Mark Lemmon wrote:

It will be interesting to see how the trail running segment of IM's business develops under a new CEO.

There are a lot of trail runners who are not fans.
Check the qualifying requirements for High Lonesome:
https://www.highlonesome100.com/qualification
"(No UTMB Group owned races allowed)"

I wasn't aware of the IM investment (ownership?) Of UTMB. Reading that page and a little more about Ironman's vision, it looks like the smaller races are a little worried about the elephant crowding out their races. It's fair enough to say that the 5000+ person races goes against the spirit of suffering alone on the trail, and it's obvious there may be some financial pressure put on them. I have to say reading their "principled" stand against alleged Ironmans gender discrimination raises an eyebrow though. That comment feels to me like high lonesome 100 is hiding behind a small minority to cover for the fact that: they feel their business threatened and they simply don't want to pay whatever fees were asked to be associated with UTMB.

So is it confirmed what IMs stake in UTMB is?

I've long thought that ultra running is going to eat Ironman's lunch as it grabs the "impossibly hard things" category, so it's interesting to read this happened. I guess I wasn't paying attention that week...

North America specific.... they need to stick with the 140.6 races that do really well year in and year out. Which is more or less the races currently on the docket with the exception of Maryland and Canada. Cozumel doesn't draw a huge crowd but I get why it exists. We shall see what Penticton draws this year but if it's "just" 1500 athletes they need to axe the race. Penticton just isn't the draw it was the first time around. Nobody cares. Whistler was a better draw, IMHO, but the difficulty of the course meant lower registration numbers each year.

Texas
Lake Placid
Mont Tremblant
Wisconsin
Chattanooga
California
Florida
Arizona
Cozumel

They need to do a better job spacing out the races. Placid and Tremblant are too close to each other both geographically and on the calendar. Move Placid to the end of June to give two months separation.

There really needs to be another spring race. I'm not sure what race works in May though. FL and AZ are too hot.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Re Whistler… city management were very happy to see Ironman leave as are the village owners who want sport contained within village boundaries so people spend $ and can come and go.

Re Penticton i too am curious how 2023 goes. Do know after last years race a 5 year contract was signed.

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@rhyspencer

Chattanooga and California could work in May.

I just had a look on booking.com what Penticton hotels were charging during race weekend.
Room + taxes is over $300/night for the Spanish Villa, a very mediocre hotel. LOL.

Re Penticton i too am curious how 2023 goes. Do know after last years race a 5 year contract was signed.


Like a lot of tings the Pandemic has been highly disruptive to Endurance Sports Races and Events. Last year GENERALLY numbers were down from 2019 numbers, but this year the trend is to be back at and for some exceed those numbers. We shall see. Triathlon perhaps a slightly different than say, running - the overall participation numbers in ALL triathlon races actually peaked in 2012 - 13 and then started a gradual downhill slide to 2018, with a bit of an up-tick into 2019 . . then the pandemic!

Between 2012 and 2019 - IM races seemed like they were growing in numbers while other non-IM races were dropping. If you just existed within the IM world - ONLY doing IM races, during that time frame, you were getting a warped view of what was really going on.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Chatt 70.3 is in May but they could swap dates with the IM.

Would the water be too cool for IM Cal in May?

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

On my side of The Pond, IM Has this week
- completely sacked off the Staffs 70.3
- dumbed down Bolton to a 70.3 from the full ut previously was.

(That follows their predatory take over of Challenge Weymouth a few years ago and dumbing that down too).

Will be interesting to see whether the local councils decided they'd not pay the asking price from M-Dot, given the funding crises we have in all local governments, inflation at the rate of a tinpot state, etc. Or if M-dot see the £££ in people's pockets to spend on expensive races is dwindling (people I see are out of the tri habit following 2 years of Covid restrictions, and the economy in Blighty is bolloxed post Fhexit too. Plenty of non M-dot races have disappeared following covid at half and full distance.

No worse than Coeur d’Alene in June.

They tried to move ve Wisconsin to June a few years ago but got so much backlash (rightfully so) that they changed it back to September.

In states with real winters, I think the local/regional Ironman needs to be at the end of summer to fit into a healthy triathlon ecosystem/economy/culture. At least that's the case in Wisconsin. Southern states probably have a bit more flexibility with decent outdoor training and racing weather for more of he year.

I do wish they would find another IM in Florida or maybe even in Georgia for the spring. Course may be difficult to find for Florida though. But at least the weather would be good and good for those that live in the south and can train outside year round.

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blog

Arizona was in April up until 2009. They could have a Spring and Fall race here in AZ.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

To supplement what you said - Messick told Tim Heming his departure was delayed (i.e., also not caused) by the Hamburg tragedy.

https://twitter.com/.../1677361935858245636

I usually take what Messick says with a grain of salt, but this checks out.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

It was the World Championship race at St. George last year, and I was waiting in line with the bike valet volunteers for the first pro to come in to T2. The volunteer captain had quizzed our group asking who was truly experienced at grabbing the pros bikes when they came in hot.

The woman who was at the head of the line insisted she was.

Of course, she wasn’t. The pro threw his bike at her and she bobbled it.

A man stepped up and smoothly grabbed the bike, handing it off to a volunteer.

That man was Andrew Messick.

I think it says a good bit about an executive that they not only manage from the executive suite but are on the ground watching the details. It made a good impression with me.

I’m not up on all the ins and outs of Ironman management, but I appreciate the changes over the years that have made it less time-pressured and less financially risky to sign up for an Ironman race. Time was you had to register the first day a race opened to be sure you could get to race, or in the case of IM AZ, show up and volunteer to get early registration. With the addition of more races, you can take a bit more time. Also, the pandemic deferral policies have been more athlete-friendly than the previous, “buy the race insurance or tough luck” stance.

I think my friend Liz Kollar was involved in suggesting some of these changes when she went to work for Ironman several years ago with the mission of making Ironman more appealing to clubs and kids. But ultimately it needs buy-in from the top.

The addition of women race announcers to most 70.3 and full Ironman events is also an excellent move. When I was at Ironman 70.3 Indian Wells for an audition as a race announcer, (so yes, I am biased by my hopes to go work as an Ironman race announcer some day) I got to sit behind the scenes the night before the race at their “ready to go” meeting. What I heard was a lot of safety talk, a lot of discussion of making sure there was enough post-race food, and plenty of volunteers. It was a very cooperative team, all focused on making it a positive experience for the athletes.

Ultimately, I have to judge the company by the consumer experience, and that is still top notch at the full and half distances.

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Sharon McN
@IronCharo
#TeamZoot
Clif Bar Pace Team 2003-2018

A full IM in Augusta during the spring would probably pull in good registration numbers. The 70.3 always does really well in September.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Maybe swap Eagleman & IM Maryland on the calendar?

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

 

Before Messick was CEO, when I did an Ironman event, I felt like an athlete.

After Messick became CEO, when I did an Ironman event, I felt like a consumer being milked for my money.

Maybe you're just getting old :)

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E-DUB
Chief Janitor @Slowtwitch
Life is short. Dont be mad all the time.

I think you'd mostly want to blame the owner who gave the CEO his marching orders.

According to Dan it was Messick himself. Like you however, I’m not buying it either.

I want to add a really good story about Andrew from personal experiences perspective.

First, at Kona he came to the Canadian breakfast and took the mic and thanked us and Subaru and highlighted how before ever being employed by Ironman his first IM was in fact in Penticton. His Kona schedule is nuts and he and Mike Reilly as well took 2 hours out of their day to join us.

Race day 5am on the pier he came to body marking volounteering group to kick off his day. Thanked us for getting up so bloody early. It was clear it was all very personal. He even “lent” his IM Breitling watch for a test to a guy beside me.

Hes also done races with no one knowing to honour athletes that have passed.

So while yes i am critical of the business operations at times i also get its a super hard fucking job. The gift and curse of Ironman is a passionate customer base. Like Man U or Wrexham or my beloved welsh rugby team or Toronto Maple Leafs, that level of fan commitment makes it easy to be super critical (while continuing to give them our money!)

I think the single biggest investment IM can do is hire a PR firm. Their communication is and has always been terrible. And its left Andrew fending for himself in some very difficult situations (starting back with 50 women to Kona and onwards…) Joining podcasts as a CEO on a whim is asking for more trouble than good. Plan it out and bypass small time and talk to Rich Roll not “how they train” guy. No bank CEO joins BNN on a whim. They have a team, speaking notes, and are ready for the hard Qs. They are not eating lunch at the same time😂

Looking forward to learn who is successor and her/his/they vision.

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@rhyspencer

I recall taking my bike through check out at 70.3 WC last year. Messick was checking the wrist bands and bike numbers.

It struck the cynic in me as a carefully chosen way to demonstrate his humility and willingness to volunteer—in a very highly visible place that many would notice.

I would have been more impressed if I saw him picking up trash or putting toilet paper rolls in the porta potties.

He has navigated IM through some pretty choppy waters, but I came here to write what is in the quote. The number of athletes trained at a high enough level to make Kone/Nice a world championship is only going to decline for the foreseeable future. Many factors impact this, including demographics and competing interests that are not endurance-athletics-focused among upcoming generations. If *we* have been discussing such things here, it is a certainty that IM/Messick have conducted a more detailed, data-driven projection of what the next decade looks like. Interests evolve.

Still, there are potential options for growth as the traditional events shrink/become less profitable. Now, I *hate* this, but gravel cycling is a thing. What about a signature event that depends on a gravel bike leg? In the right venue, the run could be trail, paved or a mix. The swim? Maybe no different than present, but the community of swimmers and gravel riders might be small. I dunno. But, still, I think that a creative approach might elevate the brand and maybe that new thinking requires a new CEO. Maybe Messick knows that and his devotion to triathlon/IM has him convinced that the community is better served by a CEO with fresh ideas. No matter how much a leader contributes to advancing an organization, there is a time for someone new. Bad CEOs hang on, drag the organization down (or fail to optimally propel it) and good CEOs recognize that the time has come to turn over the leadership. Maybe I'm an optimist, but perhaps that is a contributor to Messick's decision - let's get a new CEO and new ideas to continue advancing triathlon/IM.

Maybe. But, even if the successor is known from a previously prepared plan, there are some potentially advantageous optics to conducting an (inter)national search for the successor. That way, the 'best' CEO will be identified, obviously!