I would think you could find a group of people to stand around in their wetsuits and punch and kick you till you feel you have qualified for your 7th ironman medal.

This will be my first IM and I will say I was scared to get the s#it beat out of me at the start of the swim, but I was ready for it. This changes things, but doesn't make me any less excited to do the event.

Do those of you who do IMs all the time think people who finish Lou are any less of a finisher that those that do non-TT starts?

I've done both IMLou (1x) and IMCDA many many times. While I don't think any finisher of IMLou is less of an Ironman, I do think any time trial start is a less of a "race". In my simplistic mind, I like knowing someone in front of me is beating me and I'm beating anyone behind me. TT races just don't provide you with that type of scenario.

Point taken. I'm not good enough yet to be that competative. It might be a good idea to do it in age group waves for that exact reason. I guess we'll all see how it goes.

If they send off roughly 100 people every 15 seconds, like PrivateIdaho is suggesting, all competitors should be in the water within 7 minutes. And for many of the people that are truly "racing", they should be starting near the front, so maybe a 1-2 minute difference max?

I did the race last year, and like others have said, it was the only triathlon swim I've done where I ran into some panic issues. If this can alleviate those issues for a majority of the racers, I'm all for it.

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I do appreciate your humor :-). I've done many more than 7 ..... but I have never had anything beat out of me in an IM swim. Probably that's because I can seed myself well, am comfortable swimming with a group, and I'm comfortable with the events. I think people getting "beat up" is very over-exaggerated in most cases .... but some contact is just part of the sport.
I haven't done IMLou .... but I do look at the TT start as a lesser event and prefer the traditional mass start. Frankly, in shorter events I see far more people running into each other with their wave starts .... but also usually less experienced and in shape swimmers as well. I am still hopeful this is just a silly rumor ;-)

Dave

I've been in this awhile, and I've done starts in many different ways. However the race is started, it isn't going to change the way I feel about being a finisher. The only thing that changes how I feel about my finish is whether I put my best out on the race course or not. If I know I've sandbagged in any way, I don't feel good about my finish. If I gave it my all, my finish place and the race structure are irrelevant, I feel good about it.

I have done Louisville several times, and since I do try to be competitive (try being the operative term), I agree that no knowing where you are in relation to other people in your age group isn't ideal. That being said, the point of a distance like IM is to get the most out of yourself as an athlete, and it is a skill to not need outside influence to get the best out of yourself. The way to prevent kicking yourself after the race because you were nicked at the finish line by a few seconds in a TT start, is to push like you are next to someone in your age group. As long as you know you gave the best you have, you can't kick yourself later and blame the race structure.

I have found my CDA swim times to be slower than my other IMs, mostly b/c of course congestion. I'd like the chance to see what I'm capable of, if allowed to actually swim.

this is definitely true, from a business perspective, but it pains me to see them catering to a group that is arguably ill-prepared or flat out not at all prepared to swim the IM distance and yet flock to the race in droves anyway.

At any rate, that's my issue to deal with, not WTCs. I just hope they do things smartly and not have any of the clusters they've had before. It is sad to see the mass start go, and will make Kona all the more exciting for those of us who qualify.

tactically speaking, does it put an additional premium on swimming ability for those that "race" or does it neutralize the swim even more? I'd say less, because despite not knowing where your competition is, a weak swimmer/strong biker will have less of a hassle on the swim and enough people to leapfrog on the bike.

OTOH, if you can get yourself into a good swim group there will be none of the matches burned in the first 5min of the swim like before.

oh well.

Stover for the win!

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Joel | My Blog | Team Rev3 Tri | Twitter @TriMadness

Maybe Dev Paul will chime in, but we've talked about this many times here on ST coming up with new solutions.

the one I always advocate is a wave start, with Pros first, then all top amateurs, (the Kona Qual Wave), and then all others in a corral system.

Key points to note are that if the Kona wave is non-wetsuit, then there needs to be sufficient time between them and the next wave. Then, getting everyone in the water in 7minutes defeats the purpose. Need to spread it out WAY more to help with the volume on the bike course and drafting.

Only drawback is the magic 17hr thing... some people will be getting less or even more time. Which is fine, if you ask me... 15 hours seems plenty.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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Americans are in for a rude shock if they race in Europe.
I know of a former iron distance race in Europe that closed the finish line at 14 hours.
100% of the field completed before the cutoff.
Raise expectations and people will rise to meet them I guess...

Don't have time to confirm, but all Euro WTC Ironman races are 16 hour limit.

This just makes too much sense for WTC to consider it. This is the best solution out there. I have said it before in previous posts as well.

It was a rumor prior to last night's IMCDA committee meeting. I know someone that was at the meeting and was posting to the IMCDA 2013 thread on iamtri as they made the decision "official".

Well put.

I'm doing my first IM at CDA.

It's a race, as long as everybody has to do the same thing - I could care less. That said I have gotten perverse pleasure from my most recent TT start at Lifetime (MN), (no wetsuit - yes!!!). coming in from the swim and seeing lotsa bikes still racked (they group your age group together so you can tell). Then, coming in for T2 to see how many are already there.

Give your best effort and let the cards fall where they may.

cheers

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

i am a huge advocate if they are going to go down the path of no more mass starts then do wave.. not TT but I think you are opening a can of worms on the above waves. How do we determine top amateurs? Kona Qual Wave? there are first timers who will have a shot but aren't starting with the guys they need to be racing against, it just smacks of elitist.. Age group is about the only way they can go and make it men and women together for age groups.

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Kirk Noyes

Downtubes are for Dinosaurs

I agree, age group waves makes more sense than opening the can of worms "who is a potential KQ, and who isn't?".

Frankfurt has a pro start, a fast age group start then the rest of the age groupers. The fast age group starters (about 350) had to provide evidence of the capability to go under 10 hours. The Frankfurt cut-off is 15 hours after the age-group start.

Roth has a wave start based on expected finishing time. Roth has a 15.5 hour cutoff from the first regular wave. The regular waves are after Pro then Sub 9 finishers.

There was no less feeling of accomplishment in either event over Lake Placid or Florida. I tried to get to the finish line as fast as I could in all four races. In an Ironman, I am doing anything but racing those around me in 250th place in the US and 550th in Europe. I am trying my best not to slow down and get to the finish line. The money was made hours earlier.

Here is a responce from the RD back in mid December about my swim course inquiry. Sounds like things have changed since then if the TT start is true. I would suggest asking Mac himself.

"To address your question I have to respond in a couple of different ways. Yes you are correct that the swim is a congested time in the race and yes it is a hectic mass start. The venues and the swims for almost all full distance Ironman races are mass starts and all have some degree of congestion at the start and the corners, even one loop swims. Ironman CdA's swim has to be a two loop segment as the lake currents and depth limit the layout. We can't keep buoys in place with accuracy of distance with the currents at the depths in locations that would allow a one loop swim. We have changed the directions of swim, we have changed the angles in the corners, and we have expanded the start area over the years, all in hopes of changing the impact of 2500 athletes swimming together. We've even looked at a time trail start. But the simple truth is with 2500 athletes there is going to be some jockeying for position and congestion.

For 2012, I am planning on doing a couple of things different at the start.
Last year we only had one entrance to the start area on the east end closest to the buoy line. This year I plan to put the entrance in the center of the start area causing the population jam to either move left or right.
Hopefully that will result in the athletes being able to seat themselves a little easier and more evenly. The second option I am looking at is increasing the length of the second leg of the triangle in hopes of giving you more distance in the early stages to separate from the pack.

I would recommend not starting directly on the buoy line. Staying to the outside or right in a counter clockwise swim puts you on the outside of the turns. And the greatest population of swimmers is against the buoys. Even though you swim a little further on the outside you are not slowed in the corners, nor have to dealing with the traffic jams in the early stages of the race. Another aspect to consider is the time you enter the water.
Staying on shore just a little longer allows the athlete population to thin
out ahead of you. On the other hand, if you are a faster swimmer, starting
out front maybe your option of choice. But remember you have to maintain that speed or the population will catch you.

I hope I have provided some insight to you on our swim course. We get feedback on the race both negative and positive. Some of that feedback is based on the athlete's day/time and some are good observations. In either case we try to address the issues and would appreciate your input after your race. Oh by the way, please remember the water temps are usually in the low
60's and upper 50's."

Just noticed he meant to say "2013" in his email not "2012".

Well, whhat I'm really advocating for is a Category system like cycling. That's how you get into the Kona qual wave.

And we do have a governing body who ranks everybody... Shoud be easy.

Elitist? Not sure what you mean... That's very reductionist... But sometimes life isn't fair

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

This has me really bummed out. It is hard to race a race when you have no idea where your competition is. To me part of racing is trying to dig down to a place where you have never had to go. I know that people are going to chime in and say that you should just "do your best". That is great and I do but if that is all I wanted to do, I could go out solo on a set course a couple times a year and just try to set a PR. I like to race against other people.

I hate it when I race a half iron race and my wave is split. I can't tell if the person I am passing is actually still in front of me if they started after me.

They put your age on your leg for a reason- to be able to know when someone is in you AG.

This is an excellent idea.....

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I'm faster in Kilometers!
Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
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I'm with Eric on this one.

AG waves are fine, but if the intent is to keep the AG together, they won't work for IMCDA (or most other IMs for that matter) if the intent is to put 100 people in the water at a time. M3539, M4044 and M4549 each have in excess of 300+ starters per AG at IMCDA.

If the KQ wave smacks of elitist, then so be it, this is IM.

It's pretty easy to show a time/previous KQ to get in the KQ wave.

Any first timers that want in the KQ wave would most likely have a 70.3 time (and if not, a simple email to the race director with the appropriate results should do the job).

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Team Kiwami
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How about if they put your "wave" number on your leg. Competitor is wave 18 and you're wave 24, then you're actually ahead by 1.5 minutes when you pass him. I'm pretty sure that I can still subtract and divide by 4, even 10 hours into an Ironman ;-)

the only way the TT system would work is the marathon corral system, sorted by swim time and not overall triathlon time. Same as a marathon, show some results and get in the corral or congo line or whatever.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Actually the lake is too deep to do a single loop