Of course you didn't. Nobody did.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I am honestly perplexed by anyone who says they didnt vote for him in 2016, but could vote for him in 2020.

that's correct. It was the Russians.

Well some of the Republican agenda.

patentattorney wrote:

I am honestly perplexed by anyone who says they didnt vote for him in 2016, but could vote for him in 2020.

Because it's funny...

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

That is exactly would I will probably be doing. I recall the night I watched the Repub primaries and asked my wife how in the hell could a guy like Trump ever come close to getting the nomination and if he did, the repubs were handing the election to Clinton. He won and I swore I would not vote for him and sat the last election out. Didn't vote for her or him.

This time around I will probably vote for Trump. In the last four years the economy has been great, unemployment is low, we have been at relative peace ( if you overlook the Mideast which will never go away), the SC has more conservatives than four years ago and we are living in a time of prosperity and freedom.

True we probably would have the same last four years if Obama had stayed in office (with the exception of the SC appointments) but I say why shake up the apple cart. The Dems are way too far to the left to even consider giving them the keys to the castle.

2016 was the first time I have sat out a Presidential election since I have been eligible to vote. I don't plan to sit out again.

I found not casting a vote and then watching what happens in the country knowing I cant defend or support with a clear conscience more frustrating than casting a vote and explaining/defending or apologizing later.

Which is why I'm honestly perplexed by anyone who cant and wont cast a vote for him or anyone else acting so deranged about it.

When Slowman asked people which Ds they would vote for in place of him in 2020 that are currently running my answer, thus far, is Biden.

Depending on who the candidate on the other side is I may very well vote for them. If another atrocious candidate is put up like the last one (which I find hard to believe) I will most likely vote for Trump.

But I wont sit it out again.

Does that make it any less perplexing??

I mean to some degree it is perplexing still, unless your point of view has changed (which it seems it has).

Initially you say you dont want to rock the boat, and are fine the way things are continuing. But in 2016, you didnt want the "extension of obama" Clinton.

You also say you like conservative judges. This was always going to be the case with a republican candidate.

So it is strange that you now dont want to shake up the cart, and changed how much you value judges. Maybe your urge to not rock the boat with the extension of obama was evened out by your value of conservative judges.

It is also strange to me that these changes are enough to overcome your urge to not vote in 2016.

Like did you vote for clinton? (economy) gore (to not rock the boat), Bush? (to not rock the vote + conservative judges), Obama (needed change after bush), Obama (not wanting to rock the boat + much better economy?)

But at the the end of the day, its still if people didnt vote for trump in 2016, what has he shown that warrants a vote now. Has the "need" to vote overcome your conviction for voting for someone you thought was horrible. Has trump's actions overcome your initial reactions to your initial hesitations about voting?

Definitely didn't want to vote in Clinton as she would not have put conservatives on the Court.

I can see your last point about not voting that time but voting this time. That is largely driven by the crazies running on the left. My vote would be just as much to keep a Warren or god forbid Booker, Sanders out as it would be to keep Trump in.

I think most republicans agree that literally any republican President would be sitting in exactly the same situation as Trump because of those policies, minus all the mindbendingly childish, stupid, petulant, immoral behavior, which is why defense of Trump in particular is baffling to literally everyone else.

But I could be wrong.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Some of us didn't and don't believe Trump is Republican/Conservative. Add to that the absolutely abhorrent human he is. And sitting out 2016 was an option.

Point is he is still an abhorrent human. Just as Bill Clinton was. But he has demonstrated a willingness to employ conservative thinking at times (seldom but there; regulation and judge appts being examples).

If faced with another unpalatable choice as some of us were in 2016, I'm just telling you some will pull the lever for the possibility of things continuing in the same direction with the possibility of adding 2 more SC seats etc.

I may very well be one of them. If I am I will say so here and spend 4 years defending what buffoonery I can as a consequence.

see my post to you below.

Probably so, but Trump is the guy sitting in the chair. You defend the results, not the guy making stupid statements, acting like a child. If you are a conservative leaning person, the results from Trump are acceptable. Who cares about who he is as a person, what he says on twitter, who he is banging in the backroom, or how many times he puts his foot in his mouth.

Is the country doing well? Yes? then move on and vote for him again. Not a very hard analysis.

Your other option is to vote for folks that want to come in and turn the country upside down. Free healthcare, free college, reparations (talk about dividing a nation), climate policy that kills jobs, open boarders, etc. That is a lot of change at one time.

Don't pretend you care about a president dividing a country.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

You got me. Really don't care about that one, should have left it off.



But might I suggest there is a difference between one person ( a president on twitter) saying something stupid and an entire house, senate, president signing a law telling one race they have to pay another.

Just a suggestion.

I guess what is just strange to me, is that if people had the conviction to not vote beforehand. What changed now.

Clinton was the most centrist dem running in years, so your desire to keep a leftest out has to be minimal. (when taking into rocking the boat).

In my opinion, not voting is always a third option, and one that should be weighted equally as the others.

To me it is just strange that the equation to put trump over the top to move from not voting --> voting, is strange. If conservative judges are important, why werent they before. If you think trump's economy is great now, almost all news on the right was running that trump was going to supercharge the economy. (most centralist news sources now say we are going to dovetail into aroudn 1% expansion for the next couple of years, so I am going to assume your news sources are more right leaning based on your love for trump's economy).

So beforehand you had 1) conservative judges, 2) economy the right was going to say was going to be super charged (two points you value) vs. not rocking the boat = not voting.

Now this has moved to voting. Where if anything people have said trumps economy policies may cause slow growth in the future. That pure equation makes no sense to me. If you were REALLY concerned about SC seats, you KNEW there was one to be filled.

Who cares? I'd assume the same conservatives who railed against Bill Clinton for his degrading of the office, despite his relatively conservative record and social and economic successes in office.


Fallacy of false choice. You can demand better of your party, and maybe just think a little further down the road in terms of saving your party, and support a primary challenge. Or you can tie yourselves to the disgraceful legacy of Donald Trump, Republicanâ„¢ .

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

throw in the nuts running on the left this time around and it may help.

If Clinton would have been elected it would not have been the end of the world, as unpalatable as it was. If Sanders or Warren gets in with a Dem house and maybe a Dem Senate, we could become Venezuela.

Throw in the fact Trump being an idiot every day on twitter has somewhat numbed the effect of his idiocy. When he started running I was just getting a full glimpse of how stupid he was. Now he has been in office, I have seen how his stupidity has not caused a catastrophe and the status quo is very good.

Ok i can buy someone voting for him now because they didnt think he was a "true conservative", the bufoonary goes out the window because it is worse now than what we people would expect.

It is still strange that 1) now you KNOW he will be a buffoon in office. 2) You KNOW his stances are hard line conservative.

You previously didnt vote for him because you thought his conservative views were an act? This was worth sitting out for? You would have to be fairly hardline conservative for that to be an issue, and if that was an issue you are voting GOP anyway.

Just a quick follow on my earlier thoughts as I had already responded to your post via someone else:

right now I think the biggest mistake Dems can make is discounting the number of "never Trumpers" or people like me who were basically a "never Trump" without using the term, who sat out the last election but will not sit out again either because of the feeling I expressed, because of the things he has done since elected that some of us were suspect he would never do (again, see SC candidates as example), or because of the possible candidate being put up by the Dems (see ACE point which to me would only involve 1-4 of them).

I would have voted for 1992 Bill Clinton over 2016 Donald Trump. Both of which I didn't "like". I would not vote for Bernie Sanders over Trump in 2020 because of where Sanders wants to take the country, vs. where I think Trump will at least "keep" the country, even though I am quite certain Bernie is a better "man" than Trump.

I would vote for Joe Biden over Trump in 2020. Thus far he's the only one though I admit it is hard to wade through all 20+

right now I think the biggest mistake Trump is making is his position(s) relative to the subject of this thread are costing him far more votes from those that held their nose and voted for him over Hillary vs. those in the "never Trump" camp above.

To win he will need to get the "never trump" group to return to the polls while keeping the nose holders. One without the other does him no good.

This is somewhat different. But it seems like originally you thought trumps stupidity would be detrimental so you dindt want to vote because of the harm.

Now you dont think his stupidity is actual detrimental so you can vote for him.

That without the other factors you brought in, I dont agree with, but I wouldnt be perplexed by.

Perhaps Clinton really taught the Repubs you can get BJ's in the oval office and still be a decent president. Maybe we should thank him for no one caring about a person's character anymore.

There is no legitimate option to primary Trump. You know the media and the left would have a field day if the repubs are forced to primary Trump claiming why we should ever trust a group that had to primary a sitting president. At this point, you ride him out, hope the results are the same and distance from his personal flaws and character issues.

Color me hardline then. I have voted in every Presidential election since 1984 and have always voted Republican. Sometimes more enthusiastically than others. But until Trump I also believed the people I was voting for had some degree of conservative thinking.

I think/thought Trump has self serving thinking. I think Trump could/should have run as a Dem just as easily as a Rep.

You all say Trump is a lying sack of shit now (and I don't disagree). Is it so hard to believe that then I thought he would talk a little conservative game and then go full David Souter on the Rep party as soon as elected. Bare in mind Roberts had just struck down the Obama Care appeal so you will have to pardon me for being a little suspicious at the time as a conservative.

If I voted for him in 2020, could he become Barak Obama the next day. Perhaps. But he has in fact demonstrated some conservative action in last 2 years. More, in fact, than I believed he would.


As to Hillary, you may or may not be right about her centrist ways. But:

1) Bill held himself out to be centrist too in order to win an election. And he wasn't I don't hold it against him, I'm just saying like Bill she would be whatever you want her to be.
2) speaking only of her politics glosses over what was occurring from an ethical standpoint in her life at the time of the 2016 election. From Bengasi to the email server to Debbie Schultz to the outright theft of the nomination etc etc. I get that it is ancient history now but there was a lot of baggage then.

So if your thought was trump wasnt really a conservative, just one in disguise. Sure. I can see that. That is kinda a crazy thought to me, but I can at least see that. Still crazy to me that would be a reason for a hardliner to not vote previously.