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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [Skuj] [ In reply to ]
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been pounding pork burritos since this story came out for the gains.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [Hollywood_USAF] [ In reply to ]
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Houlihan's story seems to have some believers here.

I only swim.
I used to run. (31:09 10k)
I never did Triathlon.
Sue me.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [Skuj] [ In reply to ]
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Skuj wrote:
Houlihan's story seems to have some believers here.

Some folks believe the earth is flat. The moon landing was fake and 9/11 was an inside job. Some believe in Santa and some believe a world class athletes and coach never heard of nandralone and must have got it off a food truck in Oregon lol
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [BobAjobb] [ In reply to ]
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BobAjobb wrote:
No. Bit if they ate pumped full of antibiotics, what else are they pumped full of.
Steroids, growth hormones, what else ?

Not nandrolone, is the key for this thread.

Trenbolone in beef is possible, as in the Jarrion Lawson positive. But nandrolone is not approved for use in beef production. Not sure why a rancher would try to break the law with an unapproved steroid when there are cheap, legal steroids. And I don't believe any steroids are approved for pork production. It seems unlikely that a pork producer would use a probably-far-more-expensive human-grade synthetic steroid with hogs rather than just the cheap stuff. Ignoring the whole issue with endogenous hog hormones causing "boar taint." (though I have no idea if introduction of a synthetic steroid would cause that smell or not).

But since Houlihan said her burrito smelled awful, seems like she's going for the uncastrated angle.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [trail] [ In reply to ]
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After being informed of her positive test, she and coach Jerry clearly googled "what could trigger a nandrolone reading" and went for it.

A very informed friend of mine had this to say on the subject:

Plus, Nike being Nike, there is no way they would make a “full commitment” to everyone in any group. They are straight-up alpha, and play to win-- or not at all. But, having a few athletes—ones who probably wouldn’t podium even with an advantage-- around who can honestly say that they did and saw nothing is very valuable if/when the shit hits the fan.

I only swim.
I used to run. (31:09 10k)
I never did Triathlon.
Sue me.
Last edited by: Skuj: Jun 27, 21 16:24
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [Hollywood_USAF] [ In reply to ]
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Hollywood_USAF wrote:
Skuj wrote:
Houlihan's story seems to have some believers here.

Some folks believe the earth is flat. The moon landing was fake and 9/11 was an inside job. Some believe in Santa and some believe a world class athletes and coach never heard of nandralone and must have got it off a food truck in Oregon lol

I don't know about any of that, but Elvis works in my local 7/11.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [NAB777] [ In reply to ]
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NAB777 wrote:
Hollywood_USAF wrote:
Skuj wrote:
Houlihan's story seems to have some believers here.


Some folks believe the earth is flat. The moon landing was fake and 9/11 was an inside job. Some believe in Santa and some believe a world class athletes and coach never heard of nandralone and must have got it off a food truck in Oregon lol


I don't know about any of that, but (..the ghost of ...) Elvis works in my local 7/11.

And chugs burritos.

Good to see the testing is working. This is solid technology too. There is no chance that food intake was the cause.
I'll bet if we had the supporting documentation, it would be very clear as to the level of the infraction.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [Hollywood_USAF] [ In reply to ]
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Hollywood_USAF wrote:
Skuj wrote:
Houlihan's story seems to have some believers here.


Some folks believe the earth is flat
The moon landing was fake
9/11 was an inside job
Some believe in Santa
Some believe a world class athletes and coach never heard of nandralone and must have got it off a food truck in Oregon

Never did
Used to
Probably not
Used to
No fucking way

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [Hollywood_USAF] [ In reply to ]
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Hollywood_USAF wrote:
been pounding pork burritos since this story came out for the gains.

LMAO!!!!!
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [cantswim24] [ In reply to ]
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Good review from a T&F strength coach. He says bullshit.

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Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [realAB] [ In reply to ]
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https://www.wweek.com/...-set-out-to-find-it/

It does sounds like the Pork offal burritos are a real thing.
But it also sounds like it would be hard to eat one accidently thinking it was carne assada.

Pork offal = Pork awful
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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The article seems to focus on tripe burritos. Tripe is readily available...although I don't recall my grandmother making anything other than menudo with it. Menudo is bomb though, not sure I'd want a tripe burrito. Offal is more than just tripe.

Can confirm that Buche, most of the time that's a mix of carnitas and tripe and not straight tripe...at least when I've had it, is DELICIOUS.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
Last edited by: TheStroBro: Jul 9, 21 20:17
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [Skuj] [ In reply to ]
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well, now that the full report has been released...anybody saying they're a believer in her story must be feeling pretty dumb...

[stolen from a LR commenter]:


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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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Pfft. Next you're going to tell me that Katie Compton is actually guilty too. I follow these people on Instagram, I refuse to believe they could cheat!

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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Here is the full report from CAS: https://www.athleticsintegrity.org/...d-Reasoned-FINAL.pdf

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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Have to admit that I haven't read every post.

But I believe that there is a definite problem here.
She may or may not be dumber than toast, there's no IQ requirement for an athlete.

My problem is the coach.
A coach is required to have some knowledge and yet neither of them appears to have the most basic rudimentary knowledge. This is their business.

So why is the coach also not sanctioned for his utter failure to provide proper background information about what can and cannot be eaten safely for an athlete who lives and dies on a single test result. There is a history of tainted food drug tests, tainted supplement drug failures and over the counter medications producing positive results. Are we to believe all this escaped him. The athlete is assumed to have received drugs and what source would that be?

We all know of athletes who have been cleared for merely sleeping with a user. She ate the user?

It's quite possible she is clean, it's quite possible she is not smart, her school records are, apparently, only about running. It's quite possible that her coach, who makes and breaks his reputation on producing Olympic athletes, gives no advice on what foods may be eaten, what supplements are safe and so on and so on.

Stupid is as stupid does.
She has my sympathies.
He doesn't.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch wrote:
But I believe that there is a definite problem here.
She may or may not be dumber than toast, there's no IQ requirement for an athlete.

My problem is the coach.
A coach is required to have some knowledge and yet neither of them appears to have the most basic rudimentary knowledge. This is their business.

So why is the coach also not sanctioned for his utter failure to provide proper background information about what can and cannot be eaten safely for an athlete who lives and dies on a single test result. ..........................................

It's quite possible she is clean, it's quite possible she is not smart, her school records are, apparently, only about running. It's quite possible that her coach, who makes and breaks his reputation on producing Olympic athletes, gives no advice on what foods may be eaten, what supplements are safe and so on and so on.

It's clear you do not coach. (and probably shouldn't)

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:

It's clear you do not coach. (and probably shouldn't)


I don't think the snarky, personal tone of that comment was necessary.

I do believe that sanctioning a coach requires more evidence than the circumstantial evidence of an athlete testing positive.

But it was curious to me that Schumacher wrote this blog piece about Houlihan's innocence, with a call to arms to take on the apparently incompetent/corrupt anti-doping organizations, "To the powerful organizations that can enact change: Where are you? What are you doing? Why does this continue to happen to clean athletes?"

Yet reading the above CAS report, he did not provide testimony on Houlihan's behalf before CAS. It was his big chance to bring concerns of his blog post before the most powerful arbiters of anti-doping (who have a history of athlete-friendly decisions). And he didn't testify. A bunch of Bowerman athletes testified. One Bowerman coach testified - Shalane Flanagan. And she just offered a statement that she "believes" Houlihan is innocent. No one testifying on her behalf referenced any strong education or anti-doping practices or policies used by Bowerman Track Club.

I don't believe there's anywhere near enough evidence to "sanction" the coaches. But it's not a good look.
Last edited by: trail: Sep 2, 21 12:07
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch wrote:
Have to admit that I haven't read every post.

But I believe that there is a definite problem here.
She may or may not be dumber than toast, there's no IQ requirement for an athlete.

My problem is the coach.
A coach is required to have some knowledge and yet neither of them appears to have the most basic rudimentary knowledge. This is their business.

So why is the coach also not sanctioned for his utter failure to provide proper background information about what can and cannot be eaten safely for an athlete who lives and dies on a single test result. There is a history of tainted food drug tests, tainted supplement drug failures and over the counter medications producing positive results. Are we to believe all this escaped him. The athlete is assumed to have received drugs and what source would that be?

We all know of athletes who have been cleared for merely sleeping with a user. She ate the user?

It's quite possible she is clean, it's quite possible she is not smart, her school records are, apparently, only about running. It's quite possible that her coach, who makes and breaks his reputation on producing Olympic athletes, gives no advice on what foods may be eaten, what supplements are safe and so on and so on.

Stupid is as stupid does.
She has my sympathies.
He doesn't.


Or maybe, just possibly maybe, they both knew exactly what they were up to and their story is BS to try to cover for being busted.
When the Taliban say they are a caring sharing benign equal opportunities organisation with pacifistic leanings, do you believe them too ?
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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The report is linked above your post. Your post assumes she ate something. The chance she actually ate something plugged with enough Nandralone is almost in the negative probability.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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What bothered me throughout all of this was how well crafted of a marketing campaign Nike ran. The coaches pled ignorance. The athletes put out heartfelt messages. Bowerman has one of the better vibes out there & they leaned into it. Whether Houlihan cheated on their own or backed by coaches/Nike, we never should have bought any of it. Let's try to to regurgitate Nike vetted talking points in the future and think about how we would react to any other athlete facing charges like this. The report was clear. Yet another drug cheat has been banned. So many others haven't.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
well, now that the full report has been released...anybody saying they're a believer in her story must be feeling pretty dumb...

[stolen from a LR commenter]:

So you’re saying there’s a chance.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
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Nike's gonna Nike.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
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dcpinsonn wrote:
What bothered me throughout all of this was how well crafted of a marketing campaign Nike ran. The coaches pled ignorance. The athletes put out heartfelt messages. Bowerman has one of the better vibes out there & they leaned into it. Whether Houlihan cheated on their own or backed by coaches/Nike, we never should have bought any of it. Let's try to to regurgitate Nike vetted talking points in the future and think about how we would react to any other athlete facing charges like this. The report was clear. Yet another drug cheat has been banned. So many others haven't.

This is the narrative of any megacorp when it or anyone tied to it does anything wrong.

So I get why you are bothered, but this narrative is so rampant I would say at this point it is the expected.

And to be fair, any athlete of note is going to have sponsorship to some kind of corporate entity (Obviously Nike is the largest in Athletics), so we'd react the same, because we'd be fed exactly the same public relations BS. Look at the first go around with Salazar (coach not an athlete), that's the Nike blueprint, make it a soft landing for themselves.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:
dcpinsonn wrote:
What bothered me throughout all of this was how well crafted of a marketing campaign Nike ran. The coaches pled ignorance. The athletes put out heartfelt messages. Bowerman has one of the better vibes out there & they leaned into it. Whether Houlihan cheated on their own or backed by coaches/Nike, we never should have bought any of it. Let's try to to regurgitate Nike vetted talking points in the future and think about how we would react to any other athlete facing charges like this. The report was clear. Yet another drug cheat has been banned. So many others haven't.


This is the narrative of any megacorp when it or anyone tied to it does anything wrong.

So I get why you are bothered, but this narrative is so rampant I would say at this point it is the expected.

And to be fair, any athlete of note is going to have sponsorship to some kind of corporate entity (Obviously Nike is the largest in Athletics), so we'd react the same, because we'd be fed exactly the same public relations BS. Look at the first go around with Salazar (coach not an athlete), that's the Nike blueprint, make it a soft landing for themselves.

Nike long ago made peace with the fact that they would be sponsoring/supporting dopers. They needed to sponsor the top athletes in professional leagues (NBA, NFL, MLB, Premier League, PGA, etc.) and that meant sponsoring dopers. Seriously, what % of the NFL is clean?
What makes them different than the other major sportswear brands (Adidas, etc.) is that they didn't just turn a blind eye, they created and supported in-house programs like Salazar's Nike Oregon Project where sketchy practices (ex. all the thyroid meds, testing what amount of T cream would evade tests, etc. ) were institutionalized.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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