Meanwhile in Jerusalem

May 11, 21 14:16

Post #1 of 59 (1445 views)

Surprised I haven't seen ay discussion on the rockets being launched and turmoil going on between Israel and the Palestinians.

Sure this happens from time to time, but this time it has a different feel. Netanyahu calling up 5000 soldiers from Israeli reserves and saying this could go on for awhile. Hamas continues to launch rockets and then Israel retaliates and blows up parts of Gaza Strip.

I guess as long as no one else gets involved we just sit back and watch and see what happens. I am for not doing a damn thing other than sitting on the sidelines. These guys want to fight so let them do their thing.

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 11, 21 14:52

Post #2 of 59 (1392 views)

https://twitter.com/.../1392202926299418627

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [hank rearden] [ In reply to ]

May 11, 21 15:02

Post #3 of 59 (1382 views)

It's getting Amped up.

Hamas Calls for Iran-Saudi Unity, Israel Issues Warning to Any Who Join Its Foes (msn.com)

Hamas trying to get support from Iran and Saudi Arabia and Turkey et al. Israel publicly telling other countries they better not get involved.

What is Biden to do?

I hope my nephew that is going through Ranger Training at Fort Bragg doesn't get out just in time to go to the middle east if we get stuck in this thing.

Last edited by: SDG: May 11, 21 15:06

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 11, 21 21:28

Post #4 of 59 (1299 views)

SDG wrote:

Surprised I haven't seen ay discussion on the rockets being launched and turmoil going on between Israel and the Palestinians.

Sure this happens from time to time, but this time it has a different feel. Netanyahu calling up 5000 soldiers from Israeli reserves and saying this could go on for awhile. Hamas continues to launch rockets and then Israel retaliates and blows up parts of Gaza Strip.

I guess as long as no one else gets involved we just sit back and watch and see what happens. I am for not doing a damn thing other than sitting on the sidelines. These guys want to fight so let them do their thing.

I mentioned it in the Persian Gulf thread. Hamas is supported by Iran

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 11, 21 22:09

Post #5 of 59 (1284 views)

How many of those Hamas missiles have been shot down?

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [softrun] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 21 7:20

Post #6 of 59 (1185 views)

softrun wrote:

How many of those Hamas missiles have been shot down?

Hamas Calls for Full-Scale Rebellion in Israel as Fighting Continues for Third Day (msn.com)

I don't know but this article says its so many rockets from Gaza it's overwhelming the Israeli defense system at times.

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 21 7:26

Post #7 of 59 (1177 views)

SDG wrote:

What is Biden to do?

Nothing.

Quote:

I hope my nephew that is going through Ranger Training at Fort Bragg doesn't get out just in time to go to the middle east if we get stuck in this thing.

Israel doesn't need him.

Relax, buddy. It'll be OK.

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [trail] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 21 7:43

Post #8 of 59 (1166 views)

trail wrote:

SDG wrote:

What is Biden to do?

Nothing.

Quote:

I hope my nephew that is going through Ranger Training at Fort Bragg doesn't get out just in time to go to the middle east if we get stuck in this thing.

Israel doesn't need him.

Relax, buddy. It'll be OK.

The first, and probably the last time I will agree with you on something. Biden should go back to bed and sit this one out. He has enough to deal with in the USA.

The Squad sure is feisty about what's going on. Interesting to see people pick sides in this conflict and why they do so.

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 6:54

Post #9 of 59 (1093 views)

There is a will be blood, Israel can easily out gun the terrorists organization Hamas.
And Israel can do special ops ask Iran.

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [Clutch Cargo] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 7:32

Post #10 of 59 (1070 views)

Hamas is truly poking the bear and they know that. There only hope is to get some other country or public support on their side and get the rest of the world involved against Israel. A straight up fight of Israel v Hamas would leave Hamas with no land and an even worse living situation than they currently have.

Biden came out yesterday in support of Israel saying they have a right to defend themselves from Hamas. While this is a common sense statement, many on the far left are bristling at his assertion. Tlaib, Ilhan, AOC.

For the sake of the kids and innocent folks involved, hopefully it ends soon.

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 7:44

Post #11 of 59 (1059 views)

SDG wrote:

Hamas is truly poking the bear and they know that. There only hope is to get some other country or public support on their side and get the rest of the world involved against Israel. A straight up fight of Israel v Hamas would leave Hamas with no land and an even worse living situation than they currently have.

Biden came out yesterday in support of Israel saying they have a right to defend themselves from Hamas. While this is a common sense statement, many on the far left are bristling at his assertion. Tlaib, Ilhan, AOC.

For the sake of the kids and innocent folks involved, hopefully it ends soon.

One thing lost in all this that I read is the protests/counter protests occurring across the US and the violence surrounding them. Here in the US there are tribal lines drawn. Not Left/Right, but pro Israel and pro Palestine. I think this is a case where unlike in Israel where as mentioned Israel has a leg up in strength, in the US there isn't a will to stand with one side or the other. This could get very violent and bloody in the US. We have seen violent clashes in other protests in the last year. How will the police or government handle these protest? It's easier when you have a good guy and a bad guy (white supremist vs anyone), it is different when you have two sides just showing support for their country or religion.

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 7:48

Post #12 of 59 (1055 views)

An interesting perspective from Max Boot. Land grab in East Jerusalem sits at the epicenter this time with Arab Israeli activity this time as the difference from previous go arounds. To windy's point for sure Iran has not missed their opportunity here with proxy Hamas-- nothing new or surprising there. Violence, whether initiated or in response, is a most welcome political plus for Bebe who seems not able to win governing support without it. Trump's Peace in the Middle east, like his peace in Afghanistan, was a cherry picking effort to find willing partners. Those partners, less Israel, sit on the sidelines here as this is a local fight with non partner Hamas actively helping out again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/...s-worse-middle-east/

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 7:50

Post #13 of 59 (1052 views)

SDG wrote:

Hamas is truly poking the bear and they know that. There only hope is to get some other country or public support on their side and get the rest of the world involved against Israel. A straight up fight of Israel v Hamas would leave Hamas with no land and an even worse living situation than they currently have.

Biden came out yesterday in support of Israel saying they have a right to defend themselves from Hamas. While this is a common sense statement, many on the far left are bristling at his assertion. Tlaib, Ilhan, AOC.

For the sake of the kids and innocent folks involved, hopefully it ends soon.

I believe the counterpoint to this is that Israel is largely causing the provocations from Hamas and then crying wolf when they get a response. Statements like this coming from people like Biden presumably give them the backing they need to further their incursions into Palestinian land. It’s the long game Israel has learned works to perfection.

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 7:58

Post #14 of 59 (1046 views)

TimeIsUp wrote:

SDG wrote:

Hamas is truly poking the bear and they know that. There only hope is to get some other country or public support on their side and get the rest of the world involved against Israel. A straight up fight of Israel v Hamas would leave Hamas with no land and an even worse living situation than they currently have.

Biden came out yesterday in support of Israel saying they have a right to defend themselves from Hamas. While this is a common sense statement, many on the far left are bristling at his assertion. Tlaib, Ilhan, AOC.

For the sake of the kids and innocent folks involved, hopefully it ends soon.

I believe the counterpoint to this is that Israel is largely causing the provocations from Hamas and then crying wolf when they get a response. Statements like this coming from people like Biden presumably give them the backing they need to further their incursions into Palestinian land. It’s the long game Israel has learned works to perfection.

I agree and that is definitely how those supporting Hamas "the squad" see it.

This goes back to 1948 where Israel fought to take control of the land they currently control and moved Palestine away and into the Gaza strip. Israel does not see itself as an occupier but the rightful owner of the land. Palestine sees itself as being owned and oppressed by folks that took over their rightful land.

A two state solution seems to make sense but from Israel standpoint, I could see them saying we shouldn't have to give them anything and Palestine saying, we want all of Jerusalem and our holy sites, and to be recognized as a nation. With Hamas, a group deemed to be a terrorist organization, running things for Palestine, not sure that can happen.

A mess indeed.

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 8:02

Post #15 of 59 (1035 views)

This doesn't look like it's going to end well for Hamas. Israel shrugging off suggestions for a ceasefire and basically saying they want to crush them so this doesn't' happen anymore.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Wednesday during a visit to a hospital where children injured in the rocket attacks received treatment. “An hour ago, we assassinated senior commanders in Hamas's headquarters, including the commander of Gaza City and other commanders. This is just the beginning. We will hit them with strikes they have never dreamed of.”

Israel rebuffs US calls for ceasefire as Blinken sends envoy to region (msn.com)

Post deleted by spudone [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 8:17

Post #16 of 59 (1014 views)

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [spudone] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 8:33

Post #17 of 59 (996 views)

spudone wrote:

SDG wrote:

TimeIsUp wrote:

SDG wrote:

Hamas is truly poking the bear and they know that. There only hope is to get some other country or public support on their side and get the rest of the world involved against Israel. A straight up fight of Israel v Hamas would leave Hamas with no land and an even worse living situation than they currently have.

Biden came out yesterday in support of Israel saying they have a right to defend themselves from Hamas. While this is a common sense statement, many on the far left are bristling at his assertion. Tlaib, Ilhan, AOC.

For the sake of the kids and innocent folks involved, hopefully it ends soon.

I believe the counterpoint to this is that Israel is largely causing the provocations from Hamas and then crying wolf when they get a response. Statements like this coming from people like Biden presumably give them the backing they need to further their incursions into Palestinian land. It’s the long game Israel has learned works to perfection.

I agree and that is definitely how those supporting Hamas "the squad" see it.

This goes back to 1948 where Israel fought to take control of the land they currently control and moved Palestine away and into the Gaza strip. Israel does not see itself as an occupier but the rightful owner of the land. Palestine sees itself as being owned and oppressed by folks that took over their rightful land.

A two state solution seems to make sense but from Israel standpoint, I could see them saying we shouldn't have to give them anything and Palestine saying, we want all of Jerusalem and our holy sites, and to be recognized as a nation. With Hamas, a group deemed to be a terrorist organization, running things for Palestine, not sure that can happen.

A mess indeed.

A 2 state solution was tried long ago with the partition plan, and refused by the Palestinians. They made their bed.

Well it was also tried and Israel refused, so they made their bed also. Not really fair at all to say the Palestinians are the party being the sole source of dispute here. It is unreasonable to place blame on the Palestinians because they did not automatically accept a deal from Israel that was heavily biased to Israel. I mean, the UN voted overwhelmingly for the borders to be set as the pre-1967 borders, but Israel refuses to have that as the baseline for the borders.

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [chaparral] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 8:42

Post #18 of 59 (986 views)

chaparral wrote:

Well it was also tried and Israel refused, so they made their bed also. Not really fair at all to say the Palestinians are the party being the sole source of dispute here. It is unreasonable to place blame on the Palestinians because they did not automatically accept a deal from Israel that was heavily biased to Israel. I mean, the UN voted overwhelmingly for the borders to be set as the pre-1967 borders, but Israel refuses to have that as the baseline for the borders.

I don't know what the answer is but I'm always bemused by the "they made their bed" crowd - what is that endorsing? Permanent apartheid justified by perceived (but highly debatable) fault in negotiations decades ago? Or something even darker? Even if we stipulate that Israel would be justified in wiping out Hamas that's not a solution, it just puts off the reckoning for another generation.

"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

Post deleted by spudone [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 8:45

Post #19 of 59 (979 views)

Last edited by: spudone: May 13, 21 8:53

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [SDG] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 8:54

Post #20 of 59 (964 views)

SDG wrote:

Biden came out yesterday in support of Israel saying they have a right to defend themselves from Hamas. While this is a common sense statement, many on the far left are bristling at his assertion..

Biden is correct in saying that Israel saying they have a right to defend themselves from Hamas.
His critics are correct because he did not take Israel to task on how they are 'defending' themselves. Killing women an children, blasting places of worship, and continuing the general apartheid that has been policy for the past while is simply wrong.

Ultimately this will end badly. Both for the Arabs and Israelis. Maybe not now but within a few generations.

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [spudone] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 9:02

Post #21 of 59 (951 views)

spudone wrote:

chaparral wrote:

spudone wrote:

SDG wrote:

TimeIsUp wrote:

SDG wrote:

Hamas is truly poking the bear and they know that. There only hope is to get some other country or public support on their side and get the rest of the world involved against Israel. A straight up fight of Israel v Hamas would leave Hamas with no land and an even worse living situation than they currently have.

Biden came out yesterday in support of Israel saying they have a right to defend themselves from Hamas. While this is a common sense statement, many on the far left are bristling at his assertion. Tlaib, Ilhan, AOC.

For the sake of the kids and innocent folks involved, hopefully it ends soon.

I believe the counterpoint to this is that Israel is largely causing the provocations from Hamas and then crying wolf when they get a response. Statements like this coming from people like Biden presumably give them the backing they need to further their incursions into Palestinian land. It’s the long game Israel has learned works to perfection.

I agree and that is definitely how those supporting Hamas "the squad" see it.

This goes back to 1948 where Israel fought to take control of the land they currently control and moved Palestine away and into the Gaza strip. Israel does not see itself as an occupier but the rightful owner of the land. Palestine sees itself as being owned and oppressed by folks that took over their rightful land.

A two state solution seems to make sense but from Israel standpoint, I could see them saying we shouldn't have to give them anything and Palestine saying, we want all of Jerusalem and our holy sites, and to be recognized as a nation. With Hamas, a group deemed to be a terrorist organization, running things for Palestine, not sure that can happen.

A mess indeed.

A 2 state solution was tried long ago with the partition plan, and refused by the Palestinians. They made their bed.

Well it was also tried and Israel refused, so they made their bed also. Not really fair at all to say the Palestinians are the party being the sole source of dispute here. It is unreasonable to place blame on the Palestinians because they did not automatically accept a deal from Israel that was heavily biased to Israel. I mean, the UN voted overwhelmingly for the borders to be set as the pre-1967 borders, but Israel refuses to have that as the baseline for the borders.

After years of being shelled from the Golan Heights - which was what their opponents did rather than agree to a 2 state solution - why would Israel give that back to them? It's fucking insane.

But if you really want to get to the bottom line: they've been fighting for ages. They will continue fighting for ages. And neither side will accept a solution that doesn't grant them full control of Jerusalem.

Zzz. Let them go at it.

Huh, when was Israel shelled from the Golan Heights? I guess it happens in the 1960s, but since Israel has occupied the Golan Heights, when has Israel been shelled from the Golan Heights? Sure Israel positions in the Golan Heights were shelled, but not from the Golan Heights. But from across the border. So no they did not shell Israel from the Golan heights instead of agreeing to a two state solution. That is just nonsense.

Why should Israel give up land that is not theirs? Maybe because it is not theirs.

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [chaparral] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 9:09

Post #22 of 59 (938 views)

Middle East history class is back in session again? The more things change the more they stay the same. Did someone say intractable?

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [gofigure] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 9:18

Post #23 of 59 (924 views)

gofigure wrote:

Middle East history class is back in session again? The more things change the more they stay the same. Did someone say intractable?

Wait a minute, I thought Jared brought peace to the Middle East? Didn't he get a Noble Peace Prize for it?

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 9:20

Post #24 of 59 (917 views)

axlsix3 wrote:

gofigure wrote:

Middle East history class is back in session again? The more things change the more they stay the same. Did someone say intractable?

Wait a minute, I thought Jared brought peace to the Middle East? Didn't he get a Noble Peace Prize for it?

You are so close. I’ll give you a hint. Jared is no longer in a position to keep the peace.

Thanks Democrats!

Re: Meanwhile in Jerusalem [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 21 9:21

Post #25 of 59 (641 views)

axlsix3 wrote:

gofigure wrote:

Middle East history class is back in session again? The more things change the more they stay the same. Did someone say intractable?

Wait a minute, I thought Jared brought peace to the Middle East? Didn't he get a Noble Peace Prize for it?

Sure and then Biden f'cked it up.

YES both statements are false.... Neither need to be brought up in this thread.

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