Not if I have any thing to say about it. Now it is just going to fuel my fire that much more. I'm going to beat that piece of shit. See you in Kona colom, asshole!!

I think you and Sam Gyde are going to be unstoppable at Kona after this. Got rip it up boys!

In any case, as he has served his time and allowed to race under the WADA code, there is nothing to be done, however, on their second round, former dopers do need an additional degree of scrutiny. Those in the pro ranks have it from their peers and from the testers.

Those in the age group ranks can fly under the radar so it is up to all of us age groupers to make sure that all peers are aware of who they are racing.

On a related note, while this does not affect Sam Gyde in terms of getting a Kona slot (I think he may already have had one from last year from winning his age group), it does affect the first guy who did not go to Kona from Frankfurt due to rolldown. Sucks to be that guy.

Why would it be reasonable to think that he is calling ALL of the people on the podium dopers? What would the odds be that of all of the people on the podium, he is the only clean athlete and all of the rest are dopers? Doesn't seem reasonable.

Yes, because he's sharing the podium with women who are clearly doping.

If I wear a t-shirt to a race as a spectator that says "dopers suck", are you also assuming that I'm calling every athlete there a doper?

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Yeah, if I was in the audience I would just assume he was taking a general stand against dopers in general, not someone on the podium with him, that would never occur to me.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
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Couple of general points here, and this is all old info, but I think that it is worth pointing out again. Is Weiss being tested? I don't know, but probably. I mention him out because you brought him up. It's difficult to know just who is being tested, etc. For instance, do you get tested or file whereabouts? Dan pointed this out in his long pieces on anti-doping.

Here is the USADA list, updated quarterly. Granted, he's not a USA athlete.

http://www.usada.org/...thlete-test-history/

You can clearly see who is tested, how many times, updated quarterly. It usually takes about a month or so after the quarter ends for them to update. I file whereabouts. I have not been OOC tested this year. I don't show up on the list above. Other US athletes file whereabouts, but do not show up. So, you can't definitively say which US athletes are and aren't subject to filing whereabouts based on this list of tests. But, you can clearly see which US athletes are tested and how often. It does not say if these tests are in or out of comp though.

Here is the WTC page on results management as well as the registered testing pool page.

http://www.ironman.com/...t.aspx#axzz36eRYfYRg

http://www.ironman.com/...l.aspx#axzz36eRYfYRg

You can see who, according to WTC, is subject to filing whereabouts and therefore, out of comp testing. But, it's a tricky issue. Great Britain, for example, pulled any long course athlete that used to be in their system from filing whereabouts and being subjected to testing under the British tri federation. So now, that responsibility falls wholly on WTC for athletes like Tim Don, Rachel Joyce, Jodie, Leanda, etc. I name those folks because I am 99% sure that in the past they were subject to testing from British tri.

Blah, blah, blah, it's tough to know just who's tested, how much, etc. WTC does do quite a bit of testing, that's been stated and pretty well verified. What isn't really verified, has been asked, is who is tested, full results disclosure, etc. The WADA 2012 report lists a summary of all of the WTC, ITU testing as well as a few others I believe. A quick Triathlon summary, you could probably break it down further into ITU/WTC as well as a couple of other types of testing. Total samples in-comp 2054 Urine with 20 AAFs and 19 ATFs. Total sample out-of-comp 1541 Urine with 2 AAFs and 14 ATFs. Total in and out of comp blood 101 and 344, respectively with no AAFs nor ATFs. AAF = adverse analytical findings, ATF = atypical findings. But, neither are necessarily sanctionable. And, you can further get to some of the individual NADOs, etc. but that would take some time. You can't find the individual athlete on those reports.

http://www.wada-ama.org/...tions/annual-report/

http://www.wada-ama.org/...A-AR-2012-Web-EN.pdf

Again, a lot of this was covered by Dan in past articles. But, it ends up getting lost a bit because attention spans or short or until the next questionable athlete ends up on the podium.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

While there is some evidence that is true for steroids and possibly some other peds, EPO has been shown to possibly result in long term negative affects after someone stops using it.

There's a reason there isn't a legal system in the civilized world that functions like this. Obviously companies like WTC are allowed to forbid whoever the heck they want to... that doesn't mean they should.

"In any case, as he has served his time and allowed to race under the WADA code, there is nothing to be done, however, on their second round, former dopers do need an additional degree of scrutiny."

to me, it seems like a couple of things ought to be expected. first, if USAT, the DTU, and other NFs are getting money from sanctioning races like roth, IM germany, other IM and challenge races, et al, a lot of that money ought to be funneled back into elite AG drug testing. that ought to be demanded by the race organizers and the competitors.

second, when you dope in cycling, as a pro, you serve your time and you're back in the peloton. not so in triathlon, in the pro or the AG ranks. yes, you can race. but i think you're going to be booed until you also offer up your explanation in transparency. i don't understand the cheating mindset. but i do believe in redemption. but i don't believe in redemption unless it is sought.

i think a lot of slowtwitchers and AG triathletes would give colom a much better welcome if he handled his situation as did some of the discovery/postal cyclists who were popped. maybe he has. but if he has i haven't read his explanation as to how and why he doped. if we can find that explanation and apology i'm happy to let slowtwitchers read whatever i can find. maybe herbert or somebody else knows of something i don't. but it's clear triathlon, as a community, will not welcome you back until you earn your way back.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Speaking of AG'ers standing on podiums behind former professional with questionable pasts….

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
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you have me at a disadvantage. i don't know even from the photo who you're referring to. but i certainly hope it's somebody with a PROVEN questionable past.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

That's me in the grey Zoot shirt standing next to Laurent Jalbert at 70.3 Worlds. He was 3rd, I was 4th in M40-44 in 2011.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/...ot-confess-to-doping

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
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I fully agree that sport 'ought' to be clean or that it is a 'privilege' to race either professionally or at the championship level. I'm on board with funneling some money into testing, pro and championship level age group testing. There's got to be some amount of altruism in that, and doing the testing because it's the 'right thing to do'. It's a cost, WTC says that it's a cost. USAT is going to say it's a cost. How is that cost going to be justified?

There was a big cat-fight after IMFF yesterday because of the combined MPro/WPro/AG start. Of course, some of us 'expected' that the start would have been men pros, women pros, a gap, and then age groupers, but it wasn't. That seems relatively 'easy'. But, how is the cost of 'fair play' going to be demanded? I'm on board with it.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

No, it's not.

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

ok, who's the photoshop wizard that will put Sam in that picture?

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TEAM F3 Undurance

Just photoshop his t-shirt on to me. And make me look angry. :)

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

i don't think anybody who got popped, of any stature, in any era, should expect to be given a free pass back into the community. i think it's less of a stain on your reputation if your doping infraction was for - and there is nomenclature i recently read that fits this perfectly, i just don't remember it - androgenic agents or oxygen carrying capacity on the one hand versus stimulants and pain killers and the like on the other hand.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

"It's a cost, WTC says that it's a cost. USAT is going to say it's a cost. How is that cost going to be justified?"

because i just paid 800 fucking dollars to enter your race and you owe me a clean race. and that race - especially if it's ironman - is far and away responsible for more of the discretionary money an NF takes in than any other single source, so the NF owes the RD a clean race.

i don't think that means that you test all the AG winners. i think you target those who deserve to be targeted. whether it's a tax agency or an anti-doping agency, those with suspicious profiles get targeted. anybody who's a previous doper fits a suspicious profile. if i'm clean the last thing i want is for people to suspect me and for nobody to test me.

and that's what happens. that's how we've caught a few dopers recently. USADA and USAT have stepped to the plate and aided testing in no-draft races. but i don't know how much of it was AG.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I would pay a higher entry fee to help defer the cost of testing.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

At what it costs to enter an IM, I want EVERY AGer who qualifies for Kona at all races to be tested while they are accepting their slot and paying their money. 100%.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Very valid point. I raced a local iron distance last year in Germany for less than a third of the usual IM fee. Even this race tested AGers (and the winner was positive btw).

Money is no argument to me (unless they post a breakdown of the costs which validates them). Too much of the race fees goes into the WTC pockets.

can someone explain to me what the doping code is for Age Groupers?

I don't see the point of testing for Age Groupers, they are not professional athletes and I think it is unreasonable for them to have to go to the effort to get TUE's etc. They make zero money out of this sport. More importantly it would take $$$ away from testing pro's who's livelihoods depend in large part on their results.

It's probably an unpopular view, and by no means am I excusing AG dopers, they're not only cheaters but pretty pathetic ones at that. Age groupers shouldn't need to monitor their supplements, make sure they don't eat contaminated meat ;) etc.

Maybe 5 or so AG'ers could be targeted each race, but only tested for certain drugs, i.e. EPO/Steroids not more inadvertent ones.

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http://twitter.com/willrc91 --- instragram.com/willrc91

So you are saying they should have ignored Kevin Moats?

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Read my last line....that was a blatantly obvious example of cheating, just look at him....He is a very rare exception.

Although there is a grey line when it comes to getting testosterone.

But I stand by my point that funds for testing athletes can't be directed towards AG'ers at the expense of proper Pro testing

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http://twitter.com/willrc91 --- instragram.com/willrc91

Why are the Euro trophies sooo much nicer than the pieces of aluminum we get here in the States? :)

D

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Team Every Man Jack

http://www.teamemj.com