This is a shitshow. ____________ "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." John Rogers
Joe is picking up steam. He has gotten into a rhythm on ignoring Trump. Malignant narcissists hate to be ignored and mocked. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Exactly ____________ "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." John Rogers
Terrible. Biden is hopeless at sticking to his talking points, and he’s going to fall into Trump’s trap of leading him into a squabbling gutter. It’s sad when he will have known what Trump was going to do.
Why on earth would you do this to yourself? You couldn’t pay me to watch the shit show that I know it will be. How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Great entertainment Just Triing Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006. Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
I hate both these guys. This cannot be the best this country can do.
Its not. But anyone smart enough or good enough to be our president is smart enough to know its not worth being POTUS. We have failed somewhere as a society.
Are Biden and Trump making this horrible or just a one sided shit show
Biden isn't backing down to the bully. Trump os coming across as a complete ass. ____________ "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." John Rogers
Joe isn’t sharp enough to smash the BS softballs he’s lobbing over the plate. The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
The election is a referendum on Trump, esp. his handling of COVID. Biden is saying that Trump failed miserably. Trump is insisting that Biden would have failed. Only one of this has actually happened in reality.
Biden is basically saying I'm not Trump. He has not offered one concrete policy point.
Trump has to stop interrupting it's annoying
Free H.C for those on Medicaide, is one policy point he was clear on...
And Trumps, H.C. plan... or any point in this..
I don't think the SC discussion is worth raising in the Debate. Its a sideshow of true politics Just Triing Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006. Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
This is the BEST debate ever.. Just Triing Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006. Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
And what was Donalds Grades in College.. oh right he threatened to sue the college if they ever released them... Just Triing Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006. Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
Did Trump just say Biden plays more golf than him??? Just Triing Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006. Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
The election is a referendum on Trump, esp. his handling of COVID. Biden is saying that Trump failed miserably. Trump is insisting that Biden would have failed. Only one of this has actually happened in reality.
Exactly. The 200K number annoys me. Trump may have caused a ton of deaths or saved a ton of lives but the 200K number should be evaluated independently
This doesn't change anyone's mind. Unless they were waiting to see if Biden would come out drooling, and he ahsn't.
The debates have outlived their usefulness. Long form interviews with each getting the same questions would be better.
Or maybe we go game show and put them each in soundproof booths so they can't see each other or hear each other. Or maybe put them both in sound proof booths so we can't hear either one. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
this is like watching toddlers debating the shape of clouds or something
There are times when you hear Trump's mindless interruption and zero regard for common decency and think of that punk 7 year old who you want to slap out of his nikes but you can't because he's 7. Trump deserves a hell of a slap.
Also this isn't toddlers debating clouds, this is ONE toddler debating clouds and a Presidential nominee.
This doesn't change anyone's mind. Unless they were waiting to see if Biden would come out drooling, and he ahsn't.
The debates have outlived their usefulness. Long form interviews with each getting the same questions would be better.
Or maybe we go game show and put them each in soundproof booths so they can't see each other or hear each other. Or maybe put them both in sound proof booths so we can't hear either one.
I vote for soundproof glass booths where they can see, but not hear each other. The moderator controls who talks and for how long, but we would still get to see fuckstain trump stick out his tongue and make obscene gestures and Biden and eventually the moderator after he cuts his mic a few times.
This doesn't change anyone's mind. Unless they were waiting to see if Biden would come out drooling, and he ahsn't.
The debates have outlived their usefulness. Long form interviews with each getting the same questions would be better.
Or maybe we go game show and put them each in soundproof booths so they can't see each other or hear each other. Or maybe put them both in sound proof booths so we can't hear either one.
Eh I said in the other thread that my mind was open (either Biden, Jorgensen or no vote) and I'm fairly impressed with Biden, his composure and decent clarity. He's stumbling here and there but his messages are clear, and I largely agree with them, even if I disagree with much of his party's platform.
As bad as Biden is at debating I just have to hope the average American can see through Trump’s BS.
This debate isn’t going to change any minds.
90% have made up their minds, but that does leave 10% on the fence. I'll add that Joe doesn't seem to sleepy to me. You know when trump is lying whenever his lips are moving.
I’m embarrassed to say I’m actually watching. I’m all in for Biden this election but I am willing to admit that Biden looks like a bumbling fool in this debate.
Not that there are more than a handful of votes to be swayed at this point, but Biden is just not up to the task. He’ll win. I’ll vote for him. Let’s hope Kamala is ready to run this country.
This doesn't change anyone's mind. Unless they were waiting to see if Biden would come out drooling, and he ahsn't.
The debates have outlived their usefulness. Long form interviews with each getting the same questions would be better.
Or maybe we go game show and put them each in soundproof booths so they can't see each other or hear each other. Or maybe put them both in sound proof booths so we can't hear either one.
I vote for soundproof glass booths where they can see, but not hear each other. The moderator controls who talks and for how long, but we would still get to see fuckstain trump stick out his tongue and make obscene gestures and Biden and eventually the moderator after he cuts his mic a few times.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
This doesn't change anyone's mind. Unless they were waiting to see if Biden would come out drooling, and he ahsn't.
The debates have outlived their usefulness. Long form interviews with each getting the same questions would be better.
Or maybe we go game show and put them each in soundproof booths so they can't see each other or hear each other. Or maybe put them both in sound proof booths so we can't hear either one.
Eh I said in the other thread that my mind was open (either Biden, Jorgensen or no vote) and I'm fairly impressed with Biden, his composure and decent clarity. He's stumbling here and there but his messages are clear, and I largely agree with them, even if I disagree with much of his party's platform.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Biden's stutter coming thru. He is counter punching when Trump gets personal.
Telling Trump "you are worst President ever" stung him.
Good clown reference. ____________ "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." John Rogers
This doesn't change anyone's mind. Unless they were waiting to see if Biden would come out drooling, and he ahsn't.
The debates have outlived their usefulness. Long form interviews with each getting the same questions would be better.
Or maybe we go game show and put them each in soundproof booths so they can't see each other or hear each other. Or maybe put them both in sound proof booths so we can't hear either one.
Eh I said in the other thread that my mind was open (either Biden, Jorgensen or no vote) and I'm fairly impressed with Biden, his composure and decent clarity. He's stumbling here and there but his messages are clear, and I largely agree with them, even if I disagree with much of his party's platform.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Is that an option?
This should be the last “debate†for this cycle.
And who “won or lost†is not the question.
The question is who embarrassed our country and diminished the office?
oK BUT I RUNNdd out of booze all reADY...... Just Triing Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006. Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
This doesn't change anyone's mind. Unless they were waiting to see if Biden would come out drooling, and he ahsn't.
The debates have outlived their usefulness. Long form interviews with each getting the same questions would be better.
Or maybe we go game show and put them each in soundproof booths so they can't see each other or hear each other. Or maybe put them both in sound proof booths so we can't hear either one.
Eh I said in the other thread that my mind was open (either Biden, Jorgensen or no vote) and I'm fairly impressed with Biden, his composure and decent clarity. He's stumbling here and there but his messages are clear, and I largely agree with them, even if I disagree with much of his party's platform.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Is that an option?
That would be awesome. Then Trump could debate himself.
Eh I said in the other thread that my mind was open (either Biden, Jorgensen or no vote) and I'm fairly impressed with Biden, his composure and decent clarity. He's stumbling here and there but his messages are clear, and I largely agree with them, even if I disagree with much of his party's platform.
What is his covid plan?
Are you watching this shitshow? Do you think Trump had or has any input on a concrete covid plan? I don't care if Biden has a plan, Trump is repulsive.
No no.. just BIG 10 football... EVEN less than a BFD Just Triing Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006. Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
Eh I said in the other thread that my mind was open (either Biden, Jorgensen or no vote) and I'm fairly impressed with Biden, his composure and decent clarity. He's stumbling here and there but his messages are clear, and I largely agree with them, even if I disagree with much of his party's platform.
What is his covid plan?
Are you watching this shitshow? Do you think Trump had or has any input on a concrete covid plan? I don't care if Biden has a plan, Trump is repulsive.
Different things. I was expecting Biden to at least mention some policies. He's basically saying you suck so vote for me
My favorite is still I brought back B1G football. Surprised he didn't throw on a Brutus hat
Biden missed a huge opportunity for a sound bite when Trump mentioned Big10 football.
“Two hundred thousand Americans have died and he’s worried about football!â€
He also missed a major softball when he brought up injecting bleach and Trump responded that he was being sarcastic.
One, that isn't sarcasm.
Two, being sarcastic about treating a lethal pandemic that is killing Americans isn't acceptable. The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Eh I said in the other thread that my mind was open (either Biden, Jorgensen or no vote) and I'm fairly impressed with Biden, his composure and decent clarity. He's stumbling here and there but his messages are clear, and I largely agree with them, even if I disagree with much of his party's platform.
What is his covid plan?
Are you watching this shitshow? Do you think Trump had or has any input on a concrete covid plan? I don't care if Biden has a plan, Trump is repulsive.
Different things. I was expecting Biden to at least mention some policies. He's basically saying you suck so vote for me
And what policy has trump talked about...
Someone needs to explain to trump, that you don't always get the last word.. how many times has he said.. but he made a statement I get to answer... Just Triing Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006. Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
I was interrupted during Trump's call to address white supremacists. Did he say "stand by..." and then start talking about ANTIFA? The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Eh I said in the other thread that my mind was open (either Biden, Jorgensen or no vote) and I'm fairly impressed with Biden, his composure and decent clarity. He's stumbling here and there but his messages are clear, and I largely agree with them, even if I disagree with much of his party's platform.
What is his covid plan?
Are you watching this shitshow? Do you think Trump had or has any input on a concrete covid plan? I don't care if Biden has a plan, Trump is repulsive.
Different things. I was expecting Biden to at least mention some policies. He's basically saying you suck so vote for me
What do you expect when Trump is shouting him down at every turn?
And to be fair, if you watch Trump do you really see someone you want as the head of our government and the public face of this country? This is a disgrace.
It looked like Trump got his mic cut for a second while Wallace was scolding him. The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Can't trump afford a nicely tailored suit... That suit looks like shit... Just Triing Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006. Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
Can't trump afford a nicely tailored suit... That suit looks like shit...
All the tailoring in the world ain't hiding that fat ass, And stubby little fingers. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Neither has one and neither can articulate what they will do going forward.
Trump also had a great opportunity to lay out his healthcare plan and oops, still doesn't have that either.
I was looking forward to the debate and have turned it off. Trump does nothing but interrupt and then state lies and Biden is slow to react to the softballs.
You guys need a better way to find good Presidential candidates.
Eh I said in the other thread that my mind was open (either Biden, Jorgensen or no vote) and I'm fairly impressed with Biden, his composure and decent clarity. He's stumbling here and there but his messages are clear, and I largely agree with them, even if I disagree with much of his party's platform.
What is his covid plan?
Are you watching this shitshow? Do you think Trump had or has any input on a concrete covid plan? I don't care if Biden has a plan, Trump is repulsive.
Different things. I was expecting Biden to at least mention some policies. He's basically saying you suck so vote for me
And what policy has trump talked about...
Someone needs to explain to trump, that you don't always get the last word.. how many times has he said.. but he made a statement I get to answer...
Trump has offered nothing but i expected nothing. Biden I was expecting policy.
Eh I said in the other thread that my mind was open (either Biden, Jorgensen or no vote) and I'm fairly impressed with Biden, his composure and decent clarity. He's stumbling here and there but his messages are clear, and I largely agree with them, even if I disagree with much of his party's platform.
What is his covid plan?
Are you watching this shitshow? Do you think Trump had or has any input on a concrete covid plan? I don't care if Biden has a plan, Trump is repulsive.
Different things. I was expecting Biden to at least mention some policies. He's basically saying you suck so vote for me
And what policy has trump talked about...
Someone needs to explain to trump, that you don't always get the last word.. how many times has he said.. but he made a statement I get to answer...
Trump has offered nothing but i expected nothing. Biden I was expecting policy.
Democrats have tried the policy approach. It doesn't engage people. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Eh I said in the other thread that my mind was open (either Biden, Jorgensen or no vote) and I'm fairly impressed with Biden, his composure and decent clarity. He's stumbling here and there but his messages are clear, and I largely agree with them, even if I disagree with much of his party's platform.
What is his covid plan?
Are you watching this shitshow? Do you think Trump had or has any input on a concrete covid plan? I don't care if Biden has a plan, Trump is repulsive.
Different things. I was expecting Biden to at least mention some policies. He's basically saying you suck so vote for me
What do you expect when Trump is shouting him down at every turn?
And to be fair, if you watch Trump do you really see someone you want as the head of our government and the public face of this country? This is a disgrace.
Eh I said in the other thread that my mind was open (either Biden, Jorgensen or no vote) and I'm fairly impressed with Biden, his composure and decent clarity. He's stumbling here and there but his messages are clear, and I largely agree with them, even if I disagree with much of his party's platform.
What is his covid plan?
Are you watching this shitshow? Do you think Trump had or has any input on a concrete covid plan? I don't care if Biden has a plan, Trump is repulsive.
Different things. I was expecting Biden to at least mention some policies. He's basically saying you suck so vote for me
And what policy has trump talked about...
Someone needs to explain to trump, that you don't always get the last word.. how many times has he said.. but he made a statement I get to answer...
Trump has offered nothing but i expected nothing. Biden I was expecting policy.
That’s Biden’s biggest problem.
Trump doesn’t have to follow any rules. Biden does.
Trump doesn’t have to have a policy. Biden does.
Trump doesn’t have to be coherent. Biden does. How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Eh I said in the other thread that my mind was open (either Biden, Jorgensen or no vote) and I'm fairly impressed with Biden, his composure and decent clarity. He's stumbling here and there but his messages are clear, and I largely agree with them, even if I disagree with much of his party's platform.
What is his covid plan?
Are you watching this shitshow? Do you think Trump had or has any input on a concrete covid plan? I don't care if Biden has a plan, Trump is repulsive.
Different things. I was expecting Biden to at least mention some policies. He's basically saying you suck so vote for me
And what policy has trump talked about...
Someone needs to explain to trump, that you don't always get the last word.. how many times has he said.. but he made a statement I get to answer...
Trump has offered nothing but i expected nothing. Biden I was expecting policy.
Democrats have tried the policy approach. It doesn't engage people.
Not the Hillary technocrat BS. But just something more than you suck because 200K people died.
Biden should have countered. Curious why he didn't
I think he isn't sharp enough to move quickly on his feet while trying to keep on message amidst Trump's nonstop verbal diarrhea. The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Not gonna lie I thought Trump made some sense on his climate change message. CA forest management and car regulations/cost of vehicles.
Don't forget. Trump's idea of forest management literally includes raking the leaves. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Footgun....new favorite word. TY! ____________ "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." John Rogers
Wow.. that last Question and answer's was SCARY.. Just Triing Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006. Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
Hmm, it is almost like he is a bigot that supports them.
He said stand down and then “be ready†or some crap. Holy F! How hard was that to answer ?!? Trump could have taken MUCH better quips if he had a brain. I mean, how could he not just say “I want everyone to vote! I want all voices heard, but I want to reduce the chance of fraud by not using the mail system. And Joe if your supporters can riot in groups, then they shouldn’t have a problem with groups at the polls in person.†But NOOOOOO. HE WAS GARBAGE. What an embarrassment. What a disgrace. What a piece of flaming shit! Wow. WOW!
“Normally calling the president a clown, the worst president ever, and to shut up would be crossing the line, but I think tonight that showed Joe Biden could keep his cool and rise above.â€
Wait what? This is why I hate reporters.
For the record, I really wish Biden would have simply bit his tongue during those moments.
Hmm, it is almost like he is a bigot that supports them.
He said stand down and then “be ready†or some crap. Holy F! How hard was that to answer ?!? Trump could have taken MUCH better quips if he had a brain. I mean, how could he not just say “I want everyone to vote! I want all voices heard, but I want to reduce the chance of fraud by not using the mail system. And Joe if your supporters can riot in groups, then they shouldn’t have a problem with groups at the polls in person.†But NOOOOOO. HE WAS GARBAGE. What an embarrassment. What a disgrace. What a piece of flaming shit! Wow. WOW!
He literally told white supremacists to “stand back and stand by.â€
They surely heard that loud and clear. That will be on t-shirts by tomorrow. That was a huge boost to the Proud Boys, the Klan, etc. They are literally high-fiving right now.
For the record, I really wish Biden would have simply bit his tongue during those moments.
This. If he just went silent and smirked and pointed at Trump and his tantrums, he DOMINATES moving forward. The high road will win him the middle BIG time. Trump slits his own throat.
Synopsis? I turned it off as Wallace was asking his question.
Trump basically saying he won’t accept the election results and wouldn’t say that people shouldn’t riot or be violent.
Thats not what he said. He said if its a fair election then yes, but if theres 10s of thousands of fraudulent ballots then hes not ok with that. No clue what that entails, but thats actually what he said, not that hes not accepting the result.
When Rove calls it a toss up and Santorum says Trump overdid it, it can't be a good night for their side. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Hmm, it is almost like he is a bigot that supports them.
He said stand down and then “be ready†or some crap. Holy F! How hard was that to answer ?!? Trump could have taken MUCH better quips if he had a brain. I mean, how could he not just say “I want everyone to vote! I want all voices heard, but I want to reduce the chance of fraud by not using the mail system. And Joe if your supporters can riot in groups, then they shouldn’t have a problem with groups at the polls in person.†But NOOOOOO. HE WAS GARBAGE. What an embarrassment. What a disgrace. What a piece of flaming shit! Wow. WOW!
He literally told white supremacists to “stand back and stand by.â€
They surely heard that loud and clear. That will be on t-shirts by tomorrow. That was a huge boost to the Proud Boys, the Klan, etc. They are literally high-fiving right now.
Seriously, I was aghast. I can NOT believe he said that! And you’re right, they heard it loud and clear. Disgusting!
For the record, I really wish Biden would have simply bit his tongue during those moments.
This. If he just went silent and smirked and pointed at Trump and his tantrums, he DOMINATES moving forward. The high road will win him the middle BIG time. Trump slits his own throat.
Hmm, it is almost like he is a bigot that supports them.
He said stand down and then “be ready†or some crap. Holy F! How hard was that to answer ?!? Trump could have taken MUCH better quips if he had a brain. I mean, how could he not just say “I want everyone to vote! I want all voices heard, but I want to reduce the chance of fraud by not using the mail system. And Joe if your supporters can riot in groups, then they shouldn’t have a problem with groups at the polls in person.†But NOOOOOO. HE WAS GARBAGE. What an embarrassment. What a disgrace. What a piece of flaming shit! Wow. WOW!
He literally told white supremacists to “stand back and stand by.â€
They surely heard that loud and clear. That will be on t-shirts by tomorrow. That was a huge boost to the Proud Boys, the Klan, etc. They are literally high-fiving right now.
And guess what, the white supremacists are taking it as support:
Do we need to point out again the huge support trump has among white supremacists? Or do we just take that for granted now?
Biden won. All he had to do was show up be reasonably on point. Which he did. Trump makes personal attacks on Biden's kids just very lame. Trump couldn't stop interrupting. Dumb statements about 47 years you did nothing about Biden etc. Biden could just park it at this point. They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot
Synopsis? I turned it off as Wallace was asking his question.
Trump basically saying he won’t accept the election results and wouldn’t say that people shouldn’t riot or be violent.
was that before or after Joe Biden said his Green New Deal would pay for itself?
Makes sense, not addressing climate change is going to cost an astronomical amount. You have any idea how much a sea wall around New York would cost, let alone other cities?
Biden won. All he had to do was show up be reasonably on point. Which he did. Trump makes personal attacks on Biden's kids just very lame. Trump couldn't stop interrupting. Dumb statements about 47 years you did nothing about Biden etc. Biden could just park it at this point.
Biden was acceptable in an impossible mudfest, which means he won.
Biden won. All he had to do was show up be reasonably on point. Which he did. Trump makes personal attacks on Biden's kids just very lame. Trump couldn't stop interrupting. Dumb statements about 47 years you did nothing about Biden etc. Biden could just park it at this point.
Biden was acceptable in an impossible mudfest, which means he won.
Also, if nobody is changing their minds based on this debate, the person with a large lead clearly won.
Also, one of them did not condemn white supremacists (instead supported them). So I think we can all agree who lost, I meant that hopefully, we know some people will not see that as a bad thing.
Synopsis? I turned it off as Wallace was asking his question.
Trump basically saying he won’t accept the election results and wouldn’t say that people shouldn’t riot or be violent.
was that before or after Joe Biden said his Green New Deal would pay for itself?
Keep up the good fight. Some people take the easy way out. Not you by gum. But you are doing yeoman's work. Not very persuasively mind you. But you are still standing in the breach. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Synopsis? I turned it off as Wallace was asking his question.
Trump basically saying he won’t accept the election results and wouldn’t say that people shouldn’t riot or be violent.
was that before or after Joe Biden said his Green New Deal would pay for itself?
Keep up the good fight. Some people take the easy way out. Not you by gum. But you are doing yeoman's work. Not very persuasively mind you. But you are still standing in the breach.
Synopsis? I turned it off as Wallace was asking his question.
Trump basically saying he won’t accept the election results and wouldn’t say that people shouldn’t riot or be violent.
was that before or after Joe Biden said his Green New Deal would pay for itself?
Keep up the good fight. Some people take the easy way out. Not you by gum. But you are doing yeoman's work. Not very persuasively mind you. But you are still standing in the breach.
While Biden is talking about his dead son who served in Iraq, Trump disparaging Biden’s other son for being a drug addict.
Trump telling white supremacists to stand back and stand by. He refused to condemn white supremacy.
Nothing good happens in Philadelphia.
What do you mean?
Those were Trump’s lows in the debate. He attacked Hunter Biden as being a “drug addict†while Biden was talking about his dead son who served. Trump failed to condemn white supremacists. And Trump said “nothing good happens in Philadelphia.†That probably loses PA.
I thought Biden did ok. All he had to do was act like a normal person to look Presidential. Trump was just a blabbering idiot. Sure Biden might have had trouble making sentences now and then, but at least he has a brain and a conscience.
I just want to thank everyone for the synopsis of the...debate. Because of you brave souls, I did not have to sit and listen to what we all knew was going to be a shit show. You have my undying gratitude and thanks.
_____ TEAM HD Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
While Biden is talking about his dead son who served in Iraq, Trump disparaging Biden’s other son for being a drug addict.
Trump telling white supremacists to stand back and stand by. He refused to condemn white supremacy.
Nothing good happens in Philadelphia.
What do you mean?
Those were Trump’s lows in the debate. He attacked Hunter Biden as being a “drug addict†while Biden was talking about his dead son who served. Trump failed to condemn white supremacists. And Trump said “nothing good happens in Philadelphia.†That probably loses PA.
Oh god, youre asking me the lows? I dont even know, theres too many. Any time Trump opened his mouth? Any time the two or three of them were talking at the same time for longer than 2 seconds? Any time one of them insulted the other? Any time Trump was snarky?
I thought that was your reply to my correction of what Trump’s answer was. Thats why I was confused.
ABC's Jonathan Karl remarked that both men lost the debate. My wife said she felt like she was the loser. ◼︎ We shall soon be in a world in which a man may be howled down for saying that two and two make four, in which people will persecute the heresy of calling a triangle a three-sided figure, and hang a man for maddening a mob with the news that grass is green. - Chesterton
ABC's Jonathan Karl remarked that both men lost the debate. My wife said she felt like she was the loser.
Yeah, my dog was growling at the TV the entire time probably sensing my wife's general annoyance. Lester Holt summed it up perfectly "If hearing that this debate is over is music to your ears you might not be alone..."
ABC's Jonathan Karl remarked that both men lost the debate. My wife said she felt like she was the loser.
Everyone agrees that it was a shit show and an embarrassment. 40% of the country thinks that it's got nothing to do with Trump. -----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants -----------------------------RunTraining articles here: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
I cannot believe how disrespectful Trump was to both Biden and Wallace. Even worse, by interrupting Biden with insults and snide comments, Trump was disrespectful to Americans who want to hear what Biden says. Americans clearly have a right to hear Biden. Trump doesn’t care about Americans.
Trump’s interruptions and insults, meant to rattle Biden, are a form of cheating. Trump knows he cannot win against Biden in a fair debate, so Trump tried to sabotage Biden.
Trump is a disgrace to himself. I cannot have any respect for people who are impressed with Trump’s behavior.
We should all keep in mind, this was Trump's plan out of the gate. He did it from the start. He wasn't worked up, he wasn't reacting. This was the plan. The was the stupid, stupid plan. It is every bit as stupid as a lot of his other plans. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
The Proud Boys have adopted the slogan “Stand back, stand by.â€
That’s a scary thought going into an election where Trump May be ahead in some states and then fall behind days later as more mail in ballots are counted. It could get ugly and I hope our military is ready to uphold our institutions.
I cannot believe how disrespectful Trump was to both Biden and Wallace. Even worse, by interrupting Biden with insults and snide comments, Trump was disrespectful to Americans who want to hear what Biden says. Americans clearly have a right to hear Biden. Trump doesn’t care about Americans.
Trump’s interruptions and insults, meant to rattle Biden, are a form of cheating. Trump knows he cannot win against Biden in a fair debate, so Trump tried to sabotage Biden.
Trump is a disgrace to himself. I cannot have any respect for people who are impressed with Trump’s behavior.
This is a man who fears going to jail if he loses. He will happily see the country burn before accepting defeat. People need to wake up to this.
I cannot believe how disrespectful Trump was to both Biden and Wallace. Even worse, by interrupting Biden with insults and snide comments, Trump was disrespectful to Americans who want to hear what Biden says. Americans clearly have a right to hear Biden. Trump doesn’t care about Americans.
Trump’s interruptions and insults, meant to rattle Biden, are a form of cheating. Trump knows he cannot win against Biden in a fair debate, so Trump tried to sabotage Biden.
Trump is a disgrace to himself. I cannot have any respect for people who are impressed with Trump’s behavior.
This is a man who fears going to jail if he loses. He will happily see the country burn before accepting defeat. People need to wake up to this.
Exactly right. The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
The Proud Boys have adopted the slogan “Stand back, stand by.â€
That’s a scary thought going into an election where Trump May be ahead in some states and then fall behind days later as more mail in ballots are counted. It could get ugly and I hope our military is ready to uphold our institutions.
Im not sure how you want me to respond. I wasn't talking about the Proud Boys. Is this in response to my clarification of your interpretation of Trump’s reply?
We should all keep in mind, this was Trump's plan out of the gate. He did it from the start. He wasn't worked up, he wasn't reacting. This was the plan. The was the stupid, stupid plan. It is every bit as stupid as a lot of his other plans.
Yep, but I think plan is too strong of a word. It is in his nature. Like the scorpion asking the frog for a ride across the river. The frog says, why would I give you a ride you will sting me and I will then drown. The scorpion says, but if I sting you and you drown I will drown too. The frog thinks about this and what that seems logical, so agrees to give the scorpion a ride. Halfway across the scorpion stings the frog. As the frog is dying and about to drown, he asks the scorpion why he did that as he will also drown and die. The scorpion replies, because I am a scorpion, it is in my nature.
The Proud Boys have adopted the slogan “Stand back, stand by.â€
That’s a scary thought going into an election where Trump May be ahead in some states and then fall behind days later as more mail in ballots are counted. It could get ugly and I hope our military is ready to uphold our institutions.
Im not sure how you want me to respond. I wasn't talking about the Proud Boys. Is this in response to my clarification of your interpretation of Trump’s reply?
The Proud Boys have adopted the slogan “Stand back, stand by.â€
That’s a scary thought going into an election where Trump May be ahead in some states and then fall behind days later as more mail in ballots are counted. It could get ugly and I hope our military is ready to uphold our institutions.
The Proud Boys have adopted the slogan “Stand back, stand by.â€
That’s a scary thought going into an election where Trump May be ahead in some states and then fall behind days later as more mail in ballots are counted. It could get ugly and I hope our military is ready to uphold our institutions.
Im not sure how you want me to respond. I wasn't talking about the Proud Boys. Is this in response to my clarification of your interpretation of Trump’s reply?
No. It was just a general comment to the thread.
Gocha. I dont believe it will come to that. And hope Im not proven wrong in 5, 6, 7, 8? weeks.
It's been reported that Trump's team refused to allow the moderator to cut the mic as part of the debate conditions. I think it would serve Biden well to make a public issue of this and refuse to debate unless the moderator is given that ability. Trump won't do it because it's at the core of his tactic and strategy, and Joe can retire from the debates without taking any damage, and leave Trump's unhinged performance and "stand back, stand by" exhortation to white supremacists echo all the way through election day. The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
The Proud Boys have adopted the slogan “Stand back, stand by.â€
That’s a scary thought going into an election where Trump May be ahead in some states and then fall behind days later as more mail in ballots are counted. It could get ugly and I hope our military is ready to uphold our institutions.
Im not sure how you want me to respond. I wasn't talking about the Proud Boys. Is this in response to my clarification of your interpretation of Trump’s reply?
No. It was just a general comment to the thread.
Gocha. I dont believe it will come to that. And hope Im not proven wrong in 5, 6, 7, 8? weeks.
That was horrible and embarrassing on both sides. Undecided before and have zero desire to vote for either of these train wrecks after watching. Biden's only decent points came during climate discussions were obviously well rehearsed statements. Neither of them were able to capitalize and actually present any semblance of a platform. Might as well have been a pudding wrestling contest. Had higher hopes that Wallace would have controlled responses better.
I cannot believe how disrespectful Trump was to both Biden and Wallace. Even worse, by interrupting Biden with insults and snide comments, Trump was disrespectful to Americans who want to hear what Biden says. Americans clearly have a right to hear Biden. Trump doesn’t care about Americans.
Trump’s interruptions and insults, meant to rattle Biden, are a form of cheating. Trump knows he cannot win against Biden in a fair debate, so Trump tried to sabotage Biden.
Trump is a disgrace to himself. I cannot have any respect for people who are impressed with Trump’s behavior.
This is a man who fears going to jail if he loses. He will happily see the country burn before accepting defeat. People need to wake up to this.
Agree too. The guy doesn't care for anyone but himself. He could be watching tens of thousands of Americans die at the hands of other Americans and it wouldn't phase him one bit. He'd probably make a comment about how no other president had so many Americans willing to die for him.
Likewise, the so-called patriots that worship him would excuse it.
I can't think of a better ending than seeing him led away in handcuffs to spend the rest of his days in jail.
That was horrible and embarrassing on both sides. Undecided before and have zero desire to vote for either of these train wrecks after watching. Biden's only decent points came during climate discussions were obviously well rehearsed statements. Neither of them were able to capitalize and actually present any semblance of a platform. Might as well have been a pudding wrestling contest. Had higher hopes that Wallace would have controlled responses better.
Those are called policy positions.
Part of the reason I hate the debates is that they have absolutely nothing to do with being president. This situation never comes up as president. The only thing it illuminates is some of the character of the candidates. But debates are a lot less useful for that than looking at how people have lived their lives. Though of course both candidates acted pretty much how they have lived their lives during tonight's debate. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Seriously, how fucking hard is it to say "I condemn white supremacists"
Literally, that's all he had to say to answer the question.
I used to think his critics went too far in reading into his reluctance to do so--I thought he was just too cowardly to risk losing a single supporter--but he's been rock solid consistent on this question. He pretends to not know any prominent white supremacists or supremacist organizations when pressed, then lies or sidesteps in his non-reply responses, and engages in whataboutism and false moral equivalency. Ask him twenty more times and you'll get the same kind of response.
Tonight he took it to a whole new level. He spoke directly to them and put them on stand by. He is their champion. The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
That was horrible and embarrassing on both sides. Undecided before and have zero desire to vote for either of these train wrecks after watching. Biden's only decent points came during climate discussions were obviously well rehearsed statements. Neither of them were able to capitalize and actually present any semblance of a platform. Might as well have been a pudding wrestling contest. Had higher hopes that Wallace would have controlled responses better.
Apparently one of Trump's conditions for the debate was that Chris Wallace *not* be allowed / able to cut off mics.
Yeah, that's BS. Put them in separate rooms and make them answer individually if you have to. The shit show will continue. Normal people just want to see each answer questions uninterrupted.
That was horrible and embarrassing on both sides. Undecided before and have zero desire to vote for either of these train wrecks after watching. Biden's only decent points came during climate discussions were obviously well rehearsed statements. Neither of them were able to capitalize and actually present any semblance of a platform. Might as well have been a pudding wrestling contest. Had higher hopes that Wallace would have controlled responses better.
Those are called policy positions.
Part of the reason I hate the debates is that they have absolutely nothing to do with being president. This situation never comes up as president. The only thing it illuminates is some of the character of the candidates. But debates are a lot less useful for that than looking at how people have lived their lives. Though of course both candidates acted pretty much how they have lived their lives during tonight's debate.
The Proud Boys have adopted the slogan “Stand back, stand by.â€
That’s a scary thought going into an election where Trump May be ahead in some states and then fall behind days later as more mail in ballots are counted. It could get ugly and I hope our military is ready to uphold our institutions.
Im not sure how you want me to respond. I wasn't talking about the Proud Boys. Is this in response to my clarification of your interpretation of Trump’s reply?
No. It was just a general comment to the thread.
Gocha. I dont believe it will come to that. And hope Im not proven wrong in 5, 6, 7, 8? weeks.
Um, yea. Its just my belief, regardless of what headlines or twitter say. I also acknowledged I could be wrong and hope Im not. Its simply a belief about what might happen in the future. Why the pushback?
As bad as Biden is at debating I just have to hope the average American can see through Trump’s BS.
This debate isn’t going to change any minds.
90% have made up their minds, but that does leave 10% on the fence. I'll add that Joe doesn't seem to sleepy to me. You know when trump is lying whenever his lips are moving.
They both lie. I was fact checking both during the debates. Do the same.
I think the next moderator should be the guy from ESPN's Around the Horn. He can freeze frame the speaker and clip his mic. Or have them in a sound proof plexiglass box and clip the mic and watch the guys wave and stomp but not hear a word.
That was horrible and embarrassing on both sides. Undecided before and have zero desire to vote for either of these train wrecks after watching. Biden's only decent points came during climate discussions were obviously well rehearsed statements. Neither of them were able to capitalize and actually present any semblance of a platform. Might as well have been a pudding wrestling contest. Had higher hopes that Wallace would have controlled responses better.
Apparently one of Trump's conditions for the debate was that Chris Wallace *not* be allowed / able to cut off mics.
Would a mute button have helped trump though? Would he have come across better if he was not constantly interrupting?
The early polls say Biden won big. CNN has it at 60-28 for Biden. Most people didn’t watch. They’ll trust the headlines. The headlines will be, what?
Biden Won Trump failed to denounce white supremacy Trump was off his rocker
And there are no notable gaffs by Biden to further the narrative that he is senile.
By the time the dust settles, history records this as pivotal and terrible for Trump.
I'd like to see Biden use Trump's debate behavior political ads showing what kind of person he is. There probably aren't many undecided voters, but it could make a difference with some of them. Remind them weekly what kind of person Trump is.
As bad as Biden is at debating I just have to hope the average American can see through Trump’s BS.
This debate isn’t going to change any minds.
90% have made up their minds, but that does leave 10% on the fence. I'll add that Joe doesn't seem to sleepy to me. You know when trump is lying whenever his lips are moving.
They both lie. I was fact checking both during the debates. Do the same.
Stand by awaiting my marching orders. - Trump to proud Boys. How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Is that an option?
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Is that an option?
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Biden did act like an adult multiple times, for the first 30 minutes. trump had many chances to stop acting like a maniac.
Seriously, how fucking hard is it to say "I condemn white supremacists"
Literally, that's all he had to say to answer the question.
I used to think his critics went too far in reading into his reluctance to do so--I thought he was just too cowardly to risk losing a single supporter--but he's been rock solid consistent on this question. He pretends to not know any prominent white supremacists or supremacist organizations when pressed, then lies or sidesteps in his non-reply responses, and engages in whataboutism and false moral equivalency. Ask him twenty more times and you'll get the same kind of response.
Tonight he took it to a whole new level. He spoke directly to them and put them on stand by. He is their champion.
If only we had a middle ground candidate who could condemn both the widespread hate on both the right and left and actually put forth a decent platform with a unifying message and the ability to be electable in our current system. The childness on both sides is so disruptive to the potential good, its like picking the best of the two worst kickball players in kindergarten except this is supposed to be the best of American politics. If the world isn't laughing at us they surely are not laughing with us.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Is that an option?
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Your equivalencies are not equivalent.
But as I said earlier in the thread to one of your comrades. Your job cannot be easy. But you are standing your post. All around is collapsing in chaos and all seems lost. But you still are doing your best to stand strong. Good luck in your endeavors. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Is that an option?
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Biden did act like an adult multiple times, for the first 30 minutes. trump had many chances to stop acting like a maniac.
Stop saying they both played a part.
Wrong. Both acted like bumpkins continuously throughout. You're welcome to pick who acted like the least moronic amongst both, but from my perspective they both failed and by Biden not acting like an adult as he could have was a serious detriment to his performance. None of them won by any means.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Is that an option?
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Biden did act like an adult multiple times, for the first 30 minutes. trump had many chances to stop acting like a maniac.
Stop saying they both played a part.
Wrong. Both acted like bumpkins continuously throughout. You're welcome to pick who acted like the least moronic amongst both, but from my perspective they both failed and by Biden not acting like an adult as he could have was a serious detriment to his performance. None of them won by any means.
One of them attacked the other ones child when the other was talking about his dead son.
One refused to condemn white supremacists and instead encouraged them.
Seriously, stop it with this "both sides" bull shit.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Is that an option?
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Lets not pretend the actions by President Trump and former VP Biden were similar. At all.
Biden did his best and couldnt help but shut his mouth and shake his head when he was being steamrolled. He did break down and call Trump a clown twice, and to shut up. Those are not acceptable in a presidential debate IMO. That being said, it was nowhere near the disgrace from the other podium.
I cannot find the words to describe the manner in which the POTUS conducted himself tonight.
So while Biden did let his emotions get the best of him a few times, I wish he had taken a higher road and would loved to have seen him remove himself from the madness that was not fitting for this office.
Normally Im a “see both sides†kinda guy, and post as such. But I dont see Biden’s words or actions tonight as in any way contributing to the chaos that ensued. That was all Trump, baby.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Is that an option?
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Biden did act like an adult multiple times, for the first 30 minutes. trump had many chances to stop acting like a maniac.
Stop saying they both played a part.
I get that your mind was made up prior to the debate and I have no problem with that.
My point is from an undecided point of view I don't think either did anything to sway that vote and both basically just discredited themselves throughout the duration of the debate when either could have contributed much more. See previous posts for examples.
Wrong. Both acted like bumpkins continuously throughout. You're welcome to pick who acted like the least moronic amongst both, but from my perspective they both failed and by Biden not acting like an adult as he could have was a serious detriment to his performance. None of them won by any means.
One of them attacked the other ones child when the other was talking about his dead son.
One refused to condemn white supremacists and instead encouraged them.
Seriously, stop it with this "both sides" bull shit.
Biden didn't initiate or contribute to the chaos in any way. He lost his composure once or twice in a way that roughly 60% of Americans would, having been berated and bullied constantly. Trump is a clown, and he needed to shut the hell up, quit steamrolling and disrespecting his counterpart and moderator, and abide by the rules and therefore serve the country by debating ideas.
As we know, he is entirely incapable of that, and it only worsens with time and power and privilege. The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Is that an option?
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Biden did act like an adult multiple times, for the first 30 minutes. trump had many chances to stop acting like a maniac.
Stop saying they both played a part.
Wrong. Both acted like bumpkins continuously throughout. You're welcome to pick who acted like the least moronic amongst both, but from my perspective they both failed and by Biden not acting like an adult as he could have was a serious detriment to his performance. None of them won by any means.
Your missing the point.
I agree they both acted like “bumpkinsâ€. This statement is the same as me saying they both played a part in the chaos.
I meant that I thought Biden missed an opportunity to win points by being calm and in control and not say shut up. He missed an opportunity. He can control himself. Trump can’t.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Is that an option?
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Biden did act like an adult multiple times, for the first 30 minutes. trump had many chances to stop acting like a maniac.
Stop saying they both played a part.
Wrong. Both acted like bumpkins continuously throughout. You're welcome to pick who acted like the least moronic amongst both, but from my perspective they both failed and by Biden not acting like an adult as he could have was a serious detriment to his performance. None of them won by any means.
While I agree Biden’s poor choices detracted from his performance, I fail to see how he acted like a bumpkin continuously throughout. Unless I missed something, I didnt see Biden doing anything but struggle to get a word in edge wise save for a handful of weak moments in a 90 minute shitshow.
Biden has a bit of a history of losing his cool with the average Joe when they challenge him. Relative to Trump, yes, he's composed and polished, but it didn't surprise me to see him react that way at all. I'd hoped he wouldn't. That's Trump's game and no one wins but Trump when they step in that arena.
Trump needs to be shamed for that behavior and be shown to be exactly what he is by his opponent being the polar opposite, not challenged to a shit slinging match thereby normalizing it as fair combat. It's the only way to come out ahead. The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Biden didn't initiate or contribute to the chaos in any way. He lost his composure once or twice in a way that roughly 60% of Americans would, having been berated and bullied constantly. Trump is a clown, and he needed to shut the hell up, quit steamrolling and disrespecting his counterpart and moderator, and abide by the rules and therefore serve the country by debating ideas.
As we know, he is entirely incapable of that, and it only worsens with time and power and privilege.
Agree 100%.
Dude, why are you still posting with us? Shouldn't you be celebrating your engagement with endless sex and tropical fruits for at least a week?
Biden has a bit of a history of losing his cool with the average Joe when they challenge him. Relative to Trump, yes, he's composed and polished, but it didn't surprise me to see him react that way at all. I'd hoped he wouldn't. That's Trump's game and no one wins but Trump when they step in that arena.
Trump needs to be shamed for that behavior and be shown to be exactly what he is by his opponent being the polar opposite, not challenged to a shit slinging match thereby normalizing it as fair combat. It's the only way to come out ahead.
Your comments appear that you are pro- Biden, which is fine. It’s important everyone accept others points of views. I feel like your trying to make some point with me that isn’t necessary. If the point of the debate is about winning.... all Biden had to do was not lose his patience. Trump can’t. It’s his obvious weakness. If Biden could get up on stage, not mumble and look like he rolled out of his basement, reading off of a teleprompter, and not lose his train of thought as the Republicans suggest, he wins. Biden doesn’t need to do much of anything. He just needs to look mentally competent and stay in control and let Trump be a bully.
He had it in the bag if he just didn’t call Trump a clown several times and tell him to shut up.
Realize I made zero comments about Trump doing anything right. I’m not supporting anything he did. I’m suggesting a debate is about winning and Biden could have easily had this one in the bag. Lost opportunity.
I’ve read some articles recently about how typically-democrat blue collar voters turned out for Trump in 2016 because they appreciated the ‘tough guy’ act. Similarly, recently various rallies in blue collar locations when Biden has ‘gaffed’ and told someone to shut up it’s actually worked to his advantage in how he polls in those locations afterwards because he’s seen as being tough and someone who doesn’t take crap from other people. If that’s true, then Biden’s few below-the-belt remarks may have actually won him a few voters in key states without necessarily turning folks away from him because we were all thinking the same thing anyway.
I’ve read some articles recently about how typically-democrat blue collar voters turned out for Trump in 2016 because they appreciated the ‘tough guy’ act. Similarly, recently various rallies in blue collar locations when Biden has ‘gaffed’ and told someone to shut up it’s actually worked to his advantage in how he polls in those locations afterwards because he’s seen as being tough and someone who doesn’t take crap from other people. If that’s true, then Biden’s few below-the-belt remarks may have actually won him a few voters in key states without necessarily turning folks away from him because we were all thinking the same thing anyway.
Interesting point. Thanks for sharing. It makes me wonder what the advisors told Biden before the debate.
I feel like your trying to make some point with me that isn’t necessary.
No, we largely agree. I was just noting that Joe has a history of those kinds of interactions, so it wasn't really far out of character. Joe could've done better in just about every aspect of the debate; had he been up against any of the field Trump beat out in 2016, he'd be a fly on the wall, but you're right, with Trump, just let him dig his own grave and stay out of the way, don't make news. The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
I’ve read some articles recently about how typically-democrat blue collar voters turned out for Trump in 2016 because they appreciated the ‘tough guy’ act. Similarly, recently various rallies in blue collar locations when Biden has ‘gaffed’ and told someone to shut up it’s actually worked to his advantage in how he polls in those locations afterwards because he’s seen as being tough and someone who doesn’t take crap from other people. If that’s true, then Biden’s few below-the-belt remarks may have actually won him a few voters in key states without necessarily turning folks away from him because we were all thinking the same thing anyway.
Interesting point. Thanks for sharing. It makes me wonder what the advisors told Biden before the debate.
I can see that. There is probably not a small subset of people that think politicians are fake all the time, and saying things like that make them be more real or how ever you want to describe it. Hell isn’t that the comment a lot of Trump voters have said, “he tells it like it is†or similar?
Wrong. Both acted like bumpkins continuously throughout. You're welcome to pick who acted like the least moronic amongst both, but from my perspective they both failed and by Biden not acting like an adult as he could have was a serious detriment to his performance. None of them won by any means.
Trump attacked Biden's son, and showed his support for white supremicists, continually interrupted with meaningless personal attacks and you think they were equally bad?
I watched the entire shit show and agree no one was great but to draw an equivalence on their behaviour is just complete BS.
Joe told bonespurs to shut up. Something the dumarses supporting trump could understand. If he said please Chris enforce the rules, the supposed macho types would have branded him a wuss.
All bonespurs did was try to undermine our democracy.
Not gonna lie I thought Trump made some sense on his climate change message. CA forest management and car regulations/cost of vehicles.
Trump's idea of CA forest management is absolute bullshit.
https://weatherwest.com/archives/7550
Did you read your article?
Both of these influences—the expansion of communities into the wildlands and historical fire suppression increasing forest fuel loads—have clearly increased the risk of large and destructive California wildfires. But these two important factors, on their own, don’t tell the whole story.
I'm not saying that forest management is the whole story, clearly climate change has played a role. But they're both equations to the whole picture and if you have thousands of acres of unmanaged land and little to no access through fire roads then you're setting things up to be a tinderbox.
Wrong. Both acted like bumpkins continuously throughout. You're welcome to pick who acted like the least moronic amongst both, but from my perspective they both failed and by Biden not acting like an adult as he could have was a serious detriment to his performance. None of them won by any means.
Trump attacked Biden's son, and showed his support for white supremicists, continually interrupted with meaningless personal attacks and you think they were equally bad?
I watched the entire shit show and agree no one was great but to draw an equivalence on their behaviour is just complete BS.
As president, if asked directly to condemn white supremacy and you can’t do it, you ARE a white supremacist. I’m not a single issue voter but to me this is a dealbreaker. But I think at this point, for those that support Trump, it does not matter, there is no line left to cross that will sway their support.
As president, if asked directly to condemn white supremacy and you can’t do it, you ARE a white supremacist. I’m not a single issue voter but to me this is a dealbreaker. But I think at this point, for those that support Trump, it does not matter, there is no line left to cross that will sway their support.
This.
It's despicable. And anyone who supports Trump at this point is lumped into the "racist" bucket as far as I'm concerned. I have ZERO respect for you.
Hillary pretty much had him pegged years earlier, with her comments in their debate about him paying no taxes, not revealing them because he'd be exposed as the financial fraudster he is, the "basket of deplorables" etc.
There's no place left to hide now. If you tolerate these naked comments and gestures, on top of the mountain of deplorable comments and gestures, from an American President, and you put your own personal self interest above the consequences of another four years of uninhibited Donald Trump when you step in the voting booth, you've earned your place in that basket. Deplorable. The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
I felt Biden did okay but not as sharp as he should have been. I was thinking that if Buttigieg, Harris or Klobuchar had been there, they would have been more effective.
Biden’s strength is his decency, which stands out because of Trump’s lack of character, but I think the Dems missed a chance by not having a someone like Mayor Pete.
There's no place left to hide now. If you tolerate these naked comments and gestures, on top of the mountain of deplorable comments and gestures, from an American President, and you put your own personal self interest above the consequences of another four years of uninhibited Donald Trump when you step in the voting booth, you've earned your place in that basket. Deplorable.
If nothing else, this election will give us a headcount on white supremacists and white supremacy enablers.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Is that an option?
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Biden is getting great reviews for saying what every viewer wanted to say, which was, “shut up.â€
That retort won’t cost him a vote and will likely gain him some. Getting bulldozed more and begging for the moderator’s help wasn’t going to convince anyone that he’s ready for the rigor of the job.
Anyone could beat Trump in this election. It would be nice if the DNC would let the people choose their candidate. Mayor Pete would have been a much better choice in so many areas and there would be a very clear distinction. I was hopeful the country as a whole had evolved and become more accepting of LGBT, but the DNC sure blew that notion.
I think Joe will hire many Of those folks to work for the American people. Probably some former Repubs too. Trump bought certain sectors in furtherance of trump.
Anyone could beat Trump in this election. It would be nice if the DNC would let the people choose their candidate. Mayor Pete would have been a much better choice in so many areas and there would be a very clear distinction. I was hopeful the country as a whole had evolved and become more accepting of LGBT, but the DNC sure blew that notion.
I don’t think that’s fair at all.
The DNC didn’t show that we aren’t ready for an LGBT nominee. We showed that we wanted a seasoned veteran, safe choice, moderate and not someone whose best qualification is that he was mayor of a mid-sized town in Indiana.
I love Pete. Love a great orator, and a thoughtful, inspiring person. I live that he’s a veteran. But I wasn’t rolling the dice against Trump with the mayor of South Bend.
If he had been elected to serve as governor, or as a senator, or even a congressman (maybe), but a mayor?
Anyone could beat Trump in this election. It would be nice if the DNC would let the people choose their candidate. Mayor Pete would have been a much better choice in so many areas and there would be a very clear distinction. I was hopeful the country as a whole had evolved and become more accepting of LGBT, but the DNC sure blew that notion.
You're nuts. A full 40% of the United States still thinks he is doing a good job and it's over 90% in the Republican party. If you lose anybody because you're putting a Socialist or gay man on the ticket, you've lost.
I liked Mayor Pete but he was gone by my primary and I agree with the second part of your take. _____ TEAM HD Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
As president, if asked directly to condemn white supremacy and you can’t do it, you ARE a white supremacist. I’m not a single issue voter but to me this is a dealbreaker. But I think at this point, for those that support Trump, it does not matter, there is no line left to cross that will sway their support.
This.
It's despicable. And anyone who supports Trump at this point is lumped into the "racist" bucket as far as I'm concerned. I have ZERO respect for you.
Well, that's a good way to completely shut down any sort of debate with anyone except your 'tribe'. If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun. "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020
I was interrupted during Trump's call to address white supremacists. Did he say "stand by..." and then start talking about ANTIFA?
Why yes, yes he did
I would really like to know what Trump thinks ANTIFA means? Has anyone explained it to him? Or that it's not some shadow terrorist organization like ISIS or KKK, just a concept of "Anti-Fascism?"
Ok, maybe I don't want to know after all "What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy "Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
I was hopeful the country as a whole had evolved and become more accepting of LGBT,
You completely lost me there. A slim majority just accepted that blatant discimination was bad a few years ago, and it only happened because such a position became a politically losing strategy. Pete is great (as are many of the candidates, but this country has not evolved enough at this time.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
Is that an option?
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Lets not pretend the actions by President Trump and former VP Biden were similar. At all.
Biden did his best and couldnt help but shut his mouth and shake his head when he was being steamrolled. He did break down and call Trump a clown twice, and to shut up. Those are not acceptable in a presidential debate IMO. That being said, it was nowhere near the disgrace from the other podium.
I cannot find the words to describe the manner in which the POTUS conducted himself tonight.
So while Biden did let his emotions get the best of him a few times, I wish he had taken a higher road and would loved to have seen him remove himself from the madness that was not fitting for this office.
Normally Im a “see both sides†kinda guy, and post as such. But I dont see Biden’s words or actions tonight as in any way contributing to the chaos that ensued. That was all Trump, baby.
Trump said “Bad things happen in Philadelphia.†That probably loses PA.
I doubt it. People in PGH would agree with him on the Philly part
"Pennsylvania is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between." - James Carville
Here are a couple of "bad things" that happened in Philadelphia: The Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution
Probably not enough to outweigh throwing snowballs at Santa, the Mummers Parade, or other nonsense, but still "What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy "Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Why do you hold them to different standards? How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
As president, if asked directly to condemn white supremacy and you can’t do it, you ARE a white supremacist. I’m not a single issue voter but to me this is a dealbreaker. But I think at this point, for those that support Trump, it does not matter, there is no line left to cross that will sway their support.
This.
It's despicable. And anyone who supports Trump at this point is lumped into the "racist" bucket as far as I'm concerned. I have ZERO respect for you.
I would modify that slightly with a sign I saw at a protest recently:
"Supporting Trump doesn't mean you're a racist, but it does mean you're okay with his racism."
I didn't believe Trump was a racist for a long time. I thought he was using racist language to fire up portions of his base. But when he said his "send them back to where they came from" comment, I had to concede that it was glimpse into how he sees the world with racist-tinted lenses. I've no doubt anymore that he's one of those "racist lite" people who think they're not racist because they don't want to hang certain people from trees, not realizing that racism is far, far more complex and pervasive than such a ridiculously narrow definition allows.
The fact that he essentially turned an opportunity to denounce white supremacy into a rallying call to white supremacy shows who he is. You don't have to be a racist to support him, but you've got to rationalize his racism to do it.
Anyone could beat Trump in this election. It would be nice if the DNC would let the people choose their candidate. Mayor Pete would have been a much better choice in so many areas and there would be a very clear distinction. I was hopeful the country as a whole had evolved and become more accepting of LGBT, but the DNC sure blew that notion.
baby steps. a not insignificant part of the country still wants to sit at 1950's deli counters. LGBT was still being shunned when I was in HS 25 years ago. Evolution takes time.
appreciate the recap everyone. not like I was going out on the a limb, but my refusal to watch what I said was going to be a dumpster fire saved me 90 minutes of my life. At this point if you think anything involving Trump could have turned out better than last night, I have to assume you've gone bat shit crazy. I watched Midsommar instead and it had me longing for some rituals of a rural Swedish festival to find its way into US politics.
Trump said “Bad things happen in Philadelphia.†That probably loses PA.
I doubt it. People in PGH would agree with him on the Philly part
"Pennsylvania is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between." - James Carville
Here are a couple of "bad things" that happened in Philadelphia: The Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution
Probably not enough to outweigh throwing snowballs at Santa, the Mummers Parade, or other nonsense, but still
Well. now we know what he thinks of his UPENN degree. Bad thing
The illiterate dipshit probably misread "Wharton" as "Whore-Tan" "What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy "Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
Trump said “Bad things happen in Philadelphia.†That probably loses PA.
I doubt it. People in PGH would agree with him on the Philly part
"Pennsylvania is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between." - James Carville
Here are a couple of "bad things" that happened in Philadelphia: The Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution
Probably not enough to outweigh throwing snowballs at Santa, the Mummers Parade, or other nonsense, but still
I live north of Pittsburgh and this is exactly true. Last nights debate changed nobody's mind in my ultra conservative area. In fact, most of the people were complaining about Biden's tie and that Wallace was favoring Biden to make Trump look bad.
I'm not making this shit up. _____ TEAM HD Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
No you cannot beat Trump with anyone. Bernie probably couldn't win and some other folks way on the left would not win either. AOC probably wouldn't win. They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Why do you hold them to different standards?
There are a couple possible reasons.
First, some people think that staying in the middle is the enlightened thing to do. They feel it makes them feel superior or smarter. Sure it may be the correct choice in some circumstances, but really dumb in this circumstance. These are people if the Democrats said the Sun rises in the east and Republicans said it rises in the West, would say, "Maybe it rises in the North or South, both sides are equally wrong."
Second, they just like trump.
But yes it is dumb to say that the person constantly interrupting and the one who did not always take the interrupting exactly as some people wanted are equally to blame. Just like the person punching people in the face is just as bad as the person that screams "stop punching people in face asshole."
So I'll preface this by saying I didn't watch the debate. However, based on the various reactions, my question is this.
Is the smart move for VP Biden to issue make a statement to the effect of:
"I first want to apologize to the American people for what they were subjected to last night. You deserve better from the two men who are asking for your vote in a campaign for the Presidency of the United States. Although both campaigns agreed to a set of rules for the debates, and I went into last night hoping (perhaps naively) that the President and I could work within those rules to provide the voters with another opportunity to distinguish between our policies and basic philosophies for the office, unfortunately, it was clear that no such debate can be held with President Trump. I will not waste the time of the American voters by participating in any further reality television nonsense that solely serves to patronize this President's need to throw public tantrums and spread fabricated lies. There will be no additional Presidential debates. Instead, I will spend the time and effort that I would have spent preparing for the next two events focusing on communicating my platform to the people. I am announcing two additional "town hall" style events during which I will be more than happy to take questions, explain my policies, and make my case to the American public. These town hall events will take the place of any further debates.
I believe that last night's embarrassing spectacle clearly illustrated the stark contrast between the two candidates for this high office, but if you are still undecided or uncertain about who should get your vote, I look forward to continuing to try to answer your questions and convince every voter, left, right, and center, in the coming weeks." Slowguy
That's essentially the position I laid out in another thread. He has nothing to gain by debating twice more, whatsoever. The only way he should agree to continue is if the no-cut-mic rule is rescinded, which is entirely appropriate since Trump violated the no-interruptions rule that would warrant a cut mic, every single time Joe tried to answer a question. If he continues with no changes, knowing Trump will do *exactly* the same thing again, he's putting himself at an unnecessary disadvantage.
Unless he can find the right footing and let Trump dig his own grave without hopping it into it with him. The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
So I'll preface this by saying I didn't watch the debate. However, based on the various reactions, my question is this.
Is the smart move for VP Biden to issue make a statement to the effect of:
"I first want to apologize to the American people for what they were subjected to last night. You deserve better from the two men who are asking for your vote in a campaign for the Presidency of the United States. Although both campaigns agreed to a set of rules for the debates, and I went into last night hoping (perhaps naively) that the President and I could work within those rules to provide the voters with another opportunity to distinguish between our policies and basic philosophies for the office, unfortunately, it was clear that no such debate can be held with President Trump. I will not waste the time of the American voters by participating in any further reality television nonsense that solely serves to patronize this President's need to throw public tantrums and spread fabricated lies. There will be no additional Presidential debates. Instead, I will spend the time and effort that I would have spent preparing for the next two events focusing on communicating my platform to the people. I am announcing two additional "town hall" style events during which I will be more than happy to take questions, explain my policies, and make my case to the American public. These town hall events will take the place of any further debates.
I believe that last night's embarrassing spectacle clearly illustrated the stark contrast between the two candidates for this high office, but if you are still undecided or uncertain about who should get your vote, I look forward to continuing to try to answer your questions and convince every voter, left, right, and center, in the coming weeks."
I came to the exact same conclusion about an apology. You know damn well trump will never go that route. Offense was delivered by both and forgiveness needs to be asked for.
That's essentially the position I laid out in another thread. He has nothing to gain by debating twice more, whatsoever. The only way he should agree to continue is if the no-cut-mic rule is rescinded, which is entirely appropriate since Trump violated the no-interruptions rule that would warrant a cut mic, every single time Joe tried to answer a question. If he continues with no changes, knowing Trump will do *exactly* the same thing again, he's putting himself at an unnecessary disadvantage.
Unless he can find the right footing and let Trump dig his own grave without hopping it into it with him.
The no-cut-mic rule won't be rescinded. Trump's team won't agree to it, and both sides need to agree on any changes to the rules. Swimming Workout of the Day:
So that would be an admission that believes he's exempt from the rules he imposes. It's not surprising, but that's what it amounts to.
If I were on Team Joe, I'd insist on the mic rule and point to Trump's flagrant violation of the interruption rule, and cite it as the only way to counter his rule violation. If Team Trump refuses, then this debate is what voters remember through election day.
EVERYONE who saw the debate, save for the Trump cultists, realize how off the rails he was. Trump needs a second debate far more than does Biden. He should use that leverage. The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
This doesn't change anyone's mind. Unless they were waiting to see if Biden would come out drooling, and he ahsn't.
The debates have outlived their usefulness. Long form interviews with each getting the same questions would be better.
Or maybe we go game show and put them each in soundproof booths so they can't see each other or hear each other. Or maybe put them both in sound proof booths so we can't hear either one.
I absolutely agree with you. It's pure theater...I was just hoping for better performances from our lead actors. Shit..even the audio guy was shitting the bed. Lighting seemed spot on for what it's worth though.
Would love to see long form interviews with each of them but it's really not a good idea for either one of these dummies to roll those dice.
Would anyone mind if Joe Biden just up and said “Thank you for this opportunity, but Im not going to continue to be part of this disgusting display anymore. I refuse to participate in an event that will lower the bar for the office of POTUS.â€
Right now Id be far more impressed if Biden just said fuck it Im out.
Would that play well? Sure some news would eat him up, but I dont think this is changing any votes, or deciding any either.
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Why do you hold them to different standards?
They are held to the standards expected as President of the United States of America. Sadly, neither meet those standards.
My comments were about winning the debate. I think Biden missed an opportunity. He could have acted like an honorable man and made Trump look like the fool everyone knows he is. Joe didn’t stand up to my expectations, so now they are both in the camp of unworthy ness of the position.
So, that’s our choices. I choose the guy who has gotten things done. Not the guy in politics for years without a plan, but people around him waiting to whisper in his ear. No thanks. That doesn’t mean I love Trump or am a Trump supporter. FYI.
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Why do you hold them to different standards?
They are held to the standards expected as President of the United States of America. Sadly, neither meet those standards.
My comments were about winning the debate. I think Biden missed an opportunity. He could have acted like an honorable man and made Trump look like the fool everyone knows he is. Joe didn’t stand up to my expectations, so now they are both in the camp of unworthy ness of the position.
So, that’s our choices. I choose the guy who has gotten things done. Not the guy in politics for years without a plan, but people around him waiting to whisper in his ear. No thanks. That doesn’t mean I love Trump or am a Trump supporter. FYI.
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.â€
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Why do you hold them to different standards?
They are held to the standards expected as President of the United States of America. Sadly, neither meet those standards.
My comments were about winning the debate. I think Biden missed an opportunity. He could have acted like an honorable man and made Trump look like the fool everyone knows he is. Joe didn’t stand up to my expectations, so now they are both in the camp of unworthy ness of the position.
So, that’s our choices. I choose the guy who has gotten things done. Not the guy in politics for years without a plan, but people around him waiting to whisper in his ear. No thanks. That doesn’t mean I love Trump or am a Trump supporter. FYI.
You are literally supporting President Trump.
You don't understand. He isn't supporting trump. He is supporting Trump. See the difference? I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
BREAKING NEWS The Commission on Presidential Debates said it would change its format for future debates after President Trump repeatedly interrupted Joe Biden.
mainly on China PMIs and hopes for a stimulus package. they were falling after the debate on fears of a protracted post-election legal fight.
Not much. To whatever extent stocks care at all, the worst outcome would be a too-close-to-call result. Biden "not losing" last night reduces that likelihood. The market has priced in a likely Biden victory, and hates uncertainty. Odds on stimulus package will move the markets near-term. If Biden stumbles or polls tighten a bit, the market will most likely drop.
mainly on China PMIs and hopes for a stimulus package. they were falling after the debate on fears of a protracted post-election legal fight.
Eyeroll emoji
not sure why that warrants an eyeroll.
S&P futures were down over 1% at 2am NY time, and Asia stocks opened lower too. The talk on the street was that it was a result of Trump's threats of not leaving quietly (or however you want to characterize it - contested election). But by this morning's open they had recovered their overnight losses in the wake of solid China PMIs and reports that Mnuchin and Pelosi were talking stimulus.
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Why do you hold them to different standards?
They are held to the standards expected as President of the United States of America. Sadly, neither meet those standards.
My comments were about winning the debate. I think Biden missed an opportunity. He could have acted like an honorable man and made Trump look like the fool everyone knows he is. Joe didn’t stand up to my expectations, so now they are both in the camp of unworthy ness of the position.
So, that’s our choices. I choose the guy who has gotten things done. Not the guy in politics for years without a plan, but people around him waiting to whisper in his ear. No thanks. That doesn’t mean I love Trump or am a Trump supporter. FYI.
Summon your ethics. You watched an abusive person obstruct the debate process by using insults, interruptions and lies. Who were the real losers? Americans. That debate was for YOU to hear Biden’s and Trump’s ideas. Trump broke the rules repeatedly to disrupt and rattle Biden so Biden couldn’t speak. Trump disrespected you.
Do you know abusers do the next day? They tell you that you’re crazy. They tell you it’s your fault. They lie about what they did. They will deny what you saw. They promise you it will get better. Watch what Trump tweets.
When you vote for Trump, you are VOTING FOR TRUMP. You are voting in favor of the abuser.
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Why do you hold them to different standards?
They are held to the standards expected as President of the United States of America. Sadly, neither meet those standards.
My comments were about winning the debate. I think Biden missed an opportunity. He could have acted like an honorable man and made Trump look like the fool everyone knows he is. Joe didn’t stand up to my expectations, so now they are both in the camp of unworthy ness of the position.
So, that’s our choices. I choose the guy who has gotten things done. Not the guy in politics for years without a plan, but people around him waiting to whisper in his ear. No thanks. That doesn’t mean I love Trump or am a Trump supporter. FYI.
Summon your ethics. You watched an abusive person obstruct the debate process by using insults, interruptions and lies. Who were the real losers? Americans. That debate was for YOU to hear Biden’s and Trump’s ideas. Trump broke the rules repeatedly to disrupt and rattle Biden so Biden couldn’t speak. Trump disrespected you.
Do you know abusers do the next day? They tell you that you’re crazy. They tell you it’s your fault. They lie about what they did. They will deny what you saw. They promise you it will get better. Watch what Trump tweets.
When you vote for Trump, you are VOTING FOR TRUMP. You are voting in favor of the abuser.
Speaking of abusers, how many credible rape and/or sexual assault allegations are there against Trump now? 26 or so?
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Why do you hold them to different standards?
They are held to the standards expected as President of the United States of America. Sadly, neither meet those standards.
My comments were about winning the debate. I think Biden missed an opportunity. He could have acted like an honorable man and made Trump look like the fool everyone knows he is. Joe didn’t stand up to my expectations, so now they are both in the camp of unworthy ness of the position.
So, that’s our choices. I choose the guy who has gotten things done. Not the guy in politics for years without a plan, but people around him waiting to whisper in his ear. No thanks. That doesn’t mean I love Trump or am a Trump supporter. FYI.
Summon your ethics. You watched an abusive person obstruct the debate process by using insults, interruptions and lies. Who were the real losers? Americans. That debate was for YOU to hear Biden’s and Trump’s ideas. Trump broke the rules repeatedly to disrupt and rattle Biden so Biden couldn’t speak. Trump disrespected you.
Do you know abusers do the next day? They tell you that you’re crazy. They tell you it’s your fault. They lie about what they did. They will deny what you saw. They promise you it will get better. Watch what Trump tweets.
When you vote for Trump, you are VOTING FOR TRUMP. You are voting in favor of the abuser.
Speaking of abusers, how many credible rape and/or sexual assault allegations are there against Trump now? 26 or so?
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Why do you hold them to different standards?
They are held to the standards expected as President of the United States of America. Sadly, neither meet those standards.
My comments were about winning the debate. I think Biden missed an opportunity. He could have acted like an honorable man and made Trump look like the fool everyone knows he is. Joe didn’t stand up to my expectations, so now they are both in the camp of unworthy ness of the position.
So, that’s our choices. I choose the guy who has gotten things done. Not the guy in politics for years without a plan, but people around him waiting to whisper in his ear. No thanks. That doesn’t mean I love Trump or am a Trump supporter. FYI.
Summon your ethics. You watched an abusive person obstruct the debate process by using insults, interruptions and lies. Who were the real losers? Americans. That debate was for YOU to hear Biden’s and Trump’s ideas. Trump broke the rules repeatedly to disrupt and rattle Biden so Biden couldn’t speak. Trump disrespected you.
Do you know abusers do the next day? They tell you that you’re crazy. They tell you it’s your fault. They lie about what they did. They will deny what you saw. They promise you it will get better. Watch what Trump tweets.
When you vote for Trump, you are VOTING FOR TRUMP. You are voting in favor of the abuser.
If that’s how you want to look at it.
No point to have a discussion of why I am voting for Trump when clearly your mind is made up that everyone voting for Trump is a jerk and not your friend, like Trump.
I was amazed to see in your other post that your husband is planning to vote for Trump. I didn’t expect you to give anyone voting for Trump a chance.
This thread is all to common, by the way. Democrat starts Thread to ask someone who is voting Trump of their opinions. Only to bash them. If you really wanted to hear anything, you would continue asking questions and stop judging.
I accept people’s views if they are Democrat and/ or voting Biden.
Same thing I see on Facebook.
There is a reason why people voting Trump are silent. Nobody wants to share because they simply get bashed. I’m thick skinned enough that I share my views, but I do wonder why. Why take the 5 min to type this when I can just go back to work? I will gladly spend the time on real conversation, otherwise, this is unproductive as the debate.
This thread is all to common, by the way. Democrat starts Thread to ask someone who is voting Trump of their opinions. Only to bash them. If you really wanted to hear anything, you would continue asking questions and stop judging.
I accept people’s views if they are Democrat and/ or voting Biden.
Same thing I see on Facebook.
There is a reason why people voting Trump are silent. Nobody wants to share because they simply get bashed. I’m thick skinned enough that I share my views, but I do wonder why. Why take the 5 min to type this when I can just go back to work? I will gladly spend the time on real conversation, otherwise, this is unproductive as the debate.
Anyone who will vote for Trump is either a white supremacist or an enabler of white supremacy.
They might be a lot of other things and have a host of other views, but they are in one of those two pots and there’s no way around it.
Well to be fair, at least in this thread I think the only comment you made in favor of Trump as a choice for President is, "choose the guy who has gotten things done. Not the guy in politics for years without a plan." And then you went on to say that a drawback of Biden is that he considers others' counsel (which you pejoratively referred to as "whispering in his ear.")
That's fairly thin and vague given the very specific drawbacks to Trump.
I think that the drip, drip, drip of constant madness coming from the occupant of the White House has inured many of his supporters, but if you were suddenly presented with everything he's done over the last 4 years, surely you would run a mile.
When Trump stood behind Rob Porter even after photos of his battered ex wife were released, normal people were aghast. But most Trump supporters managed, somehow, to brush it off. Maybe they avoided news sources they knew would paint him in a poor light. And this process has been repeated so many times, but I think his base have managed to find a way to keep explaining it all away somehow.
And there is so much to shake your head at. So I think people don't understand how, given EVERYTHING (and there is just so much utter crap from Russia collusion (yes, there was), to Ukraine/impeachment, to the COVID response, to the racial divisions and everything in between...), any sane, rational, intelligent, objective person could still vote for him as our president.
Well to be fair, at least in this thread I think the only comment you made in favor of Trump as a choice for President is, "choose the guy who has gotten things done. Not the guy in politics for years without a plan." And then you went on to say that a drawback of Biden is that he considers others' counsel (which you pejoratively referred to as "whispering in his ear.")
That's fairly thin and vague given the very specific drawbacks to Trump.
I do my own research. I don’t watch Facebook videos or start with a google search and go down the rabbit hole. If you do that, you only are given articles and videos that are one sided. If you watch a Trump video and skip a Biden video, you start only getting Trump videos in your queue. And vice versa.
Do your own google searches. Clear your cookies and history and do it again.
Start with “Trumps accomplishments†and “Biden’s accomplishmentsâ€.
As they say, give a man a fish... or teach them to fish.
Why tell you why I’m voting Trump when I can tell you what I did to decide I’m voting Trump.
Let me end with Trump’s an asshole. He still gets my vote. I’m not voting for another guy who I feel isn’t qualified for the job and he will be the puppet of Congress. Besides him being too old that I find it doubtful he will serve 2 terms. Not enough time to get anything done.
If Trump paid $750 in taxes, he will get audited and the IRS can sort it out. Half of the crap people hate him for will have its checks and balances. It’s not relevant to my vote. If he broke the law, he will have his day in court as everyone does.
Ppl who support trump won’t speak out so readily on this forum because this forum is probably more center / left leaning and we (not only the right wing nutters do this) are in our own echo chamber.
Any American citizen IMO should be very worried after this debate ... it did basically nothing for Biden (in fact he’ll be forgotten very quickly) but acted as a platform for Trump to continue to spread his lies and call up the Proud Boys - who are known to be very violent and atm no doubt - getting a surge in recruits.
You factor in everything talked about from the Social Dilemma (pls watch this NOW if you have Netflix) and you can see what will happen come Nov. Cuz those engineers who built AI in social media didn’t create it (the AI) to understand the difference btwn right and wrong - only what can bring in more clicks and advertising revenue. Controversy = more clicks = $$$
The best thing for Biden to do is not to agree to any more debates until 1. There’s an independent moderator (FOX is not!) and 2. The moderator has the ability to turn off the mic when someone isn’t following the rules.
As bad as Biden is at debating I just have to hope the average American can see through Trump’s BS.
This debate isn’t going to change any minds.
90% have made up their minds, but that does leave 10% on the fence. I'll add that Joe doesn't seem to sleepy to me. You know when trump is lying whenever his lips are moving.
They both lie. I was fact checking both during the debates. Do the same.
Stand by awaiting my marching orders. - Trump to proud Boys.
Trump ("I have one of the great memories of all-time") said today, ""I don't know who Proud Boys are but whoever they are -- they have to stand down." Same excuse he used 4 years ago with David Duke (not to mention numerous others who have accused him of various crimes.)
No point to have a discussion of why I am voting for Trump when clearly your mind is made up that everyone voting for Trump is a jerk and not your friend, like Trump.
I was amazed to see in your other post that your husband is planning to vote for Trump. I didn’t expect you to give anyone voting for Trump a chance.
My husband presents many challenges. He has cancer right now. He’s vulnerable despite his moronic views. This cancer might save our marriage.
Trump ("I have one of the great memories of all-time") said today, ""I don't know who Proud Boys are but whoever they are -- they have to stand down." Same excuse he used 4 years ago with David Duke (not to mention numerous others who have accused him of various crimes.)
I guess we are all wrong. Trump said he "won" the debate according to every poll he saw, at least 6 of them.
Any list I find about "Trumps accomplishments" has been debunked and discredited 6 ways from Sunday.
When you say "he gets things done" you completely ignore the fact that he doesn't really do anything. He watches TV. He plays golf. But he doesn't do his job. He doesn't read reports. He doesn't act on intelligence. He does nothing.
The fact that anything has gotten done is a credit to the people working around him and in spite of him.
Now if you want to talk about what he hasn't accomplished that could be fun.
Considering that he had the House and the Senate for two full years it's amazing what he didn't accomplish. How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
This thread is all to common, by the way. Democrat starts Thread to ask someone who is voting Trump of their opinions. Only to bash them. If you really wanted to hear anything, you would continue asking questions and stop judging.
They get bashed when they either
1) list a few things, most of which aren't actually true, or 2) copy/paste the ridiculous meme list of things that Trump didn't actually do (most just happened)
The Trump supporter here (or on Facebook, in my experience) isn't an honest broker. For instance, atl_tony said he hadn't decided because of their stands on abortion, and he wanted to "research" more. A number of people provided information on their policy positions, but of course he never responded. I even followed up to see how his research was going. Amstel gives a bunch of things as his reasons, but when people call out the actions that Trump has in reality taken, he doesn't respond.
You'll be just like them. Prove me wrong by actually engaging in a discussion of why you support Trump. Own it when you think his tax cut, which massively increased the debt to the benefit of corporations and the wealthy, was a good thing. Be prepared to defend your view on supply-side economics. Defend his response to the pandemic. ---------------------------------- "Go yell at an M&M"
Any list I find about "Trumps accomplishments" has been debunked and discredited 6 ways from Sunday.
Let me guess, Occupy Democrats?
Do some more research. He actually is the first president to accomplish most of what he said he would before he took Presidency as well.
As far as people around him getting things done, who cares? That’s delegation. Things are getting done. Do we expect our government to only be the President? I could care less if he sat on a beach and did zoom meetings all day as long as things were getting done. I am self employed and last week I took the day off and went to Road America to drive my car on the race track. My employees were at work.
Any list I find about "Trumps accomplishments" has been debunked and discredited 6 ways from Sunday.
Let me guess, Occupy Democrats?
Do some more research. He actually is the first president to accomplish most of what he said he would before he took Presidency as well.
As far as people around him getting things done, who cares? That’s delegation. Things are getting done. Do we expect our government to only be the President? I could care less if he sat on a beach and did zoom meetings all day as long as things were getting done. I am self employed and last week I took the day off and went to Road America to drive my car on the race track. My employees were at work.
He has largely corrected his wicked slice off the tee, so yes things are getting done.
This thread is all to common, by the way. Democrat starts Thread to ask someone who is voting Trump of their opinions. Only to bash them. If you really wanted to hear anything, you would continue asking questions and stop judging.
They get bashed when they either
1) list a few things, most of which aren't actually true, or 2) copy/paste the ridiculous meme list of things that Trump didn't actually do (most just happened)
The Trump supporter here (or on Facebook, in my experience) isn't an honest broker. For instance, atl_tony said he hadn't decided because of their stands on abortion, and he wanted to "research" more. A number of people provided information on their policy positions, but of course he never responded. I even followed up to see how his research was going. Amstel gives a bunch of things as his reasons, but when people call out the actions that Trump has in reality taken, he doesn't respond.
You'll be just like them. Prove me wrong by actually engaging in a discussion of why you support Trump. Own it when you think his tax cut, which massively increased the debt to the benefit of corporations and the wealthy, was a good thing. Be prepared to defend your view on supply-side economics. Defend his response to the pandemic.
You can’t be serious.
As if the Democratic Party hasn’t done the same stupid stuff. How many memes of Trump with a Clorox bottle or other dumb crap floats around.
I ignore it on both sides. I also hate negative campaigning. When they were both given open air to talk about anything, they both just talked about how bad the other is. Ridiculous. I ignore that stuff as well.
I was waiting for Biden to sway me. Tell me your plan. I don’t buy into false hopes of bettering Obamacare. I do believe Trump will go after big Pharma. I don’t believe in the green crap and creation of jobs... who is paying for this? I find most Biden voters just hate Trump really, really bad. And yeah... they have good reason. I’m just not voting for someone’s character on this election. This isn’t 1980 anymore.
As far as things not being true, I fact checked Biden during the debate. I recorded the debate and hit pause during moments to fact check and then started to play the debate again. He was incorrect in several counts. How is he different than Trump?
As far as rape charges- let the police figure that out. Even Biden has this Tera Reid claim of sexual abuse. It’s all noise on both sides. I’m letting the police, IRS, FBI, etc figure that stuff out. I’m not voting in those issues. Don’t judge me and I won’t judge you if you are. I get it.
With all the bullshit in Trump, very little had ever stuck. Even last night with the proud boys garbage.... shit, how many photos of the Clinton’s are with David Duke?
I don’t see the KKK lynching people near my house, but I do see burning buildings, and destruction. Only 30 min from my house and blocks from 2 of my rental houses in Kenosha.
They both played a part in the chaos. Trump can’t control himself. Everyone knows that. Biden should have been an adult and said something like.... Mr. President, please don’t interrupt and I will do the same. Let’s have a clean debate. Instead, he told him to shut up. He had an opportunity and he lost it.
Why do you hold them to different standards?
They are held to the standards expected as President of the United States of America. Sadly, neither meet those standards.
My comments were about winning the debate. I think Biden missed an opportunity. He could have acted like an honorable man and made Trump look like the fool everyone knows he is. Joe didn’t stand up to my expectations, so now they are both in the camp of unworthy ness of the position.
So, that’s our choices. I choose the guy who has gotten things done. Not the guy in politics for years without a plan, but people around him waiting to whisper in his ear. No thanks. That doesn’t mean I love Trump or am a Trump supporter. FYI.
Summon your ethics. You watched an abusive person obstruct the debate process by using insults, interruptions and lies. Who were the real losers? Americans. That debate was for YOU to hear Biden’s and Trump’s ideas. Trump broke the rules repeatedly to disrupt and rattle Biden so Biden couldn’t speak. Trump disrespected you.
Do you know abusers do the next day? They tell you that you’re crazy. They tell you it’s your fault. They lie about what they did. They will deny what you saw. They promise you it will get better. Watch what Trump tweets.
When you vote for Trump, you are VOTING FOR TRUMP. You are voting in favor of the abuser.
Speaking of abusers, how many credible rape and/or sexual assault allegations are there against Trump now? 26 or so?
You're also voting for that guy.
And ..... I’m not the only one in America.
Yep, and that's the scary part. That a significant portion of the country I love will vote for a authoritarian, bigoted, malignant narcissistic madman. Wish you all would have stayed awake or had better civics teachers.
Any list I find about "Trumps accomplishments" has been debunked and discredited 6 ways from Sunday.
Let me guess, Occupy Democrats?
Do some more research. He actually is the first president to accomplish most of what he said he would before he took Presidency as well.
As far as people around him getting things done, who cares? That’s delegation. Things are getting done. Do we expect our government to only be the President? I could care less if he sat on a beach and did zoom meetings all day as long as things were getting done. I am self employed and last week I took the day off and went to Road America to drive my car on the race track. My employees were at work.
That’s just noise man.
That is actually one of my biggest problems with Trump is his inability to get the Federal government to actually work as it should. I haven't seen solid performance as an executive officer. First, he took forever to put people into position that needed to be filled. Then he doesn't give them much autonomy to work and constantly pushes them to push the more partisan side of his agenda (most activities by the federal government are pretty non-partisan). He ignores the stuff that needs to be done, but isn't "sexy". Then when the people he originally found get tired of his shtick and quit, he doesn't bother replacing them or tries to circumvent Congress role in approving the replacements. The effectiveness and efficiency of the whole federal government has been significantly damaged.
On the pro side, that makes it so that the policies he pushes that I disagree with are only weakly implemented. On the downside, the policies that I do agree with are also weakly implemented and now are hyper partisan.
Any list I find about "Trumps accomplishments" has been debunked and discredited 6 ways from Sunday.
Let me guess, Occupy Democrats?
Do some more research. He actually is the first president to accomplish most of what he said he would before he took Presidency as well.
As far as people around him getting things done, who cares? That’s delegation. Things are getting done. Do we expect our government to only be the President? I could care less if he sat on a beach and did zoom meetings all day as long as things were getting done. I am self employed and last week I took the day off and went to Road America to drive my car on the race track. My employees were at work.
That’s just noise man.
That is actually one of my biggest problems with Trump is his inability to get the Federal government to actually work as it should. I haven't seen solid performance as an executive officer. First, he took forever to put people into position that needed to be filled. Then he doesn't give them much autonomy to work and constantly pushes them to push the more partisan side of his agenda (most activities by the federal government are pretty non-partisan). He ignores the stuff that needs to be done, but isn't "sexy". Then when the people he originally found get tired of his shtick and quit, he doesn't bother replacing them or tries to circumvent Congress role in approving the replacements. The effectiveness and efficiency of the whole federal government has been significantly damaged.
On the pro side, that makes it so that the policies he pushes that I disagree with are only weakly implemented. On the downside, the policies that I do agree with are also weakly implemented and now are hyper partisan.
I would really like to know when the federal government worked as it should. Look at many of the senators? It’s really sickening. It isn’t just Trump my friend. Even the state governors..... ugh
I should mention that beyond the debates last night and talking on this thread, I put a halt on politics. It was really eating me up. I had to get back to my own job and family before I lost my mind. It’s terrible everywhere.
I would really like to know when the federal government worked as it should. Look at many of the senators? It’s really sickening. It isn’t just Trump my friend. Even the state governors..... ugh
I should mention that beyond the debates last night and talking on this thread, I put a halt on politics. It was really eating me up. I had to get back to my own job and family before I lost my mind. It’s terrible everywhere.
That is generally how I feel about it all too. Most of us can't really do much but get angry about it, especially at a national level. Sort of like rooting for a sports team, it can be emotionally exhausting and deep down you know you don't make a difference.
But the US government has done some great things both because of and in spite of the leaders we elect. There is plenty wrong with it but I think it is the best we can get and one of the best in the world.
Start with “Trumps accomplishments†and “Biden’s accomplishmentsâ€.
I'm not going down that rabbit hole. And I respect that you actually engage here, and are clearly intelligent.
I honestly just don't care about accomplishments. I'll take a vacuous placeholder over Trump.
It's supposed to be conservatives who valued "character" above all, but in this case I think Biden's character is in a totally different class than Trump. And not because Biden's is good by any absolute standard. Just because Trump is a terrible, broken human being.
And I don't like the people around Trump anymore. Early on there were some good people. I don't like who's left.
Start with “Trumps accomplishments†and “Biden’s accomplishmentsâ€.
I'm not going down that rabbit hole. And I respect that you actually engage here, and are clearly intelligent.
I honestly just don't care about accomplishments. I'll take a vacuous placeholder over Trump.
It's supposed to be conservatives who valued "character" above all, but in this case I think Biden's character is in a totally different class than Trump. And not because Biden's is good by any absolute standard. Just because Trump is a terrible, broken human being.
And I don't like the people around Trump anymore. Early on there were some good people. I don't like who's left.
Can you imagine trump in the senate trying to accomplish anything? Who the hell is going to work with him?
Start with “Trumps accomplishments†and “Biden’s accomplishmentsâ€.
I'm not going down that rabbit hole. And I respect that you actually engage here, and are clearly intelligent.
I honestly just don't care about accomplishments. I'll take a vacuous placeholder over Trump.
It's supposed to be conservatives who valued "character" above all, but in this case I think Biden's character is in a totally different class than Trump. And not because Biden's is good by any absolute standard. Just because Trump is a terrible, broken human being.
And I don't like the people around Trump anymore. Early on there were some good people. I don't like who's left.
Can you imagine trump in the senate trying to accomplish anything? Who the hell is going to work with him?
he certainly wouldn't be as good as old Joe was at it. Nobody worked with Senate segregationists better than old Joe
Start with “Trumps accomplishments†and “Biden’s accomplishmentsâ€.
I'm not going down that rabbit hole. And I respect that you actually engage here, and are clearly intelligent.
I honestly just don't care about accomplishments. I'll take a vacuous placeholder over Trump.
It's supposed to be conservatives who valued "character" above all, but in this case I think Biden's character is in a totally different class than Trump. And not because Biden's is good by any absolute standard. Just because Trump is a terrible, broken human being.
And I don't like the people around Trump anymore. Early on there were some good people. I don't like who's left.
Can you imagine trump in the senate trying to accomplish anything? Who the hell is going to work with him?
he certainly wouldn't be as good as old Joe was at it. Nobody worked with Senate segregationists better than old Joe
Start with “Trumps accomplishments†and “Biden’s accomplishmentsâ€.
I'm not going down that rabbit hole. And I respect that you actually engage here, and are clearly intelligent.
I honestly just don't care about accomplishments. I'll take a vacuous placeholder over Trump.
It's supposed to be conservatives who valued "character" above all, but in this case I think Biden's character is in a totally different class than Trump. And not because Biden's is good by any absolute standard. Just because Trump is a terrible, broken human being.
And I don't like the people around Trump anymore. Early on there were some good people. I don't like who's left.
Can you imagine trump in the senate trying to accomplish anything? Who the hell is going to work with him?
he certainly wouldn't be as good as old Joe was at it. Nobody worked with Senate segregationists better than old Joe
Start with “Trumps accomplishments†and “Biden’s accomplishmentsâ€.
I'm not going down that rabbit hole. And I respect that you actually engage here, and are clearly intelligent.
I honestly just don't care about accomplishments. I'll take a vacuous placeholder over Trump.
It's supposed to be conservatives who valued "character" above all, but in this case I think Biden's character is in a totally different class than Trump. And not because Biden's is good by any absolute standard. Just because Trump is a terrible, broken human being.
And I don't like the people around Trump anymore. Early on there were some good people. I don't like who's left.
This is how people truly learn one another’s position. I’m choosing a candidate based on accomplishments and you are not. Fair enough. That’s how we are different.
I feel that the world has altered over time and much that is generally accepted today once wasn’t. Heck, in 1980 if someone had a tattoo they were judged. We would have chosen a Presidential candidate who was married and never divorced. It’s just not the same world anymore. I would like to have candidates who are “stand-up†people, but I didn’t think Hillary or Trump were and the same applies this election, in my mind. Biden wasn’t being factual during most of the debate. I’m open minded. I wish he dazzled me with a real plan and instead I saw his tactic as making Trump look bad and unfortunately much of what he said wasn’t true. So, I didn’t change my vote. I really thought Pete or Bloomberg had a better chance, but it is what it is.
A friend I ride with feels as you do. We are great friends and always will be. We can talk productively a out politics. It’s enlightening.
Start with “Trumps accomplishments†and “Biden’s accomplishmentsâ€.
I'm not going down that rabbit hole. And I respect that you actually engage here, and are clearly intelligent.
I honestly just don't care about accomplishments. I'll take a vacuous placeholder over Trump.
It's supposed to be conservatives who valued "character" above all, but in this case I think Biden's character is in a totally different class than Trump. And not because Biden's is good by any absolute standard. Just because Trump is a terrible, broken human being.
And I don't like the people around Trump anymore. Early on there were some good people. I don't like who's left.
Can you imagine trump in the senate trying to accomplish anything? Who the hell is going to work with him?
he certainly wouldn't be as good as old Joe was at it. Nobody worked with Senate segregationists better than old Joe
... Biden wasn’t being factual during most of the debate. I’m open minded. I wish he dazzled me with a real plan and instead I saw his tactic as making Trump look bad and unfortunately much of what he said wasn’t true...
Wait... you're actually claiming that what Biden said wasn't true and thus pushed you away from considering him, but don't suggest any proportional weight against Trump for the myriad, significantly-larger number of untruths the current president espoused during the discussion? Your cognitive dissonance is more than a bit high here.
Biden didn't make Trump look bad. Trump made Trump look bad.
... Biden wasn’t being factual during most of the debate. I’m open minded. I wish he dazzled me with a real plan and instead I saw his tactic as making Trump look bad and unfortunately much of what he said wasn’t true...
Wait... you're actually claiming that what Biden said wasn't true and thus pushed you away from considering him, but don't suggest any proportional weight against Trump for the myriad, significantly-larger number of untruths the current president espoused during the discussion? Your cognitive dissonance is more than a bit high here.
Biden didn't make Trump look bad. Trump made Trump look bad.
I was planning to vote Trump, but I’m always open minded. I was waiting to see if Biden offered anything to change my mind. He spoke negatively of Trump instead of positively about himself or the infamous “Biden planâ€, which doesn’t sound like his plan. Spoke of the Green New Deal, but says it isn’t the Green New Deal. He claimed Manufacturing is down under Trump and fact checking shows not true. Among other things.
He didn’t change my mind from voting Trump. I have to preface, as it’s pretty common for Trump haters to assume this means I fully back everything about Trump. I assure you, I don’t. Just because He gets my vote doesn’t mean he has my 100% support in all things.
And yes.... Trump spoke negatively about Biden too. Difference is, I don’t know anything positive that Biden is to offer other than not being Trump.
You can like Biden, it’s cool. I have nothing negative to say about your views.
Have you even looked at Biden’s online manifesto? You keep saying Biden has no plan and yet you didn’t even seem to realize he has many plans laid out. This rather undercuts your argument.
And where is Trump’s plan for his second term? He hasn’t even published anything. He couldn’t be bothered. And he said nothing about his second term plans in the debate.
You may not like the source, but Daniel Dale is a good fact checker and points out any false or misleading statements by both candidates.
Watch it and then let us know what you think about the two candidates and how many lies each told. No lying allowed!
I’ll watch it. However, CNN leans Democrat. I did a quick google search “Daniel Dale fact check Trumpâ€. Tons of hits. Then I googled “Daniel Dale fact check Bidenâ€. One mesely hit on the Green New Deal.
Again, I recorded the debate. I watched and paused at moments. Did my own fact checking. I found bunches of things that wasn’t true from Biden.
They are both liars. People have to not kid themselves that they are voting for honest Joe. A politician lies when his lips are moving. 47 year politician here. It’s not just Trump.
... Biden wasn’t being factual during most of the debate. I’m open minded. I wish he dazzled me with a real plan and instead I saw his tactic as making Trump look bad and unfortunately much of what he said wasn’t true...
Wait... you're actually claiming that what Biden said wasn't true and thus pushed you away from considering him, but don't suggest any proportional weight against Trump for the myriad, significantly-larger number of untruths the current president espoused during the discussion? Your cognitive dissonance is more than a bit high here.
Biden didn't make Trump look bad. Trump made Trump look bad.
I was planning to vote Trump, but I’m always open minded. I was waiting to see if Biden offered anything to change my mind. He spoke negatively of Trump instead of positively about himself or the infamous “Biden planâ€, which doesn’t sound like his plan. Spoke of the Green New Deal, but says it isn’t the Green New Deal. He claimed Manufacturing is down under Trump and fact checking shows not true. Among other things.
He didn’t change my mind from voting Trump. I have to preface, as it’s pretty common for Trump haters to assume this means I fully back everything about Trump. I assure you, I don’t. Just because He gets my vote doesn’t mean he has my 100% support in all things.
And yes.... Trump spoke negatively about Biden too. Difference is, I don’t know anything positive that Biden is to offer other than not being Trump.
You can like Biden, it’s cool. I have nothing negative to say about your views.
It’s OK. Biden’s Green New Deal isn’t the true Green New Deal. That’s why he brought Harris to the ticket. Because she’s a co sponsor of the real Green New Deal.
So you can start the term with Biden’s Green New Deal and then when he steps aside Harris and AOC can ramp it up to “their†Green New Deal.
It’s all good.
EDIT: Because you don’t actually think Biden is going to finish the first term let alone the second one do you??? Yeah neither do any of the Biden-Ettes here.
Have you even looked at Biden’s online manifesto? You keep saying Biden has no plan and yet you didn’t even seem to realize he has many plans laid out. This rather undercuts your argument.
And where is Trump’s plan for his second term? He hasn’t even published anything. He couldn’t be bothered. And he said nothing about his second term plans in the debate.
If Biden’s plan is so great, why not with his open mic moment talk about it? I don’t think he will implement it. I just don’t. I do think Trump will go after big Pharma. If he only does that in 4 years, I’m happy. He can do nothing else.
The medical industry is the only business that customers don’t know the prices. Ask a doctor how much a physical is or any simple procedure. As someone at the front desk. Nobody knows. You get bills months later and often many bills as they are sent from separate offices or doctors. X-ray is separate from patient visit, etc. then, look at drug prices. My girlfriend takes migraine meds. Walgreens wants like $180 and Costco has it for $20. Seriously.
Something has to change and we all know it. I’m not telling you or anyone anything new.
I’ll take this over Biden’s plan for good paying jobs that will help reach zero emissions 30 years from now.
You may not like the source, but Daniel Dale is a good fact checker and points out any false or misleading statements by both candidates.
Watch it and then let us know what you think about the two candidates and how many lies each told. No lying allowed!
I’ll watch it. However, CNN leans Democrat. I did a quick google search “Daniel Dale fact check Trumpâ€. Tons of hits. Then I googled “Daniel Dale fact check Bidenâ€. One mesely hit on the Green New Deal.
Again, I recorded the debate. I watched and paused at moments. Did my own fact checking. I found bunches of things that wasn’t true from Biden.
They are both liars. People have to not kid themselves that they are voting for honest Joe. A politician lies when his lips are moving. 47 year politician here. It’s not just Trump.
I watched the beginning with Daniel Dale. Not impressed.
Seriously. People need to do their own research and fact checking. The media is shit. Almost all media. I honestly don’t know of one really good station anymore. There is a reason Elon Musk plans to start a website to rate reporters.
Here is a quick article on manufacturing jobs. Media will claim Trump to be liar when stats are cited differently. Fact is, he didn’t lie- numbers were up, but they want to account for the numbers different than Trump. Regardless, to me, a liar is saying numbers are up when they are down. That’s not the case here. The numbers just are not as big as Trump claimed by the media’s methodology of stats.
Trump didn’t lie about Obama/ Biden manufacturing numbers. He said things were so bad after the recession, of course things go up easily like turning on a light switch. So, it’s fair to say Trump/ Pence performance on manufacturing exceeded Obama/Biden.
Have you even looked at Biden’s online manifesto? You keep saying Biden has no plan and yet you didn’t even seem to realize he has many plans laid out. This rather undercuts your argument.
And where is Trump’s plan for his second term? He hasn’t even published anything. He couldn’t be bothered. And he said nothing about his second term plans in the debate.
If Biden’s plan is so great, why not with his open mic moment talk about it? I don’t think he will implement it. I just don’t. I do think Trump will go after big Pharma. If he only does that in 4 years, I’m happy. He can do nothing else.
The medical industry is the only business that customers don’t know the prices. Ask a doctor how much a physical is or any simple procedure. As someone at the front desk. Nobody knows. You get bills months later and often many bills as they are sent from separate offices or doctors. X-ray is separate from patient visit, etc. then, look at drug prices. My girlfriend takes migraine meds. Walgreens wants like $180 and Costco has it for $20. Seriously.
Something has to change and we all know it. I’m not telling you or anyone anything new.
I’ll take this over Biden’s plan for good paying jobs that will help reach zero emissions 30 years from now.
They don't seem to be mutually exclusive objectives. You should demand both
I feel that the world has altered over time and much that is generally accepted today once wasn’t. Heck, in 1980 if someone had a tattoo they were judged. We would have chosen a Presidential candidate who was married and never divorced. It’s just not the same world anymore.
Did you vote in 1980?
If not, did you read up on that election? Who was the winner? Was he ever divorced?
You may not like the source, but Daniel Dale is a good fact checker and points out any false or misleading statements by both candidates.
Watch it and then let us know what you think about the two candidates and how many lies each told. No lying allowed!
I’ll watch it. However, CNN leans Democrat. I did a quick google search “Daniel Dale fact check Trumpâ€. Tons of hits. Then I googled “Daniel Dale fact check Bidenâ€. One mesely hit on the Green New Deal.
Again, I recorded the debate. I watched and paused at moments. Did my own fact checking. I found bunches of things that wasn’t true from Biden.
They are both liars. People have to not kid themselves that they are voting for honest Joe. A politician lies when his lips are moving. 47 year politician here. It’s not just Trump.
I watched the beginning with Daniel Dale. Not impressed.
Seriously. People need to do their own research and fact checking. The media is shit. Almost all media. I honestly don’t know of one really good station anymore. There is a reason Elon Musk plans to start a website to rate reporters.
Here is a quick article on manufacturing jobs. Media will claim Trump to be liar when stats are cited differently. Fact is, he didn’t lie- numbers were up, but they want to account for the numbers different than Trump. Regardless, to me, a liar is saying numbers are up when they are down. That’s not the case here. The numbers just are not as big as Trump claimed by the media’s methodology of stats.
Trump didn’t lie about Obama/ Biden manufacturing numbers. He said things were so bad after the recession, of course things go up easily like turning on a light switch. So, it’s fair to say Trump/ Pence performance on manufacturing exceeded Obama/Biden.
Why were you not impressed? He was exactly accurate on the timing and number of manufacturing jobs this country has, giving Trump credit that they went up under his watch before the pandemic, but to August 2020 they are down.
It's clear from this post and the one following, that nothing will sway you. Trump's efforts to take on big pharma have led to nothing (his efforts to get hospitals to be more transparent with their pricing has not had any impact on consumers' ability to 'shop around' or get better deals).
If all you want from Trump in his next for years is for him to take on pharmaceutical companies and reduce drug costs, that's a pretty low ask of the president of the United States. I thought you'd want a bit more than that.
It's pretty ironic your support is based on expectations in the healthcare industry, when you're supporting the party and president that has promised to repeal and replace the ACA for nearly a decade and STILL have not verbalized, much less publicized, and alternative. Trump keeps promising a cheaper and better alternative. Do you have ANY faith in him delivering on that promise? Please answer honestly.
Have you even looked at Biden’s online manifesto? You keep saying Biden has no plan and yet you didn’t even seem to realize he has many plans laid out. This rather undercuts your argument.
And where is Trump’s plan for his second term? He hasn’t even published anything. He couldn’t be bothered. And he said nothing about his second term plans in the debate.
If Biden’s plan is so great, why not with his open mic moment talk about it? I don’t think he will implement it. I just don’t. I do think Trump will go after big Pharma. If he only does that in 4 years, I’m happy. He can do nothing else.
The medical industry is the only business that customers don’t know the prices. Ask a doctor how much a physical is or any simple procedure. As someone at the front desk. Nobody knows. You get bills months later and often many bills as they are sent from separate offices or doctors. X-ray is separate from patient visit, etc. then, look at drug prices. My girlfriend takes migraine meds. Walgreens wants like $180 and Costco has it for $20. Seriously.
Something has to change and we all know it. I’m not telling you or anyone anything new.
I’ll take this over Biden’s plan for good paying jobs that will help reach zero emissions 30 years from now.
Well this is kinda silly and not really true.
ER visits - very true but this has its own complexity that you don’t really get to determine which ER you need to go to if you really need to go to an ER. Also it’s going to be hard to know the cost when they don’t know what they need to do yet.
Surgery - I’ve had 6 ortho surgeries since 2014 I knew the price estimate up front on all of them, mainly because the surgery center wants to make sure you pay for the deductible up front. Now where the problem comes in is that you don’t really have a surgical center choice because it’s the doctor who is going to dictate where they want to do the surgery. But I’ve never really noticed much of a difference on prices for those.
Regular checkups and appts - they have standard costs at every one of these I’ve been to. Most places are running your insurance up front to determine if you need a copay so they can give you the estimate before the dr visit. But it’s still always going to be an estimate because they aren’t sure of what the doctor will order.
I wouldn’t expect a doctor to know the price of a visit, he’s not doing the billing. Generally they are pretty good on prescription prices if it’s going to be a lot. I really don’t understand the complaint that you’ll get different bills from different doctors or for different procedures. If you need to use multiple doctors of course you’re going to get multiple bills. For example with surgery, you’re always going to get a bill from the anesthesiologist and a different one from the surgeon. They run their own businesses. Now would this be great if it billed through one location of course, but that’s way harder than it looks. Also depending on your insurance company this is all consolidated anyways. I can go onto our healthcare system and pay any of the bills directly from there even before we may get the paper bill.
From a drug price perspective, as a Republican, why would you have a problem with Walgreens charging $180 vs Costco charging $20? It’s pure business competition and Costco is wiping the floor with their prices. You can get these costs up front and you get to make an informed decision. Unless you’re new to shopping, I’m sure you’ve noticed prices can be dramatically different for the same product between companies.
Now if you think that Trump and the Republicans have a plan to fix all this I have a bridge to sell you so I can retire. They bitched and moaned and bitched an moaned for years about Obamacare. Trump was elected with a senate and house majority, they could have repealed and put in a new better plan that they had 8 years to put together. What did they present? Oh yeah jackshit. They’ve had another 4 years since they where they could have worked with Democrats to come up with something better. So far we’ve got drug discount cards... come on get your head out of your butt, they have no solution for healthcare or they would have presented it in the last 12 years.
As far as the new green deal, I think it’s way too much money and not feasible, but you better get used to it because the republicans could lose the senate and the presidency at this point. The republicans can’t get out of their own way and are going to keep losing people left and right. I was a Republican for years, but they have no plans, no platform and no new ideas. Not to mention no fiscal policy. So a vote for any of them is a vote for Trump and supporting Trump being a POS. I’m not going to vote for anyone who supports this overgrown toddler who has zero morals or decency.
Have you even looked at Biden’s online manifesto? You keep saying Biden has no plan and yet you didn’t even seem to realize he has many plans laid out. This rather undercuts your argument.
And where is Trump’s plan for his second term? He hasn’t even published anything. He couldn’t be bothered. And he said nothing about his second term plans in the debate.
If Biden’s plan is so great, why not with his open mic moment talk about it? I don’t think he will implement it. I just don’t. I do think Trump will go after big Pharma. If he only does that in 4 years, I’m happy. He can do nothing else.
The medical industry is the only business that customers don’t know the prices. Ask a doctor how much a physical is or any simple procedure. As someone at the front desk. Nobody knows. You get bills months later and often many bills as they are sent from separate offices or doctors. X-ray is separate from patient visit, etc. then, look at drug prices. My girlfriend takes migraine meds. Walgreens wants like $180 and Costco has it for $20. Seriously.
Something has to change and we all know it. I’m not telling you or anyone anything new.
I’ll take this over Biden’s plan for good paying jobs that will help reach zero emissions 30 years from now.
Well this is kinda silly and not really true.
ER visits - very true but this has its own complexity that you don’t really get to determine which ER you need to go to if you really need to go to an ER. Also it’s going to be hard to know the cost when they don’t know what they need to do yet.
Surgery - I’ve had 6 ortho surgeries since 2014 I knew the price estimate up front on all of them, mainly because the surgery center wants to make sure you pay for the deductible up front. Now where the problem comes in is that you don’t really have a surgical center choice because it’s the doctor who is going to dictate where they want to do the surgery. But I’ve never really noticed much of a difference on prices for those.
Regular checkups and appts - they have standard costs at every one of these I’ve been to. Most places are running your insurance up front to determine if you need a copay so they can give you the estimate before the dr visit. But it’s still always going to be an estimate because they aren’t sure of what the doctor will order.
I wouldn’t expect a doctor to know the price of a visit, he’s not doing the billing. Generally they are pretty good on prescription prices if it’s going to be a lot. I really don’t understand the complaint that you’ll get different bills from different doctors or for different procedures. If you need to use multiple doctors of course you’re going to get multiple bills. For example with surgery, you’re always going to get a bill from the anesthesiologist and a different one from the surgeon. They run their own businesses. Now would this be great if it billed through one location of course, but that’s way harder than it looks. Also depending on your insurance company this is all consolidated anyways. I can go onto our healthcare system and pay any of the bills directly from there even before we may get the paper bill.
From a drug price perspective, as a Republican, why would you have a problem with Walgreens charging $180 vs Costco charging $20? It’s pure business competition and Costco is wiping the floor with their prices. You can get these costs up front and you get to make an informed decision. Unless you’re new to shopping, I’m sure you’ve noticed prices can be dramatically different for the same product between companies.
Now if you think that Trump and the Republicans have a plan to fix all this I have a bridge to sell you so I can retire. They bitched and moaned and bitched an moaned for years about Obamacare. Trump was elected with a senate and house majority, they could have repealed and put in a new better plan that they had 8 years to put together. What did they present? Oh yeah jackshit. They’ve had another 4 years since they where they could have worked with Democrats to come up with something better. So far we’ve got drug discount cards... come on get your head out of your butt, they have no solution for healthcare or they would have presented it in the last 12 years.
As far as the new green deal, I think it’s way too much money and not feasible, but you better get used to it because the republicans could lose the senate and the presidency at this point. The republicans can’t get out of their own way and are going to keep losing people left and right. I was a Republican for years, but they have no plans, no platform and no new ideas. Not to mention no fiscal policy. So a vote for any of them is a vote for Trump and supporting Trump being a POS. I’m not going to vote for anyone who supports this overgrown toddler who has zero morals or decency.
Yeah, even up here the doc can tell you the cost of any standard thing, like routine checkups, vaccinations, and the like for things that are not covered by provincial health insurance. A few years ago, I had to get a physical that was not covered by either NS Health or my group health plan through work. $50 total cost, knew the cost before I even went in, paid cash. about a year later, I had to get another one done for the same reason, so not covered again. My doc said to me "didn't we just do this?" "yup". "any changes?" "Nope, no changes". He confirmed some things, rechecked basic physical stuff, and sent me on my way. no charge.
It obviously doesn't work that way for complicated stuff, especially things that involve multiple specialists. Swimming Workout of the Day:
Last year the House passed a bill to allow federal drug price negotiations and put a spending cap on prescriptions -- Elijah E. Cummings Lower Drug Costs Now Act. It was blocked with the help of pharma lobbyists Joe Grogan and Alex Azar . . . both work for the Trump admin.
I don’t know how much of that has changed recently due to electronic medical records. But it seems they are way more linked into insurance upfront then they used to be. But saying you can’t get a price isn’t really true.
Now if you call and say how much is xyz procedure going to cost after insurance and they don’t have your medical info then they definitely won’t be able to get that because of their billing adjustments depending on the insurer. I understand the frustration on this, but they’re complex agreements so you can’t just punch in a procedure and pick what the discount will be based on insurer.
But literally every surgery I had they called about a week before, ran my insurance to get a dollar amount I’d need to pay the day of surgery. Generally it was the deductible amount. They’d give a procedure estimate also. Pretty sure I had to sign that estimate when I got to the surgery center also. But the last surgery I had was back in March so I don’t remember exactly what I signed that morning.
So what exactly has trump done that is been good in the past four years? Serious question.
You are like the fourth or fifth person to ask jharris this question. Still waiting for an answer. His response will be that he doesn't respond because a) you can google it and b) he'll just get bashed by the hard-core leftists in the LR.
Defending the indefensible is tough work. ---------------------------------- "Go yell at an M&M"
I do think Trump will go after big Pharma. Last year the House passed a bill to allow federal drug price negotiations and put a spending cap on prescriptions -- Elijah E. Cummings Lower Drug Costs Now Act. It was blocked with the help of pharma lobbyists Joe Grogan and Alex Azar . . . both work for the Trump admin.
I personally liked when he said we'll go to different countries and buy drugs for Americans there...
That's a PERSONAL option for people living in Detroit, Buffalo, and Sault St Marie and literally no one else. It's not like the federal government can roll up to a Canadian drug store and buy enough medicine for 300 million people. It's not like AstraZeneca has some nefarious plot to sell drugs more expensive here. We subsidize the world's research because our laws allow it.
This is how people truly learn one another’s position. I’m choosing a candidate based on accomplishments and you are not. Fair enough. That’s how we are different.
I feel that the world has altered over time and much that is generally accepted today once wasn’t. Heck, in 1980 if someone had a tattoo they were judged. We would have chosen a Presidential candidate who was married and never divorced. It’s just not the same world anymore. I would like to have candidates who are “stand-up†people, but I didn’t think Hillary or Trump were and the same applies this election, in my mind. Biden wasn’t being factual during most of the debate. I’m open minded. I wish he dazzled me with a real plan and instead I saw his tactic as making Trump look bad and unfortunately much of what he said wasn’t true. So, I didn’t change my vote. I really thought Pete or Bloomberg had a better chance, but it is what it is.
First off, I sincerely respect that you're forming cogent arguments.
I disagree that Trump has been very effective. Frankly I think McConnell is the effective one, but that's another debate. Most of what he has been effective on, I disagree with.
That aside, the last four years have demonstrated how important a president's demeanor and ethics are. Trump's "just words" have clearly emboldened racist factions of this country that at the very least were a very minor facet of the face of America. His ethics have absolutely cost us respect of our allies. His scorched-earth policies are changing the way politicians will deem acceptable behavior for a generation. He flouts the emoluments clause, directs government officials and foreign guests to stay in his properties to his personal benefit, appoints unqualified family members to top government posts, calls the media that reports unfavorably on him "the enemy of the people," and calls into question the validity of our elections.
This is now normal operating procedure for the presidency of the United States of America. This will absolutely change the way the presidency will operate because others will see that it worked, worked well, and there were no repercussions.
If a candidate had positions that I agreed with yet behaved the way Trump does, and the opposition was someone of integrity like McCain or maybe Romney, I would absolutely vote against my positions because whether the tax rate is 31% or 34% is meaningless compared to a country that idolizes personal wealth and power over integrity and ethical application of that power.
It's commendable that you're voting based on your view of a candidate's accomplishments, but don't pretend the ethics of the most powerful person in the world aren't at least as important.
You may not like the source, but Daniel Dale is a good fact checker and points out any false or misleading statements by both candidates.
Watch it and then let us know what you think about the two candidates and how many lies each told. No lying allowed!
I’ll watch it. However, CNN leans Democrat. I did a quick google search “Daniel Dale fact check Trumpâ€. Tons of hits. Then I googled “Daniel Dale fact check Bidenâ€. One mesely hit on the Green New Deal.
Again, I recorded the debate. I watched and paused at moments. Did my own fact checking. I found bunches of things that wasn’t true from Biden.
They are both liars. People have to not kid themselves that they are voting for honest Joe. A politician lies when his lips are moving. 47 year politician here. It’s not just Trump.
I watched the beginning with Daniel Dale. Not impressed.
Seriously. People need to do their own research and fact checking. The media is shit. Almost all media. I honestly don’t know of one really good station anymore. There is a reason Elon Musk plans to start a website to rate reporters.
Here is a quick article on manufacturing jobs. Media will claim Trump to be liar when stats are cited differently. Fact is, he didn’t lie- numbers were up, but they want to account for the numbers different than Trump. Regardless, to me, a liar is saying numbers are up when they are down. That’s not the case here. The numbers just are not as big as Trump claimed by the media’s methodology of stats.
Trump didn’t lie about Obama/ Biden manufacturing numbers. He said things were so bad after the recession, of course things go up easily like turning on a light switch. So, it’s fair to say Trump/ Pence performance on manufacturing exceeded Obama/Biden.
Why were you not impressed? He was exactly accurate on the timing and number of manufacturing jobs this country has, giving Trump credit that they went up under his watch before the pandemic, but to August 2020 they are down.
It's clear from this post and the one following, that nothing will sway you. Trump's efforts to take on big pharma have led to nothing (his efforts to get hospitals to be more transparent with their pricing has not had any impact on consumers' ability to 'shop around' or get better deals).
If all you want from Trump in his next for years is for him to take on pharmaceutical companies and reduce drug costs, that's a pretty low ask of the president of the United States. I thought you'd want a bit more than that.
It's pretty ironic your support is based on expectations in the healthcare industry, when you're supporting the party and president that has promised to repeal and replace the ACA for nearly a decade and STILL have not verbalized, much less publicized, and alternative. Trump keeps promising a cheaper and better alternative. Do you have ANY faith in him delivering on that promise? Please answer honestly.
This conversation is why there is no reason for Biden to chase the votes of self-proclaimed disenchanted Republicans. If they want to vote for Biden great. But their requirements for that to happen are so over the top that the only way for Biden to do it is to take on the positions of an ultra-conservative Republican. At some point on here a while back someone actually said that if the Democrats nominated Kasich they would vote for him, well great, but that ain't gonna happen.
He says he is open to voting for Biden but just can't because Biden misstated that one thing and called Trump a mean name. Meanwhile Trump is confirmed to have lied 817 times in one sentence and has spent 5 years acting like a petulant toddler.
I'd be pissed if Biden spent any time at all trying to convince jharris to vote for him. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
This is how people truly learn one another’s position. I’m choosing a candidate based on accomplishments and you are not. Fair enough. That’s how we are different.
I feel that the world has altered over time and much that is generally accepted today once wasn’t. Heck, in 1980 if someone had a tattoo they were judged. We would have chosen a Presidential candidate who was married and never divorced. It’s just not the same world anymore. I would like to have candidates who are “stand-up†people, but I didn’t think Hillary or Trump were and the same applies this election, in my mind. Biden wasn’t being factual during most of the debate. I’m open minded. I wish he dazzled me with a real plan and instead I saw his tactic as making Trump look bad and unfortunately much of what he said wasn’t true. So, I didn’t change my vote. I really thought Pete or Bloomberg had a better chance, but it is what it is.
First off, I sincerely respect that you're forming cogent arguments.
I disagree that Trump has been very effective. Frankly I think McConnell is the effective one, but that's another debate. Most of what he has been effective on, I disagree with.
That aside, the last four years have demonstrated how important a president's demeanor and ethics are. Trump's "just words" have clearly emboldened racist factions of this country that at the very least were a very minor facet of the face of America. His ethics have absolutely cost us respect of our allies. His scorched-earth policies are changing the way politicians will deem acceptable behavior for a generation. He flouts the emmulants clause, directs government officials and foreign guests to stay in his properties to his personal benefit, appoints unqualified family members to top government posts, calls the media that reports unfavorably on him "the enemy of the people," and calls into question the validity of our elections.
This is now normal operating procedure for the presidency of the United State of America. This will absolutely change the way the presidency will operate because others will see that it worked, worked well, and there were no repercussions.
If a candidate had positions that I agreed with yet behaved the way Trump does, and the opposition was someone of integrity like McCain or maybe Romney, I would absolutely vote against my positions because whether the tax rate is 31% or 34% is meaningless compared to a country that idolizes personal wealth and power over integrity and ethical application of that power.
It's commendable that you're voting based on your view of a candidate's accomplishments, but don't pretend the ethics of the most powerful person in the world aren't at least as important.
This exactly. trump’s “accomplishments†are bullshit, but even if they weren’t it is irrelevant. Policies are irrelevant. This country will burn and descend further and further into the sewer until trump is removed and a sense of normalcy and decorum restored.
I find it incredibly sad and disgusting that the POTUS is held by many to a much lower standard than someone applying or running for municipal court judge.
This is how people truly learn one another’s position. I’m choosing a candidate based on accomplishments and you are not. Fair enough. That’s how we are different.
I feel that the world has altered over time and much that is generally accepted today once wasn’t. Heck, in 1980 if someone had a tattoo they were judged. We would have chosen a Presidential candidate who was married and never divorced. It’s just not the same world anymore. I would like to have candidates who are “stand-up†people, but I didn’t think Hillary or Trump were and the same applies this election, in my mind. Biden wasn’t being factual during most of the debate. I’m open minded. I wish he dazzled me with a real plan and instead I saw his tactic as making Trump look bad and unfortunately much of what he said wasn’t true. So, I didn’t change my vote. I really thought Pete or Bloomberg had a better chance, but it is what it is.
First off, I sincerely respect that you're forming cogent arguments.
I disagree that Trump has been very effective. Frankly I think McConnell is the effective one, but that's another debate. Most of what he has been effective on, I disagree with.
That aside, the last four years have demonstrated how important a president's demeanor and ethics are. Trump's "just words" have clearly emboldened racist factions of this country that at the very least were a very minor facet of the face of America. His ethics have absolutely cost us respect of our allies. His scorched-earth policies are changing the way politicians will deem acceptable behavior for a generation. He flouts the emmulants clause, directs government officials and foreign guests to stay in his properties to his personal benefit, appoints unqualified family members to top government posts, calls the media that reports unfavorably on him "the enemy of the people," and calls into question the validity of our elections.
This is now normal operating procedure for the presidency of the United State of America. This will absolutely change the way the presidency will operate because others will see that it worked, worked well, and there were no repercussions.
If a candidate had positions that I agreed with yet behaved the way Trump does, and the opposition was someone of integrity like McCain or maybe Romney, I would absolutely vote against my positions because whether the tax rate is 31% or 34% is meaningless compared to a country that idolizes personal wealth and power over integrity and ethical application of that power.
It's commendable that you're voting based on your view of a candidate's accomplishments, but don't pretend the ethics of the most powerful person in the world aren't at least as important.
This exactly. trump’s “accomplishments†are bullshit, but even if they weren’t it is irrelevant. Policies are irrelevant. This country will burn and descend further and further into the sewer until trump is removed and a sense of normalcy and decorum restored.
I find it incredibly sad and disgusting that the POTUS is held by many to a much lower standard than someone applying or running for municipal court judge.
If I grant that all the listed accomplishments are real, it ignores a whole herd of elephants in the room.
Among the policies that are failures: Climate Change Pandemic Response Clean Air Clean Water Safe Food Preserving wild places Hell - just every damn environmental thing he has done ever Deficit Spending - you can use pre or post pandemic - of course you can juice an economy if you run interest rates to zero and spend like a drunken sailor Foreign Policy - geez that turns into a really long list - I mean - after Tuesday they are literally laughing at us Internal Divisiveness Stating out loud that he will not help areas that did not vote for him
Those outweigh any judges, any ridiculous wall claims, any stock market gains, all of it. He got the peripheral things they like but they are ignoring the things that actually have long term impact.
People said that they wanted someone to run the country like a business. What you fools didn't understand is you hired someone who did just that. He is running the country like a CEO whose only goal is to drive the stock price up for just a moment so he can cash in his stock options at a huge profit and doesn't give a damn about what happens to the place after he uses his golden parachute to bail out on the way down. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
One of the most ridiculous positions is people wanting the country to be run like a business. A business is generally trying to increase revenue and decrease expenses.
Do people actually want the government to maximize revenue? Or to cut services? Gov't is not a business, don't treat it like one. Swimming Workout of the Day:
for 4 years i have said the same thing, not that i'm a sage and a seer, because many others have said this. i recognized an anti-democrat when i saw one, and it was easy to see that trump did not care about democracy 4 years ago.
policies come and go. "accomplishments" come and go. what did jimmy carter do? what did gerald ford do? what were their accomplishments? what did bush 41 do? all these men were presidents during my adult life. it's hard to remember what they all achieved, that matters to us all now.
the luxury that our population enjoys - jharris, you, me, all of us - is the capacity of the citizenry to choose its leaders. this is what is at stake. certain smart men here, JSA as one notable example, have countered over the last 4 years that trump is a "buffoon" but not a threat. i think we see how weak that argument is.
donald trump enjoys american citizenship. but he is not an american by belief structure. trump does not understand what makes america different than russia, saudi arabia, or any other country. if you don't understand the institutions of democracy - if these are not sacred processes that set america part, that make it great, that make it a beacon for the world - then the instinct to protect it is not in you.
we can debate whether trump has actually accomplished anything positive over the last 4 years. but this question of accomplishments is analogous to whether a prospective spouse makes good macaroni. i'm you're marrying marilyn (or mark) because she (or he) makes good macaroni, we can debate whether the macaroni is in fact good but if marilyn/mark cheats on her intended; hocks the appliances to pay for his/her drug habit; does not understand and value commonly accepted axioms that make a family work; macaroni skill is quickly forgotten when the shit hits the fan.
the shit is hitting the fan. the fan has been broadcasting the shit for 4 years. the free world doesn't know whether to laugh or cry. what you will certainly NOT hear from trump supporters is a cogent, reasoned argument that champions the processes and institutions that have supported the american experiment for a quarter-millenium.
cue the false equivalencies, of course. but there is no "other side." there is no equivalency. what you need to know is this - and it's why jurist and generals, diplomats and career professionals, republicans all, have abandoned trump even as they still adhere to republican beliefs - if you support trump, the love of democracy is not in you. maybe it's because you just don't care about democracy - that you, like trump, believe that america is a physical place only, and its form of government is an unimportant detail. maybe it's because you haven't really considered democracy; that it's just an abstract notion on the periphery of your vision. that love of the american experience is, regardless of the reason, not in you. your vote and allegiance has been purchased by macaroni. Dan Empfield aka Slowman
... Biden wasn’t being factual during most of the debate. I’m open minded. I wish he dazzled me with a real plan and instead I saw his tactic as making Trump look bad and unfortunately much of what he said wasn’t true...
Wait... you're actually claiming that what Biden said wasn't true and thus pushed you away from considering him, but don't suggest any proportional weight against Trump for the myriad, significantly-larger number of untruths the current president espoused during the discussion? Your cognitive dissonance is more than a bit high here.
Biden didn't make Trump look bad. Trump made Trump look bad.
I was planning to vote Trump, but I’m always open minded. I was waiting to see if Biden offered anything to change my mind. He spoke negatively of Trump instead of positively about himself or the infamous “Biden planâ€, which doesn’t sound like his plan. Spoke of the Green New Deal, but says it isn’t the Green New Deal. He claimed Manufacturing is down under Trump and fact checking shows not true. Among other things.
He didn’t change my mind from voting Trump. I have to preface, as it’s pretty common for Trump haters to assume this means I fully back everything about Trump. I assure you, I don’t. Just because He gets my vote doesn’t mean he has my 100% support in all things.
And yes.... Trump spoke negatively about Biden too. Difference is, I don’t know anything positive that Biden is to offer other than not being Trump.
You can like Biden, it’s cool. I have nothing negative to say about your views.
It’s OK. Biden’s Green New Deal isn’t the true Green New Deal. That’s why he brought Harris to the ticket. Because she’s a co sponsor of the real Green New Deal.
So you can start the term with Biden’s Green New Deal and then when he steps aside Harris and AOC can ramp it up to “their†Green New Deal.
It’s all good.
EDIT: Because you don’t actually think Biden is going to finish the first term let alone the second one do you??? Yeah neither do any of the Biden-Ettes here.
I don’t know what this response is because I already said what you said before. So, we agree.
Have you even looked at Biden’s online manifesto? You keep saying Biden has no plan and yet you didn’t even seem to realize he has many plans laid out. This rather undercuts your argument.
And where is Trump’s plan for his second term? He hasn’t even published anything. He couldn’t be bothered. And he said nothing about his second term plans in the debate.
If Biden’s plan is so great, why not with his open mic moment talk about it? I don’t think he will implement it. I just don’t. I do think Trump will go after big Pharma. If he only does that in 4 years, I’m happy. He can do nothing else.
The medical industry is the only business that customers don’t know the prices. Ask a doctor how much a physical is or any simple procedure. As someone at the front desk. Nobody knows. You get bills months later and often many bills as they are sent from separate offices or doctors. X-ray is separate from patient visit, etc. then, look at drug prices. My girlfriend takes migraine meds. Walgreens wants like $180 and Costco has it for $20. Seriously.
Something has to change and we all know it. I’m not telling you or anyone anything new.
I’ll take this over Biden’s plan for good paying jobs that will help reach zero emissions 30 years from now.
They don't seem to be mutually exclusive objectives. You should demand both
Shit. Demanding anything or expecting ANY results, sadly, is a dream.
You may not like the source, but Daniel Dale is a good fact checker and points out any false or misleading statements by both candidates.
Watch it and then let us know what you think about the two candidates and how many lies each told. No lying allowed!
I’ll watch it. However, CNN leans Democrat. I did a quick google search “Daniel Dale fact check Trumpâ€. Tons of hits. Then I googled “Daniel Dale fact check Bidenâ€. One mesely hit on the Green New Deal.
Again, I recorded the debate. I watched and paused at moments. Did my own fact checking. I found bunches of things that wasn’t true from Biden.
They are both liars. People have to not kid themselves that they are voting for honest Joe. A politician lies when his lips are moving. 47 year politician here. It’s not just Trump.
I watched the beginning with Daniel Dale. Not impressed.
Seriously. People need to do their own research and fact checking. The media is shit. Almost all media. I honestly don’t know of one really good station anymore. There is a reason Elon Musk plans to start a website to rate reporters.
Here is a quick article on manufacturing jobs. Media will claim Trump to be liar when stats are cited differently. Fact is, he didn’t lie- numbers were up, but they want to account for the numbers different than Trump. Regardless, to me, a liar is saying numbers are up when they are down. That’s not the case here. The numbers just are not as big as Trump claimed by the media’s methodology of stats.
Trump didn’t lie about Obama/ Biden manufacturing numbers. He said things were so bad after the recession, of course things go up easily like turning on a light switch. So, it’s fair to say Trump/ Pence performance on manufacturing exceeded Obama/Biden.
Why were you not impressed? He was exactly accurate on the timing and number of manufacturing jobs this country has, giving Trump credit that they went up under his watch before the pandemic, but to August 2020 they are down.
It's clear from this post and the one following, that nothing will sway you. Trump's efforts to take on big pharma have led to nothing (his efforts to get hospitals to be more transparent with their pricing has not had any impact on consumers' ability to 'shop around' or get better deals).
If all you want from Trump in his next for years is for him to take on pharmaceutical companies and reduce drug costs, that's a pretty low ask of the president of the United States. I thought you'd want a bit more than that.
It's pretty ironic your support is based on expectations in the healthcare industry, when you're supporting the party and president that has promised to repeal and replace the ACA for nearly a decade and STILL have not verbalized, much less publicized, and alternative. Trump keeps promising a cheaper and better alternative. Do you have ANY faith in him delivering on that promise? Please answer honestly.
This conversation is why there is no reason for Biden to chase the votes of self-proclaimed disenchanted Republicans. If they want to vote for Biden great. But their requirements for that to happen are so over the top that the only way for Biden to do it is to take on the positions of an ultra-conservative Republican. At some point on here a while back someone actually said that if the Democrats nominated Kasich they would vote for him, well great, but that ain't gonna happen.
He says he is open to voting for Biden but just can't because Biden misstated that one thing and called Trump a mean name. Meanwhile Trump is confirmed to have lied 817 times in one sentence and has spent 5 years acting like a petulant toddler.
I'd be pissed if Biden spent any time at all trying to convince jharris to vote for him.
First off, I am far from ultra-conservative. So, chasing ultra-conservatives isn’t what ANY Democrat should do, nor should a Republican chase a far lefts vote. Regardless, with California, New York, and a Florida being Democrat states and the electoral votes those states retain, its surprising anyone other than Democrat could ever win. It’s like starting an Ironman and letting a dude skip the swim and start at mile 30 on the bike. Lol
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
First off, I am far from ultra-conservative. So, chasing ultra-conservatives isn’t what ANY Democrat should do, nor should a Republican chase a far lefts vote. Regardless, with California, New York, and a Florida being Democrat states and the electoral votes those states retain, its surprising anyone other than Democrat could ever win. It’s like starting an Ironman and letting a dude skip the swim and start at mile 30 on the bike. Lol
You don't understand the Electoral College, do you? You can win the EC with less than 30% of the popular vote, so it is irrelevant how many EC votes California and New York have.
Quote:
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
You have not explained why Trump is great, and now you haven't explained why Biden sucks. Care to illuminate us with facts? Please don't start with "He's a puppet of Schumer/Pelosi/AOC/Hillary," unless you have evidence of that.
Thanks in advance.
(I will vote for Biden, although I don't think that among the Democratic candidates he was the best choice *to be President*. I do believe that he was the best choice *to be elected* and be a competent President. Convince me that he sucks) ---------------------------------- "Go yell at an M&M"
First off, I am far from ultra-conservative. So, chasing ultra-conservatives isn’t what ANY Democrat should do, nor should a Republican chase a far lefts vote. Regardless, with California, New York, and a Florida being Democrat states and the electoral votes those states retain, its surprising anyone other than Democrat could ever win. It’s like starting an Ironman and letting a dude skip the swim and start at mile 30 on the bike. Lol
Florida is a Democratic state? Florida, with a Republican governor, Republican state legislature, and 2 Republican Senators? That Florida?
One of the most ridiculous positions is people wanting the country to be run like a business. A business is generally trying to increase revenue and decrease expenses.
Do people actually want the government to maximize revenue? Or to cut services? Gov't is not a business, don't treat it like one.
Yes, as someone who worked in public sector for 10 years, I saw so much waste. So yes, I would like to see Govt. efficiently use the revenue they bring in. And I'd like to see them bring in more revenue by creating a booming economy that brings in more taxes because people are making more money. Not taking more money from people making the same amount of money.
And yes, I think the Fed Govt. is way to big. I think they should cut a ton of services. I would like to see them cut spending (but don't hold out hope of that ever happening).
The grow, tax and spend idea of govt is ridiculous. People should hope that a huge govt is not needed and what govt that does exist has little impact on them.
for 4 years i have said the same thing, not that i'm a sage and a seer, because many others have said this. i recognized an anti-democrat when i saw one, and it was easy to see that trump did not care about democracy 4 years ago.
policies come and go. "accomplishments" come and go. what did jimmy carter do? what did gerald ford do? what were their accomplishments? what did bush 41 do? all these men were presidents during my adult life. it's hard to remember what they all achieved, that matters to us all now.
the luxury that our population enjoys - jharris, you, me, all of us - is the capacity of the citizenry to choose its leaders. this is what is at stake. certain smart men here, JSA as one notable example, have countered over the last 4 years that trump is a "buffoon" but not a threat. i think we see how weak that argument is.
donald trump enjoys american citizenship. but he is not an american by belief structure. trump does not understand what makes america different than russia, saudi arabia, or any other country. if you don't understand the institutions of democracy - if these are not sacred processes that set america part, that make it great, that make it a beacon for the world - then the instinct to protect it is not in you.
we can debate whether trump has actually accomplished anything positive over the last 4 years. but this question of accomplishments is analogous to whether a prospective spouse makes good macaroni. i'm you're marrying marilyn (or mark) because she (or he) makes good macaroni, we can debate whether the macaroni is in fact good but if marilyn/mark cheats on her intended; hocks the appliances to pay for his/her drug habit; does not understand and value commonly accepted axioms that make a family work; macaroni skill is quickly forgotten when the shit hits the fan.
the shit is hitting the fan. the fan has been broadcasting the shit for 4 years. the free world doesn't know whether to laugh or cry. what you will certainly NOT hear from trump supporters is a cogent, reasoned argument that champions the processes and institutions that have supported the american experiment for a quarter-millenium.
cue the false equivalencies, of course. but there is no "other side." there is no equivalency. what you need to know is this - and it's why jurist and generals, diplomats and career professionals, republicans all, have abandoned trump even as they still adhere to republican beliefs - if you support trump, the love of democracy is not in you. maybe it's because you just don't care about democracy - that you, like trump, believe that america is a physical place only, and its form of government is an unimportant detail. maybe it's because you haven't really considered democracy; that it's just an abstract notion on the periphery of your vision. that love of the american experience is, regardless of the reason, not in you. your vote and allegiance has been purchased by macaroni.
One of the most ridiculous positions is people wanting the country to be run like a business. A business is generally trying to increase revenue and decrease expenses.
Do people actually want the government to maximize revenue? Or to cut services? Gov't is not a business, don't treat it like one.
Yes, as someone who worked in public sector for 10 years, I saw so much waste. So yes, I would like to see Govt. efficiently use the revenue they bring in. And I'd like to see them bring in more revenue by creating a booming economy that brings in more taxes because people are making more money. Not taking more money from people making the same amount of money.
And yes, I think the Fed Govt. is way to big. I think they should cut a ton of services. I would like to see them cut spending (but don't hold out hope of that ever happening).
The grow, tax and spend idea of govt is ridiculous. People should hope that a huge govt is not needed and what govt that does exist has little impact on them.
Sure, that's OK to want the government to spend your tax dollars efficiently. that is not the same as operating the government like you would a business.
A business is free to make all kinds of decisions that a government should not. Maybe certain customer segments for a business are unprofitable. A business can decide to get out of those markets and not offer those services anymore. Most things that a government does are not revenue-generating activities, they aren't tied to a particular tax. Gov't doesn't have competition for most of the services it provides, nor do you really want there to be competition. e.g. law enforcement and judiciary, police services, military services, etc....
Determining how to effectively and efficiently deliver services to the people of the country is not the same as running a for-profit business. Swimming Workout of the Day:
While millions of Americans weighed their options between Donald Trump and Joe Biden during Tuesday night’s debate, many were considering a third option: move to Canada. Google data shows a huge spike in “move to Canada†as a search term on Tuesday night, with traffic exploding shortly after the debate started at 9 p.m. Eastern Time. Traffic dipped overnight, then surged again as Americans woke up from a night that they would probably rather forget. This screenshot shows Google traffic spiking around the search term ‘move to Canada’ on Sept. 29, 2020. Google Interest was highest in Oregon, the West Coast state currently grappling with a devastating string of wildfires. Americans in Vermont, Colorado, Washington and Minnesota were also very curious about packing their bags and moving north.
And yes, I think the Fed Govt. is way to big. I think they should cut a ton of services. I would like to see them cut spending (but don't hold out hope of that ever happening).
The grow, tax and spend idea of govt is ridiculous. People should hope that a huge govt is not needed and what govt that does exist has little impact on them.
As much as people believe I am liberal because of my disdain for Trump, I couldn't agree more with this.
It is my single biggest pet peeve with our government in Canada, the rush to offer more and more programs and throw Federal/Provincial money around.
Fivethirtyeight has some polls that are suggesting the debate went in Biden's favor slightly.
What's more interesting is that Biden's chances have now increased to 80%, which is significantly better than Clinton's 71% (actually 67% as of October 1 2016).
They're estimating Trump has a 10% chance to win the popular vote, but there's a 10% chance he'll win the electoral college even if he loses the popular vote. Compare that to his 19% chance of winning the popular vote in 2016.
Consider that Fivethirtyeight, like all pollsters, has taken steps to account for what they missed about Trump last time around, and it's not good news for Trump. Expect him to go to some extreme lengths in the next debate because he has no choice. He needs to make up a lot of ground.
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden sucks. I can't remember a less inspiring Democratic Party candidate except maybe Dukakis. I am looking forward to voting for him.
I appreciate you being part of the discussion in forthcoming way. I can't be easy.
I see Trump as a threat to our country and no piece of policy is important enough for me to endorse a threat to our country. ------------------------------ The first time man split the atom was when the atom tried to hold Jens Voigt's wheel, but cracked.
I see Trump as a threat to our country and no piece of policy is important enough for me to endorse a threat to our country.
I think many of us feel this way. Unfortunately there are probably just as many people feel Biden is a bigger threat and therefore feel forced to vote for Trump. You and I see this as an asinine discrepancy. Not all agree.
You are like the fourth or fifth person to ask jharris this question. Still waiting for an answer. His response will be that he doesn't respond because a) you can google it and b) he'll just get bashed by the hard-core leftists in the LR.
Defending the indefensible is tough work.
I am just curious if this has been answered yet. To me it seems silly to vote for someone because 1) they dont support the person OR most of what he is about BUT, 2) say you like them because they get stuff done and like their policies/accomplishments... and then not list what you agree with. 3) tell people discussion about policies are ways to educate other people.
I used to understand the tea party because I believed we needed to get the debt under control, minimize government spending, supporting small government/local government, etc. If people said that is what they were about, I could understand that - and in fact I supported it. However, in practice - and when in power - that is NOT what happened. Similar to originalists/scalia fan boys for the constitution who are against an originalist / "relevant at any given time" meaning of the second amendment.
So the question as to trump's accomplishments for me are two fold 1) to understand what people like about trump, 2) to hold people to those standards. (Much like i currently make fun of the GOP for in 2016 caring about 1) email security, 2) foreign threats, 3) corruption in the government, 4) self dealing, 5) different sets of rules for the elites, 6) tax cuts that dont help the wealthy, 7) beautiful and cheap health care.
Currently it appears the remaining trump supporters care about 1) nato, 2) supreme court justices, 3) left wing groups, 4) immigration, 5) drug prices. While in office trump hasnt made any legal immigration plan - remember "extreme vetting" that was never explained and was essentially "no Muslims" - nor has trump done anything about drug prices.
Consider that Fivethirtyeight, like all pollsters...
Counterpoint, 538 are NOT pollsters. They aggregate polls and model results based on other people's polls
Counter-counterpoint: 538 has begun doing some of its own polling. But you're right, for the most part they rely on others' polling. But they do weight those polls subjectively, and they do that with what they learned from the 2016 election.
First off, I am far from ultra-conservative. So, chasing ultra-conservatives isn’t what ANY Democrat should do, nor should a Republican chase a far lefts vote. Regardless, with California, New York, and a Florida being Democrat states and the electoral votes those states retain, its surprising anyone other than Democrat could ever win. It’s like starting an Ironman and letting a dude skip the swim and start at mile 30 on the bike. Lol
Florida is a Democratic state? Florida, with a Republican governor, Republican state legislature, and 2 Republican Senators? That Florida?
I misquoted. I was looking at this chart the other day and the head start Democrat’s have with strong Democrat states and electoral votes.
If I grant that all the listed accomplishments are real, it ignores a whole herd of elephants in the room.
Among the policies that are failures: Climate Change Pandemic Response Clean Air Clean Water Safe Food Preserving wild places Hell - just every damn environmental thing he has done ever Deficit Spending - you can use pre or post pandemic - of course you can juice an economy if you run interest rates to zero and spend like a drunken sailor Foreign Policy - geez that turns into a really long list - I mean - after Tuesday they are literally laughing at us Internal Divisiveness Stating out loud that he will not help areas that did not vote for him
Those outweigh any judges, any ridiculous wall claims, any stock market gains, all of it. He got the peripheral things they like but they are ignoring the things that actually have long term impact.
People said that they wanted someone to run the country like a business. What you fools didn't understand is you hired someone who did just that. He is running the country like a CEO whose only goal is to drive the stock price up for just a moment so he can cash in his stock options at a huge profit and doesn't give a damn about what happens to the place after he uses his golden parachute to bail out on the way down.
I would agree but if the US is a stock, it’s share price has never been lower.
Pretty typical for a Trump run business though. How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden sucks. I can't remember a less inspiring Democratic Party candidate except maybe Dukakis. I am looking forward to voting for him.
I appreciate you being part of the discussion in forthcoming way. I can't be easy.
I see Trump as a threat to our country and no piece of policy is important enough for me to endorse a threat to our country.
This. Biden is, frankly, pretty mediocre, and that's being generous. He was terrible in the debate, but many still seem to think he won by default. But as you say, he is not the threat to the fabric of our society and our institutions that Trump is. It's not a contest.
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden sucks. I can't remember a less inspiring Democratic Party candidate except maybe Dukakis. I am looking forward to voting for him.
I appreciate you being part of the discussion in forthcoming way. I can't be easy.
I see Trump as a threat to our country and no piece of policy is important enough for me to endorse a threat to our country.
This. Biden is, frankly, pretty mediocre, and that's being generous. He was terrible in the debate, but many still seem to think he won by default. But as you say, he is not the threat to the fabric of our society and our institutions that Trump is. It's not a contest.
Double this.
Four more years of President Trump will be far far worse than four years of President Biden.
Hopefully in 2024 either party can muster the balls to put forth a worthy human candidate.
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden sucks. I can't remember a less inspiring Democratic Party candidate except maybe Dukakis. I am looking forward to voting for him.
I appreciate you being part of the discussion in forthcoming way. I can't be easy.
I see Trump as a threat to our country and no piece of policy is important enough for me to endorse a threat to our country.
This. Biden is, frankly, pretty mediocre, and that's being generous. He was terrible in the debate, but many still seem to think he won by default. But as you say, he is not the threat to the fabric of our society and our institutions that Trump is. It's not a contest.
Many, like me, disagree. We have nothing but threats, just of various kinds. Hillary was an entirely different kind of threat and because of that, I wanted nothing to do with her so Trump got my vote in 2016. I wasn’t a Trump lover, not am now. I voted for Trump then for many reasons people are voting Biden now.
We know who Trump is.... choose the devil you know it the devil you don’t know. Understand my concern isn’t as much with Biden as it is the surrounding people who I believe will sway him. I don’t think Biden is strong enough to fight the corruption in our government. Trump is a bully and when your lunch money is stolen enough, it’s better to befriend the bully. I don’t believe Harris and many known Radicals will stand back and let Boden do his thing.... whatever that is because I don’t really know. He sounds very political saying the right things- wear a mask til Han and save 100k lives. We can beat racism together, there is nothing we can’t do- together. It just sounds like a 47 year politician and I honestly can’t say I believe it.
I know the last 3 years wasn’t World War 3 as many expected and all the celebrities didn’t move out of the USA as they claimed.
... Biden wasn’t being factual during most of the debate. I’m open minded. I wish he dazzled me with a real plan and instead I saw his tactic as making Trump look bad and unfortunately much of what he said wasn’t true...
Wait... you're actually claiming that what Biden said wasn't true and thus pushed you away from considering him, but don't suggest any proportional weight against Trump for the myriad, significantly-larger number of untruths the current president espoused during the discussion? Your cognitive dissonance is more than a bit high here.
Biden didn't make Trump look bad. Trump made Trump look bad.
FYI- I’m still considering Biden. Why wouldn’t I? Why be closed minded. We still have 1 month. I’m not expecting my vote to change, but I’m certainly not opposed to it.
I feel that the world has altered over time and much that is generally accepted today once wasn’t. Heck, in 1980 if someone had a tattoo they were judged. We would have chosen a Presidential candidate who was married and never divorced. It’s just not the same world anymore.
Did you vote in 1980?
If not, did you read up on that election? Who was the winner? Was he ever divorced?
Like Grifter Twump, you just stated a falsehood.
I was too young to vote. Far too young then.
So, forgive me if my idea of “family values†and character was a poor example. I just don’t believe that matters as much now. It may with the older voters. Hell, the 21 year olds think Biden quotes are Trump quotes and don’t know what the civil war is .... according to videos of random people on California beaches. I don’t think they vote today the same as people did in 1980. That’s my point. Sorry for the error if I made one.
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden sucks. I can't remember a less inspiring Democratic Party candidate except maybe Dukakis. I am looking forward to voting for him.
I appreciate you being part of the discussion in forthcoming way. I can't be easy.
I see Trump as a threat to our country and no piece of policy is important enough for me to endorse a threat to our country.
This. Biden is, frankly, pretty mediocre, and that's being generous. He was terrible in the debate, but many still seem to think he won by default. But as you say, he is not the threat to the fabric of our society and our institutions that Trump is. It's not a contest.
Many, like me, disagree. We have nothing but threats, just of various kinds. Hillary was an entirely different kind of threat and because of that, I wanted nothing to do with her so Trump got my vote in 2016. I wasn’t a Trump lover, not am now. I voted for Trump then for many reasons people are voting Biden now.
We know who Trump is.... choose the devil you know it the devil you don’t know. Understand my concern isn’t as much with Biden as it is the surrounding people who I believe will sway him. I don’t think Biden is strong enough to fight the corruption in our government. Trump is a bully and when your lunch money is stolen enough, it’s better to befriend the bully. I don’t believe Harris and many known Radicals will stand back and let Boden do his thing.... whatever that is because I don’t really know. He sounds very political saying the right things- wear a mask til Han and save 100k lives. We can beat racism together, there is nothing we can’t do- together. It just sounds like a 47 year politician and I honestly can’t say I believe it.
I know the last 3 years wasn’t World War 3 as many expected and all the celebrities didn’t move out of the USA as they claimed.
I’ll end with- yes, Trumps an ass.
Wait, you’re worried about corruption in government and so you prefer Trump?
And yes, Biden is right about masks. If 95% of the country wore masks when not able to fully socially distance, then an estimated 95,000 lives would be saved over the next three months, according to IHME.
So here you are deriding something Biden says as ridiculous when he’s just quoting the experts. But yet you prefer Trump, whose actions have cost thousands of lives, and who lies through his teeth. Unreal, frankly.
So what exactly has trump done that is been good in the past four years? Serious question.
Here is 1-
I like the wall
I said it
Flame me.
I can appreciate that you have a position on immigration even if I disagree with Trump’s approach. Unfortunately only a few new miles of wall have actually been built. The majority of what Trump claims as “wall†is actually repairs and fortifications to existing border fences and barriers. And Mexico definitely hasn’t paid for it. Major campaign promise unfulfilled.
So what exactly has trump done that is been good in the past four years? Serious question.
Here is 1-
I like the wall
I said it
Flame me.
Yes, but he hasn’t built a wall, and even if he had it would be an inefficient and ineffective use of money and resources. He’s replaced some bits of old wall, and used DoD money to do it. And, by the way, the Democratic Party is not in favor of open borders, despite what you may have heard.
If you really want to give Trump credit on this issue, as I’ve done in the past, it’s that he managed to persuade Mexico to better police its own southern border. You might even have been able to claim that Mexico paid for that too. But you missed the mark there.
Not gonna flame, but whatever small successes you see (and the wall is really, really small ;), you are willfully blind to the monumental failures of this presidency. Re-election campaigns are ALWAYS about the incumbent, and this one will go down in history.
Economics - worse than Hoover in 1932 Poor governance - worse than Johnson in 1868 Corruption - worse than Nixon in 1974 Ideological exhaustion - worse than Carter in 1980 Division - Buchanan in 1860 (okay, not worse, the Civil War ensued) Incompetence - His COVID response is in a catastrophic class of it's own, but could be compared with the way Bush mishandled the Iraq War Executive Overreach - Worse than Obama in 2012! (there, I said it ;). Deficit - Also in a class of his own (comparison with Bush/Obama, but on steroids)
This are just a few of the low points. There are so many. He will rank with the very worst single-term presidents ever. Hats off to the many Republicans I know who oppose him with the goal of salvaging whatever is left of their party after Trumpism.
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden sucks. I can't remember a less inspiring Democratic Party candidate except maybe Dukakis. I am looking forward to voting for him.
I appreciate you being part of the discussion in forthcoming way. I can't be easy.
I see Trump as a threat to our country and no piece of policy is important enough for me to endorse a threat to our country.
This. Biden is, frankly, pretty mediocre, and that's being generous. He was terrible in the debate, but many still seem to think he won by default. But as you say, he is not the threat to the fabric of our society and our institutions that Trump is. It's not a contest.
Many, like me, disagree. We have nothing but threats, just of various kinds. Hillary was an entirely different kind of threat and because of that, I wanted nothing to do with her so Trump got my vote in 2016. I wasn’t a Trump lover, not am now. I voted for Trump then for many reasons people are voting Biden now.
We know who Trump is.... choose the devil you know it the devil you don’t know. Understand my concern isn’t as much with Biden as it is the surrounding people who I believe will sway him. I don’t think Biden is strong enough to fight the corruption in our government. Trump is a bully and when your lunch money is stolen enough, it’s better to befriend the bully. I don’t believe Harris and many known Radicals will stand back and let Boden do his thing.... whatever that is because I don’t really know. He sounds very political saying the right things- wear a mask til Han and save 100k lives. We can beat racism together, there is nothing we can’t do- together. It just sounds like a 47 year politician and I honestly can’t say I believe it.
I know the last 3 years wasn’t World War 3 as many expected and all the celebrities didn’t move out of the USA as they claimed.
I’ll end with- yes, Trumps an ass.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
You’re brave to be in this forum taking your position. You’ll get hammered nonstop and called every name in the book from this crowd. The very crowd who lambast Trump for attacking the opposition will attack you unabashedly. Ironic.
I’m all in for Biden but I’m a true ‘unaffiliated’ voter. My best friend, who I’ve been best buds with since I was 9yrs old, with whom I spend the most time other than my wife, is a Trump voter. Not a ‘Trumpster all in love with Trump’ voter but more like you. We discuss the topic but he’s where he is and I’m where I am. Doesn’t matter. He’s still my best friend who would do anything for my wife and kids, and I’m still The Godfather to his daughter. Doesn’t matter. We disagree.
He’s well educated, ex military, works in the DoD world in a meaningful position and I love and respect him.
I wish the majority of this forum could just understand others disagree and there no need to vilify anyone who has an opposing view. (They’ll call it ‘interest in your position’, but that’s not heat they mean).
Anyway, I disagree with your choice but respect your decision either way.
I feel that the world has altered over time and much that is generally accepted today once wasn’t. Heck, in 1980 if someone had a tattoo they were judged. We would have chosen a Presidential candidate who was married and never divorced. It’s just not the same world anymore.
Did you vote in 1980?
If not, did you read up on that election? Who was the winner? Was he ever divorced?
Like Grifter Twump, you just stated a falsehood.
I was too young to vote. Far too young then.
So, forgive me if my idea of “family values†and character was a poor example. I just don’t believe that matters as much now. It may with the older voters. Hell, the 21 year olds think Biden quotes are Trump quotes and don’t know what the civil war is .... according to videos of random people on California beaches. I don’t think they vote today the same as people did in 1980. That’s my point. Sorry for the error if I made one.
Enjoy being young. "Jane Wyman was right" was a campaign button in the 80s referencing Reagan's first wife. But I completely agree about your point. Gary Hart is probably still shaking his head about what people have let Trump slide on, and maybe we think so little of all politicians that this is the new normal. I remember in 2016 when the "Locker Room talk" defense came up and they interviewed couples at a campaign stop. The wife would say the locker room defense about Trump and then the interviewer would ask her if her husband spoke like that in the locker room? The look from both parties was of complete shock from the insult. Sad we no longer expect to have political candidates as respectable as our friends and neighbors. ------------------------------ The first time man split the atom was when the atom tried to hold Jens Voigt's wheel, but cracked.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden sucks. I can't remember a less inspiring Democratic Party candidate except maybe Dukakis. I am looking forward to voting for him.
I appreciate you being part of the discussion in forthcoming way. I can't be easy.
I see Trump as a threat to our country and no piece of policy is important enough for me to endorse a threat to our country.
This. Biden is, frankly, pretty mediocre, and that's being generous. He was terrible in the debate, but many still seem to think he won by default. But as you say, he is not the threat to the fabric of our society and our institutions that Trump is. It's not a contest.
Many, like me, disagree. We have nothing but threats, just of various kinds. Hillary was an entirely different kind of threat and because of that, I wanted nothing to do with her so Trump got my vote in 2016. I wasn’t a Trump lover, not am now. I voted for Trump then for many reasons people are voting Biden now.
We know who Trump is.... choose the devil you know it the devil you don’t know. Understand my concern isn’t as much with Biden as it is the surrounding people who I believe will sway him. I don’t think Biden is strong enough to fight the corruption in our government. Trump is a bully and when your lunch money is stolen enough, it’s better to befriend the bully. I don’t believe Harris and many known Radicals will stand back and let Boden do his thing.... whatever that is because I don’t really know. He sounds very political saying the right things- wear a mask til Han and save 100k lives. We can beat racism together, there is nothing we can’t do- together. It just sounds like a 47 year politician and I honestly can’t say I believe it.
I know the last 3 years wasn’t World War 3 as many expected and all the celebrities didn’t move out of the USA as they claimed.
I’ll end with- yes, Trumps an ass.
Wait, you’re worried about corruption in government and so you prefer Trump?
And yes, Biden is right about masks. If 95% of the country wore masks when not able to fully socially distance, then an estimated 95,000 lives would be saved over the next three months, according to IHME.
So here you are deriding something Biden says as ridiculous when he’s just quoting the experts. But yet you prefer Trump, whose actions have cost thousands of lives, and who lies through his teeth. Unreal, frankly.
I said I prefer to choose the devil I know, not the devil I don’t. I didn’t say Trump wasn’t corrupt as many of the politicians also are. I also didn’t say what Biden says was ridiculous, or untrue. I know the 100k lives by Jan is a prediction by experts. I fact checked it.
I just said he sounds like a politician, which he is- a 47 career politician. I just don’t get the feeling he is honest as people think.
This is MY opinion. It’s not to be judged or argued, so don’t try. You know... how you meet someone for the first time and there is something about them that you just can’t figure out, but it bothers you. That’s the feeling I get. Again, don’t compare it to Trump or argue this at all. It’s my opinion and I’m sharing. That is all.
So what exactly has trump done that is been good in the past four years? Serious question.
Here is 1-
I like the wall
I said it
Flame me.
Yes, but he hasn’t built a wall, and even if he had it would be an inefficient and ineffective use of money and resources. He’s replaced some bits of old wall, and used DoD money to do it. And, by the way, the Democratic Party is not in favor of open borders, despite what you may have heard.
If you really want to give Trump credit on this issue, as I’ve done in the past, it’s that he managed to persuade Mexico to better police its own southern border. You might even have been able to claim that Mexico paid for that too. But you missed the mark there.
I didn’t miss the mark when I didn’t claim anything.
It’s a start... maybe that will appease you.
Don’t think Mexico didn’t pay. They don’t have to pay directly, but maybe the new trade deal is part of the way of getting some revenue.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
Look into the Democrats and their involvement with Russia.
When there is BS on both sides for a given topic, I ignore that as a basis in decision making.
I feel that the world has altered over time and much that is generally accepted today once wasn’t. Heck, in 1980 if someone had a tattoo they were judged. We would have chosen a Presidential candidate who was married and never divorced. It’s just not the same world anymore.
Did you vote in 1980?
If not, did you read up on that election? Who was the winner? Was he ever divorced?
Like Grifter Twump, you just stated a falsehood.
I was too young to vote. Far too young then.
So, forgive me if my idea of “family values†and character was a poor example. I just don’t believe that matters as much now. It may with the older voters. Hell, the 21 year olds think Biden quotes are Trump quotes and don’t know what the civil war is .... according to videos of random people on California beaches. I don’t think they vote today the same as people did in 1980. That’s my point. Sorry for the error if I made one.
Enjoy being young. "Jane Wyman was right" was a campaign button in the 80s referencing Reagan's first wife. But I completely agree about your point. Gary Hart is probably still shaking his head about what people have let Trump slide on, and maybe we think so little of all politicians that this is the new normal. I remember in 2016 when the "Locker Room talk" defense came up and they interviewed couples at a campaign stop. The wife would say the locker room defense about Trump and then the interviewer would ask her if her husband spoke like that in the locker room? The look from both parties was of complete shock from the insult. Sad we no longer expect to have political candidates as respectable as our friends and neighbors.
I will admit, I let Trump slide on the locker room talk. I did the research. I heard the recordings. He spoke of some woman who wanted to go shopping for furniture and he took her shopping and how he was going at her hard... making a move... or something like that, as well as the grab em in the pussy comment. At the end of the day, it’s pitiful. Although, if anyone recorded everything I said when I thought it was private guy talk, I’m sure it would also be taken pretty negatively. As most people who are not planning to go into politics. Only difference if you were going into politics, it would have been better hidden. Regardless, the stuff happens. I still can’t believe Biden’s comment of poor kids just as bright kids, or something like that, didn’t hurt him as badly as Trumps locker room talk did.
Thx for the insight on The 80’s campaign. That’s a pretty low blow. Geez.
You’re brave to be in this forum taking your position. You’ll get hammered nonstop and called every name in the book from this crowd. The very crowd who lambast Trump for attacking the opposition will attack you unabashedly. Ironic.
I’m all in for Biden but I’m a true ‘unaffiliated’ voter. My best friend, who I’ve been best buds with since I was 9yrs old, with whom I spend the most time other than my wife, is a Trump voter. Not a ‘Trumpster all in love with Trump’ voter but more like you. We discuss the topic but he’s where he is and I’m where I am. Doesn’t matter. He’s still my best friend who would do anything for my wife and kids, and I’m still The Godfather to his daughter. Doesn’t matter. We disagree.
He’s well educated, ex military, works in the DoD world in a meaningful position and I love and respect him.
I wish the majority of this forum could just understand others disagree and there no need to vilify anyone who has an opposing view. (They’ll call it ‘interest in your position’, but that’s not heat they mean).
Anyway, I disagree with your choice but respect your decision either way.
Thank you. You and your friend are similar to a friend and I. Sharing views should be healthy and a way to share differing information as we all collect our I formation from different places and differing perspectives. The Information shouldn’t be judged and ridiculed. It should be shared. Each person has the right to form an opinion from that Information.
I have a friend who now has his own medical practice. He hated Trump like nobody could. He said he is voting on health care policy and economy as he is choosing what is best for his business. Crazy that means he may go Trump and he hates the guy.
We will also be friends forever. I’ve known him for over 30 years.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
God you are boring. I bet you are this boring in Real life too
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
Look into the Democrats and their involvement with Russia.
When there is BS on both sides for a given topic, I ignore that as a basis in decision making.
Their involvement? You are saying Russia hacking and leaking their emails, you think the Democrats wanted that?
Anyway, I disagree with your choice but respect your decision either way.
It's one thing to respect someone's view in politics. I am a member of the Conservative party of Canada but have a lot of respect for our Prime Minister and for people who support him.
However, asking people to respect those who support a man with the views that Trump holds is just not something I am prepared to do. If someone said I am Republican but will not support Trump because he has absolutely nothing in common with the Party, then they would get respect.
Supporting someone who has openly disparaged his own intelligence agency, soldiers, women, immigrants etc., and is vain, insecure, has no intellectual curiosity and exhibits every single personal characteristic in a man that I despise, is just not going to happen. That has nothing to do with being open minded, it means taking a stand that character in a President matters.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
God you are boring. I bet you are this boring in Real life too
I mean, I am cool with being boring if it means caring about the country. But I guess that is just one of our many differences.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
Look into the Democrats and their involvement with Russia.
When there is BS on both sides for a given topic, I ignore that as a basis in decision making.
Their involvement? You are saying Russia hacking and leaking their emails, you think the Democrats wanted that?
I said that I ignore the topic when there is BS on both sides
So, I’m not taking a stand regarding anything with Russia.
Fair enough. I won’t disparage those who vote differently than I do. I have my reasons and I don’t believe the character of a voter reflects the politician for whom they vote. Lots of folks voted for Bill. That doesn’t mean they’re womanizing douchebags whose wife attacks the women assaulted. They had their reasons for their vote that dismissed the teenage libido and the HRC aggressive attacks on the victims.
They had their reasons. It’s more complex than Trumps character. Again, I’m in for Biden/Kamala. I split my vote for Obama.
I’m not willing to throw all whose vote opposite to me into a sewer.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
Look into the Democrats and their involvement with Russia.
When there is BS on both sides for a given topic, I ignore that as a basis in decision making.
Their involvement? You are saying Russia hacking and leaking their emails, you think the Democrats wanted that?
I said that I ignore the topic when there is BS on both sides
So, I’m not taking a stand regarding anything with Russia.
So you just pretend their is not objective reality? Seriously?
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden sucks. I can't remember a less inspiring Democratic Party candidate except maybe Dukakis. I am looking forward to voting for him.
I appreciate you being part of the discussion in forthcoming way. I can't be easy.
I see Trump as a threat to our country and no piece of policy is important enough for me to endorse a threat to our country.
This. Biden is, frankly, pretty mediocre, and that's being generous. He was terrible in the debate, but many still seem to think he won by default. But as you say, he is not the threat to the fabric of our society and our institutions that Trump is. It's not a contest.
Many, like me, disagree. We have nothing but threats, just of various kinds. Hillary was an entirely different kind of threat and because of that, I wanted nothing to do with her so Trump got my vote in 2016. I wasn’t a Trump lover, not am now. I voted for Trump then for many reasons people are voting Biden now.
We know who Trump is.... choose the devil you know it the devil you don’t know. Understand my concern isn’t as much with Biden as it is the surrounding people who I believe will sway him. I don’t think Biden is strong enough to fight the corruption in our government. Trump is a bully and when your lunch money is stolen enough, it’s better to befriend the bully. I don’t believe Harris and many known Radicals will stand back and let Boden do his thing.... whatever that is because I don’t really know. He sounds very political saying the right things- wear a mask til Han and save 100k lives. We can beat racism together, there is nothing we can’t do- together. It just sounds like a 47 year politician and I honestly can’t say I believe it.
I know the last 3 years wasn’t World War 3 as many expected and all the celebrities didn’t move out of the USA as they claimed.
I’ll end with- yes, Trumps an ass.
Wait, you’re worried about corruption in government and so you prefer Trump?
And yes, Biden is right about masks. If 95% of the country wore masks when not able to fully socially distance, then an estimated 95,000 lives would be saved over the next three months, according to IHME.
So here you are deriding something Biden says as ridiculous when he’s just quoting the experts. But yet you prefer Trump, whose actions have cost thousands of lives, and who lies through his teeth. Unreal, frankly.
I said I prefer to choose the devil I know, not the devil I don’t. I didn’t say Trump wasn’t corrupt as many of the politicians also are. I also didn’t say what Biden says was ridiculous, or untrue. I know the 100k lives by Jan is a prediction by experts. I fact checked it.
I just said he sounds like a politician, which he is- a 47 career politician. I just don’t get the feeling he is honest as people think.
This is MY opinion. It’s not to be judged or argued, so don’t try. You know... how you meet someone for the first time and there is something about them that you just can’t figure out, but it bothers you. That’s the feeling I get. Again, don’t compare it to Trump or argue this at all. It’s my opinion and I’m sharing. That is all.
Honestly I'm glad you're sharing your views, because so many Trump supporters refuse to do so in any calm, rational way, and contrary to JD21's prediction I don't see anyone calling you names (yet!).
But just to come back to Biden and masks. You agree that what he said was the opinion of experts, and if they are right, it would save about 100,000 American lives, and yet you think he's being "political" by passing on that information?!
In contrast, Trump knew in January that COVID was a dangerous virus that could spread via airborne particles, but yet didn't share that with the public and instead said there was nothing to worry about. Also, recall in March Trump admitted on camera that he didn't want the cruise ship with COVID patients to dock at a US port because it would push the US numbers up, and that would make him look bad. There was also a White House directive in February that those in the West Wing should not put on the masks they had been sent because "it would not be a good look."
So, to recap, Trump has willing and knowingly risked American lives for his political benefit (and still does so with his rallies, ensuring he's socially distanced but not requiring his supporters to wear masks or keep apart), while Biden is doing something he believes will save lives, and you think BIDEN is the one being political?!! Holy shit. I mean, really think about what you're saying for a moment.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
God you are boring. I bet you are this boring in Real life too
I mean, I am cool with being boring if it means caring about the country. But I guess that is just one of our many differences.
A grateful nation thanks you for all your efforts here.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
God you are boring. I bet you are this boring in Real life too
I mean, I am cool with being boring if it means caring about the country. But I guess that is just one of our many differences.
A grateful nation thanks you for all your efforts here.
So all the respected career professionals who testified in the impeachment investigation were lying, as was Sondland who was a Trump groupie for a while before realizing he'd better not lie under oath and go down like Michael Cohen?
You probably believe everything that comes out of Devin Nunes' mouth too.
The saddest part of that whole thing was watching Republicans in congress lie shamelessly for Trump and their own political careers. All apart from Mitt Romney, who was the only one with a spine.
You're going to realize one day how much you were on the wrong side of history. I wonder if you'll ever admit it.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
God you are boring. I bet you are this boring in Real life too
I mean, I am cool with being boring if it means caring about the country. But I guess that is just one of our many differences.
A grateful nation thanks you for all your efforts here.
So all the respected career professionals who testified in the impeachment investigation were lying, as was Sondland who was a Trump groupie for a while before realizing he'd better not lie under oath and go down like Michael Cohen?
You probably believe everything that comes out of Devin Nunes' mouth too.
The saddest part of that whole thing was watching Republicans in congress lie shamelessly for Trump and their own political careers. All apart from Mitt Romney, who was the only one with a spine.
You're going to realize one day how much you were on the wrong side of history. I wonder if you'll ever admit it.
And after all your efforts here too. Hours and hours posting breathless speculation one after the other. What a shame they won’t even bring up the subject of impeachment. Dropped it 6 minutes after the vote. An entire convention and the first debate without the word coming out of a single Dem mouth.
It’s OK. The country still really needs you to flog covid and racism. Maybe unearth a sleazy sex party witness before the SCJ hearing.
Fabrics are being pulled from republic. And it’s Trump and the pubs who are doing it.
The country needs you Kay. Please keep investigating and posting
Again....and again......and again...,. And (oh god please no) again.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
Look into the Democrats and their involvement with Russia.
When there is BS on both sides for a given topic, I ignore that as a basis in decision making.
Their involvement? You are saying Russia hacking and leaking their emails, you think the Democrats wanted that?
I said that I ignore the topic when there is BS on both sides
So, I’m not taking a stand regarding anything with Russia.
So you just pretend their is not objective reality? Seriously?
I feel the topic is something we will never ultimately know the real truth. Therefore it’s something I don’t consider as a weight of my decision to vote.
You can vary your decision of course. It’s a personal choice.
So, to recap, Trump has willing and knowingly risked American lives for his political benefit (and still does so with his rallies, ensuring he's socially distanced but not requiring his supporters to wear masks or keep apart), while Biden is doing something he believes will save lives, and you think BIDEN is the one being political?!! Holy shit. I mean, really think about what you're saying for a moment.
In advance I fully admit to this being an extreme position - but looking at the demographics of the victims of COVID - I think it reasonable to say that Trumps 'efforts' amount to genocide.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
Look into the Democrats and their involvement with Russia.
When there is BS on both sides for a given topic, I ignore that as a basis in decision making.
Their involvement? You are saying Russia hacking and leaking their emails, you think the Democrats wanted that?
I said that I ignore the topic when there is BS on both sides
So, I’m not taking a stand regarding anything with Russia.
So you just pretend their is not objective reality? Seriously?
I feel the topic is something we will never ultimately know the real truth. Therefore it’s something I don’t consider as a weight of my decision to vote.
You can vary your decision of course. It’s a personal choice.
However, I wanted to reply. Your post has much merit and an interesting view. Although, I would like to believe the President has greater responsibility than Macaroni.
Take an obvious issue of slavery. Do you think people forgot Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves? Was that Macaroni?
There of course are major things that change our lives forever and other policies and laws that may alter slightly and go unnoticed. It’s human nature to have limited memories. Heck, people have mostly forgotten that Covid-19 shut down in March/April was so hospitals could keep up with sick people. Now, we are not wanting people to get sick at all.
The difference between your analogy of the President compared to the cheating wife with a drug problem is that a husband comes home to and deals with the wife personally on a daily basis. Citizens who vote don’t share a home, bedroom, or a meal with the President. All you have to do is turn off the tv and avoid politics on Facebook, or this forum, and you can live your life with no ill effect that the President has poor character. This doesn’t mean a voter is a supporter of poor character or that a voter suddenly also has the identical character of someone they are voting for.
Character is a personal matter. You can choose to be an asshole or not. You don't have to vote on the premise of someone being an asshole or not.
I recall a movie, Patch Adams. The guy said if he was dying and the best surgeon was an asshole. He would choose the asshole.
This logic is why many people ignore Trumps character.
Now, if we had better candidates, that would change everything. Although, we don’t.
You may not like the source, but Daniel Dale is a good fact checker and points out any false or misleading statements by both candidates.
Watch it and then let us know what you think about the two candidates and how many lies each told. No lying allowed!
I’ll watch it. However, CNN leans Democrat. I did a quick google search “Daniel Dale fact check Trumpâ€. Tons of hits. Then I googled “Daniel Dale fact check Bidenâ€. One mesely hit on the Green New Deal.
Again, I recorded the debate. I watched and paused at moments. Did my own fact checking. I found bunches of things that wasn’t true from Biden.
They are both liars. People have to not kid themselves that they are voting for honest Joe. A politician lies when his lips are moving. 47 year politician here. It’s not just Trump.
I watched the beginning with Daniel Dale. Not impressed.
Seriously. People need to do their own research and fact checking. The media is shit. Almost all media. I honestly don’t know of one really good station anymore. There is a reason Elon Musk plans to start a website to rate reporters.
Here is a quick article on manufacturing jobs. Media will claim Trump to be liar when stats are cited differently. Fact is, he didn’t lie- numbers were up, but they want to account for the numbers different than Trump. Regardless, to me, a liar is saying numbers are up when they are down. That’s not the case here. The numbers just are not as big as Trump claimed by the media’s methodology of stats.
Trump didn’t lie about Obama/ Biden manufacturing numbers. He said things were so bad after the recession, of course things go up easily like turning on a light switch. So, it’s fair to say Trump/ Pence performance on manufacturing exceeded Obama/Biden.
Why were you not impressed? He was exactly accurate on the timing and number of manufacturing jobs this country has, giving Trump credit that they went up under his watch before the pandemic, but to August 2020 they are down.
It's clear from this post and the one following, that nothing will sway you. Trump's efforts to take on big pharma have led to nothing (his efforts to get hospitals to be more transparent with their pricing has not had any impact on consumers' ability to 'shop around' or get better deals).
If all you want from Trump in his next for years is for him to take on pharmaceutical companies and reduce drug costs, that's a pretty low ask of the president of the United States. I thought you'd want a bit more than that.
It's pretty ironic your support is based on expectations in the healthcare industry, when you're supporting the party and president that has promised to repeal and replace the ACA for nearly a decade and STILL have not verbalized, much less publicized, and alternative. Trump keeps promising a cheaper and better alternative. Do you have ANY faith in him delivering on that promise? Please answer honestly.
This conversation is why there is no reason for Biden to chase the votes of self-proclaimed disenchanted Republicans. If they want to vote for Biden great. But their requirements for that to happen are so over the top that the only way for Biden to do it is to take on the positions of an ultra-conservative Republican. At some point on here a while back someone actually said that if the Democrats nominated Kasich they would vote for him, well great, but that ain't gonna happen.
He says he is open to voting for Biden but just can't because Biden misstated that one thing and called Trump a mean name. Meanwhile Trump is confirmed to have lied 817 times in one sentence and has spent 5 years acting like a petulant toddler.
I'd be pissed if Biden spent any time at all trying to convince jharris to vote for him.
First off, I am far from ultra-conservative. So, chasing ultra-conservatives isn’t what ANY Democrat should do, nor should a Republican chase a far lefts vote. Regardless, with California, New York, and a Florida being Democrat states and the electoral votes those states retain, its surprising anyone other than Democrat could ever win. It’s like starting an Ironman and letting a dude skip the swim and start at mile 30 on the bike. Lol
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden was my 4th choice among the Democrats.
ETA - I did not say you were ultra-conservative. I don't know your positions well enough to say that. What I said is that you want Biden to take on ultra-conservative positions in order to win your vote. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Character is a personal matter. You can choose to be an asshole or not. You don't have to vote on the premise of someone being an asshole or not.
I recall a movie, Patch Adams. The guy said if he was dying and the best surgeon was an asshole. He would choose the asshole.
This logic is why many people ignore Trumps character.
Now, if we had better candidates, that would change everything. Although, we don’t.
There's a big difference between choosing a surgeon and choosing a President . . . not being an asshole is a major plus re a presidential candidate . . . not so much in a surgeon.
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden sucks. I can't remember a less inspiring Democratic Party candidate except maybe Dukakis. I am looking forward to voting for him.
I appreciate you being part of the discussion in forthcoming way. I can't be easy.
I see Trump as a threat to our country and no piece of policy is important enough for me to endorse a threat to our country.
This. Biden is, frankly, pretty mediocre, and that's being generous. He was terrible in the debate, but many still seem to think he won by default. But as you say, he is not the threat to the fabric of our society and our institutions that Trump is. It's not a contest.
Many, like me, disagree. We have nothing but threats, just of various kinds. Hillary was an entirely different kind of threat and because of that, I wanted nothing to do with her so Trump got my vote in 2016. I wasn’t a Trump lover, not am now. I voted for Trump then for many reasons people are voting Biden now.
We know who Trump is.... choose the devil you know it the devil you don’t know. Understand my concern isn’t as much with Biden as it is the surrounding people who I believe will sway him. I don’t think Biden is strong enough to fight the corruption in our government. Trump is a bully and when your lunch money is stolen enough, it’s better to befriend the bully. I don’t believe Harris and many known Radicals will stand back and let Boden do his thing.... whatever that is because I don’t really know. He sounds very political saying the right things- wear a mask til Han and save 100k lives. We can beat racism together, there is nothing we can’t do- together. It just sounds like a 47 year politician and I honestly can’t say I believe it.
I know the last 3 years wasn’t World War 3 as many expected and all the celebrities didn’t move out of the USA as they claimed.
I’ll end with- yes, Trumps an ass.
Wait, you’re worried about corruption in government and so you prefer Trump?
And yes, Biden is right about masks. If 95% of the country wore masks when not able to fully socially distance, then an estimated 95,000 lives would be saved over the next three months, according to IHME.
So here you are deriding something Biden says as ridiculous when he’s just quoting the experts. But yet you prefer Trump, whose actions have cost thousands of lives, and who lies through his teeth. Unreal, frankly.
I said I prefer to choose the devil I know, not the devil I don’t. I didn’t say Trump wasn’t corrupt as many of the politicians also are. I also didn’t say what Biden says was ridiculous, or untrue. I know the 100k lives by Jan is a prediction by experts. I fact checked it.
I just said he sounds like a politician, which he is- a 47 career politician. I just don’t get the feeling he is honest as people think.
This is MY opinion. It’s not to be judged or argued, so don’t try. You know... how you meet someone for the first time and there is something about them that you just can’t figure out, but it bothers you. That’s the feeling I get. Again, don’t compare it to Trump or argue this at all. It’s my opinion and I’m sharing. That is all.
Honestly I'm glad you're sharing your views, because so many Trump supporters refuse to do so in any calm, rational way, and contrary to JD21's prediction I don't see anyone calling you names (yet!).
But just to come back to Biden and masks. You agree that what he said was the opinion of experts, and if they are right, it would save about 100,000 American lives, and yet you think he's being "political" by passing on that information?!
In contrast, Trump knew in January that COVID was a dangerous virus that could spread via airborne particles, but yet didn't share that with the public and instead said there was nothing to worry about. Also, recall in March Trump admitted on camera that he didn't want the cruise ship with COVID patients to dock at a US port because it would push the US numbers up, and that would make him look bad. There was also a White House directive in February that those in the West Wing should not put on the masks they had been sent because "it would not be a good look."
So, to recap, Trump has willing and knowingly risked American lives for his political benefit (and still does so with his rallies, ensuring he's socially distanced but not requiring his supporters to wear masks or keep apart), while Biden is doing something he believes will save lives, and you think BIDEN is the one being political?!! Holy shit. I mean, really think about what you're saying for a moment.
You’re still not getting it. My comment isn’t about masks. Personally I think cloth masks are stupid, but I have realized I live a much more isolated life than I thought I did, so someone else wearing a cloth mask compared to me could make a big difference. That’s a different topic though.
This comment was about Joe being more of a Politician. He doesn’t seem to take a solid stance. He makes you feel nice and cozy without really directly answering a question. He is a classic lifetime Politician. He rubs me the wrong way. I can’t read his personality.
Trump is an ass. I can read that just fine.
As people have claimed ... it’s ok that Biden may become President and do absolutely nothing and maybe job numbers and the stock market will drop. It’s ok because he “cares†about you.
You can vote this way of you choose. I don’t judge. I just choose not to vote this way.
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden sucks. I can't remember a less inspiring Democratic Party candidate except maybe Dukakis. I am looking forward to voting for him.
I appreciate you being part of the discussion in forthcoming way. I can't be easy.
I see Trump as a threat to our country and no piece of policy is important enough for me to endorse a threat to our country.
This. Biden is, frankly, pretty mediocre, and that's being generous. He was terrible in the debate, but many still seem to think he won by default. But as you say, he is not the threat to the fabric of our society and our institutions that Trump is. It's not a contest.
Many, like me, disagree. We have nothing but threats, just of various kinds. Hillary was an entirely different kind of threat and because of that, I wanted nothing to do with her so Trump got my vote in 2016. I wasn’t a Trump lover, not am now. I voted for Trump then for many reasons people are voting Biden now.
We know who Trump is.... choose the devil you know it the devil you don’t know. Understand my concern isn’t as much with Biden as it is the surrounding people who I believe will sway him. I don’t think Biden is strong enough to fight the corruption in our government. Trump is a bully and when your lunch money is stolen enough, it’s better to befriend the bully. I don’t believe Harris and many known Radicals will stand back and let Boden do his thing.... whatever that is because I don’t really know. He sounds very political saying the right things- wear a mask til Han and save 100k lives. We can beat racism together, there is nothing we can’t do- together. It just sounds like a 47 year politician and I honestly can’t say I believe it.
I know the last 3 years wasn’t World War 3 as many expected and all the celebrities didn’t move out of the USA as they claimed.
I’ll end with- yes, Trumps an ass.
Wait, you’re worried about corruption in government and so you prefer Trump?
And yes, Biden is right about masks. If 95% of the country wore masks when not able to fully socially distance, then an estimated 95,000 lives would be saved over the next three months, according to IHME.
So here you are deriding something Biden says as ridiculous when he’s just quoting the experts. But yet you prefer Trump, whose actions have cost thousands of lives, and who lies through his teeth. Unreal, frankly.
I said I prefer to choose the devil I know, not the devil I don’t. I didn’t say Trump wasn’t corrupt as many of the politicians also are. I also didn’t say what Biden says was ridiculous, or untrue. I know the 100k lives by Jan is a prediction by experts. I fact checked it.
I just said he sounds like a politician, which he is- a 47 career politician. I just don’t get the feeling he is honest as people think.
This is MY opinion. It’s not to be judged or argued, so don’t try. You know... how you meet someone for the first time and there is something about them that you just can’t figure out, but it bothers you. That’s the feeling I get. Again, don’t compare it to Trump or argue this at all. It’s my opinion and I’m sharing. That is all.
Honestly I'm glad you're sharing your views, because so many Trump supporters refuse to do so in any calm, rational way, and contrary to JD21's prediction I don't see anyone calling you names (yet!).
But just to come back to Biden and masks. You agree that what he said was the opinion of experts, and if they are right, it would save about 100,000 American lives, and yet you think he's being "political" by passing on that information?!
In contrast, Trump knew in January that COVID was a dangerous virus that could spread via airborne particles, but yet didn't share that with the public and instead said there was nothing to worry about. Also, recall in March Trump admitted on camera that he didn't want the cruise ship with COVID patients to dock at a US port because it would push the US numbers up, and that would make him look bad. There was also a White House directive in February that those in the West Wing should not put on the masks they had been sent because "it would not be a good look."
So, to recap, Trump has willing and knowingly risked American lives for his political benefit (and still does so with his rallies, ensuring he's socially distanced but not requiring his supporters to wear masks or keep apart), while Biden is doing something he believes will save lives, and you think BIDEN is the one being political?!! Holy shit. I mean, really think about what you're saying for a moment.
You’re still not getting it. My comment isn’t about masks. Personally I think cloth masks are stupid, but I have realized I live a much more isolated life than I thought I did, so someone else wearing a cloth mask compared to me could make a big difference. That’s a different topic though.
This comment was about Joe being more of a Politician. He doesn’t seem to take a solid stance. He makes you feel nice and cozy without really directly answering a question. He is a classic lifetime Politician. He rubs me the wrong way. I can’t read his personality.
Trump is an ass. I can read that just fine.
As people have claimed ... it’s ok that Biden may become President and do absolutely nothing and maybe job numbers and the stock market will drop. It’s ok because he “cares†about you.
You can vote this way of you choose. I don’t judge. I just choose not to vote this way.
Yes I would like a president that cares about American lives during a global pandemic, but that's just me. Crazy, huh?
And, by the way, the best way to open up the economy is to protect people from each other and reduce the incidence of the virus. For example, we are doing a really good job of that in NY and NJ by always wearing masks and social distancing as much as we can, and next week I will start commuting into Manhattan on the train again. So please ditch the narrative that Democrats just want the economy shut down.
You may not like the source, but Daniel Dale is a good fact checker and points out any false or misleading statements by both candidates.
Watch it and then let us know what you think about the two candidates and how many lies each told. No lying allowed!
I’ll watch it. However, CNN leans Democrat. I did a quick google search “Daniel Dale fact check Trumpâ€. Tons of hits. Then I googled “Daniel Dale fact check Bidenâ€. One mesely hit on the Green New Deal.
Again, I recorded the debate. I watched and paused at moments. Did my own fact checking. I found bunches of things that wasn’t true from Biden.
They are both liars. People have to not kid themselves that they are voting for honest Joe. A politician lies when his lips are moving. 47 year politician here. It’s not just Trump.
I watched the beginning with Daniel Dale. Not impressed.
Seriously. People need to do their own research and fact checking. The media is shit. Almost all media. I honestly don’t know of one really good station anymore. There is a reason Elon Musk plans to start a website to rate reporters.
Here is a quick article on manufacturing jobs. Media will claim Trump to be liar when stats are cited differently. Fact is, he didn’t lie- numbers were up, but they want to account for the numbers different than Trump. Regardless, to me, a liar is saying numbers are up when they are down. That’s not the case here. The numbers just are not as big as Trump claimed by the media’s methodology of stats.
Trump didn’t lie about Obama/ Biden manufacturing numbers. He said things were so bad after the recession, of course things go up easily like turning on a light switch. So, it’s fair to say Trump/ Pence performance on manufacturing exceeded Obama/Biden.
Why were you not impressed? He was exactly accurate on the timing and number of manufacturing jobs this country has, giving Trump credit that they went up under his watch before the pandemic, but to August 2020 they are down.
It's clear from this post and the one following, that nothing will sway you. Trump's efforts to take on big pharma have led to nothing (his efforts to get hospitals to be more transparent with their pricing has not had any impact on consumers' ability to 'shop around' or get better deals).
If all you want from Trump in his next for years is for him to take on pharmaceutical companies and reduce drug costs, that's a pretty low ask of the president of the United States. I thought you'd want a bit more than that.
It's pretty ironic your support is based on expectations in the healthcare industry, when you're supporting the party and president that has promised to repeal and replace the ACA for nearly a decade and STILL have not verbalized, much less publicized, and alternative. Trump keeps promising a cheaper and better alternative. Do you have ANY faith in him delivering on that promise? Please answer honestly.
This conversation is why there is no reason for Biden to chase the votes of self-proclaimed disenchanted Republicans. If they want to vote for Biden great. But their requirements for that to happen are so over the top that the only way for Biden to do it is to take on the positions of an ultra-conservative Republican. At some point on here a while back someone actually said that if the Democrats nominated Kasich they would vote for him, well great, but that ain't gonna happen.
He says he is open to voting for Biden but just can't because Biden misstated that one thing and called Trump a mean name. Meanwhile Trump is confirmed to have lied 817 times in one sentence and has spent 5 years acting like a petulant toddler.
I'd be pissed if Biden spent any time at all trying to convince jharris to vote for him.
First off, I am far from ultra-conservative. So, chasing ultra-conservatives isn’t what ANY Democrat should do, nor should a Republican chase a far lefts vote. Regardless, with California, New York, and a Florida being Democrat states and the electoral votes those states retain, its surprising anyone other than Democrat could ever win. It’s like starting an Ironman and letting a dude skip the swim and start at mile 30 on the bike. Lol
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden was my 4th choice among the Democrats.
ETA - I did not say you were ultra-conservative. I don't know your positions well enough to say that. What I said is that you want Biden to take on ultra-conservative positions in order to win your vote.
With that said, what positions has Biden taken to win your vote?
So in summary you like trump because he has gotten stuff done. Specifically you like that he has built a wall?
Your friend likes him because of his health care policy?
I have to say it’s frustrating when people read into things and don’t read what is said.
My friend I mentioned said he is voting based on health care policy, but didn’t state he is voting for Trump. He is open to it if he believed health care policy would benefit his business even though he hates Trump.
Being that nobody apparently will google Trumps accomplishments... here is a link
This isn’t the same source I found a month ago when I read it thoroughly, but it looks like it’s legit. I have not read it. I’m posting only because you won’t look yourself. The wall is one of many.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
God you are boring. I bet you are this boring in Real life too
I mean, I am cool with being boring if it means caring about the country. But I guess that is just one of our many differences.
A grateful nation thanks you for all your efforts here.
So all the respected career professionals who testified in the impeachment investigation were lying, as was Sondland who was a Trump groupie for a while before realizing he'd better not lie under oath and go down like Michael Cohen?
You probably believe everything that comes out of Devin Nunes' mouth too.
The saddest part of that whole thing was watching Republicans in congress lie shamelessly for Trump and their own political careers. All apart from Mitt Romney, who was the only one with a spine.
You're going to realize one day how much you were on the wrong side of history. I wonder if you'll ever admit it.
And after all your efforts here too. Hours and hours posting breathless speculation one after the other. What a shame they won’t even bring up the subject of impeachment. Dropped it 6 minutes after the vote. An entire convention and the first debate without the word coming out of a single Dem mouth.
It’s OK. The country still really needs you to flog covid and racism. Maybe unearth a sleazy sex party witness before the SCJ hearing.
Fabrics are being pulled from republic. And it’s Trump and the pubs who are doing it.
The country needs you Kay. Please keep investigating and posting
Again....and again......and again...,. And (oh god please no) again.
Given how much you know about my posting history dating back to the Kav hearings, this means either
a) you are a really sad man who has trawled through ancient threads, or b) you're a previously banned poster who made a new account in April 2020
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden sucks. I can't remember a less inspiring Democratic Party candidate except maybe Dukakis. I am looking forward to voting for him.
I appreciate you being part of the discussion in forthcoming way. I can't be easy.
I see Trump as a threat to our country and no piece of policy is important enough for me to endorse a threat to our country.
This. Biden is, frankly, pretty mediocre, and that's being generous. He was terrible in the debate, but many still seem to think he won by default. But as you say, he is not the threat to the fabric of our society and our institutions that Trump is. It's not a contest.
Many, like me, disagree. We have nothing but threats, just of various kinds. Hillary was an entirely different kind of threat and because of that, I wanted nothing to do with her so Trump got my vote in 2016. I wasn’t a Trump lover, not am now. I voted for Trump then for many reasons people are voting Biden now.
We know who Trump is.... choose the devil you know it the devil you don’t know. Understand my concern isn’t as much with Biden as it is the surrounding people who I believe will sway him. I don’t think Biden is strong enough to fight the corruption in our government. Trump is a bully and when your lunch money is stolen enough, it’s better to befriend the bully. I don’t believe Harris and many known Radicals will stand back and let Boden do his thing.... whatever that is because I don’t really know. He sounds very political saying the right things- wear a mask til Han and save 100k lives. We can beat racism together, there is nothing we can’t do- together. It just sounds like a 47 year politician and I honestly can’t say I believe it.
I know the last 3 years wasn’t World War 3 as many expected and all the celebrities didn’t move out of the USA as they claimed.
I’ll end with- yes, Trumps an ass.
Wait, you’re worried about corruption in government and so you prefer Trump?
And yes, Biden is right about masks. If 95% of the country wore masks when not able to fully socially distance, then an estimated 95,000 lives would be saved over the next three months, according to IHME.
So here you are deriding something Biden says as ridiculous when he’s just quoting the experts. But yet you prefer Trump, whose actions have cost thousands of lives, and who lies through his teeth. Unreal, frankly.
I said I prefer to choose the devil I know, not the devil I don’t. I didn’t say Trump wasn’t corrupt as many of the politicians also are. I also didn’t say what Biden says was ridiculous, or untrue. I know the 100k lives by Jan is a prediction by experts. I fact checked it.
I just said he sounds like a politician, which he is- a 47 career politician. I just don’t get the feeling he is honest as people think.
This is MY opinion. It’s not to be judged or argued, so don’t try. You know... how you meet someone for the first time and there is something about them that you just can’t figure out, but it bothers you. That’s the feeling I get. Again, don’t compare it to Trump or argue this at all. It’s my opinion and I’m sharing. That is all.
Honestly I'm glad you're sharing your views, because so many Trump supporters refuse to do so in any calm, rational way, and contrary to JD21's prediction I don't see anyone calling you names (yet!).
But just to come back to Biden and masks. You agree that what he said was the opinion of experts, and if they are right, it would save about 100,000 American lives, and yet you think he's being "political" by passing on that information?!
In contrast, Trump knew in January that COVID was a dangerous virus that could spread via airborne particles, but yet didn't share that with the public and instead said there was nothing to worry about. Also, recall in March Trump admitted on camera that he didn't want the cruise ship with COVID patients to dock at a US port because it would push the US numbers up, and that would make him look bad. There was also a White House directive in February that those in the West Wing should not put on the masks they had been sent because "it would not be a good look."
So, to recap, Trump has willing and knowingly risked American lives for his political benefit (and still does so with his rallies, ensuring he's socially distanced but not requiring his supporters to wear masks or keep apart), while Biden is doing something he believes will save lives, and you think BIDEN is the one being political?!! Holy shit. I mean, really think about what you're saying for a moment.
You’re still not getting it. My comment isn’t about masks. Personally I think cloth masks are stupid, but I have realized I live a much more isolated life than I thought I did, so someone else wearing a cloth mask compared to me could make a big difference. That’s a different topic though.
This comment was about Joe being more of a Politician. He doesn’t seem to take a solid stance. He makes you feel nice and cozy without really directly answering a question. He is a classic lifetime Politician. He rubs me the wrong way. I can’t read his personality.
Trump is an ass. I can read that just fine.
As people have claimed ... it’s ok that Biden may become President and do absolutely nothing and maybe job numbers and the stock market will drop. It’s ok because he “cares†about you.
You can vote this way of you choose. I don’t judge. I just choose not to vote this way.
Yes I would like a president that cares about American lives during a global pandemic, but that's just me. Crazy, huh?
And, by the way, the best way to open up the economy is to protect people from each other and reduce the incidence of the virus. For example, we are doing a really good job of that in NY and NJ by always wearing masks and social distancing as much as we can, and next week I will start commuting into Manhattan on the train again. So please ditch the narrative that Democrats just want the economy shut down.
I’ve been nice the entire thread so far, but I’m going to have to firm up to get some thoughts across apparently.
Here it goes- Drop the chip on your shoulder and judgements!
First, I didn’t say anything about narrative of shut down so why bring it up.
Second, everywhere I go in Wisconsin everyone wears a mask. I wear a mask all the time. We have a state mask mandate.
Third, it’s the governors job and not the President to have people wear masks.
Four, the shut down is Wisconsin back in May was deemed unconstitutional. So, good luck with that anyway.
Five, you’re in New York? Seriously sitting on a soapbox with the majority of deaths in the country and a governor who sends COVID positive people into nursing homes.
Six, my stance on the pandemic is skewed compared to many as I would have chosen what Sweden did. So, you may not agree with me and that’s fine. Regardless, I still wear a mask!
Per 3, yes governors set state mask mandates but you really think the president’s stance, leadership, communication and example-setting is irrelevant?? I said in March that Trump should set an example with wearing masks and encouraging people to do so, and if he’d done that we might only have 50-100k dead Americans. And that’s the asshole you want to vote for? the one who doesn’t actually give a flying fuck that 200k Americans are dead as long as it helps him get re-elected and stay out of jail.
You may not like the source, but Daniel Dale is a good fact checker and points out any false or misleading statements by both candidates.
Watch it and then let us know what you think about the two candidates and how many lies each told. No lying allowed!
I’ll watch it. However, CNN leans Democrat. I did a quick google search “Daniel Dale fact check Trumpâ€. Tons of hits. Then I googled “Daniel Dale fact check Bidenâ€. One mesely hit on the Green New Deal.
Again, I recorded the debate. I watched and paused at moments. Did my own fact checking. I found bunches of things that wasn’t true from Biden.
They are both liars. People have to not kid themselves that they are voting for honest Joe. A politician lies when his lips are moving. 47 year politician here. It’s not just Trump.
I watched the beginning with Daniel Dale. Not impressed.
Seriously. People need to do their own research and fact checking. The media is shit. Almost all media. I honestly don’t know of one really good station anymore. There is a reason Elon Musk plans to start a website to rate reporters.
Here is a quick article on manufacturing jobs. Media will claim Trump to be liar when stats are cited differently. Fact is, he didn’t lie- numbers were up, but they want to account for the numbers different than Trump. Regardless, to me, a liar is saying numbers are up when they are down. That’s not the case here. The numbers just are not as big as Trump claimed by the media’s methodology of stats.
Trump didn’t lie about Obama/ Biden manufacturing numbers. He said things were so bad after the recession, of course things go up easily like turning on a light switch. So, it’s fair to say Trump/ Pence performance on manufacturing exceeded Obama/Biden.
Why were you not impressed? He was exactly accurate on the timing and number of manufacturing jobs this country has, giving Trump credit that they went up under his watch before the pandemic, but to August 2020 they are down.
It's clear from this post and the one following, that nothing will sway you. Trump's efforts to take on big pharma have led to nothing (his efforts to get hospitals to be more transparent with their pricing has not had any impact on consumers' ability to 'shop around' or get better deals).
If all you want from Trump in his next for years is for him to take on pharmaceutical companies and reduce drug costs, that's a pretty low ask of the president of the United States. I thought you'd want a bit more than that.
It's pretty ironic your support is based on expectations in the healthcare industry, when you're supporting the party and president that has promised to repeal and replace the ACA for nearly a decade and STILL have not verbalized, much less publicized, and alternative. Trump keeps promising a cheaper and better alternative. Do you have ANY faith in him delivering on that promise? Please answer honestly.
This conversation is why there is no reason for Biden to chase the votes of self-proclaimed disenchanted Republicans. If they want to vote for Biden great. But their requirements for that to happen are so over the top that the only way for Biden to do it is to take on the positions of an ultra-conservative Republican. At some point on here a while back someone actually said that if the Democrats nominated Kasich they would vote for him, well great, but that ain't gonna happen.
He says he is open to voting for Biden but just can't because Biden misstated that one thing and called Trump a mean name. Meanwhile Trump is confirmed to have lied 817 times in one sentence and has spent 5 years acting like a petulant toddler.
I'd be pissed if Biden spent any time at all trying to convince jharris to vote for him.
First off, I am far from ultra-conservative. So, chasing ultra-conservatives isn’t what ANY Democrat should do, nor should a Republican chase a far lefts vote. Regardless, with California, New York, and a Florida being Democrat states and the electoral votes those states retain, its surprising anyone other than Democrat could ever win. It’s like starting an Ironman and letting a dude skip the swim and start at mile 30 on the bike. Lol
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden was my 4th choice among the Democrats.
ETA - I did not say you were ultra-conservative. I don't know your positions well enough to say that. What I said is that you want Biden to take on ultra-conservative positions in order to win your vote.
With that said, what positions has Biden taken to win your vote?
1 - he acknowledges climate change is real 2 - he has come out in favor of a public option for health care - not the single payer universal care I would prefer, but it is better than the current 3 - against capital punishment 4 - has adopted push for renewable energy initiatives - understands it creates more jobs, does not eliminate them 5 - foreign policy difference with Trump are longer than my arm 6 - environmental conservation attitudes are the opposite of Trump 7 - he has a respect for the office of president and understands what that responsibility entails 8 - he literally cannot help but be better handling the racial divide in the country 9 - I prefer his tax policy stance to that of the GOP - though it will probably cost me money 10 - he will take a science based approach to COVID and not whatever the hell Trump bases his approach on 11 - favors decriminalizing marijuana - I still would prefer people not use it at will but I have no desire to pay to keep people in jail over it 12 - favors raising minimum wage 13 - favors making DACA permanent 14 - understands immigrants are a net positive 15 - will work to strengthen Social Security instead of actively working against it 16 - he is an old man who I'm not sure knows how to use Twitter
I honestly don't care all that much about abortion but if I did, it would be much closer to Biden's.
I said at the outset that I wished Biden had not run at all. I would have much preferred someone under 183 years of age on the ballot. And if you go back and look at my comments from the primaries I was not all that thrilled with anyone.
But I also realized the ideal president wasn't going to join the race because I have too many things I don't want public to run. And while I disagree very strongly with the policies put out by conservatives, I understand that not everyone is as enlightened as me and sometimes they take a different position. I live in Ohio and saw Kasich first hand. I disagreed with many of his stances but I think he is a good man.
Character matters to me. Donald Trump is a malignant narcissist. People really need to understand what that means and understand how dangerous that is. My brother is also a malignant narcissist. My dad didn't have $400,000,000 to give us though so you have never heard of him. But it makes me acutely aware of how dangerous it is to have that sort of person as president. And how dangerous they are in regular life. I just talked to another of his former clients tonight to try to help them fix what my brother has done. I take this seriously enough that in his latest disciplinary hearing I voluntarily testified against him. There is nothing too low for these guys. If you think the last 4 years have been rocky, you ain't seen nothing yet. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
God you are boring. I bet you are this boring in Real life too
I mean, I am cool with being boring if it means caring about the country. But I guess that is just one of our many differences.
A grateful nation thanks you for all your efforts here.
So all the respected career professionals who testified in the impeachment investigation were lying, as was Sondland who was a Trump groupie for a while before realizing he'd better not lie under oath and go down like Michael Cohen?
You probably believe everything that comes out of Devin Nunes' mouth too.
The saddest part of that whole thing was watching Republicans in congress lie shamelessly for Trump and their own political careers. All apart from Mitt Romney, who was the only one with a spine.
You're going to realize one day how much you were on the wrong side of history. I wonder if you'll ever admit it.
And after all your efforts here too. Hours and hours posting breathless speculation one after the other. What a shame they won’t even bring up the subject of impeachment. Dropped it 6 minutes after the vote. An entire convention and the first debate without the word coming out of a single Dem mouth.
It’s OK. The country still really needs you to flog covid and racism. Maybe unearth a sleazy sex party witness before the SCJ hearing.
Fabrics are being pulled from republic. And it’s Trump and the pubs who are doing it.
The country needs you Kay. Please keep investigating and posting
Again....and again......and again...,. And (oh god please no) again.
Given how much you know about my posting history dating back to the Kav hearings, this means either
a) you are a really sad man who has trawled through ancient threads, or b) you're a previously banned poster who made a new account in April 2020
Which is it?
Yes because it couldn’t be
C) read here without signing up for an account until April 2020
You do know you can access these forums without an account right???
Being that nobody apparently will google Trumps accomplishments... here is a link
I'm pretty sure that I have acknowledged that he (and all presidents) have a set of successes. What you are obviously failing to acknowledge is the depth of his failures. They are historic and somewhat unique in recent history, and it is a little hard to accept that you are open-minded when you miss how catastrophic these failings have been. There is no false equivalence that can cover this fact.
Your partisan priorities may be sufficient that you complete overlook these flaws in favor of policies that you support. That is fine, the question that we all have to ask is what level of failure would ever be sufficient to change your support. There is little doubt that if someone on the left was as flawed as Trump has been, your priorities would probably be very different.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
God you are boring. I bet you are this boring in Real life too
I mean, I am cool with being boring if it means caring about the country. But I guess that is just one of our many differences.
A grateful nation thanks you for all your efforts here.
So all the respected career professionals who testified in the impeachment investigation were lying, as was Sondland who was a Trump groupie for a while before realizing he'd better not lie under oath and go down like Michael Cohen?
You probably believe everything that comes out of Devin Nunes' mouth too.
The saddest part of that whole thing was watching Republicans in congress lie shamelessly for Trump and their own political careers. All apart from Mitt Romney, who was the only one with a spine.
You're going to realize one day how much you were on the wrong side of history. I wonder if you'll ever admit it.
And after all your efforts here too. Hours and hours posting breathless speculation one after the other. What a shame they won’t even bring up the subject of impeachment. Dropped it 6 minutes after the vote. An entire convention and the first debate without the word coming out of a single Dem mouth.
It’s OK. The country still really needs you to flog covid and racism. Maybe unearth a sleazy sex party witness before the SCJ hearing.
Fabrics are being pulled from republic. And it’s Trump and the pubs who are doing it.
The country needs you Kay. Please keep investigating and posting
Again....and again......and again...,. And (oh god please no) again.
Given how much you know about my posting history dating back to the Kav hearings, this means either
a) you are a really sad man who has trawled through ancient threads, or b) you're a previously banned poster who made a new account in April 2020
Which is it?
I’ve now read the way you are treating jharris and the way you are questioning and trying to intimidate me.
I find both uncivil which I understand is the only requirement for posting here. Despite your appearance otherwise you don’t control this forum.
I think I’ll but you on ignore for my own piece of mind.
Fair enough. I won’t disparage those who vote differently than I do. I have my reasons and I don’t believe the character of a voter reflects the politician for whom they vote.
Yes, you are right about that. A lot of people loved Clinton because of his abilities and policies, even though they opposed his personal actions.
I would not have voted for Clinton (either of them) because I thought they were very shady. I do think that everyone suffers when they vote for and support people like that. There have been a lot of very good U.S Presidents that have been respected for their character even if many disagreed with their policies (Reagan, Carter, Bush Sr., Bush Jr., Obama) and others like McCain, Romney that didn't win but people would have been far more accepting of as President, simply because they were decent men.
some people think a far greater threat to our country are things like generating a complete smear job against a SCJ nominee and a BS partisan impeachment process that costs this country months of focus and was so BS that less than a year later the people pushing it daily are too embarrassed to even mention it in their conventions or debates.
Not me, of course. I think they were both worthwhile uses of time and not at all a danger to the fabric of our society and institutions.
I think the president breaking the law to extort a country to help the president personally and spread Russian propaganda is a danger to the country. But I guess you are cool with that.
God you are boring. I bet you are this boring in Real life too
I mean, I am cool with being boring if it means caring about the country. But I guess that is just one of our many differences.
A grateful nation thanks you for all your efforts here.
So all the respected career professionals who testified in the impeachment investigation were lying, as was Sondland who was a Trump groupie for a while before realizing he'd better not lie under oath and go down like Michael Cohen?
You probably believe everything that comes out of Devin Nunes' mouth too.
The saddest part of that whole thing was watching Republicans in congress lie shamelessly for Trump and their own political careers. All apart from Mitt Romney, who was the only one with a spine.
You're going to realize one day how much you were on the wrong side of history. I wonder if you'll ever admit it.
And after all your efforts here too. Hours and hours posting breathless speculation one after the other. What a shame they won’t even bring up the subject of impeachment. Dropped it 6 minutes after the vote. An entire convention and the first debate without the word coming out of a single Dem mouth.
It’s OK. The country still really needs you to flog covid and racism. Maybe unearth a sleazy sex party witness before the SCJ hearing.
Fabrics are being pulled from republic. And it’s Trump and the pubs who are doing it.
The country needs you Kay. Please keep investigating and posting
Again....and again......and again...,. And (oh god please no) again.
Given how much you know about my posting history dating back to the Kav hearings, this means either
a) you are a really sad man who has trawled through ancient threads, or b) you're a previously banned poster who made a new account in April 2020
Which is it?
I’ve now read the way you are treating jharris and the way you are questioning and trying to intimidate me.
I find both uncivil which I understand is the only requirement for posting here. Despite your appearance otherwise you don’t control this forum.
I think I’ll but you on ignore for my own piece of mind.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
j p o wrote:
Biden was my 4th choice among the Democrats.
ETA - I did not say you were ultra-conservative. I don't know your positions well enough to say that. What I said is that you want Biden to take on ultra-conservative positions in order to win your vote.
jharris wrote:
With that said, what positions has Biden taken to win your vote?
j p o wrote:
1 - he acknowledges climate change is real 2 - he has come out in favor of a public option for health care - not the single payer universal care I would prefer, but it is better than the current 3 - against capital punishment 4 - has adopted push for renewable energy initiatives - understands it creates more jobs, does not eliminate them 5 - foreign policy difference with Trump are longer than my arm 6 - environmental conservation attitudes are the opposite of Trump 7 - he has a respect for the office of president and understands what that responsibility entails 8 - he literally cannot help but be better handling the racial divide in the country 9 - I prefer his tax policy stance to that of the GOP - though it will probably cost me money 10 - he will take a science based approach to COVID and not whatever the hell Trump bases his approach on 11 - favors decriminalizing marijuana - I still would prefer people not use it at will but I have no desire to pay to keep people in jail over it 12 - favors raising minimum wage 13 - favors making DACA permanent 14 - understands immigrants are a net positive 15 - will work to strengthen Social Security instead of actively working against it 16 - he is an old man who I'm not sure knows how to use Twitter
I honestly don't care all that much about abortion but if I did, it would be much closer to Biden's.
I said at the outset that I wished Biden had not run at all. I would have much preferred someone under 183 years of age on the ballot. And if you go back and look at my comments from the primaries I was not all that thrilled with anyone.
But I also realized the ideal president wasn't going to join the race because I have too many things I don't want public to run. And while I disagree very strongly with the policies put out by conservatives, I understand that not everyone is as enlightened as me and sometimes they take a different position. I live in Ohio and saw Kasich first hand. I disagreed with many of his stances but I think he is a good man.
Character matters to me. Donald Trump is a malignant narcissist. People really need to understand what that means and understand how dangerous that is. My brother is also a malignant narcissist. My dad didn't have $400,000,000 to give us though so you have never heard of him. But it makes me acutely aware of how dangerous it is to have that sort of person as president. And how dangerous they are in regular life. I just talked to another of his former clients tonight to try to help them fix what my brother has done. I take this seriously enough that in his latest disciplinary hearing I voluntarily testified against him. There is nothing too low for these guys. If you think the last 4 years have been rocky, you ain't seen nothing yet.
A lot of this ^^^^
And we have a huge fiscal deficit to heal, and recent history has shown that the Democratic party is the best party at fixing this.
I feel that the world has altered over time and much that is generally accepted today once wasn’t. Heck, in 1980 if someone had a tattoo they were judged. We would have chosen a Presidential candidate who was married and never divorced. It’s just not the same world anymore.
Did you vote in 1980?
If not, did you read up on that election? Who was the winner? Was he ever divorced?
Like Grifter Twump, you just stated a falsehood.
I was too young to vote. Far too young then.
So, forgive me if my idea of “family values†and character was a poor example. I just don’t believe that matters as much now. It may with the older voters. Hell, the 21 year olds think Biden quotes are Trump quotes and don’t know what the civil war is .... according to videos of random people on California beaches. I don’t think they vote today the same as people did in 1980. That’s my point. Sorry for the error if I made one.
Yes, you made one. You stated a premise that was dead wrong. You revised history to support your premise. Reagan was elected president in 1980. He was a divorcee. He was previously married to Jane Wyman and was married to his second wife, Nancy, when elected.
Being too young to vote then doesn't negate that google would have informed you.
Per 3, yes governors set state mask mandates but you really think the president’s stance, leadership, communication and example-setting is irrelevant?? I said in March that Trump should set an example with wearing masks and encouraging people to do so, and if he’d done that we might only have 50-100k dead Americans. And that’s the asshole you want to vote for? the one who doesn’t actually give a flying fuck that 200k Americans are dead as long as it helps him get re-elected and stay out of jail.
Per 3, yes governors set state mask mandates but you really think the president’s stance, leadership, communication and example-setting is irrelevant?? I said in March that Trump should set an example with wearing masks and encouraging people to do so, and if he’d done that we might only have 50-100k dead Americans. And that’s the asshole you want to vote for? the one who doesn’t actually give a flying fuck that 200k Americans are dead as long as it helps him get re-elected and stay out of jail.
Bravo!
Read what I wrote in six
It's great that you wear a mask, despite Trump's lack of support for mask-wearing that has likely cost tens of thousands of lives, maybe including his own.
I feel that the world has altered over time and much that is generally accepted today once wasn’t. Heck, in 1980 if someone had a tattoo they were judged. We would have chosen a Presidential candidate who was married and never divorced. It’s just not the same world anymore.
Did you vote in 1980?
If not, did you read up on that election? Who was the winner? Was he ever divorced?
Like Grifter Twump, you just stated a falsehood.
I was too young to vote. Far too young then.
So, forgive me if my idea of “family values†and character was a poor example. I just don’t believe that matters as much now. It may with the older voters. Hell, the 21 year olds think Biden quotes are Trump quotes and don’t know what the civil war is .... according to videos of random people on California beaches. I don’t think they vote today the same as people did in 1980. That’s my point. Sorry for the error if I made one.
Yes, you made one. You stated a premise that was dead wrong. You revised history to support your premise. Reagan was elected president in 1980. He was a divorcee. He was previously married to Jane Wyman and was married to his second wife, Nancy, when elected.
Being too young to vote then doesn't negate that google would have informed you.
I have a job dude. I don’t have time to google and take 10 min for every response. I made an error, I admitted it. I revised my point.
All I was attempting to suggest was that, in my opinion, family values were more important years ago than today.
Per 3, yes governors set state mask mandates but you really think the president’s stance, leadership, communication and example-setting is irrelevant?? I said in March that Trump should set an example with wearing masks and encouraging people to do so, and if he’d done that we might only have 50-100k dead Americans. And that’s the asshole you want to vote for? the one who doesn’t actually give a flying fuck that 200k Americans are dead as long as it helps him get re-elected and stay out of jail.
Bravo!
Read what I wrote in six
It's great that you wear a mask, despite Trump's lack of support for mask-wearing that has likely cost tens of thousands of lives, maybe including his own.
You still didn’t read what I wrote in six. Lol
If we didn’t have a mask mandate in my state, I can’t say I would wear a mask. However, I would social distance. Again, I have found I am not around people as much as some. My mask wearing efforts are not too critical. I wear it for 25 feet ordering Chipotle and then I take it off. That’s mainly the extent of me saving lives with a mask. Sure, there are other cases like when I’m at Home Depot or the grocery store, but all in all, I’m not around people that much.
I’m expecting to get the Rona at some point. I feel we can try and be safe, but there is no guarantee against the Rona.
Per 3, yes governors set state mask mandates but you really think the president’s stance, leadership, communication and example-setting is irrelevant?? I said in March that Trump should set an example with wearing masks and encouraging people to do so, and if he’d done that we might only have 50-100k dead Americans. And that’s the asshole you want to vote for? the one who doesn’t actually give a flying fuck that 200k Americans are dead as long as it helps him get re-elected and stay out of jail.
Bravo!
Read what I wrote in six
It's great that you wear a mask, despite Trump's lack of support for mask-wearing that has likely cost tens of thousands of lives, maybe including his own.
You still didn’t read what I wrote in six. Lol
Yes, you said you wear a mask.
And no, I'm not rehashing all the Sweden arguments with you. Read some Rruff threads. It's been debunked.
However, I wanted to reply. Your post has much merit and an interesting view. Although, I would like to believe the President has greater responsibility than Macaroni.
Take an obvious issue of slavery. Do you think people forgot Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves? Was that Macaroni?
There of course are major things that change our lives forever and other policies and laws that may alter slightly and go unnoticed. It’s human nature to have limited memories. Heck, people have mostly forgotten that Covid-19 shut down in March/April was so hospitals could keep up with sick people. Now, we are not wanting people to get sick at all.
The difference between your analogy of the President compared to the cheating wife with a drug problem is that a husband comes home to and deals with the wife personally on a daily basis. Citizens who vote don’t share a home, bedroom, or a meal with the President. All you have to do is turn off the tv and avoid politics on Facebook, or this forum, and you can live your life with no ill effect that the President has poor character. This doesn’t mean a voter is a supporter of poor character or that a voter suddenly also has the identical character of someone they are voting for.
Character is a personal matter. You can choose to be an asshole or not. You don't have to vote on the premise of someone being an asshole or not.
I recall a movie, Patch Adams. The guy said if he was dying and the best surgeon was an asshole. He would choose the asshole.
This logic is why many people ignore Trumps character.
Now, if we had better candidates, that would change everything. Although, we don’t.
i wasn't writing about character. i was writing about democracy. you may choose to overlook trump's character because your politics are transactional. fine. where i draw the line is when trump - or anyone - damages the processes and institutions that give us the right to have these conversations.
you can be a fine man without a love of democracy in you. i hold the king of jordan in high regard, and his father before him, and the people that family rules. you can be a fine person and a fine leader in a country that does not embrace democracy.
but in this country (the US), we choose democracy. trump can damage his various wives and he can stiff workers through his various bankruptcies. if you want to overlook that, that's your choice. but when he damages democracy - and there is absolutely no doubt about this - then if you stick with him you may be a good man, but the love of democracy is not in you. you may love america, but only in the way that a guatemalan loves guatemala, or a turk loves turkey. in this case america is a physical place to you, your homeland, and nothing more. the american experiment does not resonate with you. this doesn't make you bad; but on the topic of american exceptionalism, this is what is exceptional about us until we cease the discipline it takes to hold onto this form of government. Dan Empfield aka Slowman
You are right. Ignoring the areas in which Trump has been truly abysmal forces many reluctant supporters to compartmentalize their priorities. Lots of fine people support Trump, but they do so by largely denying attributes that they used to hold dear. Several good friends have gone down the rabbit hole of becoming incessant Trumpfans due to the binary world that they fit themselves into. In so doing they primarily are debating the person that they were just a handful years ago on so many issues (defcits, support for democracy, basic competence, character,...). After this season, I suspect that many of them will quietly reassert previous priorities.
You are right. Ignoring the areas in which Trump has been truly abysmal forces many reluctant supporters to compartmentalize their priorities. Lots of fine people support Trump, but they do so by largely denying attributes that they used to hold dear. Several good friends have gone down the rabbit hole of becoming incessant Trumpfans due to the binary world that they fit themselves into. In so doing they primarily are debating the person that they were just a handful years ago on so many issues (defcits, support for democracy, basic competence, character,...). After this season, I suspect that many of them will quietly reassert previous priorities.
I won’t argue your condescending response.
Although, you can read this and can call you a liar.
However, I wanted to reply. Your post has much merit and an interesting view. Although, I would like to believe the President has greater responsibility than Macaroni.
Take an obvious issue of slavery. Do you think people forgot Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves? Was that Macaroni?
There of course are major things that change our lives forever and other policies and laws that may alter slightly and go unnoticed. It’s human nature to have limited memories. Heck, people have mostly forgotten that Covid-19 shut down in March/April was so hospitals could keep up with sick people. Now, we are not wanting people to get sick at all.
The difference between your analogy of the President compared to the cheating wife with a drug problem is that a husband comes home to and deals with the wife personally on a daily basis. Citizens who vote don’t share a home, bedroom, or a meal with the President. All you have to do is turn off the tv and avoid politics on Facebook, or this forum, and you can live your life with no ill effect that the President has poor character. This doesn’t mean a voter is a supporter of poor character or that a voter suddenly also has the identical character of someone they are voting for.
Character is a personal matter. You can choose to be an asshole or not. You don't have to vote on the premise of someone being an asshole or not.
I recall a movie, Patch Adams. The guy said if he was dying and the best surgeon was an asshole. He would choose the asshole.
This logic is why many people ignore Trumps character.
Now, if we had better candidates, that would change everything. Although, we don’t.
i wasn't writing about character. i was writing about democracy. you may choose to overlook trump's character because your politics are transactional. fine. where i draw the line is when trump - or anyone - damages the processes and institutions that give us the right to have these conversations.
you can be a fine man without a love of democracy in you. i hold the king of jordan in high regard, and his father before him, and the people that family rules. you can be a fine person and a fine leader in a country that does not embrace democracy.
but in this country (the US), we choose democracy. trump can damage his various wives and he can stiff workers through his various bankruptcies. if you want to overlook that, that's your choice. but when he damages democracy - and there is absolutely no doubt about this - then if you stick with him you may be a good man, but the love of democracy is not in you. you may love america, but only in the way that a guatemalan loves guatemala, or a turk loves turkey. in this case america is a physical place to you, your homeland, and nothing more. the american experiment does not resonate with you. this doesn't make you bad; but on the topic of american exceptionalism, this is what is exceptional about us until we cease the discipline it takes to hold onto this form of government.
I appreciate your response. So, people claimed Trump suggesting to use military to handle riots was an abuse of power and military can’t be used on citizens.
Are these citizens patriots and lovers of USA and our democracy? Yet, they can enjoy the freedoms we offer when they offer nothing in return.
I’m close enough to see what has happened. I saw Facebook posts where people were planning to gather and destroy and loot. It was at a property that is a customer of mine and I had a $45,000 piece of Construction equipment in the parking lot. My kids were afraid. They couldn’t sleep. We watched on tv and I talked to my girlfriend about going there to move the equipment and bring a gun. We decided I wouldn’t bring a gun, but I wouldn’t go alone. I went with a friend. Fortunately, I moved the equipment and the police were circling everywhere and they established a curfew.
I watched live online when Kenosha was burned blocks from 2 rental properties I own and looted. A car lot lost over 1 million in vehicles destroyed. I worried if my rental properties were destroyed my insurance wouldn’t cover it and I feared for my tenants. Friends and neighbors were planning what to do if the riots moved. BLM leaders gave speeches to move into the suburbs.
I would have been FOR a quick squash of this situation by any means. 3 days was still too late and now people died in the Kyle Riitenhouse shooting and the area is destroyed. Luckily, the national guard came in and helped remedy. Initially, our governor gave them no power. They were statues watching the chaos.
Meanwhile the Democrats were suppose to be in Milwaukee and they instructed police to not use certain methods of control if people rioted. Police said no. Democrats didn’t come. Hilarious. Looks like they need the police too.
Safety first.
I don’t support defunding the police either.
If that means I support against democracy, you call it what you want.
thanks for your insightful comments about our country and the citizens thereof
Given what I've read from jharris so far, he may vote or may not for Trump, but he sounds like he is at least open minded enough to consider all the pros and cons. If Dan brought up a point that maybe he hadn't considered before - more to think on is better.
Dan was replying to jharris but I could say the same to you as well.
I agree. More to think on is always better than less.
However, I wanted to reply. Your post has much merit and an interesting view. Although, I would like to believe the President has greater responsibility than Macaroni.
Take an obvious issue of slavery. Do you think people forgot Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves? Was that Macaroni?
There of course are major things that change our lives forever and other policies and laws that may alter slightly and go unnoticed. It’s human nature to have limited memories. Heck, people have mostly forgotten that Covid-19 shut down in March/April was so hospitals could keep up with sick people. Now, we are not wanting people to get sick at all.
The difference between your analogy of the President compared to the cheating wife with a drug problem is that a husband comes home to and deals with the wife personally on a daily basis. Citizens who vote don’t share a home, bedroom, or a meal with the President. All you have to do is turn off the tv and avoid politics on Facebook, or this forum, and you can live your life with no ill effect that the President has poor character. This doesn’t mean a voter is a supporter of poor character or that a voter suddenly also has the identical character of someone they are voting for.
Character is a personal matter. You can choose to be an asshole or not. You don't have to vote on the premise of someone being an asshole or not.
I recall a movie, Patch Adams. The guy said if he was dying and the best surgeon was an asshole. He would choose the asshole.
This logic is why many people ignore Trumps character.
Now, if we had better candidates, that would change everything. Although, we don’t.
i wasn't writing about character. i was writing about democracy. you may choose to overlook trump's character because your politics are transactional. fine. where i draw the line is when trump - or anyone - damages the processes and institutions that give us the right to have these conversations.
you can be a fine man without a love of democracy in you. i hold the king of jordan in high regard, and his father before him, and the people that family rules. you can be a fine person and a fine leader in a country that does not embrace democracy.
but in this country (the US), we choose democracy. trump can damage his various wives and he can stiff workers through his various bankruptcies. if you want to overlook that, that's your choice. but when he damages democracy - and there is absolutely no doubt about this - then if you stick with him you may be a good man, but the love of democracy is not in you. you may love america, but only in the way that a guatemalan loves guatemala, or a turk loves turkey. in this case america is a physical place to you, your homeland, and nothing more. the american experiment does not resonate with you. this doesn't make you bad; but on the topic of american exceptionalism, this is what is exceptional about us until we cease the discipline it takes to hold onto this form of government.
I appreciate your response. So, people claimed Trump suggesting to use military to handle riots was an abuse of power and military can’t be used on citizens.
Are these citizens patriots and lovers of USA and our democracy? Yet, they can enjoy the freedoms we offer when they offer nothing in return.
I’m close enough to see what has happened. I saw Facebook posts where people were planning to gather and destroy and loot. It was at a property that is a customer of mine and I had a $45,000 piece of Construction equipment in the parking lot. My kids were afraid. They couldn’t sleep. We watched on tv and I talked to my girlfriend about going there to move the equipment and bring a gun. We decided I wouldn’t bring a gun, but I wouldn’t go alone. I went with a friend. Fortunately, I moved the equipment and the police were circling everywhere and they established a curfew.
I watched live online when Kenosha was burned blocks from 2 rental properties I own and looted. A car lot lost over 1 million in vehicles destroyed. I worried if my rental properties were destroyed my insurance wouldn’t cover it and I feared for my tenants. Friends and neighbors were planning what to do if the riots moved. BLM leaders gave speeches to move into the suburbs.
I would have been FOR a quick squash of this situation by any means. 3 days was still too late and now people died in the Kyle Riitenhouse shooting and the area is destroyed. Luckily, the national guard came in and helped remedy. Initially, our governor gave them no power. They were statues watching the chaos.
Meanwhile the Democrats were suppose to be in Milwaukee and they instructed police to not use certain methods of control if people rioted. Police said no. Democrats didn’t come. Hilarious. Looks like they need the police too.
Safety first.
I don’t support defunding the police either.
If that means I support against democracy, you call it what you want.
I had 2 crews of workers doing summer work at Kenosha Bradford, which ended up being a staging area during the day for LEO and guardsman. I ended up pulling them out after a couple days even during the day. They were in real danger, and they know who they were in real danger from.
They got very good insight into what was really going on. I would explain it here but it would fall on deaf ears.
All I was attempting to suggest was that, in my opinion, family values were more important years ago than today.
Carry on.[/quote]
You are absolutely right even if referencing a divorced Reagan. People then and now recognize that people make mistakes and were more than willing to elect a divorced person (but likely wouldn’t have in the 1950’s, so times change.
However, with the exception of Clinton, all the Presidents have had admirable personal qualities. They may not have elected W or Obama because of their character but they were of high personal character.
With Trump it’s more than being divorced that defines his lack of character. It’s his abuse or condescension towards his intelligence community, the military fighting wars, foreign allies or anyone who disagrees with him. There is a massive leap between electing a President who had a divorce and Trump.
So times have changed and people are more willing to overlook “flaws†but for many personal character is important when you are the leader of a Country.
That’s why I don’t understand how people can support Trump.
Being that nobody apparently will google Trumps accomplishments... here is a link
This isn’t the same source I found a month ago when I read it thoroughly, but it looks like it’s legit. I have not read it. I’m posting only because you won’t look yourself. The wall is one of many.
The first comment in those are wrong in his accomplishments. I stopped reading after that.
GDP has exceeded 3 percent in the past 4 quarters. - I assume this was written in the end of 2019. Since then (excluding covid) there was only one quarter above 2% growth.
The point is you try to show people why you vote for trump. You post things that show trump isnt as good as he says he is. Namely, after the initial bump from tax cuts GDP is closer to 2% - not exceeding 3%. Then you blame people for not doing their own research on your points. Thats not how this works.
Additionally, the information you provide is counter to your posts. If you care about GDP growth obviously you should not be happy with the 2% growth in 2019. So if you grade trump on his own list of accomplishments THAT YOU PROVIDED he is failing. You are 100% correct, I will not do your research to make your point. Specifically, all trump voters dont care about the same thing. Thats why I am specifically curious of what trump has done that you agree with. If you are a single issue "wall/immigration/law & order voter" then it is what it is. In 2016 trump voters cared about national security, government corruption, health care, the economy, and inequality. That is not the case today. I went back and looked. A lot on that list is laughable at this point. President Trump’s Administration is working to provide Americans with affordable alternatives to Obamacare. President Trump signed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act into law, ushering in the largest package of tax cuts and reforms in American history.  These tax cuts are delivering real results for American families and workers. President Trump held an historic summit with Chairman Kim Jong-Un, bringing beginnings of peace and denuclearization to the Korean Peninsula.
All I was attempting to suggest was that, in my opinion, family values were more important years ago than today.
But the question is not just family values. It is character. There is a saying that we see often. Character is what you do when no one is watching.
When we see people who will do heinous things right out in the open we are able to make pretty well informed inferences of what they will do when they think no one is watching. People who say they aren't worried about what Trump does in his personal life are making a big mistake. Because they are missing insights into who he is and what he is willing to do.
When someone acts corruptly right in your face, do you think they act more or less (and no, it is not fewer) corruptly in secret?
All we have heard this week is how horrible that debate was. I feel the opposite. I think that debate was nearly perfect. You got to see exactly who these two men are. I don't see how that debate could have possibly gone much better for Biden. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
However, I wanted to reply. Your post has much merit and an interesting view. Although, I would like to believe the President has greater responsibility than Macaroni.
Take an obvious issue of slavery. Do you think people forgot Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves? Was that Macaroni?
There of course are major things that change our lives forever and other policies and laws that may alter slightly and go unnoticed. It’s human nature to have limited memories. Heck, people have mostly forgotten that Covid-19 shut down in March/April was so hospitals could keep up with sick people. Now, we are not wanting people to get sick at all.
The difference between your analogy of the President compared to the cheating wife with a drug problem is that a husband comes home to and deals with the wife personally on a daily basis. Citizens who vote don’t share a home, bedroom, or a meal with the President. All you have to do is turn off the tv and avoid politics on Facebook, or this forum, and you can live your life with no ill effect that the President has poor character. This doesn’t mean a voter is a supporter of poor character or that a voter suddenly also has the identical character of someone they are voting for.
Character is a personal matter. You can choose to be an asshole or not. You don't have to vote on the premise of someone being an asshole or not.
I recall a movie, Patch Adams. The guy said if he was dying and the best surgeon was an asshole. He would choose the asshole.
This logic is why many people ignore Trumps character.
Now, if we had better candidates, that would change everything. Although, we don’t.
i wasn't writing about character. i was writing about democracy. you may choose to overlook trump's character because your politics are transactional. fine. where i draw the line is when trump - or anyone - damages the processes and institutions that give us the right to have these conversations.
you can be a fine man without a love of democracy in you. i hold the king of jordan in high regard, and his father before him, and the people that family rules. you can be a fine person and a fine leader in a country that does not embrace democracy.
but in this country (the US), we choose democracy. trump can damage his various wives and he can stiff workers through his various bankruptcies. if you want to overlook that, that's your choice. but when he damages democracy - and there is absolutely no doubt about this - then if you stick with him you may be a good man, but the love of democracy is not in you. you may love america, but only in the way that a guatemalan loves guatemala, or a turk loves turkey. in this case america is a physical place to you, your homeland, and nothing more. the american experiment does not resonate with you. this doesn't make you bad; but on the topic of american exceptionalism, this is what is exceptional about us until we cease the discipline it takes to hold onto this form of government.
I appreciate your response. So, people claimed Trump suggesting to use military to handle riots was an abuse of power and military can’t be used on citizens.
Are these citizens patriots and lovers of USA and our democracy? Yet, they can enjoy the freedoms we offer when they offer nothing in return.
I’m close enough to see what has happened. I saw Facebook posts where people were planning to gather and destroy and loot. It was at a property that is a customer of mine and I had a $45,000 piece of Construction equipment in the parking lot. My kids were afraid. They couldn’t sleep. We watched on tv and I talked to my girlfriend about going there to move the equipment and bring a gun. We decided I wouldn’t bring a gun, but I wouldn’t go alone. I went with a friend. Fortunately, I moved the equipment and the police were circling everywhere and they established a curfew.
I watched live online when Kenosha was burned blocks from 2 rental properties I own and looted. A car lot lost over 1 million in vehicles destroyed. I worried if my rental properties were destroyed my insurance wouldn’t cover it and I feared for my tenants. Friends and neighbors were planning what to do if the riots moved. BLM leaders gave speeches to move into the suburbs.
I would have been FOR a quick squash of this situation by any means. 3 days was still too late and now people died in the Kyle Riitenhouse shooting and the area is destroyed. Luckily, the national guard came in and helped remedy. Initially, our governor gave them no power. They were statues watching the chaos.
Meanwhile the Democrats were suppose to be in Milwaukee and they instructed police to not use certain methods of control if people rioted. Police said no. Democrats didn’t come. Hilarious. Looks like they need the police too.
Safety first.
I don’t support defunding the police either.
If that means I support against democracy, you call it what you want.
i, like you, do not support defunding the police (and neither does biden). i, like you, do not condone rioting (and neither does biden). these are issues. these are transitory issues. the much, much more worrisome habits are: taking a wrecking ball to our national faith in our election process; treating the organs of government as if they belong to you, rather than belonging to the people.
you don't see this. you have your near-vision glasses on. i have my distance glasses on. you can't see the panorama. you can't see what jurists and generals, diplomats and historians see, and i mean most of them, regardless of party. i would just ask that you reflect, and ask yourself if there's a larger point, a bigger truth, about your country, and it's just been in your blind spot. ask yourself who you are first. what you value most. and if it's trumpism, then fine. but then be honest with yourself. you do not value a country of laws; a country where the citizens make the leadership choices. you value the tribe, and you cleave to the personage who best resonates with your tribe.
and let's be clear, this is natural. this is the predisposition of our species. it's how most of the world has lived for most of history. democracy is like monogamy: we're fighting against some ancient wiring. trump's appeal is he plays to your wiring. i have lived long enough to know that i really value my wife and family, and my country's operating principles; each offers a better alternative; each is subject to entropy if i'm lazy; each requires air pumped in the tires. trump is like the friend who tells you it's okay to cheat on your wife; nobody will know. JFK cheated on his wife, but was true to his country. nixon was true to his wife, and cheated on his country. trump cheats on everything, especially his country. he's given you permission to cheat. you need to decide whether you're going to act on that permission. Dan Empfield aka Slowman
All I was attempting to suggest was that, in my opinion, family values were more important years ago than today.
Carry on.
You are absolutely right even if referencing a divorced Reagan. People then and now recognize that people make mistakes and were more than willing to elect a divorced person (but likely wouldn’t have in the 1950’s, so times change.
However, with the exception of Clinton, all the Presidents have had admirable personal qualities. They may not have elected W or Obama because of their character but they were of high personal character.
With Trump it’s more than being divorced that defines his lack of character. It’s his abuse or condescension towards his intelligence community, the military fighting wars, foreign allies or anyone who disagrees with him. There is a massive leap between electing a President who had a divorce and Trump.
So times have changed and people are more willing to overlook “flaws†but for many personal character is important when you are the leader of a Country.
That’s why I don’t understand how people can support Trump.[/quote] Is it fair to assume people who once found family values important and not as much now shifted to personal character that was more important than family values, but that has also shifted now?
I’m not sure of your age, but I’m 47 and I’m old compared to an 18 year old who can vote. They think much differently.
Being that nobody apparently will google Trumps accomplishments... here is a link
This isn’t the same source I found a month ago when I read it thoroughly, but it looks like it’s legit. I have not read it. I’m posting only because you won’t look yourself. The wall is one of many.
The first comment in those are wrong in his accomplishments. I stopped reading after that.
GDP has exceeded 3 percent in the past 4 quarters. - I assume this was written in the end of 2019. Since then (excluding covid) there was only one quarter above 2% growth.
The point is you try to show people why you vote for trump. You post things that show trump isnt as good as he says he is. Namely, after the initial bump from tax cuts GDP is closer to 2% - not exceeding 3%. Then you blame people for not doing their own research on your points. Thats not how this works.
Additionally, the information you provide is counter to your posts. If you care about GDP growth obviously you should not be happy with the 2% growth in 2019. So if you grade trump on his own list of accomplishments THAT YOU PROVIDED he is failing. You are 100% correct, I will not do your research to make your point. Specifically, all trump voters dont care about the same thing. Thats why I am specifically curious of what trump has done that you agree with. If you are a single issue "wall/immigration/law & order voter" then it is what it is. In 2016 trump voters cared about national security, government corruption, health care, the economy, and inequality. That is not the case today. I went back and looked. A lot on that list is laughable at this point. President Trump’s Administration is working to provide Americans with affordable alternatives to Obamacare. President Trump signed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act into law, ushering in the largest package of tax cuts and reforms in American history.  These tax cuts are delivering real results for American families and workers. President Trump held an historic summit with Chairman Kim Jong-Un, bringing beginnings of peace and denuclearization to the Korean Peninsula.
I don’t have the time to dig up information and post stuff for you to read. It’s not my responsibility. I posted a list and said it wasn’t the list I initially read. Everyone is too lazy to google so I attempted for you.
Go find a better list.
Biden sucks too.
Don’t kid yourself.
Peace out.
Back to my rum and Coke
I’m ending my posts on this thread. It’s proving to be futile to have a discussion that’s meaningful.
Is it fair to assume people who once found family values important and not as much now shifted to personal character that was more important than family values, but that has also shifted now?
I’m not sure of your age, but I’m 47 and I’m old compared to an 18 year old who can vote. They think much differently.
I am old school (58) so I just wish those 18 year olds would vote for character and while they're at it, get off my damn lawn.
Biden has been wishy-washy on his claims of choosing sides all along. He is playing the role of a 47 year politician and doing it well. Where does Harris stand? How about Pelosi? Let’s not forget the infamous AOC. Defunding the police is already happening. If Biden is elected will he put it all back into place?
The police back Trump. No, I don’t have time to find the link, but I read it. Google it yourself.
I don’t believe Biden will fight the party he belongs to on defunding the police.
That’s the difference between you and I.
Biden said it, so it must be true. I’m assuming that’s what you then believe. Although, if Trump says something, he is a liar, so I don’t trust it. I assume that also your response.
It’s ok. I’m not judging you. I’m just saying this is where we differ.
So, I decided I’m ending my activity on this thread. No need to reply, but do so if you choose. I’ve invested more time than I should when I’m working as much as I am right now. I don’t have the time to invest in this discussion any longer.
You said you like trump because he got stuff done. I asked you what were the top 5 things you liked that trump got done.
You said the wall and ended it there.
You posted a list of things you liked that trump did. That list is laughable and does not show stuff Trump has done. By all accounts it seems like you are too lazy to make your own point.
Your initial point was that you liked trump because he got stuff done. People have been repeatedly asking you what has trump done that you liked. You have been able to say 1 thing.
Biden has been wishy-washy on his claims of choosing sides all along. He is playing the role of a 47 year politician and doing it well. Where does Harris stand? How about Pelosi? Let’s not forget the infamous AOC. Defunding the police is already happening. If Biden is elected will he put it all back into place?
The police back Trump. No, I don’t have time to find the link, but I read it. Google it yourself.
I don’t believe Biden will fight the party he belongs to on defunding the police.
That’s the difference between you and I.
Biden said it, so it must be true. I’m assuming that’s what you then believe. Although, if Trump says something, he is a liar, so I don’t trust it. I assume that also your response.
It’s ok. I’m not judging you. I’m just saying this is where we differ.
So, I decided I’m ending my activity on this thread. No need to reply, but do so if you choose. I’ve invested more time than I should when I’m working as much as I am right now. I don’t have the time to invest in this discussion any longer.
Your obvious Leftist boogeyman filter is just silly. Biden has almost a half-century record of governance; he's always been more of a moderate bridge-builder across the aisle than a leftist ideologue. Projecting some kind of fringe position onto him to try and make your vote for Trump sound more defensible is simply kidding yourself to excuse the fact you're supporting a despicable anti-democracy autocrat and racist demagogue. Ooh, but Biden won't disparage AOC with enough venomous ridicule like Trump does, so he's obviously just a closet commie radical... Give me a fucking break. If anything, the actual Lefties never really liked Biden because he was too mild & not strident enough.
You said you like trump because he got stuff done. I asked you what were the top 5 things you liked that trump got done.
You said the wall and ended it there.
You posted a list of things you liked that trump did. That list is laughable and does not show stuff Trump has done. By all accounts it seems like you are too lazy to make your own point.
Your initial point was that you liked trump because he got stuff done. People have been repeatedly asking you what has trump done that you liked. You have been able to say 1 thing.
Which didn’t get done. 5 miles of wall. That’s it. That’s all that was built.
Trump voters are absurd. How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
You said you like trump because he got stuff done. I asked you what were the top 5 things you liked that trump got done.
You said the wall and ended it there.
You posted a list of things you liked that trump did. That list is laughable and does not show stuff Trump has done. By all accounts it seems like you are too lazy to make your own point.
Your initial point was that you liked trump because he got stuff done. People have been repeatedly asking you what has trump done that you liked. You have been able to say 1 thing.
Which didn’t get done. 5 miles of wall. That’s it. That’s all that was built.
You said you like trump because he got stuff done. I asked you what were the top 5 things you liked that trump got done.
You said the wall and ended it there.
You posted a list of things you liked that trump did. That list is laughable and does not show stuff Trump has done. By all accounts it seems like you are too lazy to make your own point.
Your initial point was that you liked trump because he got stuff done. People have been repeatedly asking you what has trump done that you liked. You have been able to say 1 thing.
Which didn’t get done. 5 miles of wall. That’s it. That’s all that was built.
Trump voters are absurd.
don't forget entering trade wars. he got that done......
Trade wars are easy. He won them. Bigly. How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
You said you like trump because he got stuff done. I asked you what were the top 5 things you liked that trump got done.
You said the wall and ended it there.
You posted a list of things you liked that trump did. That list is laughable and does not show stuff Trump has done. By all accounts it seems like you are too lazy to make your own point.
Your initial point was that you liked trump because he got stuff done. People have been repeatedly asking you what has trump done that you liked. You have been able to say 1 thing.
Which didn’t get done. 5 miles of wall. That’s it. That’s all that was built.
Trump voters are absurd.
don't forget entering trade wars. he got that done......
Bincohiden has been wishy-washy on his claims of choosing sides all along. He is playing the role of a 47 year politician and doing it well. ...
That’s the difference between you and I.
The real difference is that you are time and time again ignoring real-life failings of the present POTUS, and eleveating hypothetical fears to same level as reality. When forced to make any judgment about POTUS, you engage in obvious false equivalences to rationalize your decision to not consider his falings.
Every point that you raise is primarily an attack to win the upcoming election. Witness your favorite "47-year politician". Are you interesting in proving that a life-long public servant is truly evil? Not really, you are satisfied that "politican" is enough condemnation. The more particular attack is that he "hasn't done anything in 47 years" (except for a handful of policies that you specifically cull to attack him further). Of course, you are endlessly arguing with yourself. You are "appalled" that he has not passed very much (careful not to cast any blame for gridlock on your side!), yet you are more appalled by the possiblity that he could pass a great deal of legislation. Scratch the surface of your talking points, and their integrity vanishes to reaveal that they only exist to mount an attack, and they lack any internal logical consistency. That is totally fine, that is what partisn attacks are for, they are perfectly logical in their goal of attacking the other side. That is the only logic that they require.
Biden has been wishy-washy on his claims of choosing sides all along. He is playing the role of a 47 year politician and doing it well. Where does Harris stand? How about Pelosi? Let’s not forget the infamous AOC. Defunding the police is already happening. If Biden is elected will he put it all back into place?
The police back Trump. No, I don’t have time to find the link, but I read it. Google it yourself.
I don’t believe Biden will fight the party he belongs to on defunding the police.
That’s the difference between you and I.
Biden said it, so it must be true. I’m assuming that’s what you then believe. Although, if Trump says something, he is a liar, so I don’t trust it. I assume that also your response.
It’s ok. I’m not judging you. I’m just saying this is where we differ.
So, I decided I’m ending my activity on this thread. No need to reply, but do so if you choose. I’ve invested more time than I should when I’m working as much as I am right now. I don’t have the time to invest in this discussion any longer.
Your obvious Leftist boogeyman filter is just silly. Biden has almost a half-century record of governance; he's always been more of a moderate bridge-builder across the aisle than a leftist ideologue. Projecting some kind of fringe position onto him to try and make your vote for Trump sound more defensible is simply kidding yourself to excuse the fact you're supporting a despicable anti-democracy autocrat and racist demagogue. Ooh, but Biden won't disparage AOC with enough venomous ridicule like Trump does, so he's obviously just a closet commie radical... Give me a fucking break. If anything, the actual Lefties never really liked Biden because he was too mild & not strident enough.
i think two things are clear from this exchange:
1. that jharris is a more civil, less caustic, version of amstel. nice guy. but it was always a fiction that he was anything but a trump devotee.
2. jharris is a good enough man that he knew that if he took a square look at trump's assault on our democratic institutions, it would have caused him some real trouble. so he avoided it wholly. trump's narratives make you feel good.
that's what ethnic nationalism does. it feels good. it resonates. civilization is plastic surgery on mankind. but ugly, as they say, is to the bone. jharris has had his brain stem tickled, and an assault on democracy can't compete with that. Dan Empfield aka Slowman
My wife and I have been talking about this. This is Trump's most useful skill. He has done it his whole life. He can't get everyone. There are a whole lot of people that see or hear him and are immediately turned off. But there are enough people he has gotten what he wants.
In business there are a lot of people who would never come close to him, banks who would never loan him money, vendors who would either not do business or make sure they were paid up front. But he could always find someone.
In the primaries he was sitting at 30% of Republicans. But in a crowded field that was enough. And that 30% were enthralled. Then in the general election who else would Republicans vote for? Hillary? No way. So he got what he wanted.
What I have not completely decided is how my neighbors are so susceptible. I live in north central rural Ohio. My county went 72.4 - 22.9 for Trump. They have nothing in common with him. They are 55th of 88 counties in per capita income. Household income is $49,891/year. No large towns, mostly farmland. So the trade war with China that crushed grain prices hit them hard, but they didn't care. These are guys who do things and make things, something Trump has never done.
But man he can reach into their brains and tickle the right buttons. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and ascribe it to only the best intentions, but I am not naive. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Fair enough. I won’t disparage those who vote differently than I do. I have my reasons and I don’t believe the character of a voter reflects the politician for whom they vote. Lots of folks voted for Bill. That doesn’t mean they’re womanizing douchebags whose wife attacks the women assaulted. They had their reasons for their vote that dismissed the teenage libido and the HRC aggressive attacks on the victims.
They had their reasons. It’s more complex than Trumps character. Again, I’m in for Biden/Kamala. I split my vote for Obama.
I’m not willing to throw all whose vote opposite to me into a sewer.
This. You can respect a person, but not respect all of their opinions. We probably need some kind of civic based emotional education in this country.
Republicans don't actually need to do anything as long as they stop Democrats from doing something. It really is that simple. Hell, Republicans even get a pass on doing things they accuse the Democrats of wanting to do, like blow up the national debt through carefully selected socialist programs. Your neighborhood farmers are one of the biggest recipients of those. The boogeyman is real. We've been taught to be fearful of them from the time we could walk and talk. It's a powerful tool that doesn't require any validation other than they bad, we good.
Biden calling Trump a name isn’t what anything is about. Both candidates suck. I can say that and still say Trump has my vote.
Can you say Biden sucks, but you will vote for him? Be honest.
Biden sucks. I can't remember a less inspiring Democratic Party candidate except maybe Dukakis. I am looking forward to voting for him.
I appreciate you being part of the discussion in forthcoming way. I can't be easy.
I see Trump as a threat to our country and no piece of policy is important enough for me to endorse a threat to our country.
This. Biden is, frankly, pretty mediocre, and that's being generous. He was terrible in the debate, but many still seem to think he won by default. But as you say, he is not the threat to the fabric of our society and our institutions that Trump is. It's not a contest.
Biden is great. He's the best candidate standing. He's not banana republic Donald, and he's not a radicalized hater. We don't need someone at the peak of health, vigor, and effectiveness. This is the government we're talking about here. Just give me someone with real life experience, real political experience, that loves this country, and isn't a douchebag. The remaining ~330 million will pick up the slack.
Republicans don't actually need to do anything as long as they stop Democrats from doing something. It really is that simple. Hell, Republicans even get a pass on doing things they accuse the Democrats of wanting to do, like blow up the national debt through carefully selected socialist programs. Your neighborhood farmers are one of the biggest recipients of those. The boogeyman is real. We've been taught to be fearful of them from the time we could walk and talk. It's a powerful tool that doesn't require any validation other than they bad, we good.
I grew up on a farm. As did my dad and his dad and presumably every dad in the lineage before that. Apparently we have those good genes Trump likes to talk about because we aren't susceptible to his charms. Hell, I'm even mostly German, he might have a point. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Republicans don't actually need to do anything as long as they stop Democrats from doing something. It really is that simple. Hell, Republicans even get a pass on doing things they accuse the Democrats of wanting to do, like blow up the national debt through carefully selected socialist programs. Your neighborhood farmers are one of the biggest recipients of those. The boogeyman is real. We've been taught to be fearful of them from the time we could walk and talk. It's a powerful tool that doesn't require any validation other than they bad, we good.
I grew up on a farm. As did my dad and his dad and presumably every dad in the lineage before that. Apparently we have those good genes Trump likes to talk about because we aren't susceptible to his charms. Hell, I'm even mostly German, he might have a point.
Ahh yes, Germans famous for not falling for charismatic leaders that blame a countries problems on boogeymen.
Republicans don't actually need to do anything as long as they stop Democrats from doing something. It really is that simple. Hell, Republicans even get a pass on doing things they accuse the Democrats of wanting to do, like blow up the national debt through carefully selected socialist programs. Your neighborhood farmers are one of the biggest recipients of those. The boogeyman is real. We've been taught to be fearful of them from the time we could walk and talk. It's a powerful tool that doesn't require any validation other than they bad, we good.
I grew up on a farm. As did my dad and his dad and presumably every dad in the lineage before that. Apparently we have those good genes Trump likes to talk about because we aren't susceptible to his charms. Hell, I'm even mostly German, he might have a point.
Ahh yes, Germans famous for not falling for charismatic leaders that blame a countries problems on boogeymen.
I'm so German my mom's grandfather and dad ran a brewery in Defiance, OH. My dad's family grew up around a small town in NW Ohio named New Bavaria. There is a little French thrown in so we do give up every now and then, Bouvier to be exact. Yes that Bouvier. Jackie was like 4th - 6th cousin, can't remember exactly. I didn't even get a Christmas card. I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Republicans don't actually need to do anything as long as they stop Democrats from doing something. It really is that simple. Hell, Republicans even get a pass on doing things they accuse the Democrats of wanting to do, like blow up the national debt through carefully selected socialist programs. Your neighborhood farmers are one of the biggest recipients of those. The boogeyman is real. We've been taught to be fearful of them from the time we could walk and talk. It's a powerful tool that doesn't require any validation other than they bad, we good.
I grew up on a farm. As did my dad and his dad and presumably every dad in the lineage before that. Apparently we have those good genes Trump likes to talk about because we aren't susceptible to his charms. Hell, I'm even mostly German, he might have a point.
Ahh yes, Germans famous for not falling for charismatic leaders that blame a countries problems on boogeymen.
I'm so German my mom's grandfather and dad ran a brewery in Defiance, OH. My dad's family grew up around a small town in NW Ohio named New Bavaria. There is a little French thrown in so we do give up every now and then, Bouvier to be exact. Yes that Bouvier. Jackie was like 4th - 6th cousin, can't remember exactly. I didn't even get a Christmas card.
Don’t take it too hard, many people are saying that hating Christmas is a tradition among First Ladies.
