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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]
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avikoren1 wrote:
i opted to buy new with all di2 done by the oem. now i got a p3 that was "slapped" together.

While I don't think the behaviour of your LBS was acceptable - he should have talked this through with you as an option - I'd note that Cervelos Di2 wiring on the P3 is garbage - just slapped together. It takes a quite a bit of effort and usually extra cost to make it tidy (I'm a Cervelo dealer).
So not getting the OE build is not necessarily a bad thing (and you got better wheels), but he should have worked through this with you first to make sure you were ok with the idea.
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]
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avikoren1 wrote:
So I recently posted that I was considering updating my P2 105 to Di2 or buying the new P3 Di2 Ultegra. Needless to say I purchased a new P3. Looking online I saw a price, called the LBS, he came close to matching it and we agreed on a price. It was for the 2019 P3 Ultegra Di2 Rim. He took a deposit and told me he would order the bike and it should be in later that week. During the next week I came in to pick up the bike. He was swapping wheels for me and helping me transfer things over from the P2 to the new P3. While at the shop I noticed that the wheels that come with my new bike are not the spec'ed wheels (spec wheels are mavic elite, he gave me DS Swiss). I asked and he said something like, "oh the bikes come different ways, etc" I didn't care much about the wheels as much and sort of accepted what he told me. Then when I looked it up it turns out that that the DT-Swiss wheels he gave me are spec'ed with the standard Ultegra build (none Di2 version) and the Mavic's are spec'ed with the Di2 build. At any rate, I bring the bike home, (my first Di2) and today started to look into the buttons on the shifter, and much to my surprise I have two buttons on my shifter but the spec says it should have only one button. More research on my part and I realize that my bike was spec'ed with the 8060 shifter (one button) but what I have is the ST-6871 shifter with two buttons. Now I am boiling up, I called the shop owner and asked what the heck is going on with my bike. He went back and forth but essentially it turns out he had an Ultegra build (none Di2) in his shop and he took off parts from another bike and built up the Ultegra he had to Di2. In the process I didn't get the right wheels or shifter. He said he would do what ever I wanted, take the bike back, etc. I said he should have told me what he was doing instead of trying to sneak it by me. He said it is standard for shops to build bikes, ie put them together a certain way but this doesn't feel right. For example, what battery did he use, is it mounted in the correct place or just thrown in some where, and is the whole Di2 assembled as it would have been if it was purchased as a Di2? I do see some signs of "assembly" minor scratches on the extension bars, stem, etc. So, what is a guy to do? Is this okay and should I just get over it? Was the owner deceitful? What would you do?

PS
To make this even more complicated, after my first ride, I leaned my bike against the wall and it fell, leaving a couple of scratches on the derailleur and my pedal, uggg. So taking the bike back may be an issue now that I managed to scratch it on my first day.

This is not acceptable. Doing business with anyone the process should be transparent and up front. Not sure what your options are now, other than avoid that shop from now on.

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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]
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For reference, I've worked in a bike shop in NZ. If we had done what had happened to you, and a customer complained & we did nothing about it, either they would complain to head office (and fair enough, they have screwed you on the price even with a discount there) & we'd lose our jobs, or the customer wouldn't bother with head office & take us straight to court, and then we'd lose our jobs.

If you aren't happy, find a way to either a) get some money back for what they've done, b) find another way that they can add value to you (rare these days, especially if you don't trust the shop), or c) get all your money back, and go to another shop & find something else you want. C is unlikely to happen, A or B options are easier to manage to get something
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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knighty76 wrote:
People are being very forgiving. I wouldn't be.

1) He took your money and gave you something other than what you agreed to.
2) He didn't disclose where he was providing you with something other than what you both agreed on.
3) When challenged about the wheels, he lied straight to your face about it - "oh the bike comes in different ways".

I'd be livid and he wouldn't get a penny out of me*. Notwithstanding whatever damage I caused when it was in my possession.

* the only caveat I have is; how specific were you with them about your expectations for what you were buying? In my industry we don't buy anything complicated without agreeing on a SoW - a Statement of Work. A set of deliverables or, in simpler terms, what do I get for my money? Probably a lesson to be learned here.

Very specific, anew 2019 cervelo p3 di2 rim. he isn't denying this point. in fact during the call he said he would order the bike and it should take about a week. in reality he never ordered anything.

Here is an email i just sent him,

john doe, it's Avi with the P3.

I am quite upset over this issue. You weren't straight with with me. You had told me you're placing an order for my bike which should arrive by end of week. In fact there was never an order placed, you used an existing ultegra build frame with di2 parts that came off another bike. When I asked about the wheels you said they can come in any variation, not true. the di2 comes with mavic. It wasn't until i discovered the shifter issue that you came clean. This is unfortunate because now i have a trust issue and have other nagging doubts concerns. I also observed some scoffs and scratches, etc by the crank, carbon bar, extensions and around the stem, it makes sense now. Frankly I ask myself now, if you would have told me what you intend to do, would I've accepted it and the answer is NO, I wouldn't. Not without a substential discount. (in reality i paid you a premium over another retailer because of my positive past experience with the p2) So this leaves us with a dilemma. I know you put in time (and did i) but right now i didnt get the bike i paid for. I can take you up on the full return but maybe there is a middle ground. I wanted a new build, if i wanted a retrofit, I would have upgraded my P2 for less money. Bottom line, under all circumstances, I wouldn't have paid the price I paid had i known. So short of a full return, what amount would you retro refund to me so that we can move forward?
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]
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The shop 'short-changed' you, plain and simple. In some respects, it's a lateral move to swap out parts, but they took the latest/more desirable parts for themselves and put on the other, lesser desirable, parts for you. That ain't right.

At this point, I wouldn't give a sh!t that the rear derailleur got a little scratch (yes, that's unfortunate). Take it back and deal with a shop that isn't so slimey.
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]
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That’s in no way acceptable. Bike shops can’t seem to get out of their own way.
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [triguy86] [ In reply to ]
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he just responded that he understands my frustration and is willing to take $500 off the price. Sounds fair, i think I'll take it.
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]
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I've gotten confused - is this a money issue, a moral issue, a didn't get what you want issue, or something else? If it is a money issue, go for the $500. In any event, you want to make sure you fully enjoy your new bike (at whatever price).

David
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [david] [ In reply to ]
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it is a moral issue but i decided to meet him half way and a reasonable discount helps
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]
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avikoren1 wrote:
it is a moral issue but i decided $500 was worth more than my morals


Fixed it for you. ;)
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: May 12, 20 13:01
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
avikoren1 wrote:
it is a moral issue but i decided $500 was worth more than my morals


Fixed it for you. ;)

The taste in my mouth is a little less bitter. :)
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]
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Glad you got it worked out. On the positive side, they should treat you pretty well if you go to them for any work in the future.
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]
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I would call and say yes you are right I’ll take you up on your offer to take the bike back

BUT I did scratch and I insist you deduct that from the refund

Return it and buy online

I started buying my bikes via mail order from Bike Nashbar in the ‘80s and continue it today
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [david] [ In reply to ]
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david wrote:
I've gotten confused - is this a money issue, a moral issue, a didn't get what you want issue, or something else? If it is a money issue, go for the $500. In any event, you want to make sure you fully enjoy your new bike (at whatever price).

Ah read this after my reply above

GREAT job


Well worded email. Got a good result

I would have accepted it as well
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]
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avikoren1 wrote:
he just responded that he understands my frustration and is willing to take $500 off the price. Sounds fair, i think I'll take it.

Not blaming you or saying you shouldn’t have taken him up on it, but everyone has their price. Glad it was resolved to your liking.

Let food be thy medicine...
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]
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The more i read online and the responses here i realized that i may not like the one button shifter. No control over the front der seems odd. long story short i was OK with the build so it just came down to the deceit. I guess i gave him the benefit of greed (i mean doubt). we all make mistakes and i do think that he is basically (i hope) a decent guy. I really want to thank everyone here and the funny thing is as a i learned the truth i immediately thought of slowtwitch and getting the advice from you guys. thanks all, itv really helped.
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]
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avikoren1 wrote:
The more i read online and the responses here i realized that i may not like the one button shifter. No control over the front der seems odd. long story short i was OK with the build so it just came down to the deceit. I guess i gave him the benefit of greed (i mean doubt). we all make mistakes and i do think that he is basically (i hope) a decent guy. I really want to thank everyone here and the funny thing is as a i learned the truth i immediately thought of slowtwitch and getting the advice from you guys. thanks all, itv really helped.

1) It was a shitty thing to do, personally I would have returned it-my trust is worth more than $500.

2) My Speedconcept had the 2 button set up my PR6 has the 1 button-took me 2 rides to get use to the single, my set up is right goes down the cassette, left goes up-you can sync a Garmin to "beep" when the front derailer will be engaged, I have not done this yet, I know when it will happen, a buddy set his up this way and loves it.

Enjoy the new whip!
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [pots4] [ In reply to ]
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I'd take a full refund and take the money to another LBS that won't try and get tricky with you!
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
Gilliga wrote:

Hi,

I think you are worrying about it too much, the shifters you have are better with the two buttons and way more expensive then the one button option. The wheels seem to be about the same spec so not a big issue.

The main thing is you frame warranty is excellent as you have bough the bike new.

The owner could have perhaps talked to you in advance about this "custom build" to help you get the bike locally at the price point you were after, but I don't think there was any genuine harm intended in what he did behind the scenes.

The owner has offered to take it back and get a refund, it might just be best to do that now anyway as you aren't feeling good about the whole situation and a big part of training and racing well is being confident and happy with your equipment.


x2 with everything said here.

x3 and include the post talking about bringing in coffee, although I might make it a 6 pack of craft beer. Come in when you know they are slow. Tell him that you are enjoying the bike so far and ask him to walk you through all the parts so that you can thoroughly enjoy the bike. It sounds like the didn't try to cheat you out of anything but was simply trying to make the best deal he could. Nothing wrong with trying to maximize profits. Of course, he should have told you up front what he was doing.

The outcome from this approach will either be all the ammunition that you need to return the bike as a rip-off, or far more likely, you'll be very happy with what you got and make a friend out of it.
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Re: Need some opinion regarding ethics of my LBS with my new P3 Di2 purchase [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
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Personally I'd take that outcome. It's a shame that what happened happened but life's too short...

BTW I've noticed a lot of the top pros (Rohan Dennis included) choose to race the dual button shifters that you have on your bike. Newer isn't always better, just different. You can still setup what you have for the other shifting modes anyway.
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