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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Slowman wrote:


so, i just don't think calling me (or anyone) lazy and a bullshitter and a liar because we don't recognize that these values is helpful, because i really don't think there is a travel value that i can access. there are far easier ways to achieve value for hotel rooms, rental cars, and airlines.

were i running USAT i would stop all that running around looking for phantom discounts and instead focus ALL my attention on getting bikes to races cheap.

.


this is why i was hoping you would run for USAT board. your scaling the one day fee to race distance is brilliant. it is a punishment to a newbie coming to sprint race paying $15 when their walmart bike is 1/4th that price already...., while to a 70.3 participant $15 is just a small percentage. As for perks of discounts, i love how you mention phanton. the hotel/car rental price just artifically raises the price, to account for the percentage discount USAT offers, yet you use many online booking sites you get that discount anyways. In addition with things like AirBnB, who the hell books hotels anymore?

h2ofun wrote:

I have never seen anything that says our courses have to be certified to a distance. In running that can be critical, like you cannot get into Boston without running a certified marathon course, but in Triathlon, totally different. Swim will always be different, even if you have anchors on the bottom since wind or current can still move them around. A bike turn around as to be, as you stated, put in a safe place, not just at a distance. Same happens for runs. So again, where is the issue? I see no rule that stated a race has to be specific certified distances, even though some like to complain. And it is always funny that they try to use a GPS unit for their justification. They are just not that accurate. I believe for run courses to be certified, they have to use the old wheel method?


most amatures will have one strong leg in tri, not all three. swim course is difficult to do yes... BUT 2/3s of tri participants are bike or run strong, which are courses easy to certify with a wheel. it gives them something to look forward to. for instance the bike strong user may want to compare their 20k tri bike leg to a 20km tt time. or runner, comparing their 10k tri run to and open 10k. course certification is useful also, as some may try to BQ in iron distance tri.


Unless the bike or run is 100% the same, like flat, no curves or turns, no wind, no humidity, no heat, you are never going to be able to compare.

no, you will be able to compare. you will know if a race is difficult compared to others, to know if you gave it your all. how the hell can i compared a sprint 400m swim / 20k bike / 6k run to a race with 750m s / 18k bike / 5k run
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Not that I know but I do know they post annual reports (where they would be exactly Idk).

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Slowman wrote:


so, i just don't think calling me (or anyone) lazy and a bullshitter and a liar because we don't recognize that these values is helpful, because i really don't think there is a travel value that i can access. there are far easier ways to achieve value for hotel rooms, rental cars, and airlines.

were i running USAT i would stop all that running around looking for phantom discounts and instead focus ALL my attention on getting bikes to races cheap.

.


this is why i was hoping you would run for USAT board. your scaling the one day fee to race distance is brilliant. it is a punishment to a newbie coming to sprint race paying $15 when their walmart bike is 1/4th that price already...., while to a 70.3 participant $15 is just a small percentage. As for perks of discounts, i love how you mention phanton. the hotel/car rental price just artifically raises the price, to account for the percentage discount USAT offers, yet you use many online booking sites you get that discount anyways. In addition with things like AirBnB, who the hell books hotels anymore?

h2ofun wrote:

I have never seen anything that says our courses have to be certified to a distance. In running that can be critical, like you cannot get into Boston without running a certified marathon course, but in Triathlon, totally different. Swim will always be different, even if you have anchors on the bottom since wind or current can still move them around. A bike turn around as to be, as you stated, put in a safe place, not just at a distance. Same happens for runs. So again, where is the issue? I see no rule that stated a race has to be specific certified distances, even though some like to complain. And it is always funny that they try to use a GPS unit for their justification. They are just not that accurate. I believe for run courses to be certified, they have to use the old wheel method?


most amatures will have one strong leg in tri, not all three. swim course is difficult to do yes... BUT 2/3s of tri participants are bike or run strong, which are courses easy to certify with a wheel. it gives them something to look forward to. for instance the bike strong user may want to compare their 20k tri bike leg to a 20km tt time. or runner, comparing their 10k tri run to and open 10k. course certification is useful also, as some may try to BQ in iron distance tri.


Unless the bike or run is 100% the same, like flat, no curves or turns, no wind, no humidity, no heat, you are never going to be able to compare.


no, you will be able to compare. you will know if a race is difficult compared to others, to know if you gave it your all. how the hell can i compared a sprint 400m swim / 20k bike / 6k run to a race with 750m s / 18k bike / 5k run

I really could care less. I have raced around 200 tri's, and I play with the results, but never get too excited. I have done many with short or long portions of each leg. Do I care? Nope. All that matters is the finish time compared to others. I understand for some, this is an OCD issue, but it will never happen our sport, and has nothing to do with USAT.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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the same way you compare a hilly run versus a flat run etc. Athletes know what they did. And almost all athletes get splits so there is that way.

Also if I know 2 sprints are "different" I'm not going to go split by split in the same way if I do a easy 5k versus a hilly 5k. I'm not going to be able to straight up compare the 2.

Give me a course that you measure and give me that as your announced course and that's about as good as it gets. Having 3 different courses is going to always create harder demands on RD. So give me accurate measured courses over a set specific race demand sprint course of 750/20k/5k (that in reality was 2.9 miles not 5k, etc).

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [tobrien] [ In reply to ]
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I like USAT. I know many small tri's can't find insurance and they go to usat it's just a very simple way to organize things. I like USAT All American rankings and i like that some of my money goes to help pro's. Triathlon has been good to me and for me . No matter the price i pay i will never be able to pay back for the fun, thrills, enjoyment and excitement . It has changed my life and the life of my children and grandchildren. I have met many great people at races and have many great memories. I find triathletes to be fun, kind and good people. I think the people at USAT are the same.
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
I think you get great overall value.

Pretty much anything I can think of that adds value to a race is due to the RD, staff, volunteers, and sponsors. Some of the absolute worst races I've done have been USAT sanctioned, and some of the best were not.

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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I think the USATF comparison is somewhat enlightening; as a member of both USAT and USATF, I often find myself shaking my head at USATF (which my teammates and I often call USAWTF) and wondering why they can't be as competent as USAT.

What USATF does better than USAT: provide team-based competition. As synthetic wrote, you only have to be a USATF member if you want to score in certain races, but in my region (USATF New England) there are several series (road, mountain, XC) that have team competition. There are separate divisions by 10-yr age group in the team competition, so it really is competitive (especially in road racing). My experiences with regional USAT team (club) competition have been utterly disappointing--you have to dig to figure out which race is the club championship, and the scoring is not that well thought out to help smaller clubs be competitive. Very few clubs even seem to try--my club "won" the regional championship one year with only 2 other teams even showing up.

What USAT does better than USATF: most everything else, as far as I can see--and to be clear, the team based stuff I've referred to above is from the regional, not the national, organization. The national championships from USAT (I've only ever done the Olympic AG) are orders of magnitude better than the national championships USATF puts on for amateurs. You can't even tell you're at a championship road race, except that one or two clubs show up from out of town. The ranking system, while surely not perfect, is pretty fun. The website sometimes has interesting stuff on it. Is all this stuff (plus the other benefits) worth my membership fee? That's kind of a personal choice. But I do agree that the one-day membership thing is kind of ridiculous--USATF does nothing like that.
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I wrote a question to the USAT ranking team about an hour ago on a Sunday. Was hoping to hear back tomorrow on Monday.
Well, I just got an answer back from USAT a few minutes ago on a Sunday. So sorry, I continue to be impressed with the responses
that USAT provides and tries to support their members.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [tobrien] [ In reply to ]
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You can now just do Lifetime Tri and avoid the $15 altogether! It's only 400-something for the rest!

http://www.triathlete.com/2017/07/news/life-time-tri-plans-make-short-course-triathlon-great_303437

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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OP here....

Oh wait! I just got an email indicating that I qualified for USA Triathlon National Championship based on the result of my race! I *did* have a pretty good race, but I'd hardly call it "national class". Since I have never qualified for anything before, I question the legitimacy.

I still don't know what to think. I acknowledge that the USAT offers value. But for $15/race - I feel like the value ought to be manifestly evident on race day.
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [tobrien] [ In reply to ]
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I would say not legitimate based on the fact that I also 'qualified' and I am a solid MOP at best... sorry

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
I think you get great overall value.

And with such insightful posts like that, sometimes I think it would be good for ST'rs to have to follow the type of guidelines used over in the 'change my mind' Reddit group: https://www.reddit.com/...ngemyview/wiki/rules, but especially so when I see your posts... like that classic crank length thread you participated in.

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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hadukla wrote:
I would say not legitimate based on the fact that I also 'qualified' and I am a solid MOP at best... sorry

Rule used to be you need to qualify in Olympic dist races to get to Nats, now any bozo at sprint on hybrid bike can get in... as long as 'race' is usat certified.
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [tobrien] [ In reply to ]
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tobrien wrote:
OP here....

Oh wait! I just got an email indicating that I qualified for USA Triathlon National Championship based on the result of my race! I *did* have a pretty good race, but I'd hardly call it "national class". Since I have never qualified for anything before, I question the legitimacy.

I still don't know what to think. I acknowledge that the USAT offers value. But for $15/race - I feel like the value ought to be manifestly evident on race day.

Why be so negative? You met the rules of doing a race to get an invite. Yep, I get them all the time. If you want to go and race in the deepest field in the US for an Olympic distance, go test yourself. If not, why knock others that are thrilled?

But line, all sports, etc are a business. If they do not make money, they do not exist. If the 99% of folks who go to nationals, who are not FOP elites, do not go, there is not race for anyone. Is this what you are saying you would want.

Man, do you buy starbucks? I bet I can find things anyone does that I would say is a waste of money. But this 15 bucks stuff is just amazing what some will get all worked up about. I just lost 500 bucks on my airline ticket changes for Penticton since I screwed it up. I guess I have better start a thread attacking the airline industry for being thieves, and just forget I am the one who did not read the details correctly.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [mgreer] [ In reply to ]
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I don't recall what my personal insurance paid and my copay, but I do recall getting a check from USAT for several hundred dollars after breaking my collar bone in a race.
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Most parents I see could not run a mile to save their lives, so how are they role models?

Oh come the fuck on. There's more to life than running proficiency. My dad was a cat 1 bike racer for years. Has absolutely no relevancy to his parenting.
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
hadukla wrote:
I would say not legitimate based on the fact that I also 'qualified' and I am a solid MOP at best... sorry


Rule used to be you need to qualify in Olympic dist races to get to Nats, now any bozo at sprint on hybrid bike can get in... as long as 'race' is usat certified.
And... if you go to Duathlon Nationals or another low attendance "National Championship" race... you can make TeamUSA by showing up and finishing. I get why they make it easier to get to Nats... quite simply its about getting a higher attendance to the these Nationals and to some degree International events.

We're getting off track though, I like having a governing body of safety rules, race insurance, competition rules/officials and think there is some merit to having a reduced or sliding one day license fee.
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [xeon] [ In reply to ]
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xeon wrote:
synthetic wrote:
hadukla wrote:
I would say not legitimate based on the fact that I also 'qualified' and I am a solid MOP at best... sorry


Rule used to be you need to qualify in Olympic dist races to get to Nats, now any bozo at sprint on hybrid bike can get in... as long as 'race' is usat certified.

And... if you go to Duathlon Nationals or another low attendance "National Championship" race... you can make TeamUSA by showing up and finishing. I get why they make it easier to get to Nats... quite simply its about getting a higher attendance to the these Nationals and to some degree International events.

We're getting off track though, I like having a governing body of safety rules, race insurance, competition rules/officials and think there is some merit to having a reduced or sliding one day license fee.

So, what is the issue, those that show play, those that do not seem to bitch

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
hadukla wrote:
I would say not legitimate based on the fact that I also 'qualified' and I am a solid MOP at best... sorry


Rule used to be you need to qualify in Olympic dist races to get to Nats, now any bozo at sprint on hybrid bike can get in... as long as 'race' is usat certified.

And why is this an issue?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [JSully] [ In reply to ]
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JSully wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Most parents I see could not run a mile to save their lives, so how are they role models?


Oh come the fuck on. There's more to life than running proficiency. My dad was a cat 1 bike racer for years. Has absolutely no relevancy to his parenting.

Who says anything about running proficiency? Why do they have kids run around a track in PE for school? My point is most parents could not even pass the PE standards, like run just one lap around a track they are in such poor
physical shape. If parents are out of shape, do you think their kids are in shape?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
synthetic wrote:
hadukla wrote:
I would say not legitimate based on the fact that I also 'qualified' and I am a solid MOP at best... sorry


Rule used to be you need to qualify in Olympic dist races to get to Nats, now any bozo at sprint on hybrid bike can get in... as long as 'race' is usat certified.


And why is this an issue?

the bar has been lowered. maybe difficulty was the original reason for the explosive growth in tri 8 years ago. now that everyone is a winner, what is to strive for?
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
So, what is the issue, those that show play, those that do not seem to bitch
No issue from me... just a realization for me at least that TeamUSA isn't really something that is hard to attain, outside of paying a registration fee and traveling somewhere. When I got into this sport a mentor of mine was an Elite AG female... I figured going to Nats and qualifying for TeamUSA and competing at ITU Worlds took being a great athlete with focused training... going by her. Now that I've made TeamUSA a few times myself and raced a few Worlds, I see things a little differently after being immersed in it myself. A local acquaintance of mine showed up to a race with a TeamUSA kit... solid MOP'er in small local races, so I'm scratching my head, turns out they qualified at Duathlon Nats. The Sprint and Olympic triathlons can be competitive but even they seem to roll deep.
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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How many grandparents do you see racing with their grandkids as an example? I do lots of this and basically see none. Most parents I see could not run a mile to save their lives, so how are they role models?

It sounds like you are a great role model for everyone...

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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
If parents are out of shape, do you think their kids are in shape?

My brother (former triathlete/college swimmer) is really out of shape these days. But his son plays soccer, and his daughter is a gymnast...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: What does USAT provide when I have to pay them $15 a race? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
I wrote a question to the USAT ranking team about an hour ago on a Sunday. Was hoping to hear back tomorrow on Monday.
Well, I just got an answer back from USAT a few minutes ago on a Sunday. So sorry, I continue to be impressed with the responses
that USAT provides and tries to support their members.

Interesting. I CALLED them on monday with a question about my membership. Still havent heard back.

Maybe they only work on sunday?
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