Anyone who will vote for Trump is either a white supremacist or an enabler of white supremacy.

They might be a lot of other things and have a host of other views, but they are in one of those two pots and there’s no way around it.

Well to be fair, at least in this thread I think the only comment you made in favor of Trump as a choice for President is, "choose the guy who has gotten things done. Not the guy in politics for years without a plan." And then you went on to say that a drawback of Biden is that he considers others' counsel (which you pejoratively referred to as "whispering in his ear.")

That's fairly thin and vague given the very specific drawbacks to Trump.

I think that the drip, drip, drip of constant madness coming from the occupant of the White House has inured many of his supporters, but if you were suddenly presented with everything he's done over the last 4 years, surely you would run a mile.

When Trump stood behind Rob Porter even after photos of his battered ex wife were released, normal people were aghast. But most Trump supporters managed, somehow, to brush it off. Maybe they avoided news sources they knew would paint him in a poor light. And this process has been repeated so many times, but I think his base have managed to find a way to keep explaining it all away somehow.

And there is so much to shake your head at. So I think people don't understand how, given EVERYTHING (and there is just so much utter crap from Russia collusion (yes, there was), to Ukraine/impeachment, to the COVID response, to the racial divisions and everything in between...), any sane, rational, intelligent, objective person could still vote for him as our president.

I do my own research. I don’t watch Facebook videos or start with a google search and go down the rabbit hole. If you do that, you only are given articles and videos that are one sided. If you watch a Trump video and skip a Biden video, you start only getting Trump videos in your queue. And vice versa.

Do your own google searches. Clear your cookies and history and do it again.

Start with “Trumps accomplishments” and “Biden’s accomplishments”.

As they say, give a man a fish... or teach them to fish.

Why tell you why I’m voting Trump when I can tell you what I did to decide I’m voting Trump.

Let me end with Trump’s an asshole. He still gets my vote. I’m not voting for another guy who I feel isn’t qualified for the job and he will be the puppet of Congress. Besides him being too old that I find it doubtful he will serve 2 terms. Not enough time to get anything done.

If Trump paid $750 in taxes, he will get audited and the IRS can sort it out. Half of the crap people hate him for will have its checks and balances. It’s not relevant to my vote. If he broke the law, he will have his day in court as everyone does.

Ppl who support trump won’t speak out so readily on this forum because this forum is probably more center / left leaning and we (not only the right wing nutters do this) are in our own echo chamber.

Any American citizen IMO should be very worried after this debate ... it did basically nothing for Biden (in fact he’ll be forgotten very quickly) but acted as a platform for Trump to continue to spread his lies and call up the Proud Boys - who are known to be very violent and atm no doubt - getting a surge in recruits.

You factor in everything talked about from the Social Dilemma (pls watch this NOW if you have Netflix) and you can see what will happen come Nov. Cuz those engineers who built AI in social media didn’t create it (the AI) to understand the difference btwn right and wrong - only what can bring in more clicks and advertising revenue. Controversy = more clicks = $$$

The best thing for Biden to do is not to agree to any more debates until 1. There’s an independent moderator (FOX is not!) and 2. The moderator has the ability to turn off the mic when someone isn’t following the rules.

Trump ("I have one of the great memories of all-time") said today, ""I don't know who Proud Boys are but whoever they are -- they have to stand down."
Same excuse he used 4 years ago with David Duke (not to mention numerous others who have accused him of various crimes.)

My husband presents many challenges. He has cancer right now. He’s vulnerable despite his moronic views. This cancer might save our marriage.

Trump ("I have one of the great memories of all-time") said today, ""I don't know who Proud Boys are but whoever they are -- they have to stand down."
Same excuse he used 4 years ago with David Duke (not to mention numerous others who have accused him of various crimes.)

I guess we are all wrong. Trump said he "won" the debate according to every poll he saw, at least 6 of them.

I feel so foolish now, thinking he was terrible.

The national proud boys poll has him winning by a considerable margin.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Any list I find about "Trumps accomplishments" has been debunked and discredited 6 ways from Sunday.

When you say "he gets things done" you completely ignore the fact that he doesn't really do anything. He watches TV. He plays golf. But he doesn't do his job. He doesn't read reports. He doesn't act on intelligence. He does nothing.

The fact that anything has gotten done is a credit to the people working around him and in spite of him.

Now if you want to talk about what he hasn't accomplished that could be fun.

Considering that he had the House and the Senate for two full years it's amazing what he didn't accomplish.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

They get bashed when they either

1) list a few things, most of which aren't actually true, or
2) copy/paste the ridiculous meme list of things that Trump didn't actually do (most just happened)

The Trump supporter here (or on Facebook, in my experience) isn't an honest broker. For instance, atl_tony said he hadn't decided because of their stands on abortion, and he wanted to "research" more. A number of people provided information on their policy positions, but of course he never responded. I even followed up to see how his research was going. Amstel gives a bunch of things as his reasons, but when people call out the actions that Trump has in reality taken, he doesn't respond.

You'll be just like them. Prove me wrong by actually engaging in a discussion of why you support Trump. Own it when you think his tax cut, which massively increased the debt to the benefit of corporations and the wealthy, was a good thing. Be prepared to defend your view on supply-side economics. Defend his response to the pandemic.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Let me guess, Occupy Democrats?

Do some more research. He actually is the first president to accomplish most of what he said he would before he took Presidency as well.

As far as people around him getting things done, who cares? That’s delegation. Things are getting done. Do we expect our government to only be the President? I could care less if he sat on a beach and did zoom meetings all day as long as things were getting done. I am self employed and last week I took the day off and went to Road America to drive my car on the race track. My employees were at work.

That’s just noise man.

He has largely corrected his wicked slice off the tee, so yes things are getting done.

You can’t be serious.

As if the Democratic Party hasn’t done the same stupid stuff. How many memes of Trump with a Clorox bottle or other dumb crap floats around.

I ignore it on both sides. I also hate negative campaigning. When they were both given open air to talk about anything, they both just talked about how bad the other is. Ridiculous. I ignore that stuff as well.

I was waiting for Biden to sway me. Tell me your plan. I don’t buy into false hopes of bettering Obamacare. I do believe Trump will go after big Pharma. I don’t believe in the green crap and creation of jobs... who is paying for this? I find most Biden voters just hate Trump really, really bad. And yeah... they have good reason. I’m just not voting for someone’s character on this election. This isn’t 1980 anymore.

As far as things not being true, I fact checked Biden during the debate. I recorded the debate and hit pause during moments to fact check and then started to play the debate again. He was incorrect in several counts. How is he different than Trump?

As far as rape charges- let the police figure that out. Even Biden has this Tera Reid claim of sexual abuse. It’s all noise on both sides. I’m letting the police, IRS, FBI, etc figure that stuff out. I’m not voting in those issues. Don’t judge me and I won’t judge you if you are. I get it.

With all the bullshit in Trump, very little had ever stuck. Even last night with the proud boys garbage.... shit, how many photos of the Clinton’s are with David Duke?

I don’t see the KKK lynching people near my house, but I do see burning buildings, and destruction. Only 30 min from my house and blocks from 2 of my rental houses in Kenosha.

Yep, and that's the scary part. That a significant portion of the country I love will vote for a authoritarian, bigoted, malignant narcissistic madman. Wish you all would have stayed awake or had better civics teachers.

That is actually one of my biggest problems with Trump is his inability to get the Federal government to actually work as it should. I haven't seen solid performance as an executive officer. First, he took forever to put people into position that needed to be filled. Then he doesn't give them much autonomy to work and constantly pushes them to push the more partisan side of his agenda (most activities by the federal government are pretty non-partisan). He ignores the stuff that needs to be done, but isn't "sexy". Then when the people he originally found get tired of his shtick and quit, he doesn't bother replacing them or tries to circumvent Congress role in approving the replacements. The effectiveness and efficiency of the whole federal government has been significantly damaged.

On the pro side, that makes it so that the policies he pushes that I disagree with are only weakly implemented. On the downside, the policies that I do agree with are also weakly implemented and now are hyper partisan.

I would really like to know when the federal government worked as it should. Look at many of the senators? It’s really sickening. It isn’t just Trump my friend. Even the state governors..... ugh

I should mention that beyond the debates last night and talking on this thread, I put a halt on politics. It was really eating me up. I had to get back to my own job and family before I lost my mind. It’s terrible everywhere.

That is generally how I feel about it all too. Most of us can't really do much but get angry about it, especially at a national level. Sort of like rooting for a sports team, it can be emotionally exhausting and deep down you know you don't make a difference.

But the US government has done some great things both because of and in spite of the leaders we elect. There is plenty wrong with it but I think it is the best we can get and one of the best in the world.

I'm not going down that rabbit hole. And I respect that you actually engage here, and are clearly intelligent.

I honestly just don't care about accomplishments. I'll take a vacuous placeholder over Trump.

It's supposed to be conservatives who valued "character" above all, but in this case I think Biden's character is in a totally different class than Trump. And not because Biden's is good by any absolute standard. Just because Trump is a terrible, broken human being.

And I don't like the people around Trump anymore. Early on there were some good people. I don't like who's left.

Can you imagine trump in the senate trying to accomplish anything? Who the hell is going to work with him?

he certainly wouldn't be as good as old Joe was at it. Nobody worked with Senate segregationists better than old Joe

https://www.npr.org/...egationist-lawmakers

trump's speech writer is a white supremacist.

I agree, that was a good line. Though I would have said "fucking clown."

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

This is how people truly learn one another’s position. I’m choosing a candidate based on accomplishments and you are not. Fair enough. That’s how we are different.

I feel that the world has altered over time and much that is generally accepted today once wasn’t. Heck, in 1980 if someone had a tattoo they were judged. We would have chosen a Presidential candidate who was married and never divorced. It’s just not the same world anymore. I would like to have candidates who are “stand-up” people, but I didn’t think Hillary or Trump were and the same applies this election, in my mind. Biden wasn’t being factual during most of the debate. I’m open minded. I wish he dazzled me with a real plan and instead I saw his tactic as making Trump look bad and unfortunately much of what he said wasn’t true. So, I didn’t change my vote. I really thought Pete or Bloomberg had a better chance, but it is what it is.

A friend I ride with feels as you do. We are great friends and always will be. We can talk productively a out politics. It’s enlightening.