full marathon. Ditlev's ride was still at seconds over 4 hour :00 for 180km speed and Ryf's was <4:26 - about the same as her 2018 Kona ride. Both Ditlev and Ryf had swum front pack/pair and then both ran a PB (even if you add 2 minutes on for the extra half km) Ditlev had not broken 2:40; Ryf had never run better than 2:56 (back in 2016). Staggering.
For a laugh, have a look at Ryf's PTO ranking: https://stats.protriathletes.org/athlete/daniela-ryf

Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Jun 28, 23 10:02

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 23 8:11

Post #193 of 199 (2014 views)

Is it not because this is classified as a Platinum race? From what I remember Dylan Mc Neice saying, this race would get the bonus if it were Gold, Silver or Bronze.

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [N.Cornyn] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 23 8:13

Post #194 of 199 (2012 views)

N.Cornyn wrote:

Is it not because this is classified as a Platinum race? From what I remember Dylan Mc Neice saying, this race would get the bonus if it were Gold, Silver or Bronze.

Ah it appears that is correct. Don't know how I had missed that distinction before.

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 23 11:23

Post #195 of 199 (1917 views)

Next year will be the 50th anniversary Roth right?

Its going to be hard to top this massive day

Mens overall record⚡*moto free
Women's record⚡
Mens Run record ⚡
5 kona champions competing⚡
Sebbies last german LC⚡
Frodeno commentating⚡

I wonder what ideas they will have for thier 50th?? Surely will be epic

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [Lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 23 11:27

Post #196 of 199 (1909 views)

Lacticturkey wrote:

Next year will be the 50th anniversary Roth right?

.....

I wonder what ideas they will have for thier 50th?? Surely will be epic

The first Roth Triathlon was not in 1974 ...

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [Lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 23 12:10

Post #197 of 199 (1862 views)

"Next year will be the 50th anniversary Roth right?"
------------------------------
40th

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [Bavarian_Frank] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 23 12:27

Post #198 of 199 (1844 views)

Oh yes, 40th thanks!

This year Chrissie Wellington also came out to hand over the record laurels ...was pretty nice for the heritage vibe

Re: Challenge Roth 2023 - on the day [Lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 23 13:23

Post #199 of 199 (1795 views)

Well, If they got Chrissie and a couple of other legends to do a relay, for instance, that might honor the anniversary.

I could envisage a Germany vs. Britain vs. U.S. matchup of some sort.

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

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