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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [Hanginon] [ In reply to ]
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Alex Dowsett had NoPinz add a pocket for a hydration bladder in his TT suit baselayer. I wonder when this will be available for the masses?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz8vSN0FYjQ
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [adgatri] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting that a few of the Elites in the Mens UCI TT (happening now) are using bottle down the front of their suits including Remco Envepoel.
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [adgatri] [ In reply to ]
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adgatri wrote:
Alex Dowsett had NoPinz add a pocket for a hydration bladder in his TT suit baselayer. I wonder when this will be available for the masses?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz8vSN0FYjQ

Looked like a lot of guys had something down their kit in that TT. Clever use of an undershirt with pocket although in my experience using the same sized bladder, a tight-fitting aero tri kit holds it in place pretty snug.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if anyone has remarked on it, but I did notice that there was someone on the bike who had a bottle reversed and in a holder that extended it behind the stem and headset. Wondered if that had any aero effect. It's a cheap and quick setup and from a visual point of view doesn't look as odd as stuffing something down a skinsuit.
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [iainbanks1] [ In reply to ]
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And Remco just won the time trial with a shirt bottle down the front. It looks like shit. I blame triathlon. I'm mortified. Huge L for aesthetics in sport today...

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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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Do you have a screenshot? I used to do this a few years ago, but stopped.

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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Have a look at 15:56 of the PTO race highlights (51:17 long) it appears to be Magnus Ditlev.

There was no other rider with a bottle in that position. I have no idea if it does anything, but as everyone is trying new stuff all of a sudden, who knows.👼🏼
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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I mean, doesn't it do the same thing that the bottle in the jersey does? i.e., fill that empty space up? I may opt for this strategy again for my next race. It's a pain riding like this because the bike gets super squirrelly, but I'm willing to do it on a flat course like IMMD.



@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
Last edited by: cloy: Aug 11, 23 9:44
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [TheDuathlonShow] [ In reply to ]
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TheDuathlonShow wrote:
And Remco just won the time trial with a shirt bottle down the front. It looks like shit. I blame triathlon. I'm mortified. Huge L for aesthetics in sport today...

Pretty sure he never drunk from that bottle either ;-)
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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As I mentioned, I was curious, maybe this is another test option for the "Fast or Fiction with Ero sports" to test.
Minimal setup, dead easy to test. I'm doing a dead flat race on Sunday, easy to see if I get a fast bike result.
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [TheDuathlonShow] [ In reply to ]
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TheDuathlonShow wrote:
And Remco just won the time trial with a shirt bottle down the front. It looks like shit. I blame triathlon. I'm mortified. Huge L for aesthetics in sport today...


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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [iainbanks1] [ In reply to ]
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That is not a bottle down his shirt it is the radio but I think it serves the same purpose as a bottle down the shirt for aerodynamic purposes.
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [Passmore007] [ In reply to ]
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I thought that too to begin with but it is distinctly larger than the radio that Ganna had down his front.
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [TheDuathlonShow] [ In reply to ]
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TheDuathlonShow wrote:
And Remco just won the time trial with a shirt bottle down the front. It looks like shit. I blame triathlon. I'm mortified. Huge L for aesthetics in sport today...

Does it look worse than this though?

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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [iainbanks1] [ In reply to ]
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iainbanks1 wrote:
I thought that too to begin with but it is distinctly larger than the radio that Ganna had down his front.


Step 1 - Buy the biggest radio you can find.

Step 2 - Add a big battery, since these things are prone to losing power. Wink Wink..

Step 3 - Put it in some sort of protective covering, "just in case you crash"
Last edited by: timbasile: Aug 11, 23 11:57
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [ In reply to ]
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can some one smarter than myself explain how this rule in the IM competition rules doesn't prohibit things down the front of the suit on the bike.

(m) Except as set forth below in Section 5.02(b), additional equipment that has the effect of reducing wind resistance is prohibited during the bike segment of the Race (whether such equipment is worn under the athlete’s clothing, over the athlete’s clothing, or is otherwise attached to the athlete's body or the athlete’s bike); (DSQ)
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [iliketri] [ In reply to ]
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iliketri wrote:
can some one smarter than myself explain how this rule in the IM competition rules doesn't prohibit things down the front of the suit on the bike.

(m) Except as set forth below in Section 5.02(b), additional equipment that has the effect of reducing wind resistance is prohibited during the bike segment of the Race (whether such equipment is worn under the athlete’s clothing, over the athlete’s clothing, or is otherwise attached to the athlete's body or the athlete’s bike); (DSQ)

no, nobody can because it does (unless the item is a true hydration system which just happens to have aero benefits but this is not normally the case). that rule is pretty much never enforced - see the "DIY aero add ons at the 70.3 Worlds" thread
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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GCN's take on the 'bottle/bladder down the front' fairing (for TTs governed by ICU rules) - and also tricep and calf enhancement (!) - there are pictures (from the UK National 10km last week, Dowsett 3rd). Followed by an appraisal of BMC's latest apparition.

Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Sep 7, 23 12:15
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
Nine athletes tested - 5 men and 4 women. 28oz bottle and a 1.5 liter regular Crystal Geyser water bottle from the grocery store. Link to the YouTube video is down in my signature, but here are the results:

Note: Weights are combined athlete and all equipment. Watts are based on race pace for each individual athlete.

Tony - 180cm, 83.1 kg
  • 28oz Bottle (high on chest) = 2.31% drop in drag / 6 watts
  • 28oz bottle (low on belly) = .46% drop in drag / 1.2 watts
  • 1.5 Liter bottle = 6.02% drop in drag / 15.6 watts
  • 3 liter Camelbak bladder only = 4.17% drop in drag / 10.8 watts
  • Camelbak bladder + 28oz bottle stacked (see video) = 8.8% drop in drag / 22.9 watts
Meagan - 172cm, 74 kg
  • 28oz bottle = 2.31% drop in drag / 3.9 watts
  • 1.5 liter bottle = 5.56% drop in drag / 9.4 watts
Kristi - 167cm, 69.7kg
  • 28oz bottle = 3.19% / 5.7 watts
  • 1.5 liter bottle = 1.59% / 2.9 watts
Adam - 170cm, 86.2kg
  • 28oz bottle = 4.7% / 11.8 watts
  • 1.5 liter bottle = 8.55 / 21.4
You can erohighperformance.com to see the rest of the data (click on Aero Data in the main menu) as I'm too lazy to post it all, but the results are similar.


Obviously interesting results. Keeping the bottles high on the chest is key even though it may pull down the neck line. Unless it's a low neck line, in which case it'll kill you, which is covered in the video when we tested an athlete who came after our testing for this was complete. I questioned the results, but they were consistent and gel with what others are finding around the world. In fact, I've been jokingly asked to stop giving away secrets.


Keep in mind this is real world testing using an AeroLab sensor. We're measuring the differences as they're happening. For instance, Adam was going ~ 1km faster for the same power output and wind conditions with his drag savings. Impressive.


Other notes: The 28 oz bottle was empty, and the 1.5 liter bottle was about 1/3 way full (or 2/3 the way empty depending on your demeanor). All athletes tested at their race pace wattage.


Aero socks and calf sleeves are next. I wouldn't expect the same consistency in the results from that testing, but we may have found an interesting correlation for those who see a drag savings and those who don't. Oh, and we have a newly released aero shoe we're testing next week! Stay tuned.

Do you think the weight of the water bottle helped at all , have you done this with and without a full 1.5 L bottle ?

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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Triathletetoth wrote:
Jim@EROsports wrote:
Nine athletes tested - 5 men and 4 women. 28oz bottle and a 1.5 liter regular Crystal Geyser water bottle from the grocery store. Link to the YouTube video is down in my signature, but here are the results:

Note: Weights are combined athlete and all equipment. Watts are based on race pace for each individual athlete.

Tony - 180cm, 83.1 kg
  • 28oz Bottle (high on chest) = 2.31% drop in drag / 6 watts
  • 28oz bottle (low on belly) = .46% drop in drag / 1.2 watts
  • 1.5 Liter bottle = 6.02% drop in drag / 15.6 watts
  • 3 liter Camelbak bladder only = 4.17% drop in drag / 10.8 watts
  • Camelbak bladder + 28oz bottle stacked (see video) = 8.8% drop in drag / 22.9 watts
Meagan - 172cm, 74 kg
  • 28oz bottle = 2.31% drop in drag / 3.9 watts
  • 1.5 liter bottle = 5.56% drop in drag / 9.4 watts
Kristi - 167cm, 69.7kg
  • 28oz bottle = 3.19% / 5.7 watts
  • 1.5 liter bottle = 1.59% / 2.9 watts
Adam - 170cm, 86.2kg
  • 28oz bottle = 4.7% / 11.8 watts
  • 1.5 liter bottle = 8.55 / 21.4
You can erohighperformance.com to see the rest of the data (click on Aero Data in the main menu) as I'm too lazy to post it all, but the results are similar.


Obviously interesting results. Keeping the bottles high on the chest is key even though it may pull down the neck line. Unless it's a low neck line, in which case it'll kill you, which is covered in the video when we tested an athlete who came after our testing for this was complete. I questioned the results, but they were consistent and gel with what others are finding around the world. In fact, I've been jokingly asked to stop giving away secrets.


Keep in mind this is real world testing using an AeroLab sensor. We're measuring the differences as they're happening. For instance, Adam was going ~ 1km faster for the same power output and wind conditions with his drag savings. Impressive.


Other notes: The 28 oz bottle was empty, and the 1.5 liter bottle was about 1/3 way full (or 2/3 the way empty depending on your demeanor). All athletes tested at their race pace wattage.


Aero socks and calf sleeves are next. I wouldn't expect the same consistency in the results from that testing, but we may have found an interesting correlation for those who see a drag savings and those who don't. Oh, and we have a newly released aero shoe we're testing next week! Stay tuned.


Do you think the weight of the water bottle helped at all , have you done this with and without a full 1.5 L bottle ?

The importance is the shape of the bottle, not the weight. The actual amount of water in the bottle is irrelevant.
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [Mugen_EP] [ In reply to ]
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Mugen_EP wrote:
Triathletetoth wrote:
Jim@EROsports wrote:
Nine athletes tested - 5 men and 4 women. 28oz bottle and a 1.5 liter regular Crystal Geyser water bottle from the grocery store. Link to the YouTube video is down in my signature, but here are the results:

Note: Weights are combined athlete and all equipment. Watts are based on race pace for each individual athlete.

Tony - 180cm, 83.1 kg
  • 28oz Bottle (high on chest) = 2.31% drop in drag / 6 watts
  • 28oz bottle (low on belly) = .46% drop in drag / 1.2 watts
  • 1.5 Liter bottle = 6.02% drop in drag / 15.6 watts
  • 3 liter Camelbak bladder only = 4.17% drop in drag / 10.8 watts
  • Camelbak bladder + 28oz bottle stacked (see video) = 8.8% drop in drag / 22.9 watts
Meagan - 172cm, 74 kg
  • 28oz bottle = 2.31% drop in drag / 3.9 watts
  • 1.5 liter bottle = 5.56% drop in drag / 9.4 watts
Kristi - 167cm, 69.7kg
  • 28oz bottle = 3.19% / 5.7 watts
  • 1.5 liter bottle = 1.59% / 2.9 watts
Adam - 170cm, 86.2kg
  • 28oz bottle = 4.7% / 11.8 watts
  • 1.5 liter bottle = 8.55 / 21.4
You can erohighperformance.com to see the rest of the data (click on Aero Data in the main menu) as I'm too lazy to post it all, but the results are similar.


Obviously interesting results. Keeping the bottles high on the chest is key even though it may pull down the neck line. Unless it's a low neck line, in which case it'll kill you, which is covered in the video when we tested an athlete who came after our testing for this was complete. I questioned the results, but they were consistent and gel with what others are finding around the world. In fact, I've been jokingly asked to stop giving away secrets.


Keep in mind this is real world testing using an AeroLab sensor. We're measuring the differences as they're happening. For instance, Adam was going ~ 1km faster for the same power output and wind conditions with his drag savings. Impressive.


Other notes: The 28 oz bottle was empty, and the 1.5 liter bottle was about 1/3 way full (or 2/3 the way empty depending on your demeanor). All athletes tested at their race pace wattage.


Aero socks and calf sleeves are next. I wouldn't expect the same consistency in the results from that testing, but we may have found an interesting correlation for those who see a drag savings and those who don't. Oh, and we have a newly released aero shoe we're testing next week! Stay tuned.


Do you think the weight of the water bottle helped at all , have you done this with and without a full 1.5 L bottle ?

The importance is the shape of the bottle, not the weight. The actual amount of water in the bottle is irrelevant.

If that wt can be transferred to the pedals like Cambel back maybe not ???

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: Here you go - Chest/Belly Bottle Aero Test Results [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
Nine athletes tested - 5 men and 4 women. 28oz bottle and a 1.5 liter regular Crystal Geyser water bottle from the grocery store. Link to the YouTube video is down in my signature, but here are the results:

Note: Weights are combined athlete and all equipment. Watts are based on race pace for each individual athlete.

Tony - 180cm, 83.1 kg
  • 28oz Bottle (high on chest) = 2.31% drop in drag / 6 watts
  • 28oz bottle (low on belly) = .46% drop in drag / 1.2 watts
  • 1.5 Liter bottle = 6.02% drop in drag / 15.6 watts
  • 3 liter Camelbak bladder only = 4.17% drop in drag / 10.8 watts
  • Camelbak bladder + 28oz bottle stacked (see video) = 8.8% drop in drag / 22.9 watts
Meagan - 172cm, 74 kg
  • 28oz bottle = 2.31% drop in drag / 3.9 watts
  • 1.5 liter bottle = 5.56% drop in drag / 9.4 watts
Kristi - 167cm, 69.7kg
  • 28oz bottle = 3.19% / 5.7 watts
  • 1.5 liter bottle = 1.59% / 2.9 watts
Adam - 170cm, 86.2kg
  • 28oz bottle = 4.7% / 11.8 watts
  • 1.5 liter bottle = 8.55 / 21.4
You can erohighperformance.com to see the rest of the data (click on Aero Data in the main menu) as I'm too lazy to post it all, but the results are similar.


Obviously interesting results. Keeping the bottles high on the chest is key even though it may pull down the neck line. Unless it's a low neck line, in which case it'll kill you, which is covered in the video when we tested an athlete who came after our testing for this was complete. I questioned the results, but they were consistent and gel with what others are finding around the world. In fact, I've been jokingly asked to stop giving away secrets.


Keep in mind this is real world testing using an AeroLab sensor. We're measuring the differences as they're happening. For instance, Adam was going ~ 1km faster for the same power output and wind conditions with his drag savings. Impressive.


Other notes: The 28 oz bottle was empty, and the 1.5 liter bottle was about 1/3 way full (or 2/3 the way empty depending on your demeanor). All athletes tested at their race pace wattage.


Aero socks and calf sleeves are next. I wouldn't expect the same consistency in the results from that testing, but we may have found an interesting correlation for those who see a drag savings and those who don't. Oh, and we have a newly released aero shoe we're testing next week! Stay tuned.

That was really interesting, thanks for sharing. I watched some other videos too, including the calf guard tests. I bought Rule28 ones in 2021 after hearing a scientific triathlon podcast where a coach/aerodynamic scientist being interviewed said calf guards showed significant aero savings, and specifically mentioned the Rule28 ones. Here’s hoping the correct size will make a difference!
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