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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
scorpio516 wrote:
slowguy wrote:
The core issue, certainly as expressed by Sen Sanders, is whether or not you believe a fundamental core right of citizens in a democratic society is the right to have a vote in your representation.

Which also is informed on how you view criminal justice. Is the point rehabilitation, or is punishment and removal from society?

If you think criminal justice is to punish the criminal, why don't we just execute every criminal? Why don't we take a page from our history and send every criminal to a moon colony or space station or Georgia?


while that point is germane to the overall discussion, it's not germane to slowguy's point. one way you can parse people is by how they approach values. whether a person's values are fungible. i don't agree with rand paul on very much. i agree with bernie sanders on slightly more. but they're examples of one kind of person: one who is consistent in his values; and who doesn't bend much based on the popularity of one's values.

even if bernie didn't believe in the concept of redemption; even if he believed every inmate should be executed; he'd still believe every inmate has the right to vote up to the point he gets the chair, because he believes it's a fundamental constitutional right. i don't know that i agree with him. but i can certainly see the argument.

Don't you think you need to adhere to the laws of our society to maintain your core rights? Don't you think some of these rights should be lost or suspended if you are convicted of breaking the laws of our society? What kind of warped value is it that endorses the idea of Dylann Roof, etc etc etc having the right to vote for his choice of president in 2020? This is just one reason why "Crazy Bernie" deserves his nickname.....and why he will never get elected to lead this country.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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gphin305 wrote:
Don't you think some of these rights should be lost or suspended if you are convicted of breaking the laws of our society? What kind of warped value is it that endorses the idea of Dylann Roof, etc etc etc having the right to vote for his choice of president in 2020?

As I pointed out above there are reasons to take away the right to freedom or the right to own guns. Nobody in this thread has been able to identify a reason to take away their right to vote other than they are bad people. Wouldn't you agree that taking away their right to free speech, religion or the advice of council would be wrong?. Naming the most despicable convict you can think of doesn't constitute an argument.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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gphin305 wrote:
What kind of warped value is it that endorses the idea of Dylann Roof, etc etc etc .

Inalienable is something that is unable to be taken away. The roots are obvious: "alien" meaning belonging to another and "in" meaning not. Where does your right to vote come from? You have to choose: the government or the people. It is interesting because a tenant of conservatism is that the Government has too much power. But here you are, a professed conservative (I think, apologies if I am wrong) arguing that the Government is the source of one of our nation's most venerable power. What Sanders is saying, hopefully, is that the power to vote is inalienable and can be neither granted nor taken away by the Government.

Of course that is NOT what he is saying. Because for Bernie Sanders' core philosophies to work, he has to believe the Government is capable of discernment. For example: Because there is a finite amount of resources that the country can allocate towards healthcare the Government would be the best at discerning on how it should be allocated. Surely a Government capable of that level of discernment could be entrusted with developing a voting system?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
gphin305 wrote:

Don't you think some of these rights should be lost or suspended if you are convicted of breaking the laws of our society? What kind of warped value is it that endorses the idea of Dylann Roof, etc etc etc having the right to vote for his choice of president in 2020?


As I pointed out above there are reasons to take away the right to freedom or the right to own guns. Nobody in this thread has been able to identify a reason to take away their right to vote other than they are bad people. Wouldn't you agree that taking away their right to free speech, religion or the advice of council would be wrong?. Naming the most despicable convict you can think of doesn't constitute an argument.[/quote]

Sure it does......because that what Bernie is promoting. Guess you missed my earlier comment. A successful democratic society provides certain rights to its citizens. IN RETURN, a citizen is required to obey the laws of that democratic society. If you become a danger to society and society determines you need to be behind bars and not be part of society....you lose rights.

And I find it interesting that no one yet here has come forward yet to confirm.......with a simple yes or no, that they feel Dylann Roof, Cruz, etc etc should still have the right to vote. Just more discussion and questions about "rights". Including you.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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gphin305 wrote:

Sure it does......because that what Bernie is promoting. Guess you missed my earlier comment. A successful democratic society provides certain rights to its citizens. IN RETURN, a citizen is required to obey the laws of that democratic society. If you become a danger to society and society determines you need to be behind bars and not be part of society....you lose rights.

And I find it interesting that no one yet here has come forward yet to confirm.......with a simple yes or no, that they feel Dylann Roof, Cruz, etc etc should still have the right to vote. Just more discussion and questions about "rights". Including you.

You need to read the constitution.

Also many people have commented on whether or not convicts should be aloud to vote.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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gphin305 wrote:
Don't you think you need to adhere to the laws of our society to maintain your core rights? Don't you think some of these rights should be lost or suspended if you are convicted of breaking the laws of our society? What kind of warped value is it that endorses the idea of Dylann Roof, etc etc etc having the right to vote for his choice of president in 2020? This is just one reason why "Crazy Bernie" deserves his nickname.....and why he will never get elected to lead this country.

He's regarded as 'crazy' because he believes that health care and affordable higher ed should be available to more people - and - now because he does not want to be that guy who says 'this person can not vote' or 'these people can not vote'. Bernie may be crazy but I hope he's more of the direction this country is moving towards.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [LorenzoP] [ In reply to ]
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LorenzoP wrote:
gphin305 wrote:

Don't you think you need to adhere to the laws of our society to maintain your core rights? Don't you think some of these rights should be lost or suspended if you are convicted of breaking the laws of our society? What kind of warped value is it that endorses the idea of Dylann Roof, etc etc etc having the right to vote for his choice of president in 2020? This is just one reason why "Crazy Bernie" deserves his nickname.....and why he will never get elected to lead this country.


He's regarded as 'crazy' because he believes that health care and affordable higher ed should be available to more people - and - now because he does not want to be that guy who says 'this person can not vote' or 'these people can not vote'. Bernie may be crazy but I hope he's more of the direction this country is moving towards.


Thanks for the contribution.....and interesting to see you support socialism......thats your "right". But sadly so misguided. But I can add you to the growing list of responders who have failed to answer the question. Do you agree with Bernie, that dispicable individuals like Cruz, Roof, Tsarneav, and others like them should be able to continue participating in our society by having the right to vote for our elected officials. Once again....a simple yes or no. Show your true colors.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
gphin305 wrote:


Sure it does......because that what Bernie is promoting. Guess you missed my earlier comment. A successful democratic society provides certain rights to its citizens. IN RETURN, a citizen is required to obey the laws of that democratic society. If you become a danger to society and society determines you need to be behind bars and not be part of society....you lose rights.

And I find it interesting that no one yet here has come forward yet to confirm.......with a simple yes or no, that they feel Dylann Roof, Cruz, etc etc should still have the right to vote. Just more discussion and questions about "rights". Including you.


You need to read the constitution.

Also many people have commented on whether or not convicts should be aloud to vote.

Thats not my question......read again.


And, please show me where in the constitution does it say convicted mass murderers should have the right to vote?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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The constitution does not give you rights as you stated. It simply does not infringe upon your rights.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
The constitution does not give you rights as you stated. It simply does not infringe upon your rights.
Nice try with the word games......never stated. And you continue to avoid answering my question.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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gphin305 wrote:
BLeP wrote:
The constitution does not give you rights as you stated. It simply does not infringe upon your rights.

Nice try with the word games......never stated. And you continue to avoid answering my question.

Actually that's exactly what you said.

gphin305 wrote:
A successful democratic society provides certain rights to its citizens.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
gphin305 wrote:
BLeP wrote:
The constitution does not give you rights as you stated. It simply does not infringe upon your rights.

Nice try with the word games......never stated. And you continue to avoid answering my question.


Actually that's exactly what you said.

gphin305 wrote:
A successful democratic society provides certain rights to its citizens.

Hmmm, still don't see anything about "constitution" giving rights. Guess you made the mistake of assuming?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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gphin305 wrote:
BLeP wrote:
gphin305 wrote:
BLeP wrote:
The constitution does not give you rights as you stated. It simply does not infringe upon your rights.

Nice try with the word games......never stated. And you continue to avoid answering my question.


Actually that's exactly what you said.

gphin305 wrote:
A successful democratic society provides certain rights to its citizens.


Hmmm, still don't see anything about "constitution" giving rights. Guess you made the mistake of assuming?

You tell me then... how does a successful democratic society provide certain rights to its citizens?

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
gphin305 wrote:
BLeP wrote:
gphin305 wrote:
BLeP wrote:
The constitution does not give you rights as you stated. It simply does not infringe upon your rights.

Nice try with the word games......never stated. And you continue to avoid answering my question.


Actually that's exactly what you said.

gphin305 wrote:
A successful democratic society provides certain rights to its citizens.


Hmmm, still don't see anything about "constitution" giving rights. Guess you made the mistake of assuming?


You tell me then... how does a successful democratic society provide certain rights to its citizens?

If you want to change the subject of this thread, you might try starting a new one. Still waiting for you to tell me you agree with Bernie and criminals like Tsarnaev, Roof, and Cruz deserve the right to vote.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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gphin305 wrote:

If you want to change the subject of this thread, you might try starting a new one. Still waiting for you to tell me you agree with Bernie and criminals like Tsarnaev, Roof, and Cruz deserve the right to vote.

Who is avoiding questions now?

I don't think that convicted criminals should be allowed to vote while incarcerated. I also wouldn't vote for someone like Bernie Sanders.

I also don't see why you are so focused on those particular criminals.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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Since you refuse answer my question, let me phrase it as simply as I can. We allow a felon to maintain his right to a lawyer but we deny his right to vote. What is the criteria for selecting which freedoms to deny or allow?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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he is busy right now biting off more than able to chew.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
Since you refuse answer my question, let me phrase it as simply as I can. We allow a felon to maintain his right to a lawyer but we deny his right to vote. What is the criteria for selecting which freedoms to deny or allow?

A convicted sex offender in jail should not be able to cast a vote for a candidate who wants to soften sex offender laws.

A convicted gun trafficker in jail should not be able to cast a vote for a candidate who wants to soften gun regulations.

A convicted Wall Street...

A convicted drug dealer...

I'm just guessing that's the argument.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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I also don't see why you are so focused on those particular criminals.



It's because he fully supports the criminal in the Whitehouse but wants yo to look over there...

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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
Since you refuse answer my question, let me phrase it as simply as I can. We allow a felon to maintain his right to a lawyer but we deny his right to vote. What is the criteria for selecting which freedoms to deny or allow?
Pretty simple if you want to spend two seconds thinking about it. Do I really need to tell you?
Still waiting for you and anyone else to tell me they want to see Tsarnaev, Roof, and Cruz have the right to vote.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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gphin305 wrote:
Thom wrote:
Since you refuse answer my question, let me phrase it as simply as I can. We allow a felon to maintain his right to a lawyer but we deny his right to vote. What is the criteria for selecting which freedoms to deny or allow?

Pretty simple if you want to spend two seconds thinking about it. Do I really need to tell you?
Still waiting for you and anyone else to tell me they want to see Tsarnaev, Roof, and Cruz have the right to vote.


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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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DJRed wrote:
Thom wrote:
Since you refuse answer my question, let me phrase it as simply as I can. We allow a felon to maintain his right to a lawyer but we deny his right to vote. What is the criteria for selecting which freedoms to deny or allow?


A convicted sex offender in jail should not be able to cast a vote for a candidate who wants to soften sex offender laws.

A convicted gun trafficker in jail should not be able to cast a vote for a candidate who wants to soften gun regulations.

A convicted Wall Street...

A convicted drug dealer...

I'm just guessing that's the argument.

That's fair, although I'm not sure I agree. Thanks for attempting to answer an honest questions that someone else keeps dodging.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:
gphin305 wrote:
Thom wrote:
Since you refuse answer my question, let me phrase it as simply as I can. We allow a felon to maintain his right to a lawyer but we deny his right to vote. What is the criteria for selecting which freedoms to deny or allow?

Pretty simple if you want to spend two seconds thinking about it. Do I really need to tell you?
Still waiting for you and anyone else to tell me they want to see Tsarnaev, Roof, and Cruz have the right to vote.



Kay, you remind me of someone who got cut from their high school forensics team and is now trying desperately to make up for it. Try another strategy, please.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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Here's a question for you. Why do you think that this board is full of Bernie Sanders voters? Has anyone in the LR said that they would want Bernie Sanders to be the President? If they have, I haven't seen it.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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