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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [SpeedOfCourse] [ In reply to ]
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When I started fitting, my opinion of chiropractic care was that it was bunk. I found myself being asked frequently for referrals from fit clients dealing with injuries and recurring problems. I, very strictly, referred them to physicians.

When asked why I didn't refer to a chiropractor, I gave all of the reasons already mentioned on this thread. But when my clients visited the physician, the advice they'd get always seemed to be one of three things: stop doing that, let's crack you open and take a look (surgery), or here's a cortisone shot. My clients would report, over and over, that the physicians were no help, didn't appear interested in keeping the athlete training, etc.

A couple of years into fitting, I met a chiro who happens to be a former professional baseball player and accomplished amateur Ironman. I would describe him as a physiologist more than I would describe him as a chiropractor. He has physicians, physical therapists, and massage therapists all in his same practice. He seemed to understand where his scope of practice ends and when it is time to seek the counsel of an orthopedist. I started referring clients to him occasionally.

After that, I got consistent feedback from my clients that, via the treatment recommended and administered by the chiro and his team, their issues were treated effectively and the care they received greatly contributed to healing from injury and preventing injury. In one case, I had a client (and longtime friend) with debilitating hip issues that had seen numerous PTs and orthopedists and podiatrists with no success at great expense. They had also tried some chiropractic care from a chiro their friend recommended, and it didn't help either. But after referring to the chiro I trusted, they successfully identified the cause of her issues after many others far more credentialed had failed. Her treatment and rehabilitation was successful.

I've since met a few other chiros that I think are excellent and deserve respect as medical professionals, but I concede there is no shortage of charlatans with DC behind their name.

So I sympathize with many of the views here skeptical of chiropractic care. I once shared the same view. But my experience has taught me that chiropractic care is simply another tool that can help many athletes dealing with injury. And I also think chiropractic concepts can help a good physiologist or medical professional better understand biomechanics.

That said, I'm not an expert and I'm not smart enough to separate the quacks from the good chiropractors. And by the same token, I'm not able to separate the quacks from the good physicians. But I do think physicians are often given much more deference than is deserved. Like in all professions, incompetence abounds there too.

Trent Nix
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Last edited by: trentnix: Jun 13, 18 19:12
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [Big Endian] [ In reply to ]
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Big Endian wrote:
SpeedOfCourse wrote:
I know every time I have been to the Chiropractor he says I need to make the visits more consistent. Thoughts?
This is how you know it's a scam. Go see a sports physiotherapist and they will help you figure out what the underlying problem is, and prescribe you exercises to strengthen and balance your muscles. So you can stop seeing them as soon as possible.
Totally agree.

Also agree with not being able to believe there’s a doctorate of chiro. I also laugh at how they insist on referring to themselves answer Dr this or Dr that. Now I know plenty of medical doctors and dentists. And not one of them refers to themselves as Dr even though they are far more qualified to do so.

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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [BayDad] [ In reply to ]
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Having personally encountered two young people who suffered from strokes due to vertebral artery dissection following a visit to the chiropractor, visiting one has fallen down my list of people to see.
Pure quackery and I'm afraid I'd hold the recommendation against a massage therapist.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Completely agree.
How often do chiro do any "adjustment" under floro or with x-rays?

They lay you down and crack your back and tell you they "realigned" you. Total crock.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [RBR] [ In reply to ]
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Chiros are scam, but frequent x-rays are great, as proven by science...

I'd rather pay for quack than have cancer down the road.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [bentus] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly.
What holds your skeletal system in place? Ligaments and muscles. Work on those, and you never have to go to a Chiro. Yeah sure, you get an instant SHORT TERM release of pain, but if you don't work on the supporting structures in the skeletal system (i.e. lift weights people!!!) then you are costing yourself unnecessarily for unscientific treatment. Get strong for long term management.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [TakeYourTime] [ In reply to ]
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Count me in as another non-believer in chiro 'adjustments'. I've never gotten any noticeable benefit, and have been told the same things "Oh you need to come more often, lets schedule you for 12 visits...."...

The only one I've ever seen that I liked and felt I got benefit from, never tried to adjust me, never even suggested it. He did ART work on my shin / post tib area, and it really helped a lot.
I always found it odd that it is chiros that are trained in ART and Graston, as opposed to massage therapists?

Anyway, a big 'no' to adjustments...
.02
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [SpeedOfCourse] [ In reply to ]
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I go to a chiro who pretty much only does sports stuff. Went to a PT before for an achilles issue and didnt care for that particular PT. Asked for recommendations from coach and it happened to be this chiro. They damned near do the same thing. ART, graston, dry needling, some massage and stretching. Got into a car accident and had some slight neck shoulder tenderness. My chiro up front said he typically doesn't do stuff like that, but since it affected my workouts, he would. It was nice to hear that. Because although I believe there is some help in what they can do, its definitely limited, and most are in it to rake in cash from soft tissue car accident injuries. I have family members that are damned near rich from it.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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Great information here, now people say "get an xray", where do you go from the xray? Do you go to the Chiropractor? Or would the physician send you to PT? After readhing through this thread I do feel much more confident putting my money towards massages, If my muscular system is failing due to constant fatigue then that will lead to disc issues and whole host of other problems. Muscular is going to get the nod over Alignment and what Chiropractics offers.

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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [ In reply to ]
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For many years I went to a chiro on a regular basis. When I lifted competitively a chiro was very high on my list of importance. But finding a good chiro that was sports focused, had good talent and was not on the premise of coming in every other day was difficult to find. Back in those days I lived and trained next to Life University, a chiropractic school, so there were a high concentration of competitive lifters that were also students or were already out in private practice. Many times these guys would quickly adjust you right there on a gym bench if say you popped a rib out while doing squats. Very painful by the way and instant relief if they can get it back in before a spasm develops.

I have found things I can do at home that have done just as well as all those years of going. However, I am also not able to lift with the same competitive weight I did back years ago so I am not taking the same amount of risk with max weights.

So these days - very low on the list of importance.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [SpeedOfCourse] [ In reply to ]
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Doesn't make the page the list is printed on. Sustained yoga, a good LMT and if needed PT.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [SpeedOfCourse] [ In reply to ]
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SpeedOfCourse wrote:
Great information here, now people say "get an xray", where do you go from the xray? Do you go to the Chiropractor? Or would the physician send you to PT? After readhing through this thread I do feel much more confident putting my money towards massages, If my muscular system is failing due to constant fatigue then that will lead to disc issues and whole host of other problems. Muscular is going to get the nod over Alignment and what Chiropractics offers.

Not sure about the US, but here in Canada a chiro can in fact order an xray, and you then just go to the hospital and get it (covered under medicare, completely free). THAT said, what the heck is a chiro going to do with it? I can tell you what he's going to do with it - he's going to pick out any little non-significant thing the report says, and tell you that you should come in once a week for the next year... $$$

If you truly have a problem that warrants a spinal xray, its not something a chiro is going to be able to help with! If you are having back problems that are that bad, go see your doc and get referred to a specialist, who will likely then send you for an MRI. Though depending on your insurance, I understand that may cost you a lot of $$ in the US. Here in Canada its free (yes we pay more taxes), but the downside being we have long wait times for non-urgent.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [SpeedOfCourse] [ In reply to ]
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Chiros are simply not supported by the science.

When something is tested rigorously (meaning in well controlled experiments and with large enough sample sizes—sorry but your anecdotal evidence of a Chiro that once fixed your leg pain doesn’t cut it) it is no longer “alternative” medicine and it is just medicine.

The underlying “mechanisms” by which Chiro works are tenuous at best and downright ridiculous at worst.

If you need PT see a therapist. If you need medical treatment see a doctor.

Of course not all PTs and MDs will be great. You should get other opinions and be your own advocate. But they are at least backed by science.

If you have to make a choice between science and non-science, well, that’s not really a choice.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [michaer27] [ In reply to ]
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Right up there with the witch doctor and tarot card reader, but well below anything using actual science and medicine. See a PT or get a proper massage instead. You can pop bubble wrap at the same time if that has been fooling your mind into the placebo effect.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [elf6c] [ In reply to ]
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I find it interesting that so many here would blindly follow the advice of a PT when, in fact they are not that far removed from Chiro's. If you make it through this article, kudos. Evidence Based Practice is difficult when there is not much evidence to support your practice. Interesting article here.

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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [SpeedOfCourse] [ In reply to ]
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I've dealt with back issues for years (herniated disc started it all about a decade ago), and stayed clear of chiropractors for all the reasons stated above. That said, I've had PTs who weren't great and orthopedic doctors who scared me "The only choice you should make is if you want to fuse your spine or do a microdiscectomy. I'd lean toward fusing." ... A second opinion was, "What? No. I would never operate on you." So there are awful doctors everywhere.

But I did give a chiro a shot about a year ago while recovering from a setback. I did a ton of research and found one that had sports medicine experience. He hasn't been pushy about coming back a lot -- I go about once a month. In the winter, I was having some sciatic issues that flared up after a long treadmill run. I was in a lot of pain and couldn't run for about a week before my scheduled appointment with him. I told him about the issue and in addition to the correction, he did some massage and stretching stuff. I was running again two days later pain free.

There might be some quacks out there and perhaps it's pseudo science, but I've had some success. Your mileage may vary, as they say.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [SpeedOfCourse] [ In reply to ]
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Have you considered homeopathy?
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [SpeedOfCourse] [ In reply to ]
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I went once in my entire life - and the sound my body made - is a sound it makes when you eat sh*t going 30 mph downhill on a gravel road covered in bubble wrap.

I will never go again. That cannot be healthy for the human body to make those noises.
I have never had a message either though. I have lady friends for that and I do not have to pay them - just lie to them
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [SpeedOfCourse] [ In reply to ]
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I used to see a chrio every other week or so, until I finally caved and saw a PT. After sessions with a PT to actually pinpoint the root cause, and learning some stretches and techniques to correct it, I haven't been back to a chiro in almost 2 years. At most I see my PT once every 6 months or so just to check in.

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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [trentnix] [ In reply to ]
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I had a pretty similar experience when I was still in the run business. Typical ortho referrals that wouldn't work, yet people would go see a select few providers and actually get better. Forging those relationships helped. (And to the poster up there in re: prescriptive footwear, we still see that primarily from podiatrists at this point who want to drop an orthotic in a Brooks Beast and call it a day.)

My own n=1 experience is that chiropractic is merely one tool in an arsenal to keep your body moving. My old guy in Maine packaged chiropractic with ART, Graston, and PT. I'd go 2-3 times over the span of a month, and then not need to see him for months at a time so long as I was diligent doing the exercises. He was outstanding. Wish I could've brought him with me when I moved, as I've been struggling with PTs/LMTs ever since to help address some lingering issues.

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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [SpeedOfCourse] [ In reply to ]
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I’ve seen a sports chiro who I can best describe as a mix between a PT and a massage therapist, except that my insurance covers the expense without the need for a prescription. I consider him like a “second opinion” for nagging injuries as sometimes he has ideas my PT doesn’t. He does massage, Graston and stretching, and he recommends PT-type stretches and exercises. He helped with some nagging, mild knee pain that my PT couldn’t alleviate and he provides a relatively cheap massage option since insurance covers the cost. To me this is very different then a chiro who does adjustments and thinks they can cure diseases.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]
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ecce-homo wrote:
Chiros are scam, but frequent x-rays are great, as proven by science...

I'd rather pay for quack than have cancer down the road.


Frequent X-Rays are NOT great. Especially torso Xrays which have a high overall dosage. Lifetime Xray exposure is something that needs to be managed. Indiscriminant use is a BAD idea.

I'd rather pay for a REAL doctor who understands the benefits, risks, alternatives, and effective screening methods for the various cancers. If you have a shitty doctor, find a new one instead of seeing a quack!
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Jun 14, 18 8:36
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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What I meant is that it is a bit odd to say chiros are a wast of time and money for not being science based (I have no opinion on that as there are not common in Spain) and on the other hand being frequently exposed to x-rays for which science says it multiplies the risk of various forms of cancer.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [SpeedOfCourse] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting question. I typically see a massage therapist twice a month but have never seen a Chiro in my life (61 this year) and have no plans on seeing one; especially since I do not accept your premise that "With these three sports we do we have got to be constantly throwing our alignment off." My spine is aligned just fine thank you; and if it feels like it is off, I will pursue a fix via correcting muscular imbalances.
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Re: How high on the list of importance in the chiropractor for you? [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]
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ecce-homo wrote:
What I meant is that it is a bit odd to say chiros are a wast of time and money for not being science based (I have no opinion on that as there are not common in Spain) and on the other hand being frequently exposed to x-rays for which science says it multiplies the risk of various forms of cancer.

Ah, ok. In which case we are in agreement.

I did not pick up on that sarcasm. /pink might help.
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