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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [Mudge] [ In reply to ]
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if the pavement is crappy, you have a winner :)
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [carlosflanders] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like average temps for that time are 70's/80's? Is that right? Any risk of really hot weather? (which I struggle in).
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
wacomme wrote:
Anything around Colorado Springs is hilly. I like Test Track Road in Pueblo, but that's probably too far away too . . . and it has a few hills.


I've been looking at google street view and it looks like there are a lot of flatish paved rural roads east of CO Springs. Am I getting the wrong impression?

Oh boy, you don't want to go there. Out that way is the biggest population of over-the-top aggressive, cyclist-hating exurban hillbillies in the entire state. Propose closing down the roads for a day of TTs and they'd be at the end of their driveways with a full box of rock salt shotgun shells.

I know this sounds extreme but most people around there are real assholes.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [T-wrecks] [ In reply to ]
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That's why you hire cops....

And do they usually close the roads? I've never been to a race where that was the case.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Looks like average temps for that time are 70's/80's? Is that right? Any risk of really hot weather? (which I struggle in).

50s to 80s is the range. If it is hot, it will be dry... but that isn't common in Aug. If it rains (this is monsoon season) you might get really cold (low 50s)... and get hailed on. Rain is most common in the afternoon. Aug is the least windy month.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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A friend of mine from Atlanta sent me these links. Two options each for the road race and TT. Based on the account that created them I'd say that the RR and TT course will come from these links.

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/26975265

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/26975279

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/26975370

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/26975995

Both TT options have around 1,000' of climbing or so. So I don't think it will be an Watts/CdA contest. Aero of course will be important, but you're going to have to bring some horsepower also.

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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Very interesting. No uphill finish for either RR course.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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nslckevin wrote:
Both TT options have around 1,000' of climbing or so. So I don't think it will be an Watts/CdA contest. Aero of course will be important, but you're going to have to bring some horsepower also.

That is a chunk of climbing for a TT. Pacing that is going to be really important and difficult for those combing from sea level because you will have to guess your power adjustments at altitude. I agree with your horsepower assessment AND don't bring too much extra weight. I better switch to light beer now.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [TPerry] [ In reply to ]
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I reached out to Chuck Hodge, chief of racing and events for USA Cycling, and asked about the course this morning. He was kind enough to respond immediately with the following:
We are going to be meeting with local agencies to finalize details early in 2019 - although we have preliminary agreements on our chosen course. Our goal is for a flat 20k and 40k and we are looking at certifying for records.

We will produce course maps and related information once we have our final agreements in place.

Chuck
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [TPerry] [ In reply to ]
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TPerry wrote:
I reached out to Chuck Hodge, chief of racing and events for USA Cycling, and asked about the course this morning. He was kind enough to respond immediately with the following:
We are going to be meeting with local agencies to finalize details early in 2019 - although we have preliminary agreements on our chosen course. Our goal is for a flat 20k and 40k and we are looking at certifying for records.

We will produce course maps and related information once we have our final agreements in place.

Chuck

That's pretty exciting. I like flat and fast TT courses!

Thanks.

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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Both of these two TT proposed routes are horrible. The first has like 16 corners! The Second has a very fast long down hill. Its easy to hit over 50mph on it. Last year during our Road Race there, I was running Hed Jet 6's and as the winds picked up in the last two laps, as it does in the afternoon next next to the foothills, I was getting pushed all over the place. I had to sit up and then ride back onto the group. I can only imagine how bad it could be descending at 50+ mph with a disc and deep wheels. Someone is going to get hurt really bad. Flat 20k and 40K routes that are certified would be wonderful.

BoulderCyclingCoach.com
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, I'm really hoping the two courses you posted as possibilities won't be used. The Air Force Academy is at over 7000 ft in altitude and both courses have a ton of climbing. I don't believe they would be worth the time to certify for records-- as USA Cycling said they planned on doing-- since it would be really tough to crack a record on those courses. Also weren't the courses posted as possibilities 30 KM? If so, that would not make sense, since records are recognized at 40 KM and 20 KM depending upon age. But since you have a few of those national records, I don't have to tell you that! :)
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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I'm the Thunderbird race director. I'm pretty sure Nationals will use a different course of the Air Force Academy.

Michael
nslckevin wrote:
Yeti racer wrote:
Is this TT per qualification only?



Yes, you need to buy a license and travel to Colorado Springs. If you can afford those things, you are qualified. :-)


Seriously, all you need is a license. For the TT you can be a cat 5. For the road events you'd need to be a cat 3 unless you're 60 I believe then cat 5 is okay.


I did a bit of looking through the BRAC web site to see what races were held in Colorado Springs. If I had to guess, this is likely to be the road race course.


https://www.strava.com/routes/13429290



They held the Junior and Master state RR championship on this course last year on 8/12. Also worth noting that Pikes Peak is traditionally on this weekend. Was 8/11 last year. So if all you want to race is the TT, do that and then to the Pikes Peak fondo on the weekend. Just bring appropriate gearing for a mile at 10% at almost 14,000' above sea level.


The road course looks like a race of attrition. Not particularly hard, but will wear on you. That and it peaks out at ~7,200' above sea level. But the climb only averages about 3%.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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I think this is fairly accurate.

Another possibility for the TT is around Hanover (east on the prairies).

Michael
grumpier.mike wrote:
I have raced at Air Force probably five times and there have been about four different coarses. The one consistent thing about them all is that they will be a mixture of long'ish shallow climbs and maybe a couple of short punchy climbs of the 75 yard variety. Toss in one or two fast docents with a corner or two and there was probably 2 miles of dead flat stuff by the football stadium a couple years back. Nothing like the long climbs that decided the Utah and Bend races.

My guess would be that the route will be determined by what is available. They will be busy tormenting the incoming cadets in August and the fall sports teams may be practicing, so I would be surprised if they ran through campus. I think the loop you showed on Strava would limit access to the visitor center. My guess would be they would use the upper part of the Strava loop and run the route down and across the lower sports fields and by the pool, but that is a total WAG.

The one commonality is that they have never been pure climbers coarses. They are consistently hard and you will need to ride intelligently to do well, especially if it is breezy. I would guess it will be a race of attrition

I have no idea what they could do at Fort Carson for the TT. I have never been there. The outside bet would be to run the TT in South Park. Probably 20 years ago they ran a National record challenge up there. Bostick, Frye, Colby... were all there. There was new pavement, but the weather was unusually bad on both occasions. That would be a super fast coarse on a good air day.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Flattish is being overly nice. Nothing is flat around Colorado Springs, but out east is flatter. I do think around Hanover is a distinct possibility - hilly, but flattish for the area

Michael.
rruff wrote:
wacomme wrote:
Anything around Colorado Springs is hilly. I like Test Track Road in Pueblo, but that's probably too far away too . . . and it has a few hills.


I've been looking at google street view and it looks like there are a lot of flatish paved rural roads east of CO Springs. Am I getting the wrong impression?
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Hot weather is possible, as is cold weather. Colorado's weather is bipolar, even on the same day.

Michael
trail wrote:
Looks like average temps for that time are 70's/80's? Is that right? Any risk of really hot weather? (which I struggle in).
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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But "flat" is relative for Colorado. I don't know anything around here that's flat like Moriarty, NM.

Michael
nslckevin wrote:
TPerry wrote:
I reached out to Chuck Hodge, chief of racing and events for USA Cycling, and asked about the course this morning. He was kind enough to respond immediately with the following:
We are going to be meeting with local agencies to finalize details early in 2019 - although we have preliminary agreements on our chosen course. Our goal is for a flat 20k and 40k and we are looking at certifying for records.

We will produce course maps and related information once we have our final agreements in place.

Chuck


That's pretty exciting. I like flat and fast TT courses!

Thanks.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [wacomme] [ In reply to ]
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Flatness is nice, but if you want a fast course it's also important to have an eye to prevailing wind direction and intensity (usually increasing in the morning, and decreasing in the evening). And if there is steady wind, it's faster to have a headwind on the downhill stretch, and a tailwind on the uphill. Of course, good pavement is important. Smooth asphalt, not chipseal. Even smooth chipseal is slow.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Chipseal is the norm around here. Most of the hills out east are lumpy; there may or may not be an overall uphill or downhill direction. August is generally light on wind, but being out east, there will likely be some wind - generally a southern-ish wind, but not always, and that often changes from morning to afternoon. Expect the wind to change direction and intensity, unexpectedly too. Lake sailing in Colorado is a sailor's nightmare. There is little predictability.
rruff wrote:
Flatness is nice, but if you want a fast course it's also important to have an eye to prevailing wind direction and intensity (usually increasing in the morning, and decreasing in the evening). And if there is steady wind, it's faster to have a headwind on the downhill stretch, and a tailwind on the uphill. Of course, good pavement is important. Smooth asphalt, not chipseal. Even smooth chipseal is slow.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [wacomme] [ In reply to ]
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Well parts of South Park are pan flat. It has been too many years since I drove over to the north end from the Springs, but that might be a possibility.


wacomme wrote:
But "flat" is relative for Colorado. I don't know anything around here that's flat like Moriarty, NM.

Michael
nslckevin wrote:
TPerry wrote:
I reached out to Chuck Hodge, chief of racing and events for USA Cycling, and asked about the course this morning. He was kind enough to respond immediately with the following:
We are going to be meeting with local agencies to finalize details early in 2019 - although we have preliminary agreements on our chosen course. Our goal is for a flat 20k and 40k and we are looking at certifying for records.

We will produce course maps and related information once we have our final agreements in place.

Chuck


That's pretty exciting. I like flat and fast TT courses!

Thanks.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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Yes. I believe years ago TT's were held around Alamosa, CO. Elevation 7,500 ft. and flat. And very fast TT 40K times.
grumpier.mike wrote:
Well parts of South Park are pan flat. It has been too many years since I drove over to the north end from the Springs, but that might be a possibility.


wacomme wrote:
But "flat" is relative for Colorado. I don't know anything around here that's flat like Moriarty, NM.

Michael
nslckevin wrote:
TPerry wrote:
I reached out to Chuck Hodge, chief of racing and events for USA Cycling, and asked about the course this morning. He was kind enough to respond immediately with the following:
We are going to be meeting with local agencies to finalize details early in 2019 - although we have preliminary agreements on our chosen course. Our goal is for a flat 20k and 40k and we are looking at certifying for records.

We will produce course maps and related information once we have our final agreements in place.

Chuck


That's pretty exciting. I like flat and fast TT courses!

Thanks.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [wacomme] [ In reply to ]
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Alamosa is 165 miles from Colorado Springs. I can't imagine they'd expect people to drive 5+ hours round trip on top of racing, and hopefully lodging/racing additional days in C.S., as great of a course as it may be.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [T-wrecks] [ In reply to ]
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Oh no. Of course not. Not for Nationals. But it would be a fast course if the TT were held around Alamosa.
T-wrecks wrote:
Alamosa is 165 miles from Colorado Springs. I can't imagine they'd expect people to drive 5+ hours round trip on top of racing, and hopefully lodging/racing additional days in C.S., as great of a course as it may be.
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [wacomme] [ In reply to ]
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I would go down there for a race especially if the surface was smooth. Moriarty surface is killing the times down there.

BoulderCyclingCoach.com
Last edited by: rockdude: Dec 17, 18 6:35
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Re: Colorado Springs TT guys: any thoughts on what course Cycling Masters Nats will use? [TPerry] [ In reply to ]
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FYI, Pikes Peak Hill Climb will be held on Saturday Aug 10 during Master Nats (afaik not affiliated to nats)
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