My wife and I lived paycheck to paycheck for far too long, and absolutely, we could have cut if we had tried hard enough. But we weren't disciplined to say "no" to ourselves, until we finally saw the light and made some big changes in our spending habits. Would love to have the first 10 years of my working life back in that arena, but thankfully we made the changes when we did. And, truth be told, it really wasn't that painful to live within our means and finally start saving money, just discipline to not buy things we really didn't need.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Nobody making over $100,000 a year has to have finances that tight. They just choose to spend.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I worked a hail claim for a couple that had a $5000 deductible. In conversation with them and later their contractor, she earned about $250k a year, and he was an engineer. They didn't have enough money to pay for their deductible. She drove a BMW and their children went to a private school, but they couldn't afford to get their home repaired.

the stat i hear the most often is 40% of families can't cover a $400 emergency

it's from a study by the Fed Reserve back in 2016. I've also heard that 50% of all people live paycheck-to-paycheck

at the upper end, one'd figure that the stories are more anecdotal than they are representative

Why do you hate America?

This concept is mind boggling and scary. It doesn't take much to avoid living paycheck to paycheck if you're making that kind of money. You don't have to build a complex monthly budget or scrimp and save. You just have to not spend stupidly.

I am by no means a particularly financially savvy guy, and I frequently think I should be doing more with my money, but I manage to put money into savings every month, make sure my credit cards are paid off, etc, and never have to worry about whether my paycheck will cover my bills. And this is with two mortgages, and military pay (albeit an officer's pay). It's not like I'm rolling in riches, Scrooge McDuck style.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Because its like living in the Veggie Tales Stuff Mart episode.



Of course that leads to mental health issues.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

How many of those care caused by health care bills? Health care is the biggest cause of bankruptcies, so I would not be shocked if some people have avoided bankruptcy, but are barely staying above water.

I don’t know how people do it. My cousin and her husband have come close to losing their home a couple of times. Have almost no equity in it despite owning it for 30 some years and now he’s driving a big new looking F250.

He fell off the roof last summer cleaning gutters and broke his ankle amongst other injuries. Surprised I didn’t hear that almost pushed them over the edge.

I don't have much sympathy for those making over $100k who live paycheck to paycheck.

But back in the day, I wasn't getting paid a lot as a 2Lt in the USAF. I married Ms. Tostig while I was going through F-4 RTU, and that entailed some extra expenses (1st month's rent, cleaning deposit, AT&T phone deposit, some furniture, dishes, pots and pans, etc.) while setting up an apartment in Victorville, CA. Two months later, it was time to move to Las Vegas. More deposits (up front cash) to be made while still waiting for the Victorville deposits to be refunded. No financial help from mom and dad, not because they were jerks, but 22-year olds were expected to support themselves back then. Ms. Tostig and I had a week or so to wait until payday (the USAF paid us at the beginning of each month and again on the 15th). Must have had less than $100 in the checking account, and this was before anyone (base commissary or local grocery stores) would take plastic for groceries. We got by on peanut butter and butter sandwiches for a week.

Things got much better after that, but it's no fun to be in that situation.

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

About ten years ago, I was reading a library book when someone's bank statement fell out. Nobody I knew (I forget if their name was even on it...) but anyway, they had a line of credit with about $180k owing on it, and they were evidently making *minimum* payments on it as well as on their credit card. So they might be scrimping by on actual day to day expenses, but whatever they had bought in the past had put them in a world of hurt relative to the bank, and the bank was taking all their money, month after month.

I think that generally, the currently low interest rates (at least in Canada and the US), and the banks' willingness to extend credit, have put many people into a really bad situation where they splurged to get stuff (including maybe a house bigger or more expensive than they could really afford) and now they can't get out of the interest trap. It's worse for anyone that got hooked by a paycheck lender for any reason... it floors me that those loan sharks are allowed to have a legitimate store front and effectively charge about 2400% interest.

What is needed is some education in high school on how credit cards and any other financing really works - evidently too many young kids think it's free money until it's too late.

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Less is more.

I agree with you completely that there should be a class in high school on personal finance. I think many of the poor in the U.S. are poor because they make terrible decisions with their money. I'm not blaming them because it's likely that their parents were also made terrible financial decisions.

I just wonder what there expenses really are and if there is not places they could cut they just don't want to.


I lived on a bike and in a tent for a few years and then in a 3rd world country so really have a good grasp of what you "need" verses what you "want". As long as those are mixed up then there will always be people who live paycheck to paycheck.


Most people now "need" the latest smart phone, television, cable, Netflix or have to go to a coffee shop each day and those small things alone can add up to significant savings in a year. Kids are learning at a young age that they need a phone and computer to keep up with their classmates so I would guess the problem will get much worse in the years ahead.

Conversation I had with an old coworker who had serious money troubles. Both families were making around $60K at the time (8 years ago).

"My brother and his wife make what you do. Here's how they manage their budget:

They have a used car and a really old used car. You bought two new cars this year.
They have a small flat screen TV that was a gift. You bought a large flat screen for $1500.
They had a computer built for $300. When your wife's computer broke, you gave her your $2000 Macbook and bought a new $2500 macbook.
They have flip phones. You buy a new Iphone whenever a new model comes out with 5 more pixels on the camera.
They don't have any expensive non essentials. You tried to save money on gas by spending $5K on a scooter."

A couple of years later I saw on facebook that he traded his scooter in and bought a Harley and had a concrete basketball court poured into his back yard.


Over spending is a disease that most Americans are afflicted with.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Median household income in the US is $59,039. Why would the 80% number be surprising?

And living paycheck to paycheck could mean different things. It still feels like I am living paycheck to paycheck even though I am not, because the thought of being without a job in my 50's terrifies me since it could jack up retirement. So if you asked me I may very well say yes because I want/need every paycheck to do what I want to do when I want to do it.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

My first wife and I lived that way. We were poor students or so long that we went a bit crazy with "the wants" once we started to make money and deluded ourselves that having credit was the same as having money in the bank. We were making above average incomes but were spending like drunken sailors and were always broke at the end of the month. We got ourselves into trouble but fortunately we had a bought a building just before a huge real estate boom. We sold it at a good profit and bailed ourselves out. Just pure good luck but a lesson learned. Still wouldn't call myself a tight ass fiscal conservative, but have learned since then that living beyond your means is like having a loaded gun cocked against your head.

It's not inconceivable

My wife and I made good money and we saved a lot of it.

Then, and it does not matter what order this happened in, I lost my job, an apartment burnt down and an apartment I committed to buy was delivered nearly two years late making it a little tricky to get a mortgage with no job

The burnt down apartment took more than a year to deliver the first insurance payment. It took 30 months to receive all my money.

So, I'm in the situation where I'm haemorrhaging cash at the rate of 5-6k a month with zero income.

Three months savings is insufficient for anything.

I can honestly say that money related stress is the worst and can make you ill.

We are okay now, but it does not surprise me how many people are pay check to pay check.

I don't think that's what hardly anyone else considers "living paycheck to paycheck." It's a pretty commonly understood phrase. It means you rely on every single bit of your paycheck to meet all you financial obligations, every time you get a paycheck. No extra money to go into savings or investments. If you can afford that, you are, by definition, not living paycheck to paycheck.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I'm not surprised 80% are living paycheck to paycheck. As jpo said, the median household income is $59K. Subtract all necessary expenses and the math doesn't work out for many of those people to save 3-6 months of expenses for an emergency, especially if they have kids. Plus, they're supposed to save for retirement.

I'm not saying there isn't an over-spending problem for many, but income is the biggest issue for most of them.

I've held the same opinion for years. My University has recognized this problem. The sort of intro to college 1 credit course all freshman take now includes sections on the basics of personal finance and another one on health (diet, exercise, etc.).

My wife's cousins grew up in one of the most affluent counties in the country. They had courses on the stock market in high school.

I brought this up in the other thread. Our starter home mortgage and childcare for one kid is around $75,000 a year. That doesn't account for food, gas, etc. We are both pretty frugal, have good jobs and work hard. While we are not paycheck to paycheck, a few months without work would be very financially painful. Life is expensive in some places.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I'd be curious to see a study that shows how effective this is. I suspect that it will only be marginally effective because humans are frequently impulsive and want what other people have.

Give those people credit... and boom. Idiocy abounds.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Yes. And you choose to live in Victoria. That's cool but you don't have to live there.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I agree. We know from the health literature that just giving people about disease, health, fitness is not all that effective if achieving the desired outcome means changing their lifestyle.