Still loving this saddle. Best I've ever had.

Ronan McLaughlin put it on his 10 best of 2022 with quite the endorsement:

https://cyclingtips.com/...2-ronan-mc-laughlin/

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

As someone who has ridden the Dash saddle with built in BTS mount I have ejected a lot of bottles over time until I found the right cage. The cages in you picture would eject a full bottle riding off the curb. I found even the X-Lab Gorilla cage ejected bottles and the Dash isn't as horizontal as yours. Any split at the base of the cage as you go over a bump puts shock load on the bottle and cage forcing and gap or spilt open releasing pressure on the cage and it gradually creeps back before ejecting. I was lucky enough to get a couple of Supacz carbon cages they no longer produce I can't find pictures of online that is in essence a reverse cage made for BTS that is essentially this Enve cage reversed with the screw mounts on the front side and the base runs the length of the bottle clipping into the indent of the bottle. With open sides you can get your bottle in on an angle as you reach around. I haven't ejected a bottle since using them and don't use rubber bands to hold them in.

https://www.racycles.com/...nve-bottle-cage-8897

Agreed on cages. I wrote at the bottom of my post that we’re releasing a bts cage. It won’t have any splits. It won’t eject bottles regardless of how horizontal. Holds on course IM bottles without ejecting as well as 33oz standard diameter bottles.
Cages in photos: tossed on as I didn’t want to show our prototype cages yet.
You can mount the cages of your choosing - there are threads dedicated to that topic of best bts set ups, also.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

We grabbed some more photos of the BTS cage set ups.

I'm headed out today to test our own BTS cage prototype which so far is incredibly easy for bottle entry/exit, securely holds 33oz bottles as well as on-course Gatorade narrow bottles over the roughest roads. Looking forward to showing images in the coming months.

For now, this is what we're suggesting, though we find the below cages insufficient over bumps, difficult for bottle entry/exit and require a rubber band added to loop over nozzle or only using short 20oz bottles, but this is why we're releasing our own bts cage:

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

I had the EXACT same feedback when I trialed the Dash Stage saddle. Ended up going back to Bi-Saddle and been using it ever since. It's good but not perfect.

Is the Wove available without the extra carbon at the end? I need to carry 2 bottles BTS and would prefer to keep my current mount on my P5D, which the Wove mount would probably interfere with.

Hi there, the current V8 TT saddle comes with the rear. If you angle your bottles on the P5D, you may be OK.

There is the possibility of us doing a bit of custom work to remove the rear, but it would be a one-off project. Email me at nlehecka@wovebike.com if interested.

We also have a saddle we'll release in the coming months with no rear with a more narrow nose that's ideal for TT people needing a narrow nose, and aimed squarely at road/gravel/mtb'rs.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Okay, I might be preaching to the choir here as I don't spend much time on ST these days so I was unaware of Nick and the Wove team but I will be don't my best to earn one of these saddles.

The saddle itself looks amazing but I'll look to buy one for how quality a guy Nick is. Just purchased his rig and he walked me through every bit and piece of choices he made and all this on a great deal given.

This saddle is faster than my skills deserve but this saddle is now my inspiration to work harder on my TT position to prove to myself I've earned the right to buy one.

Knowing it's coming from.Nick, I know this will be a great product, well thought through and focused on getting the most of those last watts we're after.

Bravo! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

Thank you for the kind words! We look forward to hearing how you like your saddle (and my former TT bike).

As a general note: we are launching a demo program where people interested in demo'ing a saddle can go to wovebike.com/demo and sign up for a 2-week demo.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

MilestheDog,

What's the width of the new Mags saddle you are doing?

Hi there, the nose of the Mags saddle is about 30.5mm at the nose, and the rear is identical to out V8 saddle at 146mm at the widest point

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Thank you.

We heavily referenced some Slowtwitch messageboard threads in some recent Instagram posts, so I'll link to them here with snippets of captions pasted here.

#SADDLEBATTLE POST

We’ve included #saddlebattle in a number of our posts. This hashtag comes from a 2018 messageboard post on Slowtwitch by kileyay, in which he contended, “your most important piece of equipment in triathlon, by far, is unquestionably your saddle. rappstar made this statement some years ago and it has stuck with me ever since, even as I have not learned how true it is until recently.

I contend that this single piece of equipment, properly configured, can mean 30 watts in terms of performance, which is 10x or 15x the delta between Zipp and Yolo, or Enve and Flo, or whatever.

But to believe my contention, you must accept the following as axiomatic: the rotation of the hips (on a time trial bike), which is a function that is critically dependent on the part under your ass, has a causal relationship to power production and aero that is unsurpassed by any other component on the bike. Who vouches for that statement? I do.”

SADDLE $/gram IN THE AGE OF PEAK AERO POST

The Wove V8 TT/tri saddle was conceptualized out of a wanting for what was not available in the market: a TT saddle that...
-is well cushioned.
-provides ample soft tissue relief.
-has a nose that stays narrower longer to reduce thigh rub
-holds the rider in place.
-has a squared off nose to prevent rolling off the front.
-feels good to sit up on for long periods of time.
-includes an integrated water bottle mount.
-is low weight.

Three saddles that were close to meeting the above needs, but lack two or more of the above attributes, are the PN3.0, Stride and Hilo Pro. The V8 is designed with all of these desired attributes in mind. Looking solely at weight, the averaged weight of those three saddles is more than double the weight of a Wove V8 saddle, and the V8 has no rider weight limit and surpasses ISO testing for strength.

In 2017, kileyay from the Slowtwitch messageboards did a crowd funded windtunnel test. He ended up titling the report, “Triathlon Bikes in the Age of Peak Aero”, because only 100g of drag separated the six bikes tested (see report in our linktree). kileyay later concluded that, if one had to choose, money spent on reducing overall bike weight might be money better spent than seeking to reduce aero drag, if the athlete is on the right saddle and already using high-level TT/tri equipment.

If we take the average weight and price of the three comparison TT saddles mentioned earlier and compare them to the weight savings of the Wove V8, the increase in price of the V8 compared to these other TT saddles comes out to $2.30 per gram saved. For comparison, if we look at a set of NSW 353 wheels and the same company’s 303 S wheels, the reduction in weight comes out to $12.70 per gram saved. We’ll let you decide if during a TT/triathlon, where accelerations are rare, a reduction in rotating mass is worth 5.5x more than the price/gram value the Wove V8 offers.

We’ve created the V8 saddle to check boxes for attributes missing in the current TT saddle market, and we propose that there’s value in the price per gram saved for those seeking that performance advantage.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

$595 USD for a saddle??? No matter which way you spin it that's crazy expensive. Dash $229, Gebiomized $278, Fizik Mistica carbon $250, what makes your saddle worth more than double the price of those?

Very fair question.

The Dash Custom is $575, has minimal padding, not ISO tested for strength/durability (to our knowledge. but we respect the fellow Colorado-based company and I rode a tri.7 from 2010 to 2014).

Our saddles are well padded and greatly surpass ISO testing and have no weight limit. That is largely due to the rails and shell being one piece and made at the same time with the unidirectional carbon fiber from the rails spread throughout the entire shell of the saddle. So, part of the cost is that innovation. You may not need or value that innovation.

The two other saddles you mention are considerably more heavy, not made in the US, not handmade, so it's like comparing a Porsche to a Kia. Now, a Kia will get you from point A to point B just as well as the Porsche, but the the latter does have performance benefits and significantly greater investment in innovation.

Another innovation: our foam and cover material are molded directly onto the shell of our saddle, both beginning as liquids. We aren't merely slapping/gluing on something made overseas. On that, We could go overseas and pay $5/hour or less to have our saddles made. That doesn't sit well with our values. We respect if others do not share our values.

Further, our shell and rails will last 10+ years and we offer foam/cover replacement (free during the first year and for a nominal fee after the first year).
We also have a 30 day money back, no questions asked guarantee, and a Demo program where people can try a saddle for 2 weeks for free.

Last, our saddles are darn comfortable and as pointed out in this instagram post, our saddle is 5.5x cheaper $/g than the cost of reducing weight in a set of wheels.

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now, in reference to this thread ...

The existence of Porsche and Ferrari does not exclude or in almost any way affect the existence of or market performance of Kia and Hyundai. There's room in the market for both. Similarly, it would be a difficult argument to make or prove that the existence of Darimo, THM, Gelu, Schmolke, Tune, Gemini, the new Scott TT frame, $3k aerobars, or $5k wheels affect the existence and continued introduction of more affordable bikes and bike parts that help make our sports more inclusive. But, we have no issue with value signaling. Regarding the role of product reviews of high end products, I love what James Huang recently did comparing the top of the line Canyon to a lower end model on which he swapped to Hunt wheels.

There may actually be less of an effect of high-end goods on the inclusiveness in sport than there is an effect caused by demand for cheaper goods on ethically concerning working conditions in locations where those cheaper goods are produced. Reviews that only push for lower pricing might help drive that latter effect: https://escapecollective.com/...de-by-modern-slaves/

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Not sure any serious athlete looking to spend $600 on a saddle would weigh more than 85kgs so a bit of a moot point? And the Kia to Ferrari comparison is a bit silly-you can clearly show the performance increase of the Ferrari, can you similarly show the performance increase of your saddle? In your post above you talk about performance increase and 30 watts-what is this based on and compared to?

As for the custom Dash saddle it is very much custom, varying the saddle density in various parts based on the individual riders weight. Do you also do this? Also includes custom colors, logos etc, again if you are wanting to do comparisons do you do this? And the Dash saddle is lighter. And if none of this matters you can still get the stock hand made version for $229, so wouldn't a fair comparison be the stock saddle?

Hi gunna, coming out the gate "gunning".

Our saddle is hand made and you can choose your choice of custom grip on the cover and some customers have requested extra layers of carbon on the shell (track riders). The Dash is 11g lighter. Ours has over 10mm of long lasting, high quality foam. (again, we highly respect what Weston has created with Dash and anyone who walks through a current day transition area is bound to see hundreds of Dash saddles, which is awesome).

We have a number of track riders who weigh more than 85kg riding our saddle and there are plenty of amazing athletes who weigh more than 85k and we respect them, welcome them and include them. Probably best to only compare company's weight policies if they make passing ISO-testing public.

We did not make the 30 watt claim. Please see this link to the #saddlebattle Slowtwitch post by kileyay; there's a healthy debate over there. We had his statements in quotes.

Ferrari vs Kia: see the description of our innovation, and see our sub 140g weight - some folks consider low weight to be a performance advantage. we aimed to make a darn comfortable saddle - kileyay made the point that saddle comfort is a performance advantage that he attempted to quantify.

Thank you for your questions.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Thanks for the responses. Not sure I agree re the innovation-at the end of the day all that matters is results. Also edit-the weight limit for Dash is 95Kgs.

If your saddle is super comfortable then some people would gladly spend that money, as would some people for a bit of bling or bespoke item. And again that's fine if that's your selling point.

But things get murky when you start to try and throw in performance and watts saved etc, especially when comparing to existing saddles like I have, hence my initial questions. All the best.

Thank you.

To clarify: kileyay's point is that the saddle is your most important piece of equipment. What we wrote was that 'some of Wove's DNA can be found in kileyay's post.' He is claiming that the right saddle can mean an increase in watts and reduction in drag. He is not saying that saddle is a Wove saddle (Wove did not exist when he wrote that post) and other than sharing how much our saddle weighs, we are not making performance-gain statements. We agree with Kiley that the saddle is the most important piece of cycling equipment.

In that same post, mathematics wrote, "The right saddle isn't necessarily +30 watts, but the wrong saddle can easily be -30 watts."

While Wove did not exist when kileay wrote that post, he was aware that I was prototyping saddles. We both lived in Philadelphia while I was working on my PhD and we spent a good chunk of time biking together and having lively conversations that are reflected in Wove's products and values. Here's the saddle I was riding/testing at that time: link here.

Innovation: having carbon rails made of unidirectional carbon fiber that spreads throughout the entire shell of the saddle and both pieces being molded at the same time and greatly surpassing ISO standards with 7mm round carbon rails. And then molding liquid foam and cover material directly onto the shell at the same time and doing all of this at a sub-140g weight. (without foam, our shell+rails weighs 70g)

- Maybe you'd need to hold this super light, 30cm long saddle in your hand and see just how well padded the saddle is to truly appreciate all of this.
- Maybe you'd need to work in composites to appreciate this.
- Maybe you'd need to understand that ISO testing consists of 250,000 repetitions of 240lb/1,000 newton-metres on the rear of the saddle - again, we greatly surpassed that weight/force.
If all of that is not considered innovation... well I'll be damned. ha.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

I’ve been wanting to try one of these badly, but struggle on the price also. I have a tub of saddles that suck and still ride one that sucks. Now, if this solved my problem would be the best 600 I ever spent, no question there.

Question, any plans to make it without the extra part on the rear to mount a bottle?

Have you seen our demo program?

wovebike.com/demo

And we have a 30 day money back guarantee.

As of now, no plans to make without the integrated bottle mount, BUT several pros have chosen to not use it and use their bike’s bottle cage mount system or a zip tie solution with no issue. According to British Cycling, the longer rear is more aero (see the direct mount saddle on the Hope Olympic track bike we had a part in).

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

I looked early on and didn’t see either. Maybe I missed it or maybe it is new.

Thanks for pointing it out.

There's a number of folks riding around on Specialized Mirror saddles that retail for $450. $595 doesn't seem that high in comparison to those saddles.

I have been thinking about trying the Mags road saddle but I have one more option I want to try before trying the Wove.

I'll be using the Wove V8 for Unbound XL next week.

Why?
- It's the lightest saddle i have (lighter than my Antares 00, Selle Italia SLR, etc)
- I don't worry about it breaking on any of the gnarly stuff on course because ISO testing is way more brutal than anything i'll put it through
- But mostly, it's the most comfortable saddle I've used in all the positions I ride in (tops, hoods, drops, and aerobars). For 350 miles of gravel, comfort is one of the most important considerations

Have you ever been to any triathlon, ever?

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MS: Exercise Science
Your speed matters a lot, sometimes you need to be very fast, where sometimes you need to breakdown your speed.

Just added Joe Skipper to our roster. He's been on our V8 saddle for a bit now and he's all in as of this morning, so we're excited about that.

Our roster now includes:

Rudy von Berg (with us since 2019)
Jason West (shot some great video with him last week that we'll have on Instagram soon)
Joe Skipper
Matt McElroy
Neah Evans
Josie Knight
Jason Pohl

some additional top 30 PTO ranked athletes have been testing.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram