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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
you'll note that this frame, in front of the head tube top, where the steerer exits, slopes up. this is okay if you use the factory stem, or a stem that follows this profile. but as you can see even the factory stem is built to really hug that profile. in my opinion it would be a mistake to try to use this bike as a long/low bike beyond the longness, lowness it currently exhibits.

To be clear, I would never have bought this bike if it didn't work for me from a pad x and pad y perspective with stock parts. Which I did.

I don't know what the cause of this was, but it wasn't a one shot deal. Like I said, we tried three stems and two different forks, and it just didn't work. Like Jeroen, I also shaved off threads from the pinch bolt.

My sense is that it's an issue with the single pinch bolt combined with the heft of the stock stem (and the tolerances between stem and steerer). I almost guarantee that a normal stem with two bolts and a standard carcass/body to it would have held pat.

Let me clarify my comments about how I ride differently than most people. I don't know anyone else who rides like that on the types of roads I ride in the configuration I ride. And yes, I ride in the lowest and longest stock configuration that this bike allows and provides for, and I ride very steep. But beyond that, like I have said, I put my elbows directly in the center of the pad. When I hit road turbulence, it hurts like a bastard on my elbows -- routinely, my pads break the skin at my elbow. So when I'm going 40 mph and I'm about to hit a storm hole cover I lift my elbows off the pad, and all the weight of upper body, which remember is very far forward, essentially falls on the tip of the extension. So there isn't distribution to the pads in these cases. That's a long lever, and I have a long cockpit. Yes, theoretically there shouldn't be horizontal force, but in practice there is uneven force applied. Occasionally -- for instance, if I'm texting or taking a selfie or something -- I may put a bunch of weight on one extension only, or one side of the cockpit only.

Additionally, the roads in and around the city of Philadelphia, where I do a big chunk of my riding, are utter garbage. I also get biweekly flats, even with tubeless setups with excessive sealant. Just because you flat twice a year on the same tires doesn't mean I'm doing something wrong with my tires.

All this is admittedly an extreme and unusual way of riding, and to be clear I don't think others will have this same issue, nor should they avoid buying this bike solely of my specific product issue. This post was primarily about the aftermath of all that, even as Diamondback worked with me to diagnose the product issue and in the attempts to fix it.

The way I ride notwithstanding, this shouldn't happen, which is why I sent it back and asked for a refund. The bike simply didn't work for me. It works for Jordan. It works for Dan. It works for Jeroen. It'll likely work for others, especially if DB ever gets their act together with the stem and front end.
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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japarker24 wrote:
Have you ever ridden a Trek SC? Also, why was the SC not in the aero shootout? Seems to be a very aero bike and don't hear many complaints about it...


Yes, I have, and it was maybe the best TT bike I've owned. But it's not all that easy to maintain or travel with -- or at least, not like my Felt. That said, I have a black-on-black 7 series on order. Should be here in November. Pretty stoked about it.

And the SC wasn't in the aero shootout because the relationship between the Speed Concept and P5 is well known, and both Trek and Cervelo agree that they are very close, with the P5 slightly better at low yaw.
Last edited by: kileyay: Sep 13, 17 15:44
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
Slowman wrote:
you'll note that this frame, in front of the head tube top, where the steerer exits, slopes up. this is okay if you use the factory stem, or a stem that follows this profile. but as you can see even the factory stem is built to really hug that profile. in my opinion it would be a mistake to try to use this bike as a long/low bike beyond the longness, lowness it currently exhibits.


To be clear, I would never have bought this bike if it didn't work for me from a pad x and pad y perspective with stock parts. Which I did.

I don't know what the cause of this was, but it wasn't a one shot deal. Like I said, we tried three stems and two different forks, and it just didn't work. Like Jeroen, I also shaved off threads from the pinch bolt.

My sense is that it's an issue with the single pinch bolt combined with the heft of the stock stem (and the tolerances between stem and steerer). I almost guarantee that a normal stem with two bolts and a standard carcass/body to it would have held pat.

Let me clarify my comments about how I ride differently than most people. I don't know anyone else who rides like that on the types of roads I ride in the configuration I ride. And yes, I ride in the lowest and longest stock configuration that this bike allows and provides for, and I ride very steep. But beyond that, like I have said, I put my elbows directly in the center of the pad. When I hit road turbulence, it hurts like a bastard on my elbows -- routinely, my pads break the skin at my elbow. So when I'm going 40 mph and I'm about to hit a storm hole cover I lift my elbows off the pad, and all the weight of upper body, which remember is very far forward, essentially falls on the tip of the extension. So there isn't distribution to the pads in these cases. That's a long lever, and I have a long cockpit. Yes, theoretically there shouldn't be horizontal force, but in practice there is uneven force applied. Occasionally -- for instance, if I'm texting or taking a selfie or something -- I may put a bunch of weight on one extension only, or one side of the cockpit only.

Additionally, the roads in and around the city of Philadelphia, where I do a big chunk of my riding, are utter garbage. I also get biweekly flats, even with tubeless setups with excessive sealant. Just because you flat twice a year on the same tires doesn't mean I'm doing something wrong with my tires.

All this is admittedly an extreme and unusual way of riding, and to be clear I don't think others will have this same issue, nor should they avoid buying this bike solely of my specific product issue. This post was primarily about the aftermath of all that, even as Diamondback worked with me to diagnose the product issue and in the attempts to fix it.

The way I ride notwithstanding, this shouldn't happen, which is why I sent it back and asked for a refund. The bike simply didn't work for me. It works for Jordan. It works for Dan. It works for Jeroen. It'll likely work for others, especially if DB ever gets their act together with the stem and front end.

Sounds like you need a Flex-stem, or suspension fork...which would match the disc brakes, I guess ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Diamondback didn't do anything concerning the refund.

It was processed by PayPal as part of the SNAD complaint.
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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I think I just need my season to be over so I can ride my gravel and mountain bike for the next six months. Just got back from slicing open the side of a $110 road tubeless tire and I've had about enough of all this.
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
I think I just need my season to be over so I can ride my gravel and mountain bike for the next six months. Just got back from slicing open the side of a $110 road tubeless tire and I've had about enough of all this.

What road tubeless tire is $110?? =8-0

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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S-Works Turbo is $100 + tax.
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
S-Works Turbo is $100 + tax.

I can't say I would recommend using that tire, even if it was less expensive...I've run a couple as a rear tire, and in both cases they suffered punctures that required plugging not long after mounting them. And I was using them in the same manner as I do my typical Turbo Cottons, which I rarely puncture. I know that flats can be a hit or miss thing sometimes, but the chance of it happening on 2 different tires on 2 separate occasions (separated by a period of time using a different tire) didn't seem to be completely coincidental.

Not only that, but in my roller testing, they weren't all that great speed-wise, especially considering that their mounted width was WAY above the 26C rating, even on a narrow rim (~27mm on an Open Pro and ~30mm on a Jet+).

So, IMO, they really don't have that much going for them...

If you want to run a reasonably durable road tubeless tire of about the same width, and ~same Crr, but at a significantly lower cost, you can't go wrong with the 25C IRC RoadLite. You should be able to find them for ~$50-60...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
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Dark Mark wrote:
Reading all of this just makes me wish you had purchased a Falco.

No one was THAT stupid.


Oh wait.... ;)

blog
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
I have a black-on-black 7 series on order. Should be here in November. Pretty stoked about it.

I don't understand why any triathlete would not buy a Speed Concept 7 series.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
Have you ever ridden a Trek SC? Also, why was the SC not in the aero shootout? Seems to be a very aero bike and don't hear many complaints about it...


Yes, I have, and it was maybe the best TT bike I've owned. But it's not all that easy to maintain or travel with -- or at least, not like my Felt. That said, I have a black-on-black 7 series on order. Should be here in November. Pretty stoked about it.

And the SC wasn't in the aero shootout because the relationship between the Speed Concept and P5 is well known, and both Trek and Cervelo agree that they are very close, with the P5 slightly better at low yaw.

I thought you were sold on the Premier Tactical.

Let food be thy medicine...
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I don't understand why any triathlete would not buy a Speed Concept 7 series.

Because they got a great deal on one of the left over 9 series frames? Black and Red!
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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Why wouldn't they be?

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
Why would you quote the entire post?

Because everyone else here does, on every other post?
Groupthink maybe.
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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* there is also a reply button so you don't need to quote the entire post *

That said, what irks me as a consumer about this whole saga is not that K could have screwed up the bike by using the wrong components, or doing something to it / tweaking it that made it have the issues at had. What irks me is the fact that DB said that they would refund him the money, and then just didn't.

That's weaker than circus lemonade.

DB should have said that he screwed it up, and therefore he wasn't going to get a refund. Or, alternately, once they committed to giving him the refund, they should have just given him the damn refund. He shouldn't have had to resort to PayPal to get it.

That's the issue. Not what was done to the bike, not whether or not other people had the same issue, Etc. Either you're going to honor a warranty or not. And if you're going to honor a warranty, you pay up..

I'm one of those people who's out there looking at this, and thinking about how I'm planning on upgrading my bike because I want to try and get those few extra seconds out to maybe do something a little bit better than I did last year. At the same time, I'm also thinking about how my customer service experience has been with the company that makes the bike that I currently ride: Cervelo. Cervelo makes great bikes, but, since their bikes aren't made in heaven by Angels, occasionally one will be produced with a flaw, like mine was.. once I notice there was an issue with my bike, I contacted the company, and they replaced the frame, no questions asked, quickly, with zero stress.

That's kind of the point here. The issue with this particular bike could have been a one-off. It could have been a bad day at the factory where one didn't get laid up quite right. It really doesn't matter. There was a problem, Diamondback said they would fix the problem, and yet they didn't. Promises made. Promises broken. That's a big deal.

Just an average middle-aged consumer with a few bucks to spend on a bike who is trying to figure out which brand I'm going to spend it on talking here.
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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kjmcawesome wrote:
kileyay wrote:
I have a black-on-black 7 series on order. Should be here in November. Pretty stoked about it.


I don't understand why any triathlete would not buy a Speed Concept 7 series.


I had a 12 year old Trek Mtb that got a seat tube crack, and Trek immediately replaced it with a brand new top-of-the-line Top Fuel, no questions asked. That's another reason to buy Trek. You can count on them.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Hahaha, i will try with a sledgehammer....

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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I did neither read this whole thread nor the former thread, so if my remark is irrelevant pleas ignore it, but as I read this:

kileyay wrote:
On May 30, I went for a three hour ride with the brand new fork and brand new stem and 110% torque, carefully cleaned and greased bolts,

I had to think about this thread on greased bolts:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ring=torque#p6407379

See especially post #7 of this thread.
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
When I hit road turbulence, it hurts like a bastard on my elbows -- routinely, my pads break the skin at my elbow. So when I'm going 40 mph and I'm about to hit a storm hole cover I lift my elbows off the pad, and all the weight of upper body, which remember is very far forward, essentially falls on the tip of the extension. So there isn't distribution to the pads in these cases. That's a long lever, and I have a long cockpit. Yes, theoretically there shouldn't be horizontal force, but in practice there is uneven force applied. Occasionally -- for instance, if I'm texting or taking a selfie or something -- I may put a bunch of weight on one extension only, or one side of the cockpit only.

You forgot the pink font on the text I've bolded... at least I hope... you don't seriously text and take selfies when you ride do you?

As for your riding technique, you need thicker armpads for the small bumps and you need to get out of aero for the big bumps. Transferring all your upper body weight to the ends of the extensions on a long setup when you hit a bump is not gonna end well, sooner or later.
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
That said, I have a black-on-black 7 series on order. Should be here in November. Pretty stoked about it.

Are you trying to be like me? ;)

Just curious.... were you not able to order a 9 series? I've been meaning to ask my LBS this but I keep forgetting to.

blog
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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Why would anyone want to buy a 9 series?
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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can't speak for kiley here, but i ride a NP2 vs. a P5 for the simple reasoning that it's 98% as fast (or closer) as the p5 but with far easier ''live-ability'' and it costs way less. i had a p5 for a few years; loved it. just don't wanna deal with that type of bike anymore. 7 series vs. 9 series is a similar dynamic, potentially.
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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Weight and stiffness.

And anyone that already has a 9 series and wants a new one but doesn't want to downgrade.

blog
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
can't speak for kiley here, but i ride a NP2 vs. a P5 for the simple reasoning that it's 98% as fast (or closer) as the p5 but with far easier ''live-ability'' and it costs way less. i had a p5 for a few years; loved it. just don't wanna deal with that type of bike anymore. 7 series vs. 9 series is a similar dynamic, potentially.

I get what you are saying with Cervelo but Trek isn't the same as the speed concepts are the same bike. The 7 vs 9 series are no different when trying to work on them or break them down for travel. The only differences between the bikes is the carbon.

blog
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Re: Caveat emptor with Diamondback: Andean purchase experience worst ever in my tri/cycling consumerism history [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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ahhh, now that you say that i recall reading that the 7 and 9 are the same front end/rear brake. not like it used to be. whoops.

although that almost reinforces the performance:cost argument. identical performance, much lower cost ($1500 less? depending on 'deal' level)
Last edited by: jkhayc: Sep 14, 17 5:28
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