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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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Holy shit! Those are pretty bad. I'm not sure I can claim my buddy and Kevin are brothers, but, they certainly at least are cousins!

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I'm going to guess that you and Brick ("gift it to him") are employed but not self-employed. If self-employed or own a business, you quickly learn to see through ppl's BS.
(Or as a friend once said, "What do you call a Democrat who owns a business?" A Republican.)
In our business, I often apply a courtesy or cut ppl a break. But when they impose a "discount" on us, by not paying? Oh hell's no.
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Have you talked to him? I'd start there.

You seem to feel like he's taking advantage of you and your friendship. Tell him that.

Real friends are priceless. If they are having money or other issues, $400 bucks isn't that much to you for a real friend. Most of us would drop everything for a real friend in need. So I get taking care of your real friends.

If he got some money problems and can't afford it, then you could see it as an investment in your friendship if it isn't putting you out financially. But, you get to set the boundaries and limits to your generosity. And he's the asshole if he abuses that. You don't have to be friends with assholes.

A real friend wouldn't put you in the position he has. So is he a real friend or just a guy you hang out with?

For a guy you just hang out with, either he does his part for the trip- on time- or he doesn't go (or you guys talk about and he opens up to the issues that prevent him for paying).

At what point does this relationship become more of a headache than beneficial for you? I suspect you are there now, since you are asking for help. But figure that one too.

Either that or treat him like you do the left leaning folks who post here and he'll get the idea and go away.

Suffer Well.
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
The guy has no shame. If we cut him out of our cabin this year, there is a good chance he will still show up down in North Carolina and crash on the couch.
He can only crash on the couch if you all let him in. If the guy does show up, embarrass him with the facts and your feelings then tell him to stay elsewhere unless he pays.


_____________________________________
DISH is how we do it.
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Why stop being a friend? He simply can't easily pay for this event. It's expensive, so what's the big deal. You enabled the mooching for several years, just stop. It doesn't have to be personal on your end. His reaction is his own to make. I have covered costs for friends who are less well off. Many years ago, friends would cover small costs for me. OTOH, I've never covered sizable costs for multiple years. Just be straight with him.
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I'm willing to bet that your so-called friend secretly, deep down, feels like this: Since you have so much more than him, you shouldn't care that he doesn't pay. You can afford it (and so much more), and you know that it's a stretch for him. An entitled attitude of wealth distribution.

I had a similar situation. He's no friend and either is your guy...

Hope it works-out for you one way or another.



Lifeguard: "Do you need help?" Me: "No, that's just my butterfly."
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
But, there is no question doing so will end the friendship.

Just remember that he is the one ending the friendship, not you. It may not change things, but you need to remind yourself that you didn't do this, he did.
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
Everyone pays me at the end ... except the one guy. Three years in a row, he has not paid.

I would have stopped inviting him after he didn't pay the first year.

At this point he's taking advantage of you and you're enabling him. I would have a come to Jesus talk with this guy and tell him he's being a lousy friend and he is not welcome unless he pays upfront like everyone else. Part of being an adult, and a friend, means paying your way. If he cannot or will not do that then he's being a lousy friend and does not respect you. Bring a tent and if he shows up tell him to sleep outside.
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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I feel the need to share some Kevin stories.
Ok old man. We've heard those before.

Is your son always complaining about you retelling stuff -- my kids do.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I had a friend rent a house of mine for 3 months. I ended up with a piano and lots of two months of uncollected rent. I occasionally miss the friendship, it mostly makes me feel sad for him, though. You seem to be circling around the idea that I had to accept, yeah, there is no winning on this.
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Is he married?
Is he not paying because the wife controls all of the money and doesn’t “let” him spend money?
Or- does she know he’s doing this? If my wife heard i owed someone money, she’d make sure it got paid immediately.

Or- let’s say this guy is hard up for cash. This trip is the one thing he looks forward to all year.
Are the other guys friends of his?
If we had a buddy that was tight with the group, but couldn’t swing the cost, we’d all chip in to cover. (And maybe not equally. Big shot buddy might pay more). This has happened for several Vegas trips. And for weddings when a friend was invited but couldn’t afford the flight.

And finally- if we all knew that one guy put everything on his credit card and the cost didn’t get fully covered, we’d all chip in to cover the difference.
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
Why stop being a friend? He simply can't easily pay for this event. It's expensive, so what's the big deal. You enabled the mooching for several years, just stop. It doesn't have to be personal on your end. His reaction is his own to make. I have covered costs for friends who are less well off. Many years ago, friends would cover small costs for me. OTOH, I've never covered sizable costs for multiple years. Just be straight with him.

This. He put you in this situation. If he's not letting the social awkwardness get to him, why should you let it get to you?

In fact, the more I think about it, you must cut him off in order to save the friendship. Cut him off, require a "lay our cards on the table" conversation, and then move on one way or another. But to just let this guy keep running you over can't work. You'll end up hating him, and the rest of your friends will lose respect for you.
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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spookini wrote:
I'm going to guess that you and Brick ("gift it to him") are employed but not self-employed. If self-employed or own a business, you quickly learn to see through ppl's BS.
(Or as a friend once said, "What do you call a Democrat who owns a business?" A Republican.)
In our business, I often apply a courtesy or cut ppl a break. But when they impose a "discount" on us, by not paying? Oh hell's no.

Ha! I am one of the partners/owners of a specialty law firm. In the business world, I would have cut him loose a long time ago. I'm a softie in my personal life.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [TriHard Indiana] [ In reply to ]
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TriHard Indiana wrote:
I'm willing to bet that your so-called friend secretly, deep down, feels like this: Since you have so much more than him, you shouldn't care that he doesn't pay. You can afford it (and so much more), and you know that it's a stretch for him. An entitled attitude of wealth distribution.

I had a similar situation. He's no friend and either is your guy...

Hope it works-out for you one way or another.

I believe that is exactly his mentality.

I should add a couple facts. We race at this car rally. Almost everyone there has after-market parts on their cars, including my friend. He works a lot and does not have a great deal of disposable income. He also has a fair amount of debt and financial obligations. But, he manages to have the blinged out wheels, cold air intake, and cat-back exhaust system, so he can run with the cool kids at this event. Again, this guy works a lot of hours and works hard for his money, of which he does not have a ton. But he always manages to have money for those items ...

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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My theory after having dealt with this problem a couple of times with a couple of different people: He's having money problems and doesn't want to tell you the truth. He's not an ass, he's embarrassed. He's in over his head and doesn't know how to broach the issue with you. He'd pay you back if he could but he can't. Why he's having money problems is a different issue and well beyond the scope of my crystal ball, but he feels like he has to keep up with you three but he's tapped.

Now, that said, the repeat trips tend to tip the scale back toward "ass" but I'd straight up ask him about it. If he's a Friend (capitalized F) rather than a friend or acquaintance, then a conversation might be the best help he's received in a while. A kick in the ass, if you will. All progress starts with something difficult and in this case it's a phone call from you inquiring into what the fuck is going on.

Edit: I just skimmed the rest of the thread. My opinion is unchanged but it is tempered, particularly by the part about his car. My suggestion is to disinvite him from the house but just be prepared for the douche move of showing up and crashing on your couch.

War is god
Last edited by: Crank: Mar 2, 18 14:06
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [timboricki] [ In reply to ]
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timboricki wrote:
Is he married?

Not married, but living with his girlfriend with whom he has a kid. They have been together for at least 10 years, so, they might as well be married.

timboricki wrote:
Is he not paying because the wife controls all of the money and doesn’t “let” him spend money?
Or- does she know he’s doing this? If my wife heard i owed someone money, she’d make sure it got paid immediately.
He goes out of his way to conceal his income (and debt) from his significant other. She controls nothing.

timboricki wrote:
Or- let’s say this guy is hard up for cash. This trip is the one thing he looks forward to all year.
Are the other guys friends of his?
If we had a buddy that was tight with the group, but couldn’t swing the cost, we’d all chip in to cover. (And maybe not equally. Big shot buddy might pay more). This has happened for several Vegas trips. And for weddings when a friend was invited but couldn’t afford the flight.
I should have shared the facts I posted a short time ago. He works A LOT of hours and does not have a lot of money. He has a kid with his long-time live-in girlfriend and has another kid who just turned 18 (so, no more child support). The guy does not have a lot of money. Yet, he manages to have no issue with obtaining car parts. That is what rubs everyone the wrong way - he makes choices regarding the use of his disposable income and the choice is to spend it on himself while mooching off of friends.

The thing that set off one of my buddies back in August was that this guy posted pictures of his new wheels for the car he takes down to the rally on Facebook. My buddy called me and said, "has that sonofabitch paid you yet?" Nope ...

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, I would have guessed you were all under age 26. Can't imagine someone over 30yo behaving this way. You are taking about a $400 roadtrip!

This guy is a serious mooch. And who ever heard of a lawyer NOT pursuing collections?? Haha
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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With friends like some of you, what is the point in working? I need money too!


_____________________________________
DISH is how we do it.
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [H-] [ In reply to ]
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H- wrote:
Quote:
I feel the need to share some Kevin stories.
Ok old man. We've heard those before.

Is your son always complaining about you retelling stuff -- my kids do.

My wife does. And my Dad has that problem.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I haven’t read every response so these ideas may have been put forth already but I have two ideas for you. I get into these situations with family (wife’s family specifically) and hate it. My marriage was very strained recently over such matters.

One idea is to ask the other buddies to each pay a little more and as a group cover costs for this one guy. Maybe he can’t pay. Whatever. Cover him across the group so it’s not all on you and just let it go.

Second idea is to require anyone going to pay upfront. You’ll book on your card but everyone has to pay their share by x date or they’re out and will be replaced by someone else.
Last edited by: JD21: Mar 2, 18 16:51
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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spookini wrote:
I'm going to guess that you and Brick ("gift it to him") are employed but not self-employed.

Self-employed.
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
That's how I thought of it the first year. If there was even a semblance of appreciation, I could, perhaps, continue to go that route. Therein lies the rub, there is none. I appreciate your comment. It is what I am struggling with.

It is a struggle. Maybe this is his demon. I have mine. Maybe he is worth the expense or maybe not. Only you can tell. I don’t know the right answer. I expect you will come to know it, if only because you are struggling with it.

If you have spoken to him to let him know that there is no shame in his behavior regarding this trip and that you are truly happy to pay his way because you enjoy his company, and he expresses no appreciation, then you will have information (which you may already have) that will inform your behavior. After all, it is only your behavior
That you can truly control.

Good luck and Godspeed. You are a good friend.
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
Everybody has that one friend who never seems to be able to find his wallet. But, has it ever gotten to the point it has ended the friendship?

I have a buddy who is the consummate mooch. I can put up with it most of the time. But, a group of us go to a car rally every April down on the NC/TN border. We rent cabins at a resort. Cost ranges from $350-450 per person, depending on how long we stay. This April will be my 4th time going.

I usually make the reservations, so the bill is on my card. There are 4 of us staying in a cabin. Everyone pays me at the end ... except the one guy. Three years in a row, he has not paid. That frosts me enough, but, the other guys are now upset that he is getting a free ride (and clearly taking advantage of me). So, this year, I set deadlines for payment payment of the 2017 amount and am requiring everyone to pay in advance for 2018. Everyone else paid for 2017 ... except this one guy. Everyone else is on track to pay in advance for 2018. Except this one guy.

He knows my address. He has my PayPal. I even sent invoices to everyone so he can pay online and doesn't even need a PayPal account. He says he has the money, but "wants to pay me face to face." That means he is going to give some sob story. My guess is he will have a post-dated check for 2017 lodging and will ask to pay after-the-fact for 2018. Mind you, it has been 11 months since we went in 2017 and he is the only one who has not paid.

In the past, I have never, ever allowed money to ruin a friendship, but, this is getting to be a bit much.

Anyone ever face a situation like this? What did you do?


An old saying from a guy I worked with...

Everyone is a friend until money starts changing hands.

He's being an ass, ditch him.
Last edited by: racin_rusty: Mar 2, 18 17:52
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I cut people like this out of my life. Not worth the angst.
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Re: Has money ever ended a friendship? [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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He is taking advantage of you. 1x - OK. 2x - not OK. Anything after that, that's on you.

Have you and your other buddies consider not telling him about the next trip and just cut him out of the email chain? Or perhaps go to a different event and not tell him?
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