If my friend was talking to a bunch of young military recruits, and he said "Some of you are only here for the prestige and glory. You aren't here for the right reasons so you are a disgrace and mock us all." Do you also take that to mean he is calling ALL of the recruits or all service members a disgrace? Is that a big "fuck you" to the rest of them? Or is he specifically identifying a small select few?

I find it very difficult to follow your logic. He said "To them I say, unashamedly,..." And in the preceding sentence he identifies the "them" as those specific people who want to use this situation for political gain. I've no earthy idea how you take that comment to be a broad brush against the teachers and their union.

This is my problem with politics and emotional responses. People take a portion of sentences or arguments and use them as attacking points. If someone says "Even though the virus is deadly, there are very real reasons we should consider allowing people to x, y, or z." But people don't wait around to hear that. They've been conditioned to fire up the engines and start the mob. Nope, its much more realistic and advantageous to say people hate teachers, want to sacrifice children, don't care, etc. etc. Are there politicians who abuse power and say that shit? Sure. But apparently the hardware stores are all out of small brushes. Broad brushes are all we see anymore.

We can't have disagreements that lead to beneficial discourse anymore. This is why politics is spiraling down the drain out of control, and taking the populace with it. "Something good can't possibly come from a differing opinion, nu uh." Rabble rabble rabble!

Teachers and unions oppose reopening schools (the majority of them anyway, and until there is a real plan in place).

He said

"There are some people who want to keep our schools closed because they think it gives them a political advantage. They are using our kids as political pawns. To them I say, unashamedly, that they can kiss my a**,"

Newsweek reached out to him for comments on this. He hasn't so far. So maybe he can start by clarifying who the "there are some people" are?
Or is that straight out of the Trump playbook of making fuzzy statements so he can recant later? If he clarifies, I'm happy to admit I was dead wrong.

you're going to be banned for a few days, brother. i want you to read this tho, first, so that you know why, and i want everyone else to know why you're not posting here.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

And you think that Sen Kennedy thinks it's teachers who are looking for political advantage? Seriously? Stop digging.

You forgot to add what he said subsequently:

"I know some people in good faith disagree with me, and I respect that. Let's have the debate."

"...they can kiss my ass. That's just wrong, to do that to the kids of America. Not the people in good faith, just those who are enjoying the chaos because they think it's going to help them in November."

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

It's a joke Dan. Would croissant have been better? Palmier? If you see the whole post it was to point out the American Academy of Pediatrics wants kids in school and Francois seems to ignore that fact.

Probably a good idea as Francois was getting pummeled in this thread, and rightly so. Good of you to step in and call it.

Seriously? He pretty explicitly clarified who the SOME PEOPLE are. You quoted it yourself. Its right there in the quote! The "some people" are the ones referred to in the bolded. Holy shit.

So, let me make sure I understand correctly.
He made an ambiguous statement about people trying to prevent schools from reopening to gain political advantage. But 'some' are in good faith. And I'm supposed to assume that those in good fait are all the teachers because basically you told me that your interpretation of his statements is the correct one. Gotcha.

You don't have to assume that those who have good faith reasons are all the teachers. All you have to do is not assume that when someone talks about people looking for political advantage in November, that he really means teachers, because, you know,...that makes no fucking sense.

Stop. You're not this dense. At this point you're just being obtuse.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

your joke was in poor "taste." your joke was at another's expense. one of your jokes made me pretty upset last week. maybe you'd better rethink your jokes.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Ah, man. I don't presume to tell you how to do your job but, there are far worse offenses on this forum, and people take repeated jabs at each other.

Maybe you're right. Maybe I am assuming the worst from Sen. Kennedy.
Why wouldn't he just say: "I know teachers are in good faith". Why not avoid ambiguity? I find it funny that you're criticizing me here for not portraying his statement accurately, when this is just an online forum read by a few folks who like to discuss and argue, and you're comfortable with him going on live TV making ambiguous statements akin to the orange turd in the WH, and with millions of viewers.

actually, yes, you are presuming to tell me my job. and that's okay. expressing opinions are what these forum boards are for, and i don't mind you expressing yours, even if it's presuming to tell me my job.

this forum is about 20 years old. you've been here for a good amount of that time. but you may not be in full possession of all the tactics by which certain users get under the skin of others users. it's kind of like trump's more outrageous statements, which he makes, and then tries to play of as jokes afterward. but he knows exactly what he's doing. i can't do anything about trump's behavior, except to vote in november. but i can do something about the behavior on this forum.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Is there some allusion to French bread that I am unaware of that makes it in poor taste?

I've hidden his posts so I don't really care. Ironically, windy the whole knowing sends me personal messages to figure out how randomized control trials work and I have to explain at length.
But on the forum is comfortable with personal attacks.

As for the AAP, I'm very familiar with it as I work with several of them. They don't highlight how to operationalize reopening. They highlight what should be achieved. The AAP is a medical organization. They don't run schools.

Because it's not really ambiguous, and because it's not only teachers who have good faith reasons for opposing school reopening. Do you want him to list every specific sub-group of people? What about parents? Kids? Janitors? School administrators? Politicians? Non-school related professions?



The statement was not ambiguous. He specified the people he was talking about. If you fall into the camp of people opposing school reopening and embracing the chaos of the virus as a political tool, he says you can kiss his ass. If you have good faith reasons for opposing school re-opening, he respects that and would like to have further discussion. That's not ambiguous at all. I hate to break it to you, but all teachers do not fall only on one side of this debate.

We can debate all day whether we think he actually believes what he said, or whether his position about school reopening is the best course of action. But his statement was not ambiguous, he did not tell teachers to kiss his ass, and the more you try to defend your nonsense, the worse you sound.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Yes, but in reality, are there any people actually pressing for schools to remain closed for political gain? I think we both know that this simply isn't happening. Almost every commentator I've seen in recent weeks who has discussed this issue has begun with a clarifying statement that "Let's be clear: we all want kids to be back in school."

In contrast, there is arguably plenty of evidence to suggest that members of the GOP want schools to re-open regardless of the risks. They see it as politically beneficial to them in November, because if schools are still mostly closed because of the pandemic, it will highlight what a shitty job they have done to contain it.

Even Betsy DeVos was on TV the other day saying, "There is absolutely no reason at all why schools would not re-open in person this fall." So essentially these people are pushing for schools to re-open at the risk of worsening the COVID outbreak and costing lives, for their own political gain. And they have the gall to accuse those concerned about the health of kids and staff of seeking political gain. Again, it's so Trumpian and it's disgusting.

C'mon dude, you were being a dick with all your surrender, Maginot, baguette references. This isn't your first rodeo.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Well, I find his statement ambiguous. Good for you if it's clear.
I don't really care if I sound worse to you and a few others, frankly. You've already called me, stupid, dense, obtuse. I may have forgotten a few.

I actually said a couple of times that you weren't stupid or dense. I did say you might be acting deliberately obtuse.

You should really stop lying about what people say.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Does it even matter if the group he is referencing exists or not? He could have been referencing teachers who are unicorns or leprechauns, as long as he specifically said unicorns and leprechauns could kiss his ass then he wasn't telling anyone else to kiss his ass.

He has openly stated he is open to having debate on rational reasons to close or open schools. But he would not entertain those people who only argue for opening based on political gain. If none of those people exist, then so be it. He still made his stance known. He is open to logical debate. Not sure why this needs to be said 100 different ways.

Um, yes it matters. Because if those people don’t exist then it means his whole statement is a lie and intentionally divisive. Let me re-paste it here for you to read agin, in the context that he, you and I know that these people don’t actually exist.

“America's going through a rough patch right now. Some people seem to be enjoying it. Maybe they just hate America. Maybe they just enjoy watching the world burn. I think some are liking the chaos because they think it gives them a political advantage. Part of that chaos is caused by school's closing. For our kids, we need to open them. There are some people who want to keep our schools closed because they think it gives them a political advantage. They are using our kids as political pawns. To them I say, unashamedly, that they can kiss my ass.”

So Francois telling Windy to kiss his ass and go fuck himself is okay (I'm not sure if he deleted that fuck yourself post of it was deleted), but a joke about french bread is unacceptable?

I get it, Windy can and has stepped over the line. I get your frustration, but you continue to publicly call him out far more than anyone else that also breaks rules over and over and everyone thinks that means the rules about insulting people don't apply to him and so throwing personal insults at him is free reign right now.

Francois is completely in the wrong on this thread and has no backing to what he is saying and frankly should be ashamed of the blatant hypocrisy.

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~Brad

francois, in my opinion, took liberties in his representation of what senator kennedy said. my job here as a moderator is not to call out, and to ban people, for each infraction associated with debate, reading comprehension or critical thinking. if it were, i'd have banned a whole spitload of people here for not understanding what francois writes about epidemiology which, when he writes it, is coming from an epidemiologist. i don't argue with slowguy about how hard it is to put out a fire on a ship on which he served. but you guys want to argue epidemiology with an epidemiologist. fine. have at it. it won't get you banned. arguing epidemiology when you clearly have no clue what you're talking about is allowed here. making fun of someone's nationality is a problem for me, altho i let it go an awful lot with the problem some of you guys appear to have with canadians. i let it go because it doesn't appear to overly bother the canadians who, as a group, seem to be made of sterner stuff than a lot of the americans here.

see slowguy's post just above. i'm familiar with our longtime members. you may not like my politics, but i'm not an idiot. let's not either of us insult the other's intelligence. okay?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman