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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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davews09 wrote:
You guys pumped this up all year like Sanders has a prayer. Well, he was a complete non factor. Not even in the hunt. Goes home devastated.

I can hear the excuses now

“This was not the race I had in me. I proved that in my training races.”
“The Germans were drafting.”
“My nutrition...”

You are a special kind of person

Wife must live being married to you
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [TriguyBlue] [ In reply to ]
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TriguyBlue wrote:
Fishbum wrote:
It's not Sanders. It's his fans and the fifty threads that they have going at any point in time.

It's like Steelers fans. They just go full retard.

This.

Plus he needs a coach and some direction that he sticks with. He went for the Frodeno 2% bodyfat and fell apart like Frodeno.

No he doesn’t need a coach, he needs to pick up the phone and give Tilburs a call back.

Maurice
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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Considering changing the post title to a Chrissie Wellington-esque headline: "LS, 2nd female Pro"
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Fishbum wrote:
It's not Sanders. It's his fans and the fifty threads that they have going at any point in time.

It's like Steelers fans. They just go full retard.

i've been moderating this forum for going on 20 years. i've seen a lot. i've learned a lot. and truly it's taken me many of those years to learn the lessons that matter. and here's one:

if you don't find a thread to your interest or liking...

...don't read it!

i developed the skill of not reading what i don't want to read just after learning the two most important marriage skills: i'm sorry; and you were right.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [wjoiner] [ In reply to ]
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wjoiner wrote:
What coach would accept him?

i don't coach anybody anymore. but if i wanted to coach, and i could have my pick of any athlete, i'd start with lionel. if i was a manufacturer, and i wanted an athlete to use my product, my first stop would be lionel.

and... i don't even know lionel.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [SBRinSD] [ In reply to ]
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Lets assume he was fatigued going into the race. Starts swimming and immediately the body doesn't feel good. Has a very poor swim which isn't a surprise from Lionel. However, looking at where he swam at the practice swim a week prior we can say he swam very bad. Something was up.

Now onto the bike. He starts riding and immediately the legs feel fatigued, no pep. He pushes the watts he knows how he can push. Add in the same drafting you always see in the front group. How many times did we see Lange sitting up and or soft pedaling when on camera? But still rides a crazy fast time. While Lionel is way back by himself pushing big watts but isnt the match for a group dynamic.

Watts and Time are not the best measurement of how he did as the dynamics of the race play a bigger reason into times done. You put LS in a smaller field with those watts and he will ride much better comparative to others who don't have group support.

Also in the watt category, if LS was fatigued from the weeks of training and almost two Ironmans before. If he was out of the aero bars more because he was fatigued and frustrated, he's going to push higher watts and go slower.

What does all this mean? Shit who knows. What I do know is that LS caused himself to miss out on another big opportunity off his own ignorance. His videos are entertaining but educated people see the his videos as a complete train wreck. Not some gleaming hope of whats possible. He has proven time and time again that he cannot manage himself and he's too stubborn to allow someone to work with him. When DTD worked with him last year is when we saw the most growth. Fast forward one year and we have LS self coached, talking massive game, making massive errors, and bombing at the most important race of the year.

Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching



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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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A post race interview would be interesting to see his take of what happened. Also, a “what did Lionel Sanders learn...” thread from his coach Barri would be more useful than his other usual “what did LS learn” posts imo.
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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That's all fair enough, but there's no need for the level of threads on one athlete when there could just be one super thread.

I browse this forum on my mobile and have to go to the 3rd/4th/5th page sometimes to find threads I was posting in the day before.
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
I do worry this is going to cause him to make more irrational training, nutritional, coaching, etc. changes.

I think any of us who understand training are worried about the same.
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [dcohen24] [ In reply to ]
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dcohen24 wrote:
lionel is part of the most interesting race right now...
Can he get home infront of Ryf? Can ryf actually catch him on the road?

Im not sure its a done deal that he gets across the line in less time than ryf.

Sorry meant to reply to you on my last post.
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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davews09 wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
I do worry this is going to cause him to make more irrational training, nutritional, coaching, etc. changes.


I think any of us who understand training are worried about the same.

wait! your posts today are born out of your concern about the welfare of those you're posting about? sorry. i had you figured wrong.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Jackets wrote:
That's all fair enough, but there's no need for the level of threads on one athlete when there could just be one super thread.

I browse this forum on my mobile and have to go to the 3rd/4th/5th page sometimes to find threads I was posting in the day before.


i hear you, brother, but i don't think this is because of lionel threads. we'll host 2000 posts today.

EDIT: actually, closer to 3000.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Last edited by: Slowman: Oct 13, 18 19:52
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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davews09 wrote:
dcohen24 wrote:
lionel is part of the most interesting race right now...
Can he get home infront of Ryf? Can ryf actually catch him on the road?

Im not sure its a done deal that he gets across the line in less time than ryf.


So sad. 26th in the men’s race and he can’t even manage to win the women’s race. The most overrated athlete in triathlon shows how mediocre he really is

Nope he overdid it, was overmotivated and the last 2/3 IM for "testing" was stupid.

Nothing mediocre. If you want to use the word, you could say "mediocre performance today". But he is 100% not mediocre.
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
LS has nothing to be ashamed about. He puts it all on the line, and the cards fall where they fall.

You must have a Keen eye on the midnight cutoff
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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Brandes wrote:
Lets assume he was fatigued going into the race. Starts swimming and immediately the body doesn't feel good. Has a very poor swim which isn't a surprise from Lionel. However, looking at where he swam at the practice swim a week prior we can say he swam very bad. Something was up.

Now onto the bike. He starts riding and immediately the legs feel fatigued, no pep. He pushes the watts he knows how he can push. Add in the same drafting you always see in the front group. How many times did we see Lange sitting up and or soft pedaling when on camera? But still rides a crazy fast time. While Lionel is way back by himself pushing big watts but isnt the match for a group dynamic.

Watts and Time are not the best measurement of how he did as the dynamics of the race play a bigger reason into times done. You put LS in a smaller field with those watts and he will ride much better comparative to others who don't have group support.

Also in the watt category, if LS was fatigued from the weeks of training and almost two Ironmans before. If he was out of the aero bars more because he was fatigued and frustrated, he's going to push higher watts and go slower.

What does all this mean? Shit who knows. What I do know is that LS caused himself to miss out on another big opportunity off his own ignorance. His videos are entertaining but educated people see the his videos as a complete train wreck. Not some gleaming hope of whats possible. He has proven time and time again that he cannot manage himself and he's too stubborn to allow someone to work with him. When DTD worked with him last year is when we saw the most growth. Fast forward one year and we have LS self coached, talking massive game, making massive errors, and bombing at the most important race of the year.

Well said Steve. He's his own worst enemy and is wasting time. IMO he now is way behind the lead group and his approach will not lessen the gap. Maybe a sponsor's dream, but the results are more and more nightmarish. As a few I've seen through the years, though, I feel he's one who is pretty much uncoachable in the terms of more than one year. We all now that it takes more than that to get used to and benefit most from a good coach, so I doubt we'll see him in the position of vying for that top tier.
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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I think what LS has done in a pro career is one of the most amazing things ever. To go from a AG what not even 8 or so years ago to today being a "bust" and coming off a 2nd in Kona....I find his transformation/career fascinating in that he's never had anything. I watch his videos and just look from afar and the one thing that screams to me is very reactionary. And maybe that's entirely because everything about him he's had to work his ass off for, nothing was given to him, he's not part of "triathlon royalty" like the Frodo/Gomez's, etc.

But I've had athletes there- show up on race day and from the gun just not "have it"- whether fatigued/sick/"off" day, could be a combination of everything. And then to watch that race unfold, I swear Lange was bored on the bike it looked like and he was not even 5 mins from the front of the bike race the whole time. Like what we just witnessed was pretty damn special combination of somewhat great ride by the uber bikers but in all honesty, the "front pack" rode really really well. It really was as if the front uber bikers never stood a chance today. How they rode, to the point of dropping Currie and Gomez in the final 10 miles, shows just how strong they worked together irregardless of who was doing the majority of the work.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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davews09 wrote:
You guys pumped this up all year like Sanders has a prayer. Well, he was a complete non factor. Not even in the hunt. Goes home devastated.

I can hear the excuses now

“This was not the race I had in me. I proved that in my training races.”
“The Germans were drafting.”
“My nutrition...”

I think it is great that people are passionate about athletes.
It just mean that they care about the sport enough to be engaged.

Triathlon has enough of grumpy men. I am glad someone care and have a favorite athlete.
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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Brandes wrote:
Lets assume he was fatigued going into the race. Starts swimming and immediately the body doesn't feel good. Has a very poor swim which isn't a surprise from Lionel. However, looking at where he swam at the practice swim a week prior we can say he swam very bad. Something was up.

Now onto the bike. He starts riding and immediately the legs feel fatigued, no pep. He pushes the watts he knows how he can push. Add in the same drafting you always see in the front group. How many times did we see Lange sitting up and or soft pedaling when on camera? But still rides a crazy fast time. While Lionel is way back by himself pushing big watts but isnt the match for a group dynamic.

Watts and Time are not the best measurement of how he did as the dynamics of the race play a bigger reason into times done. You put LS in a smaller field with those watts and he will ride much better comparative to others who don't have group support.

Also in the watt category, if LS was fatigued from the weeks of training and almost two Ironmans before. If he was out of the aero bars more because he was fatigued and frustrated, he's going to push higher watts and go slower.

What does all this mean? Shit who knows. What I do know is that LS caused himself to miss out on another big opportunity off his own ignorance. His videos are entertaining but educated people see the his videos as a complete train wreck. Not some gleaming hope of whats possible. He has proven time and time again that he cannot manage himself and he's too stubborn to allow someone to work with him. When DTD worked with him last year is when we saw the most growth. Fast forward one year and we have LS self coached, talking massive game, making massive errors, and bombing at the most important race of the year.

i have about a half-dozen things that have made me cringe about how he races and trains over the last half-dozen years. i, like you, think he could've made better choices, short-cut his way to better performances more quickly, and found better success with less exertion.

i also noted how he got himself to 2nd place last year and damned near won, and i also watched mark allen try and fail 7 times to get himself to the top spot in kona.

lionel is the highest placing, best performing, most podium honored athlete who is dumber than virtually all the spectators who watch him... according to those spectators.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with what you are saying and am talking mostly out of frustration.

Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching



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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [Longrunhome] [ In reply to ]
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Longrunhome wrote:
I get being annoyed by over zealous fans but rejoicing in the failure or misfortune of someone really makes you a total dick.

It's called schadenfreude. And that's not a dick.
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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davews09 wrote:
You guys pumped this up all year like Sanders has a prayer. Well, he was a complete non factor. Not even in the hunt. Goes home devastated.

I can hear the excuses now

“This was not the race I had in me. I proved that in my training races.”
“The Germans were drafting.”
“My nutrition...”

Are you this upset about Kienle not winning?

He had a terrible day as well.

What is it about Lionel that rubs you so raw?

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
davetri1 wrote:
8:26 is mediocre?
In Reply To:

It is when the winner goes sub 8:00

I wouldn't have thought you would have posted that, but Thank You
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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I'm going to look at the results, but I'd be curious if anyone 3 mins + out of the swim even came in the top 12. Seeing how the front "pack" rode (I'm not even talking the uber bikers) today and then you add in 1 more super power in Frodo next year (if he races)......That type of athlete who isn't a front pack or atleast just off the front pack, just get a major wake up call.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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ZenTriBrett wrote:
And probably burned a few too many matches this year with his no-meat diet adventures.
I'm assuming you're joking
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Re: Lionel Sanders goes home DEVASTATED! [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
I
But I've had athletes there- show up on race day and from the gun just not "have it"- whether fatigued/sick/"off" day, could be a combination of everything.

Yep. People that believe that dumb line that "I just had an off day" are not thinking straight. There is always a reason or several reasons. The body doesn't work outside the facts of science, physics, and chemistry. A bad day is from overtraining, unwise diet choices, not being heat adapted, not training enough, going too fast too soon, poor fuel choices, under or over hydrating... lots of stuff. There is no magic flying carpet that gives you super powers that you somehow forgot to kickstart that morning.
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