Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 13:58

Post #26 of 118 (711 views)

SDG wrote:

FishyJoe wrote:

SDG wrote:

This is something else I don't understand about this shooting but will wait for the facts to come out. I know in my kids schools, the doors are locked all day long....no exception. If you want in, there is one way in and its through the office and you have to be buzzed in. There is no way this could have happened at my kids schools unless

1) he shot his way in through the glass or

2) the office accicentally buzzed him in.

All the other doors are locked, made of steel etc.

I suppose someone could shoot their way in through the window and there we are, but there is no way a person is just walking into my kids school with a gun. Not possible.

Add an armed secutiry guard ( one of my kids schools has an armed cop there all day everyday) and I feel pretty good about it. ( Not sure every district in Texas has an armed cop there all day)

Sounds like your kids go to school in a prison.

All the schools I went to growing up were open campuses. Big windows. When you step outside you feel the sun in your face. I rode my bike to school by myself. Then I think about what kids have today and wonder if they really know what freedom is.

No actually it's quite nice. It's a neighborhood school and many are taken by their parents in golf carts, walk on the sidewalks or ride their bikes. They leave their bikes at the front of the school and no one uses a bike lock, just lays their bike down. Skateboards, scooters everywhere and nothing locked up. Teachers are all great, energetic and the class size is small and well funded. Each kid has a ipad. They have recess twice a day and parents often come eat in the cafeteria and bring kids lunch. My kid loves the chick fil a I bring him all the time and time we eat up there.

You can have all of this and have the school locked down during the day with each door outside locked. My kids probably don't even know the doors are locked. Each class has a large window to the outside and they can daydream watching the squirrels all they want.

Same thing with my kids' schools in Wyoming. I'm really surprised that this isn't SOP everywhere.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [jmh] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 13:58

Post #27 of 118 (711 views)

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

gall1972 wrote:

Scary to think what this country would be like if there weren't deterrents in place such as school police, building security protocols, mental health protocols, and the education and encouragement of students to report things they see and hear.

Imagine what's deterred and stopped because of these protocols already in place .... and then it's really scary to think that the above isnt anywhere near enough to stop this chaos.

I don't have to imagine what it would be like without those things as when I was growing up, we had none of those things. In all of the terrible sadness and anger because of this event, I still haven't seen anyone address the issue of why these things are happening now and not in the 70's and 80's.

When I was growing up, as with many of you, guns were everywhere and very accessible to kids, teenagers, adutls etc. I grew up in Texas and gun laws were less restrictive then than they are now. We would dove hunt after HS and I parked my truck in school parking lot with shotguns and ammo at the ready all dove season. As did most of the guys in my class. Not once was I concerned about a school shooter and we had some pretty weird kids at our school. I was right not to be concerned because these things didn't happen.

Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows.

I do agree the gun laws should be changed to outlaw AR15 ( no reason to have one),
2) waiting period for any guns ( at least a week)
3) universal background checks ( I think we already have this)
, 4) no one under the age of 21 can buy a gun,
5) outlaw all semi-autos ( even pistols)

I still don't think this would prevent a lot of these situations but hopefully a start.

This not entirely correct. Texas gun laws are far less restrictive now than 7 years ago.

1. In 2021 the need for a conceal carry permit was eliminated. Prior to that you needed to take a class/practical application for a license.

2. In 2016 you could for the first time open, sorry I mean douche, carry in Texas. At the time douche carrying required a permit.

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

I suppose if the argument is these things are happending because its easier to walk down the street and get to a school while open carrying, then OK. But I don't think people are seeing these animals on the way to the school and saying ( nothing to see here because open carry is legal) and going about their way. If I saw a teenager walking down my street ( I live right next to a school) with an AR 15 you can bet your ass 911 is getting called. I imagine I am not unique.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:06

Post #28 of 118 (708 views)

ericMPro wrote:

You wouldn’t need to defend indefinitely, you’d just need to defend for 18-20 “child-deaths” worth of time (based on recent massacres) until LEO arrives on scene.

Gunfire defectors, auto locking doors, panic buttons, cameras, defense in depth with redundant and bulletproof entry points and internal segregation points, comms for teachers in mutually supporting classrooms, procedures for sweeping up straggler kids in hallways. Most of these resources are already on site just not arranged in the right spatial or sequential arrangement.

E

It’s un fucking believable that anyone would think this is the right solution - for schools, FFS - to shootings.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:08

Post #29 of 118 (700 views)

SDG wrote:

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

gall1972 wrote:

Scary to think what this country would be like if there weren't deterrents in place such as school police, building security protocols, mental health protocols, and the education and encouragement of students to report things they see and hear.

Imagine what's deterred and stopped because of these protocols already in place .... and then it's really scary to think that the above isnt anywhere near enough to stop this chaos.

I don't have to imagine what it would be like without those things as when I was growing up, we had none of those things. In all of the terrible sadness and anger because of this event, I still haven't seen anyone address the issue of why these things are happening now and not in the 70's and 80's.

When I was growing up, as with many of you, guns were everywhere and very accessible to kids, teenagers, adutls etc. I grew up in Texas and gun laws were less restrictive then than they are now. We would dove hunt after HS and I parked my truck in school parking lot with shotguns and ammo at the ready all dove season. As did most of the guys in my class. Not once was I concerned about a school shooter and we had some pretty weird kids at our school. I was right not to be concerned because these things didn't happen.

Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows.

I do agree the gun laws should be changed to outlaw AR15 ( no reason to have one),
2) waiting period for any guns ( at least a week)
3) universal background checks ( I think we already have this)
, 4) no one under the age of 21 can buy a gun,
5) outlaw all semi-autos ( even pistols)

I still don't think this would prevent a lot of these situations but hopefully a start.

This not entirely correct. Texas gun laws are far less restrictive now than 7 years ago.

1. In 2021 the need for a conceal carry permit was eliminated. Prior to that you needed to take a class/practical application for a license.

2. In 2016 you could for the first time open, sorry I mean douche, carry in Texas. At the time douche carrying required a permit.

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

I suppose if the argument is these things are happending because its easier to walk down the street and get to a school while open carrying, then OK. But I don't think people are seeing these animals on the way to the school and saying ( nothing to see here because open carry is legal) and going about their way. If I saw a teenager walking down my street ( I live right next to a school) with an AR 15 you can bet your ass 911 is getting called. I imagine I am not unique.

Why would you call the police on someone doing something totally legal?

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [chaparral] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:10

Post #30 of 118 (699 views)

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

gall1972 wrote:

Scary to think what this country would be like if there weren't deterrents in place such as school police, building security protocols, mental health protocols, and the education and encouragement of students to report things they see and hear.

Imagine what's deterred and stopped because of these protocols already in place .... and then it's really scary to think that the above isnt anywhere near enough to stop this chaos.

I don't have to imagine what it would be like without those things as when I was growing up, we had none of those things. In all of the terrible sadness and anger because of this event, I still haven't seen anyone address the issue of why these things are happening now and not in the 70's and 80's.

When I was growing up, as with many of you, guns were everywhere and very accessible to kids, teenagers, adutls etc. I grew up in Texas and gun laws were less restrictive then than they are now. We would dove hunt after HS and I parked my truck in school parking lot with shotguns and ammo at the ready all dove season. As did most of the guys in my class. Not once was I concerned about a school shooter and we had some pretty weird kids at our school. I was right not to be concerned because these things didn't happen.

Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows.

I do agree the gun laws should be changed to outlaw AR15 ( no reason to have one),
2) waiting period for any guns ( at least a week)
3) universal background checks ( I think we already have this)
, 4) no one under the age of 21 can buy a gun,
5) outlaw all semi-autos ( even pistols)

I still don't think this would prevent a lot of these situations but hopefully a start.

This not entirely correct. Texas gun laws are far less restrictive now than 7 years ago.

1. In 2021 the need for a conceal carry permit was eliminated. Prior to that you needed to take a class/practical application for a license.

2. In 2016 you could for the first time open, sorry I mean douche, carry in Texas. At the time douche carrying required a permit.

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

I suppose if the argument is these things are happending because its easier to walk down the street and get to a school while open carrying, then OK. But I don't think people are seeing these animals on the way to the school and saying ( nothing to see here because open carry is legal) and going about their way. If I saw a teenager walking down my street ( I live right next to a school) with an AR 15 you can bet your ass 911 is getting called. I imagine I am not unique.

Why would you call the police on someone doing something totally legal?

Just a hunch. We have a strong neighborhood watch, a lot of stay at home moms always on the lookout and a very safe neighborhood. We see something, we say something. Works well for our little utopia.

I wouldn't like a teenager walking around the school with an AR15. You do you and I will do me.

Last edited by: SDG: May 25, 22 14:12

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:11

Post #31 of 118 (691 views)

SDG wrote:

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

Any idea on what's different about guns in the 70's and 80's that were easy to get and were in every house you knew and those available today?

Suffer Well.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:13

Post #32 of 118 (685 views)

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

gall1972 wrote:

Scary to think what this country would be like if there weren't deterrents in place such as school police, building security protocols, mental health protocols, and the education and encouragement of students to report things they see and hear.

Imagine what's deterred and stopped because of these protocols already in place .... and then it's really scary to think that the above isnt anywhere near enough to stop this chaos.

I don't have to imagine what it would be like without those things as when I was growing up, we had none of those things. In all of the terrible sadness and anger because of this event, I still haven't seen anyone address the issue of why these things are happening now and not in the 70's and 80's.

When I was growing up, as with many of you, guns were everywhere and very accessible to kids, teenagers, adutls etc. I grew up in Texas and gun laws were less restrictive then than they are now. We would dove hunt after HS and I parked my truck in school parking lot with shotguns and ammo at the ready all dove season. As did most of the guys in my class. Not once was I concerned about a school shooter and we had some pretty weird kids at our school. I was right not to be concerned because these things didn't happen.

Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows.

I do agree the gun laws should be changed to outlaw AR15 ( no reason to have one),
2) waiting period for any guns ( at least a week)
3) universal background checks ( I think we already have this)
, 4) no one under the age of 21 can buy a gun,
5) outlaw all semi-autos ( even pistols)

I still don't think this would prevent a lot of these situations but hopefully a start.

This not entirely correct. Texas gun laws are far less restrictive now than 7 years ago.

1. In 2021 the need for a conceal carry permit was eliminated. Prior to that you needed to take a class/practical application for a license.

2. In 2016 you could for the first time open, sorry I mean douche, carry in Texas. At the time douche carrying required a permit.

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

I suppose if the argument is these things are happending because its easier to walk down the street and get to a school while open carrying, then OK. But I don't think people are seeing these animals on the way to the school and saying ( nothing to see here because open carry is legal) and going about their way. If I saw a teenager walking down my street ( I live right next to a school) with an AR 15 you can bet your ass 911 is getting called. I imagine I am not unique.

Why would you call the police on someone doing something totally legal?

Just a hunch. We have a strong neighborhood watch, a lot of stay at home moms always on the lookout and a very safe neighborhood. We see something, we say something. Works well for our little utopia.

I wouldn't like a teenager walking around the school with an AR15. You do you and I will do me.

And what is the cop going to do exactly?

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [jmh] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:14

Post #33 of 118 (685 views)

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

Any idea on what's different about guns in the 70's and 80's that were easy to get and were in every house you knew and those available today?

Not much. Lots of AR15s, lots of assault rifles and HK sniper rifles, tons of ammo, lots of semi-auto pistols, even a few full autos at the house where my friends dad was in the FBI. We used to take mac 10's his dad had and shoot them in the back pasture.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [chaparral] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:18

Post #34 of 118 (679 views)

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

gall1972 wrote:

Scary to think what this country would be like if there weren't deterrents in place such as school police, building security protocols, mental health protocols, and the education and encouragement of students to report things they see and hear.

Imagine what's deterred and stopped because of these protocols already in place .... and then it's really scary to think that the above isnt anywhere near enough to stop this chaos.

I don't have to imagine what it would be like without those things as when I was growing up, we had none of those things. In all of the terrible sadness and anger because of this event, I still haven't seen anyone address the issue of why these things are happening now and not in the 70's and 80's.

When I was growing up, as with many of you, guns were everywhere and very accessible to kids, teenagers, adutls etc. I grew up in Texas and gun laws were less restrictive then than they are now. We would dove hunt after HS and I parked my truck in school parking lot with shotguns and ammo at the ready all dove season. As did most of the guys in my class. Not once was I concerned about a school shooter and we had some pretty weird kids at our school. I was right not to be concerned because these things didn't happen.

Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows.

I do agree the gun laws should be changed to outlaw AR15 ( no reason to have one),
2) waiting period for any guns ( at least a week)
3) universal background checks ( I think we already have this)
, 4) no one under the age of 21 can buy a gun,
5) outlaw all semi-autos ( even pistols)

I still don't think this would prevent a lot of these situations but hopefully a start.

This not entirely correct. Texas gun laws are far less restrictive now than 7 years ago.

1. In 2021 the need for a conceal carry permit was eliminated. Prior to that you needed to take a class/practical application for a license.

2. In 2016 you could for the first time open, sorry I mean douche, carry in Texas. At the time douche carrying required a permit.

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

I suppose if the argument is these things are happending because its easier to walk down the street and get to a school while open carrying, then OK. But I don't think people are seeing these animals on the way to the school and saying ( nothing to see here because open carry is legal) and going about their way. If I saw a teenager walking down my street ( I live right next to a school) with an AR 15 you can bet your ass 911 is getting called. I imagine I am not unique.

Why would you call the police on someone doing something totally legal?

Just a hunch. We have a strong neighborhood watch, a lot of stay at home moms always on the lookout and a very safe neighborhood. We see something, we say something. Works well for our little utopia.

I wouldn't like a teenager walking around the school with an AR15. You do you and I will do me.

And what is the cop going to do exactly?

Well, lets see. If the psychotic kid with the AR15 attempts to walk into the school, the COP could shoot him dead as he lies. In Texas, he would probably be awarded a medal after an investigation. He could also stop him and question him. Take your open carry shit elsewhere. The cop would not be reprimanded for stopping the kid.

We don't watch teenagers walk into schools with AR's and do nothing. Not a good plan.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:21

Post #35 of 118 (673 views)

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

gall1972 wrote:

Scary to think what this country would be like if there weren't deterrents in place such as school police, building security protocols, mental health protocols, and the education and encouragement of students to report things they see and hear.

Imagine what's deterred and stopped because of these protocols already in place .... and then it's really scary to think that the above isnt anywhere near enough to stop this chaos.

I don't have to imagine what it would be like without those things as when I was growing up, we had none of those things. In all of the terrible sadness and anger because of this event, I still haven't seen anyone address the issue of why these things are happening now and not in the 70's and 80's.

When I was growing up, as with many of you, guns were everywhere and very accessible to kids, teenagers, adutls etc. I grew up in Texas and gun laws were less restrictive then than they are now. We would dove hunt after HS and I parked my truck in school parking lot with shotguns and ammo at the ready all dove season. As did most of the guys in my class. Not once was I concerned about a school shooter and we had some pretty weird kids at our school. I was right not to be concerned because these things didn't happen.

Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows.

I do agree the gun laws should be changed to outlaw AR15 ( no reason to have one),
2) waiting period for any guns ( at least a week)
3) universal background checks ( I think we already have this)
, 4) no one under the age of 21 can buy a gun,
5) outlaw all semi-autos ( even pistols)

I still don't think this would prevent a lot of these situations but hopefully a start.

This not entirely correct. Texas gun laws are far less restrictive now than 7 years ago.

1. In 2021 the need for a conceal carry permit was eliminated. Prior to that you needed to take a class/practical application for a license.

2. In 2016 you could for the first time open, sorry I mean douche, carry in Texas. At the time douche carrying required a permit.

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

I suppose if the argument is these things are happending because its easier to walk down the street and get to a school while open carrying, then OK. But I don't think people are seeing these animals on the way to the school and saying ( nothing to see here because open carry is legal) and going about their way. If I saw a teenager walking down my street ( I live right next to a school) with an AR 15 you can bet your ass 911 is getting called. I imagine I am not unique.

Why would you call the police on someone doing something totally legal?

Just a hunch. We have a strong neighborhood watch, a lot of stay at home moms always on the lookout and a very safe neighborhood. We see something, we say something. Works well for our little utopia.

I wouldn't like a teenager walking around the school with an AR15. You do you and I will do me.

And what is the cop going to do exactly?

Well, lets see. If the psychotic kid with the AR15 attempts to walk into the school, the COP could shoot him dead as he lies. In Texas, he would probably be awarded a medal after an investigation. He could also stop him and question him. Take your open carry shit elsewhere. The cop would not be reprimanded for stopping the kid.

We don't watch teenagers walk into schools with AR's and do nothing. Not a good plan.

So you’re saying people shouldn’t be allowed to open carry? What about concealed carry? Or maybe there’s an even better way…

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:23

Post #36 of 118 (672 views)

Kay Serrar wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

gall1972 wrote:

Scary to think what this country would be like if there weren't deterrents in place such as school police, building security protocols, mental health protocols, and the education and encouragement of students to report things they see and hear.

Imagine what's deterred and stopped because of these protocols already in place .... and then it's really scary to think that the above isnt anywhere near enough to stop this chaos.

I don't have to imagine what it would be like without those things as when I was growing up, we had none of those things. In all of the terrible sadness and anger because of this event, I still haven't seen anyone address the issue of why these things are happening now and not in the 70's and 80's.

When I was growing up, as with many of you, guns were everywhere and very accessible to kids, teenagers, adutls etc. I grew up in Texas and gun laws were less restrictive then than they are now. We would dove hunt after HS and I parked my truck in school parking lot with shotguns and ammo at the ready all dove season. As did most of the guys in my class. Not once was I concerned about a school shooter and we had some pretty weird kids at our school. I was right not to be concerned because these things didn't happen.

Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows.

I do agree the gun laws should be changed to outlaw AR15 ( no reason to have one),
2) waiting period for any guns ( at least a week)
3) universal background checks ( I think we already have this)
, 4) no one under the age of 21 can buy a gun,
5) outlaw all semi-autos ( even pistols)

I still don't think this would prevent a lot of these situations but hopefully a start.

This not entirely correct. Texas gun laws are far less restrictive now than 7 years ago.

1. In 2021 the need for a conceal carry permit was eliminated. Prior to that you needed to take a class/practical application for a license.

2. In 2016 you could for the first time open, sorry I mean douche, carry in Texas. At the time douche carrying required a permit.

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

I suppose if the argument is these things are happending because its easier to walk down the street and get to a school while open carrying, then OK. But I don't think people are seeing these animals on the way to the school and saying ( nothing to see here because open carry is legal) and going about their way. If I saw a teenager walking down my street ( I live right next to a school) with an AR 15 you can bet your ass 911 is getting called. I imagine I am not unique.

Why would you call the police on someone doing something totally legal?

Just a hunch. We have a strong neighborhood watch, a lot of stay at home moms always on the lookout and a very safe neighborhood. We see something, we say something. Works well for our little utopia.

I wouldn't like a teenager walking around the school with an AR15. You do you and I will do me.

And what is the cop going to do exactly?

Well, lets see. If the psychotic kid with the AR15 attempts to walk into the school, the COP could shoot him dead as he lies. In Texas, he would probably be awarded a medal after an investigation. He could also stop him and question him. Take your open carry shit elsewhere. The cop would not be reprimanded for stopping the kid.

We don't watch teenagers walk into schools with AR's and do nothing. Not a good plan.

So you’re saying people shouldn’t be allowed to open carry? What about concealed carry? Or maybe there’s an even better way…

Yes, I am saying, as I have for years, no one should be allowed to open carry. Very stupid and dangerous.

I don't want to be in a chick fil a and have a guy sitting next to me with a pistol on his waist. If I ever say that, I would be out the door with family in tow. So far, since the law was changed, I have not seen a single person open carrying.

I suggest concealed carry is stupid as well but at least they had to have a license and take courses.

Last edited by: SDG: May 25, 22 14:24

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SWEDE63] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:24

Post #37 of 118 (671 views)

SWEDE63 wrote:

On this we can agree, neither side wants to let it seem like the other side won. Being from Kansas I was never a Bob Dole fan, however back when he was in office there was at least some civility within our government.

Please understand when I say “harden” …

a) I don’t mean with concrete and rebar I mean make it harder or more costly or more time consuming to hit the target

b) the target is the kids not the school.

c) the threat to our children is now endemic and Societal and cultural and memetic.

All in all, hire a police force that will respond sooner then the current “one full classroom of massacred kids” standard unit of measure, and hire administrators that can extend the threat surface space-time out to where the police response begins.

E

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:29

Post #38 of 118 (664 views)

ericMPro wrote:

SWEDE63 wrote:

On this we can agree, neither side wants to let it seem like the other side won. Being from Kansas I was never a Bob Dole fan, however back when he was in office there was at least some civility within our government.

Please understand when I say “harden” …

a) I don’t mean with concrete and rebar I mean make it harder or more costly or more time consuming to hit the target

b) the target is the kids not the school.

c) the threat to our children is now endemic and Societal and cultural and memetic.

All in all, hire a police force that will respond sooner then the current “one full classroom of massacred kids” standard unit of measure, and hire administrators that can extend the threat surface space-time out to where the police response begins.

E

I can't tell if you are being serious with your over the top suggestions or just trying to make a point by being so over the top.

You have schools becoming akin to SEAL TEAM SIX locking down a safe house in Kandahar. While I agree we need to increase cops on site, lock doors, have bullet proof glass put in and a few other things, not sure we can do all you require.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:32

Post #39 of 118 (661 views)

I think Eric speaks in a semi different language but from what I can piece together, it's sort of like taking mostly the same lego blocks you currently have, but arranging them differently in order to have a much better final product.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:35

Post #40 of 118 (660 views)

I don't have any answers, I don't know what to say other than it is complicated.

At what point do we just come out and say are all these school children, teachers, shoppers at stores, people in churches or in federal buildings just collateral damage for the concept of our freedom and right to own firearms? And then we have to ask at what point is it worth it or not?

I am getting sort of tired of people and politicians praying for Texas, or Sandy Hook, or Buffalo, or California, or wherever the next mass shooting occurs and then going on with their lives business as usual. Gun ownership and control is an absolute American problem and so far we haven't learned a damn thing from all these killings. Where do we start to change when prolly half the country does not believe we need to change or we need to but are unwilling? Until then the collateral damage continues.

It is complicated. But business as usual not addressing the problem is addressing the problem in a do nothing way.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:42

Post #41 of 118 (654 views)

SDG wrote:

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

Any idea on what's different about guns in the 70's and 80's that were easy to get and were in every house you knew and those available today?

Not much. Lots of AR15s, lots of assault rifles and HK sniper rifles, tons of ammo, lots of semi-auto pistols, even a few full autos at the house where my friends dad was in the FBI. We used to take mac 10's his dad had and shoot them in the back pasture.

You father, grandfather and friend's dad's were very different than the norm of having a .308 bolt action hunting rifle, a shotguns, or a revolver that were far, far more common in most households in that era. An AR-15 in the house was much more rare in that era than they are today.

I can't find from the 70's and 80's on AR-15 sales for the 70's and 80's but in the mid 2000's there were about 1/10 of the AR-15 sold in the US than in 2021. This number was much smaller in the early 2000's. One could surmise that there were a fraction of the 2007 number in the 70's and 80's given the trend.

The AWB ended (lapsed really) in 2004.

Suffer Well.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:46

Post #42 of 118 (648 views)

ericMPro wrote:

LorenzoP wrote:

As long as we can buy an AR-15 and body armor there are no practical deterrents to keep people safe. We can build 1000+ bed mental health facilities on every street corner, it won't make any difference.

This is absolute horseshit. Defending a hardened building instead of security theater would solve this problem.

No guns or off-duty rent seeking cops required.

E

I’m sorry, but I would rather imagine a future where our kids do not have to go to school in an armed encampment.

drn92

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:47

Post #43 of 118 (648 views)

SDG wrote:

Kay Serrar wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

gall1972 wrote:

Scary to think what this country would be like if there weren't deterrents in place such as school police, building security protocols, mental health protocols, and the education and encouragement of students to report things they see and hear.

Imagine what's deterred and stopped because of these protocols already in place .... and then it's really scary to think that the above isnt anywhere near enough to stop this chaos.

I don't have to imagine what it would be like without those things as when I was growing up, we had none of those things. In all of the terrible sadness and anger because of this event, I still haven't seen anyone address the issue of why these things are happening now and not in the 70's and 80's.

When I was growing up, as with many of you, guns were everywhere and very accessible to kids, teenagers, adutls etc. I grew up in Texas and gun laws were less restrictive then than they are now. We would dove hunt after HS and I parked my truck in school parking lot with shotguns and ammo at the ready all dove season. As did most of the guys in my class. Not once was I concerned about a school shooter and we had some pretty weird kids at our school. I was right not to be concerned because these things didn't happen.

Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows.

I do agree the gun laws should be changed to outlaw AR15 ( no reason to have one),
2) waiting period for any guns ( at least a week)
3) universal background checks ( I think we already have this)
, 4) no one under the age of 21 can buy a gun,
5) outlaw all semi-autos ( even pistols)

I still don't think this would prevent a lot of these situations but hopefully a start.

This not entirely correct. Texas gun laws are far less restrictive now than 7 years ago.

1. In 2021 the need for a conceal carry permit was eliminated. Prior to that you needed to take a class/practical application for a license.

2. In 2016 you could for the first time open, sorry I mean douche, carry in Texas. At the time douche carrying required a permit.

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

I suppose if the argument is these things are happending because its easier to walk down the street and get to a school while open carrying, then OK. But I don't think people are seeing these animals on the way to the school and saying ( nothing to see here because open carry is legal) and going about their way. If I saw a teenager walking down my street ( I live right next to a school) with an AR 15 you can bet your ass 911 is getting called. I imagine I am not unique.

Why would you call the police on someone doing something totally legal?

Just a hunch. We have a strong neighborhood watch, a lot of stay at home moms always on the lookout and a very safe neighborhood. We see something, we say something. Works well for our little utopia.

I wouldn't like a teenager walking around the school with an AR15. You do you and I will do me.

And what is the cop going to do exactly?

Well, lets see. If the psychotic kid with the AR15 attempts to walk into the school, the COP could shoot him dead as he lies. In Texas, he would probably be awarded a medal after an investigation. He could also stop him and question him. Take your open carry shit elsewhere. The cop would not be reprimanded for stopping the kid.

We don't watch teenagers walk into schools with AR's and do nothing. Not a good plan.

So you’re saying people shouldn’t be allowed to open carry? What about concealed carry? Or maybe there’s an even better way…

Yes, I am saying, as I have for years, no one should be allowed to open carry. Very stupid and dangerous.

I don't want to be in a chick fil a and have a guy sitting next to me with a pistol on his waist. If I ever say that, I would be out the door with family in tow. So far, since the law was changed, I have not seen a single person open carrying.

I suggest concealed carry is stupid as well but at least they had to have a license and take courses.

Seems like we agree then. The “No carry” way is best. Best you get on to your local representative and let them know how you feel.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:51

Post #44 of 118 (639 views)

Kay Serrar wrote:

SDG wrote:

Kay Serrar wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

gall1972 wrote:

Scary to think what this country would be like if there weren't deterrents in place such as school police, building security protocols, mental health protocols, and the education and encouragement of students to report things they see and hear.

Imagine what's deterred and stopped because of these protocols already in place .... and then it's really scary to think that the above isnt anywhere near enough to stop this chaos.

I don't have to imagine what it would be like without those things as when I was growing up, we had none of those things. In all of the terrible sadness and anger because of this event, I still haven't seen anyone address the issue of why these things are happening now and not in the 70's and 80's.

When I was growing up, as with many of you, guns were everywhere and very accessible to kids, teenagers, adutls etc. I grew up in Texas and gun laws were less restrictive then than they are now. We would dove hunt after HS and I parked my truck in school parking lot with shotguns and ammo at the ready all dove season. As did most of the guys in my class. Not once was I concerned about a school shooter and we had some pretty weird kids at our school. I was right not to be concerned because these things didn't happen.

Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows.

I do agree the gun laws should be changed to outlaw AR15 ( no reason to have one),
2) waiting period for any guns ( at least a week)
3) universal background checks ( I think we already have this)
, 4) no one under the age of 21 can buy a gun,
5) outlaw all semi-autos ( even pistols)

I still don't think this would prevent a lot of these situations but hopefully a start.

This not entirely correct. Texas gun laws are far less restrictive now than 7 years ago.

1. In 2021 the need for a conceal carry permit was eliminated. Prior to that you needed to take a class/practical application for a license.

2. In 2016 you could for the first time open, sorry I mean douche, carry in Texas. At the time douche carrying required a permit.

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

I suppose if the argument is these things are happending because its easier to walk down the street and get to a school while open carrying, then OK. But I don't think people are seeing these animals on the way to the school and saying ( nothing to see here because open carry is legal) and going about their way. If I saw a teenager walking down my street ( I live right next to a school) with an AR 15 you can bet your ass 911 is getting called. I imagine I am not unique.

Why would you call the police on someone doing something totally legal?

Just a hunch. We have a strong neighborhood watch, a lot of stay at home moms always on the lookout and a very safe neighborhood. We see something, we say something. Works well for our little utopia.

I wouldn't like a teenager walking around the school with an AR15. You do you and I will do me.

And what is the cop going to do exactly?

Well, lets see. If the psychotic kid with the AR15 attempts to walk into the school, the COP could shoot him dead as he lies. In Texas, he would probably be awarded a medal after an investigation. He could also stop him and question him. Take your open carry shit elsewhere. The cop would not be reprimanded for stopping the kid.

We don't watch teenagers walk into schools with AR's and do nothing. Not a good plan.

So you’re saying people shouldn’t be allowed to open carry? What about concealed carry? Or maybe there’s an even better way…

Yes, I am saying, as I have for years, no one should be allowed to open carry. Very stupid and dangerous.

I don't want to be in a chick fil a and have a guy sitting next to me with a pistol on his waist. If I ever say that, I would be out the door with family in tow. So far, since the law was changed, I have not seen a single person open carrying.

I suggest concealed carry is stupid as well but at least they had to have a license and take courses.

Seems like we agree then. The “No carry” way is best. Best you get on to your local representative and let them know how you feel.

Do you see open carry as the problem in these school shootings? While I think it is dump and panders to the ranger ricks out there, I don't think open carry folks are doing these things or its existence is making it harder for cops to root out the psychos who are doing these things.

I see buying guns online and getting them at 18 to be much bigger problem? I do and will suggest these changes should be made.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:51

Post #45 of 118 (639 views)

SDG wrote:

Kay Serrar wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

gall1972 wrote:

Scary to think what this country would be like if there weren't deterrents in place such as school police, building security protocols, mental health protocols, and the education and encouragement of students to report things they see and hear.

Imagine what's deterred and stopped because of these protocols already in place .... and then it's really scary to think that the above isnt anywhere near enough to stop this chaos.

I don't have to imagine what it would be like without those things as when I was growing up, we had none of those things. In all of the terrible sadness and anger because of this event, I still haven't seen anyone address the issue of why these things are happening now and not in the 70's and 80's.

When I was growing up, as with many of you, guns were everywhere and very accessible to kids, teenagers, adutls etc. I grew up in Texas and gun laws were less restrictive then than they are now. We would dove hunt after HS and I parked my truck in school parking lot with shotguns and ammo at the ready all dove season. As did most of the guys in my class. Not once was I concerned about a school shooter and we had some pretty weird kids at our school. I was right not to be concerned because these things didn't happen.

Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows.

I do agree the gun laws should be changed to outlaw AR15 ( no reason to have one),
2) waiting period for any guns ( at least a week)
3) universal background checks ( I think we already have this)
, 4) no one under the age of 21 can buy a gun,
5) outlaw all semi-autos ( even pistols)

I still don't think this would prevent a lot of these situations but hopefully a start.

This not entirely correct. Texas gun laws are far less restrictive now than 7 years ago.

1. In 2021 the need for a conceal carry permit was eliminated. Prior to that you needed to take a class/practical application for a license.

2. In 2016 you could for the first time open, sorry I mean douche, carry in Texas. At the time douche carrying required a permit.

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

I suppose if the argument is these things are happending because its easier to walk down the street and get to a school while open carrying, then OK. But I don't think people are seeing these animals on the way to the school and saying ( nothing to see here because open carry is legal) and going about their way. If I saw a teenager walking down my street ( I live right next to a school) with an AR 15 you can bet your ass 911 is getting called. I imagine I am not unique.

Why would you call the police on someone doing something totally legal?

Just a hunch. We have a strong neighborhood watch, a lot of stay at home moms always on the lookout and a very safe neighborhood. We see something, we say something. Works well for our little utopia.

I wouldn't like a teenager walking around the school with an AR15. You do you and I will do me.

And what is the cop going to do exactly?

Well, lets see. If the psychotic kid with the AR15 attempts to walk into the school, the COP could shoot him dead as he lies. In Texas, he would probably be awarded a medal after an investigation. He could also stop him and question him. Take your open carry shit elsewhere. The cop would not be reprimanded for stopping the kid.

We don't watch teenagers walk into schools with AR's and do nothing. Not a good plan.

So you’re saying people shouldn’t be allowed to open carry? What about concealed carry? Or maybe there’s an even better way…

Yes, I am saying, as I have for years, no one should be allowed to open carry. Very stupid and dangerous.

I don't want to be in a chick fil a and have a guy sitting next to me with a pistol on his waist. If I ever say that, I would be out the door with family in tow. So far, since the law was changed, I have not seen a single person open carrying.

I suggest concealed carry is stupid as well but at least they had to have a license and take courses.

Wrong again. In Texas, where you and I live, as of September of last year, there is no need for a license or taking a course to conceal carry.

Damn son, you are ignorant on this topic.

Suffer Well.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [jmh] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:53

Post #46 of 118 (637 views)

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

Kay Serrar wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

gall1972 wrote:

Scary to think what this country would be like if there weren't deterrents in place such as school police, building security protocols, mental health protocols, and the education and encouragement of students to report things they see and hear.

Imagine what's deterred and stopped because of these protocols already in place .... and then it's really scary to think that the above isnt anywhere near enough to stop this chaos.

I don't have to imagine what it would be like without those things as when I was growing up, we had none of those things. In all of the terrible sadness and anger because of this event, I still haven't seen anyone address the issue of why these things are happening now and not in the 70's and 80's.

When I was growing up, as with many of you, guns were everywhere and very accessible to kids, teenagers, adutls etc. I grew up in Texas and gun laws were less restrictive then than they are now. We would dove hunt after HS and I parked my truck in school parking lot with shotguns and ammo at the ready all dove season. As did most of the guys in my class. Not once was I concerned about a school shooter and we had some pretty weird kids at our school. I was right not to be concerned because these things didn't happen.

Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows.

I do agree the gun laws should be changed to outlaw AR15 ( no reason to have one),
2) waiting period for any guns ( at least a week)
3) universal background checks ( I think we already have this)
, 4) no one under the age of 21 can buy a gun,
5) outlaw all semi-autos ( even pistols)

I still don't think this would prevent a lot of these situations but hopefully a start.

This not entirely correct. Texas gun laws are far less restrictive now than 7 years ago.

1. In 2021 the need for a conceal carry permit was eliminated. Prior to that you needed to take a class/practical application for a license.

2. In 2016 you could for the first time open, sorry I mean douche, carry in Texas. At the time douche carrying required a permit.

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

I suppose if the argument is these things are happending because its easier to walk down the street and get to a school while open carrying, then OK. But I don't think people are seeing these animals on the way to the school and saying ( nothing to see here because open carry is legal) and going about their way. If I saw a teenager walking down my street ( I live right next to a school) with an AR 15 you can bet your ass 911 is getting called. I imagine I am not unique.

Why would you call the police on someone doing something totally legal?

Just a hunch. We have a strong neighborhood watch, a lot of stay at home moms always on the lookout and a very safe neighborhood. We see something, we say something. Works well for our little utopia.

I wouldn't like a teenager walking around the school with an AR15. You do you and I will do me.

And what is the cop going to do exactly?

Well, lets see. If the psychotic kid with the AR15 attempts to walk into the school, the COP could shoot him dead as he lies. In Texas, he would probably be awarded a medal after an investigation. He could also stop him and question him. Take your open carry shit elsewhere. The cop would not be reprimanded for stopping the kid.

We don't watch teenagers walk into schools with AR's and do nothing. Not a good plan.

So you’re saying people shouldn’t be allowed to open carry? What about concealed carry? Or maybe there’s an even better way…

Yes, I am saying, as I have for years, no one should be allowed to open carry. Very stupid and dangerous.

I don't want to be in a chick fil a and have a guy sitting next to me with a pistol on his waist. If I ever say that, I would be out the door with family in tow. So far, since the law was changed, I have not seen a single person open carrying.

I suggest concealed carry is stupid as well but at least they had to have a license and take courses.

Wrong again. In Texas, where you and I live, as of September of last year, there is no need for a license or taking a course to conceal carry.

Damn son, you are ignorant on this topic.

Was referring to the old rule prior to open carry. ( see had to) Sure, now they can do whatever they want. I still don't see that as the issue in theses shootings but sure, that needs to change to

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 14:57

Post #47 of 118 (629 views)

SDG wrote:

No actually it's quite nice. It's a neighborhood school and many are taken by their parents in golf carts, walk on the sidewalks or ride their bikes. They leave their bikes at the front of the school and no one uses a bike lock, just lays their bike down. Skateboards, scooters everywhere and nothing locked up. Teachers are all great, energetic and the class size is small and well funded. Each kid has a ipad. They have recess twice a day and parents often come eat in the cafeteria and bring kids lunch. My kid loves the chick fil a I bring him all the time and time we eat up there.

You can have all of this and have the school locked down during the day with each door outside locked. My kids probably don't even know the doors are locked. Each class has a large window to the outside and they can daydream watching the squirrels all they want.

I live in Canada and the schools in my neighborhood have basketball courts / running tracks / soccer fields that are not fenced. How do you defend these?
Do you have a big fence around sport fields?

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 15:01

Post #48 of 118 (623 views)

SDG wrote:

Kay Serrar wrote:

SDG wrote:

Kay Serrar wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

chaparral wrote:

SDG wrote:

jmh wrote:

SDG wrote:

gall1972 wrote:

Scary to think what this country would be like if there weren't deterrents in place such as school police, building security protocols, mental health protocols, and the education and encouragement of students to report things they see and hear.

Imagine what's deterred and stopped because of these protocols already in place .... and then it's really scary to think that the above isnt anywhere near enough to stop this chaos.

I don't have to imagine what it would be like without those things as when I was growing up, we had none of those things. In all of the terrible sadness and anger because of this event, I still haven't seen anyone address the issue of why these things are happening now and not in the 70's and 80's.

When I was growing up, as with many of you, guns were everywhere and very accessible to kids, teenagers, adutls etc. I grew up in Texas and gun laws were less restrictive then than they are now. We would dove hunt after HS and I parked my truck in school parking lot with shotguns and ammo at the ready all dove season. As did most of the guys in my class. Not once was I concerned about a school shooter and we had some pretty weird kids at our school. I was right not to be concerned because these things didn't happen.

Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows.

I do agree the gun laws should be changed to outlaw AR15 ( no reason to have one),
2) waiting period for any guns ( at least a week)
3) universal background checks ( I think we already have this)
, 4) no one under the age of 21 can buy a gun,
5) outlaw all semi-autos ( even pistols)

I still don't think this would prevent a lot of these situations but hopefully a start.

This not entirely correct. Texas gun laws are far less restrictive now than 7 years ago.

1. In 2021 the need for a conceal carry permit was eliminated. Prior to that you needed to take a class/practical application for a license.

2. In 2016 you could for the first time open, sorry I mean douche, carry in Texas. At the time douche carrying required a permit.

Fair enough but I don't think open carry and concealed carry (i agree they are dumb) are relevant when it comes to why teenage guys are turning into psychotic animals and killing kids. They could get guns in the 70's and 80s just as easy. Most everyone I knew had a dad or grandpa with tons of guns in closets, gun cabinets or laying around the house. Not a one was ever used to kill someone.

I suppose if the argument is these things are happending because its easier to walk down the street and get to a school while open carrying, then OK. But I don't think people are seeing these animals on the way to the school and saying ( nothing to see here because open carry is legal) and going about their way. If I saw a teenager walking down my street ( I live right next to a school) with an AR 15 you can bet your ass 911 is getting called. I imagine I am not unique.

Why would you call the police on someone doing something totally legal?

Just a hunch. We have a strong neighborhood watch, a lot of stay at home moms always on the lookout and a very safe neighborhood. We see something, we say something. Works well for our little utopia.

I wouldn't like a teenager walking around the school with an AR15. You do you and I will do me.

And what is the cop going to do exactly?

Well, lets see. If the psychotic kid with the AR15 attempts to walk into the school, the COP could shoot him dead as he lies. In Texas, he would probably be awarded a medal after an investigation. He could also stop him and question him. Take your open carry shit elsewhere. The cop would not be reprimanded for stopping the kid.

We don't watch teenagers walk into schools with AR's and do nothing. Not a good plan.

So you’re saying people shouldn’t be allowed to open carry? What about concealed carry? Or maybe there’s an even better way…

Yes, I am saying, as I have for years, no one should be allowed to open carry. Very stupid and dangerous.

I don't want to be in a chick fil a and have a guy sitting next to me with a pistol on his waist. If I ever say that, I would be out the door with family in tow. So far, since the law was changed, I have not seen a single person open carrying.

I suggest concealed carry is stupid as well but at least they had to have a license and take courses.

Seems like we agree then. The “No carry” way is best. Best you get on to your local representative and let them know how you feel.

Do you see open carry as the problem in these school shootings? While I think it is dump and panders to the ranger ricks out there, I don't think open carry folks are doing these things or its existence is making it harder for cops to root out the psychos who are doing these things.

I see buying guns online and getting them at 18 to be much bigger problem? I do and will suggest these changes should be made.

I would agree, but you seem not to like your states laws, so would suggest you lobby for change and vote for the side that’s in favor of sensible gun controls.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [Doru] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 15:06

Post #49 of 118 (619 views)

Doru wrote:

SDG wrote:

No actually it's quite nice. It's a neighborhood school and many are taken by their parents in golf carts, walk on the sidewalks or ride their bikes. They leave their bikes at the front of the school and no one uses a bike lock, just lays their bike down. Skateboards, scooters everywhere and nothing locked up. Teachers are all great, energetic and the class size is small and well funded. Each kid has a ipad. They have recess twice a day and parents often come eat in the cafeteria and bring kids lunch. My kid loves the chick fil a I bring him all the time and time we eat up there.

You can have all of this and have the school locked down during the day with each door outside locked. My kids probably don't even know the doors are locked. Each class has a large window to the outside and they can daydream watching the squirrels all they want.

I live in Canada and the schools in my neighborhood have basketball courts / running tracks / soccer fields that are not fenced. How do you defend these?
Do you have a big fence around sport fields?

We have all of those as well. No problems so far and kids play outside everyday. I don't recall ever seeing the situation where any of these cases happened outdoors at the school. I guess if they ever had that, the kids would run into the school as fast as they could.

Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 22 15:07

Post #50 of 118 (617 views)

ericMPro wrote:

SWEDE63 wrote:

On this we can agree, neither side wants to let it seem like the other side won. Being from Kansas I was never a Bob Dole fan, however back when he was in office there was at least some civility within our government.

Please understand when I say “harden” …

a) I don’t mean with concrete and rebar I mean make it harder or more costly or more time consuming to hit the target

b) the target is the kids not the school.

c) the threat to our children is now endemic and Societal and cultural and memetic.

All in all, hire a police force that will respond sooner then the current “one full classroom of massacred kids” standard unit of measure, and hire administrators that can extend the threat surface space-time out to where the police response begins.

E

How about you stop talking in riddles and stop proposing unworkable (from a cost perspective) solutions to the problem.

And making schools a bit more “hardened” as targets, or getting cops to arrive a few seconds sooner, are not going to solve the problem. The problem is the quantity of guns in our society and the ease with which anyone can buy one. This is not rocket science.

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