certainly not their fault someone (and they will find someone to blame) gave the PRESS bad information??? (can you say “bad intelligence”)

If you are trying to draw a parallel between the bad information received in a crisis as rescue workers were desperately trying to find the victims, and intelligence that was supposed to indicate that WMD existed (intelligence gathering that took years by the way) you are really scratching at the bottom of the barrel to defend Bush.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

you are really scratching at the bottom of the barrel to defend Bush.


LOL...it is about the same...someone yelled fire in a theater...now, who do you blame when the fire cheif arrives? If you cant see the parallels, you my friend have been blinded by the liberal press. Sometimes people can only give their read on a given situation with the best information that they have been given.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

it is about the same...someone yelled fire in a theater...now, who do you blame when the fire cheif arrives? If you cant see the parallels, you my friend have been blinded by the liberal press.

Unless of course there was intelligence that was purposely discarded or ignored (oops)....Time to think of another theory.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

Are you so ignorant you dont get that the press has AGAIN spouted off half baked stories that they never ever recind? Now, they are in a pickle...they cant go off about this one and just let it fall off the plate later in the week...they have finally bitten off more than they can chew...I guess the "informant" was an overheard cell phone conversation...what a great source!

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I guess the "informant" was an overheard cell phone conversation...what a great source!


Kind of like Chalabi, the source for the WMD. Now that was a great source. A man convicted of money-laundering, and someone trying to get elected to the Presidency of Iraq, and he is used as the main source of intelligence, because he is considered independent. Now that is a great source.

I'm not apologizing for the press, in this case as in many others they are a disgrace, racing to sell news clips/newspapers but to draw a parallel between that and the purposeful manipulation on pre-war intelligence is simply unfounded.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

If you really think minute by minute press reporting is comparable to the process that is supposed to go into deciding to go to war, then you clearly have zero comprehension of what goes on in our government with regard to national security.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

What a great time this would be for out illustrious President George Bush to call out to the press…and DEMAND twelve survivors from a coal mine!!! The idiot liberal press gets to sit there looking for someone to blame…certainly not their fault someone (and they will find someone to blame) gave the PRESS bad information??? (can you say “bad intelligence”

Won't happen, as we all know that the press always gets at least two confirmations from other sources before they ever report something in the press as part of their permanent record.

Oh wait, except for when Dan Rather got itchy reporting about Bush's Reserve duty with the fake documents.

edit: Oh, and I guess when Newsweek screwed up reporting that U.S. interogators were flushing the Koran down toilets, setting off riots and killings in places like Pakistan. Well, you know, if coulda been true, maybe ...

Anyway, the press has already implemented their standard default damage control procedure of quoting "officials" who are starting an investigation as to how the wrong information was provided, which is worded such as to imply that either mine officials or state officials were responsible, or at the very least deflects any responsibility from the press. After all, the press doesn't make news, it covers it remaining completely impartial. Well maybe except for Dan. ;-)

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

"If you really think minute by minute press reporting is comparable to the process that is supposed to go into deciding to go to war, then you clearly have zero comprehension of what goes on in our government with regard to national security. "

Slowguy, way to cut to the chase...

WRT to the press, I can find a conservative counterpart to every news outlet you would call liberal. This is a good thing; I think it's very dangerous to get all news from one point of view.

So you're suggesting that the press be held to the same level of accountability as the president? Last I checked, the president only barely, after about a couple of years, accepted blame for going to war on faulty information.

I think going to war is a bit more serious than reporting 12 people are alive that really aren't.

Besides, shouldn't you be calling the miners idiots for choosing to be down in a dangerous mine anyway?

Record10Carbon



Your goal in life is to be a jerk…you are not a good person.

Yeah, why report about joyous relatives streaming out of a church, with bells ringing, saying "They're alive!! They're alive!!" If they didn't take the pulses of the people, they shouldn't report anything. Hell, they reported that these were "relatives" crying about the deaths. Did they ask to see drivers licenses? Any DNA tests being done? I agree. All ridiculous.

NOW...the damn liberal, pro-Israeli NYT's is reporting that Sharon has had a stroke and talking about what that might mean to Middle East politics. Have any of their reporters actually gone and seen him on his hospital bed? I'm guessing not. CNN is saying he is "fighting for his life"...can they see him doing that. THIS IS SILLY. Reporting hearsay. They report a Palestinian says this is a "gift from god". Anyone confirm this, anyone see gift wrap or a card?

Bush should make that hospital wheel him out into the street so we can be sure....see if they're telling the truth.

Now they're reporting that the largest prime number has been found. Think any of them got a calculator out to check it? I'm guessing not...

hmm. you and aj seem pertty desperate lately.

I 'm glad to see that.

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"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn

Mining company chief expresses regret over `miscommunication'
BY CHARLES SHEEHAN AND TIM JONES
Chicago Tribune

SAGO, W.Va. - Amid outrage over conflicting reports from the deadly Sago mine disaster, the mining company's top executive said Wednesday he regretted allowing family members to believe for hours that their loved ones had survived.

A choked-up Ben Hatfield, chief executive of International Coal Group, said company officials mistakenly allowed family jubilation over erroneous reports that the miners were alive "to go on longer than it should have."

"We sincerely regret the manner in which events unfolded this morning," said Hatfield, who blamed "miscommunication" for the stunning and heartbreaking turn of events early Wednesday.

"I don't think that anyone had a clue how much damage was about to be created and we truly regret that," he said.

Hours later Wednesday night, about 200 people from the towns surrounding the mine gathered for a candlelight vigil.

The one miner who survived, Randal McCloy, 27, was in critical condition in a Morgantown, W.Va., hospital with a collapsed lung and dehydration but showed no signs of brain damage or carbon monoxide poisoning, a doctor said.

Hatfield's remarks provided the first, partial explanation of what happened after rescue teams had reached the miners. National news reports - including TV reports by CNN and Fox News and stories in early editions of the Chicago Tribune, New York Times, Washington Post and other daily papers - told of the seemingly miraculous survival of 12 miners who had been trapped underground for more than 41 hours.

Three hours later, though, the joyous celebrations and the pealing of bells at the Sago Baptist Church abruptly ended as company officials shocked waiting family members and friends with the news that 11 of the 12 remaining miners were dead. The body of a 13th miner had been found earlier Tuesday night.

The grim task of piecing together what happened - and what went wrong - began Wednesday.

The cause of the explosion early Monday that killed the dozen miners is still not known, Hatfield said. The miner whose body was found first was killed by the blast, but the cause of death of the other 11 was unknown. How long the huddled miners survived was not disclosed.

Beyond that, though, there is confusion about the critical three hours between the rescuers' discovery of the miners and the disclosure to the families of their fate. No one apparently knows who spread the erroneous information. Unidentified people showed up at a church, supposedly telling those gathered there that rescued miners were on their way. All of this, as well as the hunger for a happy ending, fanned hours of journalistic fiction.

Hatfield said rescue teams reported finding 12 miners alive Tuesday night at 11:45 p.m. EST. Moments later the news spread via "stray cell phone conversations," Hatfield said. West Virginia Gov. Joe Manchin, who lost an uncle in a 1968 mine disaster and who earlier Tuesday said it would take a miracle to find the miners alive, heard the unexpected news at the Sago Baptist Church.

"I was sitting with families and speaking with family members. There's two rooms in the church and when one room broke out in euphoria and everyone saying `What happened, what happened?' - that's when someone said, `They found them, they're alive,'" Manchin recalled. "I looked at our communications people and I looked at my security and said, `Have we had that confirmed, do we know anything about that?' And they said, `No.'"

Then there was a stampede to the door and the church bells started ringing. The sense of gloom that had settled over this small mining community suddenly gave way to joy, with men giving each other bear hugs and people shouting "Praise the Lord."

"They (families) kept saying `12 are alive, 12 are alive.' I looked at my detachment again and I said, `Have we confirmed that?' And we didn't," Manchin said.

After praying for more than two days for a miracle, there was no stopping this miracle, even if it wasn't true. Within minutes - at 11:52 p.m. EST - the Associated Press issued an alert on its news wire, reporting family members saying the 12 miners were alive. There was no confirmation of the report from International Coal Group, which, conspicuously, would remain silent for the next three hours. Subsequent news reports would attribute the successful rescue to family members, most of them unnamed.

And the AP quoted the governor as saying, "They told us they have 12 alive."

Even among the celebrations there was confusion. Family members at the church said "outsiders" came in to say the miners were being brought there. No one knew who these people were.

Manchin said he left immediately for the mine and heard there were some "confusions" and "misstatements." But when asked before leaving the church if he could confirm the miners were alive, Manchin replied, "I said miracles do happen."

By midnight the first of the news stories would move, including a Tribune story in two early editions, under the headlines "12 found alive in coal mine" and "12 miners rescued." Those editions totaled 373,000 copies. Newsday headlined, "Miracle in the Mine." The Rocky Mountain News said "They're Alive!"

Within the half-hour, Hatfield knew he had a problem. The initial report from the rescue team that the miners were alive was followed, at 12:30 a.m., by news that only one miner, McCloy, had survived. Hatfield then wished for his own miracle, telling reporters during a Wednesday afternoon news conference that he "clinged to the hope that the other 11 might be comatose."

Hatfield said he did not know at that time if the dead could number 2 or 12. "We didn't believe there was any productive benefit" to giving people inconclusive information. So the misinformation lived on. A little more than an hour later, at 1:38 a.m., the deaths of 11 miners were confirmed. Still, there was no public statement from the company.

Hatfield, who said he had no idea who spread the erroneous word to relatives at the church, said he contacted the state police at 1 a.m., telling them to notify clergy at Sago Baptist Church to tell waiting families that "initial reports may have been inaccurate." That never happened. By 2:30 a.m., Hatfield said the company had completed a statement that would soon be delivered to unsuspecting family members at the church.

"Rightly or wrongly, we made what we believed to be the best decisions ... while working under extreme stress and physical exhaustion," Hatfield said.

When asked what he would have done differently, if he could, Hatfield said, "I would have personally gone to the church ... to say something may be wrong here."

The miracle in West Virginia officially ended shortly after Hatfield entered the church, shortly after 2:30 a.m. Chaos broke out, with screams and fights. The first word of the miners' deaths came from the Associated Press at 2:57 a.m. Wednesday, saying 11 of 12 miners initially thought to have survived were dead. The report cited family members.

Shortly after 3 a.m., the company confirmed what it had known for almost three hours.

LOL...it is shocking how ignorant some people are. You know what is even funnier, the fact that liberals cant seem to cope with the fact that they cant hold all people to the same level. They seem to have an indelible desire to try and find anything to blame on anyone for anything - BUT, if Bush is given bad information he is the devil - I cant wait to see liberals and the press blame Bush somehow for the deaths in this mine..."what could Bush have one?" - "what if Bush had more oil?" - "were any of the victims black like in New Orleans?" - blah blah blah...it is no wonder that a typical liberal makes MUCH less than a typical Republican...they are just not so bright, and in this country, the idiots struggle to get ahead and dont.



You liberals need to get past yourselves (Oh, did I mention that we run the the house, senate, and Oval office? So, who are there more of?)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Why are you rambling at me? I didn't post anything about politics or political parties.

I think that was the most ignorant post ever. There's nothing sadder than blindly towing a party line.

There's a difference between heat-of-the-moment coverage of a breaking story and a months-long process of trying to get people to believe what you do.

Reporting what is being stated and by who is different than ignoring concerns about the "intelligence" raised by many in-the-know and pushing only "your" facts.

another Bush apologist

I think that was the most ignorant post ever. There's nothing sadder than blindly towing a party line.




Not apologizing for the previous posters comments but some points he made were in fact on the mark as it related to Pesident Bush being responsible.

From Neal Boortz:

IT WAS GEORGE BUSH'S FAULT

There was one absolute certainty yesterday as the tragic story of the West Virginia mine disaster unfolded. By the end of the day the disaster was going to be blamed on either (a) global warming or (b) George Bush.

Well, it didn't take long. Yesterday somebody named Jack Spadaro, who is the former head of something called the National Mine Safety and Health Academy, went on Hannity and Colmes. The topic was the mining disaster in West Virginia that claimed the lives of 12 miners and left one in critical condition. He was asked what he made of the safety violations at the mine. His response: "This mine should have been closed." Fair comment.

Asked why, he said "There were too many serious violations and the record is very clear." At this point, that's obvious. So far, so good. Just another run-of-mill interview with a mining expert...the kind of thing we've heard over and over the past couple days. Then he took that extra step...the one we were all waiting for.

Asked to elaborate on why he thought the mine stayed open despite the violations, Mr. Spadaro actually said this: "I think it's because of the current Bush administration's policies toward mine operators and their reluctance to take the strong enforcement action that's sometimes necessary." That's right....those miners died because of, you guessed it, President George W. Bush's lack of enforcement action on mine operators. The president killed the miners!

It's clear that this Administration (note: Administration, not Bush) favors industry groups like mining. If a mine such as this one wasn't closed, despite numerous violations and a very high accident/death rate, who is responsible? It's the regulatory agencies that are involved. Who is responsible for these agencies? I thought I recently heard Bush himself say that he, as head of the government, is responsible. So, by his own admission, he is indirectly responsible. Not directly, as the idiot author you cite claims in his straw man ("The president killed the miners!").

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"Go yell at an M&M"

My post on ignorance was directed at Record10Carbon re: his coments about the "differences" between Liberals and Democrats as supposedly evidenced by average income, etc. We all know how helpful polarization and generalization are to the political process.

This has got to be one of the saddest threads I have ever seen. You take a tragedy like that in WV and turn it into this? You're just as pathetic as that nut they found for Hannity.

By your reasoning Bush should more likely point at and make fun of the local church, because it was the church bells that were ringing well before any report was made in the media. Should Bush do that?

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You're not stuck in traffic. You ARE traffic.

The idiot liberal press gets to sit there looking for someone to blame…certainly not their fault someone (and they will find someone to blame) gave the PRESS bad information??? (can you say “bad intelligence”) So…when the press is lead to believe something, that is no fault of their own…

The news was reported after 2 sources came through with confirmation. The first confirmation came from the Governor himself when a family member stopped him and asked point blank if there were 12 survivors and he said "yes." The family members then told the press.

Now do you think it is a liberal agenda? If you were sitting at an editors desk in New York, and received confirmation from a family member and the governor himself that 12 people were alive, would you sit on it or report it? How many more confirmations would you have received before you reported it?

Nice try though.

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__________________________________________________

You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008