Pretty much this. The leading party in a Coalition will still get to do what they want to do, but they will have to compromise on some things to get it done. This isn't necessarily a bad thing.

It's not like the NDP will be running the show.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Complete and utter nonsense.

I think you need to look up the definition of "legitimate mandate".

We are so screwed. Sigh.......

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I'm fairly liberal. In the last few elections I have voted for the liberal party. But I really do not like Wynn. Until about a month ago I was willing to vote for the PC..... now I just don't know. I can't bring myself to vote for Ford but at the same time I do not like what Wynn is doing. I also fear that voting NDP will split the left-vote and get Ford in.

I may have to vote for Wynn and wish for a minority government. Hopefully it doesn't last too long and the leaders change in the interim.

And so is the shit show we have before us. No to Wynne and the criminal Liberals. No to Ford and his clown car. Horwath and the NDP? We screw that up and we end up with the mistake of Premier Bob a la Andrea. Can we find a reset button for this mess? Who is the least awful among the choices we have?

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A false humanity is used to impose its opposite, by people whose cruelty is equalled only by their arrogance

A lot of people relate to you, including me. Its too bad the Wynne didn't step down and let a new leader take over who might at least attempt to give the Liberals a fresh face. I never thought I'd vote for her again but then she's IMO a lesser evil than Ford. I would maybe vote NDP but as you say, splitting the left could give Ford the win. At any rate, I suspect a minority government.

Agreed, just because he doesn't like the outcome doesn't make it unethical, or "wrong".

Plus, who is foolish enough to actually believe a party will honour their mandate? (sort of pink, but not really).

You wanna what's weird? I ran into a guy from Ont. tonight at Mi's (it's beside Bubba Junkfoods) and he had no idea that Dough Ford was the new leader of the Ontario PC's! Must be nice to be in paradise long enough to forget how f'd up Canada really is!

Re-read the thread. This isn't what I was saying.

FYI, according to a poll in the Toronto Star 71.2% of people want to know "what politicians have planned and how their policies will affect me". I wholeheartedly agree with your "sort of pink, but not really" statement, so was surprised that such a large number appear to consider platform policies when choosing who to vote for.

That's bullshit. People might say that's what they want but really most people vote for the person they find most appealing.

Doug Ford is going to win. What does he have planned? Nothing. He knows nothing, he spouts pointless garbage like "getting rid of the elites" and "cleaning up the mess" but none of it means anything concrete.

But he resonates with people. So he will win. (It also helps that Wynne is pretty universally disliked)

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I would suggest keeping the details to a minimum so that he can get his feet under the desk, see what he's inherited

That's a political trap people fall into year after year.

A new government promises the world while campaigning and then a few months after they win, claim that the previous government left the books far worse than anyone thought so they won't be able to deliver. It's complete BS.

The only reason Ford can't cost his promises is because he has no clue. He is making vague sweeping statements like "finding efficiencies" and is simply following the populist playbook that so many are using around the world to get elected. I can't believe people in Ontario are going to fall for it.

I'm a member of the Ontario PC party Ford is making it impossible for me to vote for him.

i'll be curious to see about that. he's got all the populism but zero of the charisma of his brother. they're both ignorant, entitled grifters, but rob at least came off as loveably harmless, or messed-up, or something. but doug often comes across as more mercenary and vicious, i think.

rob also lived a more everyman life - drove a shitty car and lived in a shitty house and wore ill-fitting clothes, even though he was rich on inherited cash. doug cruises around in a cadillac and his wife is notorious for posting instagram stories of shopping sprees and trips and stuff.

i don't know - he's won the nomination, so he's already come this far. but i do wonder if he'll tank in rural ridings or areas where rob's "i'm your everyman superintendent" model of governance won't work.

exciting times, anyway.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I think Doug Ford is a complete buffoon and a douche to boot, there is no way in hell I would vote for him. But I think that a lot of people view him as a more competent version of Rob Ford. I really don't know where they are getting that idea but I think it's out there.

The rural areas though are getting reamed with hydro costs. They are uber pissed at Wynne. So the only question remains is, will they vote NDP or PC. Polls seem to think that everyone is moving toward the PC and NDP is not really gaining all that much ground.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

yeah, i think maybe as a sales pitch that's he best play - Rob 2.0, the new 'de-bugged' version.

a competent set of opponents would absolutely destroy this guy - a drug-dealing bully who's on record as hating public life, wildly uninformed about policy, and a spoiled trust-fund kid who was born on 3rd base running his dad's sticker factory. he should be a giant, walking bullseye.

but my feeling is that the past few provincial (and even, arguably, federal) elections come down to 'least-worst' choices and unfocused fights between weak opponents. people keep tripping over their own toes, shifting their platforms, fighting on the wrong fronts. it seems like it should be easy for an organized party with a coherent plan to win . . . and yet, here we are.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I think Doug Ford is a complete buffoon and a douche to boot, there is no way in hell I would vote for him. But I think that a lot of people view him as a more competent version of Rob Ford. I really don't know where they are getting that idea but I think it's out there.

I agree with that. I moved from BC so was not in Ontario during Rob Ford's time and didn't know much about Doug. I liked some of the things he was saying but as I listened more closely realized he really has no clue about how things work and is simply making populist statements to get votes without any idea of specific policies or how things work.

I also thought he would be more competent but now I doubt it. He is simply pandering to votes as all politicians do but he really has no clue.

I can’t believe that I am saying this but I will likely vote NDP.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I am pretty centre so don’t really have a dog in this fight, but I see a lot of dislike of the NDP but I am not sure why they are more feared/hated than the libs.

The libs basically spend as much or more than the NDP claims it will and Howarth is way more trust worthy than crooked Wynne. So why the hate on for the NDP?

Look at Notley out west - she is a lot more business (oil) friendly than the Ontario libs if you ask me.

The libs and ndp are pretty interchangeable on platform but the liberals have a terrible track record of hypocracy and bad judgement so if you can’t/won’t for Ford then it seems the npd is the better anti-wynne choice.

i'll be curious to see about that. he's got all the populism but zero of the charisma of his brother. they're both ignorant, entitled grifters, but rob at least came off as loveably harmless, or messed-up, or something. but doug often comes across as more mercenary and vicious, i think.


Indeed - there is an evil/nasty streak in Doug. He always seems just below the boiling point and ready to go off. He get's flustered and frustrated easily, and seems ready to strike back at any moment.

As a City of Toronto Councillor, his only time in elected office, simply put, he was terrible! - http://spacing.ca/...arently-very-little/ - and now he's potentially going to be running the Province - which is actually the 17th or 18th largest economy in the world!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I can’t believe that I am saying this but I will likely vote NDP.


The way this election is shaping up, it actually behooves each one of us to go to an all-candidates meeting in our ridings, and listen carefully to each of the candidates, even ask a hard question or two, and then vote for the one each of us feel would best represent us in the Ontario Legislature - that is the way the system is supposed to work.

Given the current state of affairs on Ontario, despite my Liberal leanings, had I been impressed with the Local PC Candidate AND I felt OK with the PC Leader (Note Patrick Browne allegedly has some flaws, but otherwise I thought he was a pretty good guy and the People's Guarantee platform made sense), there a good chance that I would have voted PC. Not now - not even if the PC Candidate in my riding impresses me. Doug Ford, is a lying, incoherent buffoon! He does not even have the full support of the PC Party or even of Caucus. 4 or 5 good friends of mine who are life-long Tories, will NOT be voting PC they tell me!

Maybe the Green Party? I'll see what they have to say at the All Candidates meeting.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I can’t believe that I am saying this but I will likely vote NDP.

The NDP are fighting tooth and nail with the Liberals to see who can spend the most. It's very telling to me that parties think they have to spend more to attract voters and that's because they do. People have become so dependent on government to solve all their problems that anyone who hints at tax cuts or smaller government is the devil incarnate.

I couldn't bring myself to vote for the Liberals, NDP or Ford so I'll abstain even though I hate not voting.

People have become so dependent on government to solve all their problems that anyone who hints at tax cuts or smaller government is the devil incarnate.

In kind of goes both ways.

The debt, as I mentioned is starting to become a concern. What's failed to be mentioned is that the Ontario economy has had a great two years. It's one of the best performing regions in all of North America right now. Doug Ford keeps going on and on about how awful, and terrible it all is. Knowing Doug, his "research" on this was talking to a guy at a gas-bar in Sault-St. Marie and another at Tim Hortons in Pembroke - both told Doug that everything sucks right now.


Look I'm not saying the Liberals have all the answers here. But they must have been doing SOME things right. As I mentioned, economic growth right now in Ontario is strong, and unemployment is at 20 year lows. Transit in the GTA is FINALLY, starting to get really worked on, and the healthcare system and the education system both score VERY high marks with how they are doing. Those really are the BIG three on the deliverable for a Provincial Government in Canada - Transit/Transportation, healthcare, Education. ALL three score BETTER now than 3 - 4 years ago when the Wynne Liberals last won. So if Wynne is a total disaster as many say ( and I certainly hear that, and see that), then how is it that on those three BIG and very important files things are much better now than 4 years ago?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Is Ontario's economy genuinely great or is it trying to return to a past level? That's what Alberta's economy is doing. So, even if the numbers indicate 'the biggest growth in the country', it's a dishonest metric if it's only returning an old mark. And frankly, Ontario has been in the shit hole for a while and Alberta fell further faster and the end result is economies that look like they're growing when in reality they're actually only recovering. Recovery is not growth.

racin_rusty wrote:

Is Ontario's economy genuinely great or is it trying to return to a past level? That's what Alberta's economy is doing. So, even if the numbers indicate 'the biggest growth in the country', it's a dishonest metric if it's only returning an old mark. And frankly, Ontario has been in the shit hole for a while and Alberta fell further faster and the end result is economies that look like they're growing when in reality they're actually only recovering. Recovery is not growth.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/06/04/ontario-job-growth-by-governing-party_n_5445646.html?utm_hp_ref=ca-ontario-economy


I found this interesting. Highest job growth under the Peterson liberals and Harris/Eaves conservatives. Next comes Bill Davis. Worst is McGuinty/Wynne aside from Bob Rae's gov't. On the other hand Bob Rae got dealt a very bad hand. He went to New York to borrow money to fund gov't and was told no. McGuinty also was dealt the great recession but could borrow as much as he wanted and benefit from all the extra room to tax given the austerity of gov't spending in the Harris years. Nevertheless with a much bigger population than during the Bill Davis years job growth in Ontario is still weaker. So overall I think job growth in Ontario is as you say recovery not growth.


On a personal level as a family doc I feel like I have made out like a bandit during the McGuinty years. As had almost all gov't paid workers. Mostly due to the whole family health team thing. Which is in my opinion one of the biggest scandals of the last ten years in Ontario.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

The elephant in the room with respect to Ontario is truly the cost of utilities and now it's become a problem for Alberta too. Two of Canada's economic engines are being run by idiots and the third hasn't had enough time to wreck their own economy yet as they've not been in power long enough.

This was in today's Globe and Mail: Auditor-General blasts 'bogus' accounting strategies in Ontario. The summary is that the Auditor-General believes the financial and accounting structure of the Fair Hydro Plan was designed to "avoid reporting the costs of rate reductions on Ontario's public accounts, thus allowing the government to falsely claim it had a balanced budget".