The Louisville start is so much easier. WI was full contact for 80% of the swim.[/quote]
If you want easy then keep doing Louisville. I think it's too bad we now need to make all Ironman starts "easy".

Totally agree. If it's a TT start you can forget about people relative to you on the course and the only thing you care about is going as fast as you are able. I'm sure most people who just want to complete the Ironman like the idea of a TT start, but for those racing for a Kona slot I think it's more beneficial as a mass start. I would support a TT start for the general populous, but I think it would be awesome to have a mass start for those wishing to compete for a Kona slot or AG awards.

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I see you point, but I would rather not swim a wide line avoiding traffic.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Awesome, guess I'll pull out my old classic:

"If you aren't going to swim fast move, or I will swim over you and you won't like that."


Unfortunate, but better then a first come first serve TT start.

Now if they pull, slow people first shit, I will flip out.

OK 1:15/100 metres over here.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Some people might say the same thing about having to run around you, but they do go wide and don't complain. It is not that tough to go around a person of different speed. It really won't change your finish time.

Depends on how dense the packs are. I guess will cross that bridge when I come to it, Whistler still says its a mass start, but I don't believe those generic FAQ s.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

You should have nothing more than clumps of 2-5 people at a time to pass. It should be a none issue. In the end even if the buoy is 12 m away, if you go 5 m wide you only swim 13 meters, but the reality is that you'll almost never have to cut such an extreme angle. It's going to be more like going 3 m wide while the buoy is still 100m away. This is going to be no different than catching people in the wave in front of you and steering wide so you don't clobber them. If you can have enough respect for others to do that in a wave start swim, you can do it in a TT start swim. If you are one of the guys who has limited respect for others and likes to swim over their backs, then I'd imagine that you'll end up doing the same. We can't help people who behave that way in either wave or TT starts.

But if it is not acceptable to slam into someone's back while running, then we should probably apply the same common sense and mutual respect in the water.

Dev

It is most likely to protect themselves against a charge that mass starts make it too difficult for safety personnel to spot problems. This is being driven purely by dollars, no realistic safety risks.

As triathlon has evolved from a sport to a lifestyle event, this sort of horseshit is inevitable.

The only time I have ever run anyone over in OW has been idiots who are swimming the wrong direction and come in at 90 degree angle. It happens more than one would think.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Guess I've raced my 5th & last IMCDA I want a race not a TT.

Seriously...from when is Ironman really a race? Even for the top pros it is an event of attrition and he who survives by slowing down less than the rest. In the end, an Ironman does turn into a TT on the run and it SHOULD be a TT on the bike (and of course, no one on ST drafts, so it already is a TT on the bike)

All you guys worrying about head to head racing need to take a step back for second.

There is no head to head racing in an Ironman anyway if you're not a draft master and trying to race clean. The guys wanting to race head to head are typically the ones CREATING the draft packs out of T2 because you won't do your own race and end up chasing every fast woman who passes you. Next thing you know, there are 50 guys drafting the fast girl that passed them. Stick to your own race like Rapp. The guy did a complete ITT in Kona and still finished in the top 15. Sure, in his race, it would have been advantageous to get into the pro legal group, but there is a massive difference between the men pro "pack" and the Ironman Florida pelotons.

This move for a TT start should help clean things out after T2. All you guys wanting head to head racing can race head to head with your Garmin Edge "3 second power number" rather than the guy or girl passing you. At least that's what we preach on every ST power thread, so let's try it and forget about the other guy (or girl). Maybe we'll all be shocked by how much better we do anyway, when we stop worrying about what the others are doing.

Dev

If I wanted to race against my power meter then I would stay at home and ride my trainer.

I've never done a time trial start but can see some advantages. I agree with Dev that you should have to start by race number (assigned by age group). While not 100%, it at least maintains the "race" concept within your age group. I can see potential problems with self seeding. Basically, lots of people will seed themselves strategically rather than by realistic swim time estimates. Example: 1 - fast swimmer has to ride virtually alone, so a disadvantage to go first. Better to self seed other than at the front. 2 - slower swimmer but uber biker would self seed at the front to be as close as possible to the front on the bike. 3 - Less competive athletes could seed themselves towards the front to give additional time to meet cut-offs. All that said, the majority wouldnt really think of these things. Can't see this working at all on 2 loop courses like Lake Placid, which is one of the most congested swim starts. Other courses like the old IMC, I wouldnt see any need for a change because there's lots of space and congestion isn't a problem. Of course the time trial start may help spread out the field and reduce drafting on the bike, which would be a welcome fringe benefit.

No system is perfect, but there are lots of issues with the mass starts too. I'd be happy to give it a try.

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You're doing CdA too? We'll be two of the first in the water, I can be very persuasive.

People arguing that this takes the race element away are silly. Ironman is like golf-you aren't playing your partner, you're playing the course.

Now Olympic Distance, that's Match Play ;^)

If you want easy then keep doing Louisville. I think it's too bad we now need to make all Ironman starts "easy".[/quote]
IMMT this year.

x2.

With that, it should be possible to close the thread!

I say they have a timing mat and force them through a chute (single file) when they come out of the water. If it reads longer than 2:20, you tell them they can't continue.

Yeah I'll be there :)

In all honesty I don't have that big of a problem with it, it simply drives me nuts that I can't reliably determine my position in the race as I'm racing. Granted I'm not going for a Kona slot, so no big deal there, I just like to know how I'm stacking up against others on the day.

Anyone that thinks IM can't be race never raced near the front of the M40-44ag. Every single guy there knows the capabilities of the other and are dog fighting each other the whole race. It is that thrilling element that I enjoy and without it the luster of the "event" is gone. If you want to race the course or yourself save your money and do an Ironman in your neighborhood.

I don't care what the hardcore few say, this is a great move for the other 90%. I have a swimming background and avoid IM's because of the mass start. Just not worth it to get kicked in the face repeatedly, because the sport started a certain way. The sport has gotten larger. I applaud the WTC for evolving like every other sport in the world... I am sure people thought face masks took away from footballs origins at first. I can assure you I will sign up for more events because of a TT start... Can't wait for everybody to bash me and all me a P$&&y. I have had two reconstructive shoulder surgeries from my college football days and have nightmares of my race day being ended early due to the mass start.

Why are you getting repeatedly kicked in the face during the swim? Why haven't I experienced that? Shouldn't you figure out ways to deal with your swim start anxiety without having to effect the whole race? Honest questions, not trying to be a dick.

Dev,
I assume you mean T1?

Also, I agree about Louisville. That should be the model for all future IMs. They just need to work out the little issues like people getting in line at 4am. They have done a good job the last 2 years of not letting friends/family hold your spot.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Looking at the different models that WTC is going to, the mass start, but self-seeded corrals for Florida and Tahoe seems like a great idea. Even having waves like for IMMT would be fine as you'd still know where everyone in your age group is on course. The water temperature rules and warmups seem perfectly reasonable as well.

I'll never be a fan of TT starts and I wish they had made this public before I signed up and dropped a ton of money on IMCDA.