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Re: Slowman = Censorship [peterot] [ In reply to ]
 
" refer to the link I provided. Like I said, companies are going after defamatory posters fairly regularly. "
------------------
That's because in the stock business it directly effects the economics and there is an economic remedy......there is not an economic remedy for being an out of line idiot, so we have my main man Herbert, the most epic Slowman, and boy (formerly) genius Rapp to keep things in line. Personally, if I were them I'd narrow the fences even a bit more (although it would have gotten me a time or two).

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [peterot] [ In reply to ]
 
Just saw this thread. I am amazed by the lack of comprehension.

First. What Dan does is NOT censorship. He is not the government and there is no "right" to free speech on a private site. When you decide to post here you also agree to abide by the owner's rules.

Second, as a some-time editor here, and having been a moderator on another site, it is a difficult job to moderate posts. Everyone will not be happy no matter how it is done. Get over it.

Third, if you are happier on other sites stay there.

Fourth, the random comments about Dan and Jordan's motivations regarding ST are Bizzaro at best.

Finally for a point of comparison I will post a link to a closed thread from another site so you can see how extreme things can be.

(once again be warned: This thread can suck up A LOT of your time!) http://www.pirate4x4.com/...?t=399203&page=5

http://www.EpixGear.com
Last edited by: DougRob: Aug 28, 12 6:53
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [DougRob] [ In reply to ]
 
DougRob wrote:
[..] be warned: This thread can suck up A LOT of your time!) http://www.pirate4x4.com/...?t=399203&page=5

Dude, I had to close it right away. Must. Not. Re-open! ST is like a bed of roses compared to that.


 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [DougRob] [ In reply to ]
 
DougRob wrote:
Just saw this thread. I am amazed by the lack of comprehension.
First. What Dan does is NOT censorship. He is not the government and there is no "right" to free speech on a private site. When you decide to post here you also agree to abide by the owner's rules.

First. While I agree with most of what you said, before you sling comprehension insults, you should go back and read the definition for censor: to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable.

Says nothing about it needing to be a government, or even spoken aloud (self censorship). Suppress or delete anything objectionable, according to the standards of whoever is doing the censoring. What dan/jordan/herbert do, is censor. They consider not only the business model, but also the feelings and considerations of others. I can count 3 or 4 threads this year that were pulled merely as a courtesy to families/friends over tragedy, others that were pulled because they were just baseless accusations, etc. There are also threads that have been restored once the strictures of proof, naming yourself, etc. were updated.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
 
AndyPants wrote:
Good grief. Go away or contribute or lurk. Your choice.

Dan & ST has no moral or legal obligation to put up with shit like yours.

AP

As usual, people like this post without their real name. Shows all I need to know about their true character

..

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [Trash Talk] [ In reply to ]
 
Trash Talk wrote:
Slowman you should make me a mod.

A mod?


I always figured you were a rocker.

 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
 
h2ofun wrote:
AndyPants wrote:
Good grief. Go away or contribute or lurk. Your choice.

Dan & ST has no moral or legal obligation to put up with shit like yours.

AP


As usual, people like this post without their real name. Shows all I need to know about their true character

..

As opposed to the OP, who doesn't even list a first name, or location in their profile while Andy has both?

Your holier than thou attitude (Followed by a chuckling "me, I'm just a guy" post whenever called on it) really does wear thin.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
 
h2ofun wrote:
AndyPants wrote:
Good grief. Go away or contribute or lurk. Your choice.

Dan & ST has no moral or legal obligation to put up with shit like yours.

AP


As usual, people like this post without their real name. Shows all I need to know about their true character

..

There are a number of legitimate reasons why people do not use their names on the Internet. A forum member's recent stalking of another through PM's is a great example. Who needs that kind of activity in their "real" lives, when jobs and personal relationships can be put at risk....

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [JSA] [ In reply to ]
 
JSA wrote:
You are kidding, right? First, ST has a huge following, but, no one outside of tri knows about it.

That's not entirely true; I have friends in RunningAhead, and from "friends & family" forums that you probably haven't heard of, [like CoolRunning and KickRunners], and my FB friends, of course, who have all certainly heard of Slowtwitch. I'm posting links around pretty frequently, sharing whatever info or entertainment I think they'd find relevant

A lot of them are just lurkers, sure [they feel a little shy to post, because they're not all multisport athletes], but they do know about ST

Glad to help

~ Aloha ~
Randy

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
 
BDoughtie wrote:
No one wants to pay for ad space on a forum full of trash and douche bags.

_____________

Honest question because I brought this up to Dan a few weeks ago. Do you feel ST is going downhill? I've thought I have noticed the amount of respect seems to be lacking over the past 6 months or so. Dan, disagreed and thought the quality was the highest it has ever been.

ST has a reputation for being filled with the elitist triathletes. I've seen threads where people ask simple questions, get shredded by others. When I was first directed to this site by a group of athletes, they all warned me about the reputation. I've never really had any issues and have read many constructive threads that have helped me. I've purchased numerous things from the classifieds, some bike ticket items: Reynolds wheels, Felt B12 bike. All great experience.

I tell a newbie that before asking ST, you may want to google your question or go visit BT for the information. If all else fails, then ask on ST. Also be very very thick skinned.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [peterot] [ In reply to ]
 
peterot wrote:
Here is a bit of data from alexa.com - Slowtwitch sure aint growing. I am sure the censorship and forum manipulation will help with that. Industry will be happy but there wont be anyone on the site so they will pull their ads. anyway.

Alexa - like most traffic algorithms - has its very serious limitations, especially since we don't participate by using any of the big internet tracking tools - like reselling doubleclick ads. We serve every ad in house. We actually took a reasonably big hit in the short term when we gave up on give ad space to a reseller, but we didn't really like that they wouldn't abide by our ad rules strictly - no screen takeovers, no expansion ads, no sound, etc - and even had some concern about the tracking of web usage that goes on with stuff like doubleclick. So we decided to go 100% in house with our ads. But that's (part of) why Alexa data isn't going to be particularly accurate for our site. We've actually struggled with that internally, because people use sites like Alexa to evaluate sites. It would actually look better for our business to give up some of our control and make our data more public, but we're not really comfortable with that, so we don't. The only cookies that come from this site are from this forum. And whatever google analytics uses (we do need some tools). And, if you make use of the twitter/facebook share buttons or facebook comments - voluntarily of course - that gets tracked by those entities (but not by us).

Slowtwitch actually is growing quite a bit. Obviously there are a bunch of different metrics - pageviews, pages per visit, unique visitors, time on site, etc. - you can use, but on average, we're up between 15-25% on all metrics vs. a year ago.

PS: your best bet if you want to share Alexa data is to do a screen grab and post it to Tinypic. You can push the "preview post" button to see that what you did in attempting to post the Alexa data didn't actually work. Just FYI.

What I really don't understand is what you are so angry about with all this. How we run our forum clearly irritates you. And I don't really understand why. I can understand it with regards to something like Stockhouse, for the reasons I mentioned. There's money on the line. Plus the issue of censoring information leading to some sort of positional bias. But the purpose of Stockhouse is, supposedly anyway, to give/share information that is used for financial gain. Even if the stated purpose of this forum was to share information that was intended to lead to triathlon "gain" - it's not; I don't even know if we really have a stated purpose for this forum - what is the real harm that comes to you as a result of that? I.e., if someone censors Stockhouse, you could maybe say that you lost money. But if we censor some post about triathlete potentially cheating at Chicago, what is the net negative of that to you? Are we somehow taking seconds off your potential PR by censoring anonymous accusations against some random age-grouper? I guess that's what's really so mysterious about your diatribe. Why does this piss you off so much? Slowtwitch isn't Stockhouse. It's not going to be. This to a significant degree (though not entirely) because - thankfully - triathlon isn't finance. But what I don't understand is in what way that actually materially damages your triathlon experience.

As a personal aside unrelated to how I/we moderate, I think you're an asshole for slamming me for trying to give a thoughtful reply to your post, especially after you came onto a thread and asked me very probative questions about my personal finances - because, as you justified it, I said, "ask me ANYTHING." (which conveniently ignores the fact that I said "...about the Ironman US Championships" right after). That was a question which I answered in a pretty open and - it seemed by your reply to my response - helpful way. Reading your posts on this thread, you sound like a spoiled child who can't get what he wants, which - based on your reply to Murphy's Law that stated that you had a BC pension - you are not. For a guy that's old enough to earn a pension, you seriously need to grow up.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [randymar] [ In reply to ]
 
Example(s) of above

Quote:
Quote from: onawhim on August 27, 2012, 01:10:47 PM
Did anyone else hear the USADA guy in the radio interview? They posted it over on ST. He sounded very reasonable to me but what do I know?

Quote:
Quote from: MoCo on August 22, 2012, 06:43:07 PM
I love Rappstar. I'm glad he won, he seems like a nice guy.



"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [randymar] [ In reply to ]
 
I've been an administer on a forum with over 15,000 members. It wasn't fun. Always accused of censorship. It's a balance between selling ad space and open dialog. Very tough thing to do.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Rappstar wrote:
peterot wrote:
Here is a bit of data from alexa.com - Slowtwitch sure aint growing. I am sure the censorship and forum manipulation will help with that. Industry will be happy but there wont be anyone on the site so they will pull their ads. anyway.


Alexa - like most traffic algorithms - has its very serious limitations, especially since we don't participate by using any of the big internet tracking tools - like reselling doubleclick ads. We serve every ad in house. We actually took a reasonably big hit in the short term when we gave up on give ad space to a reseller, but we didn't really like that they wouldn't abide by our ad rules strictly - no screen takeovers, no expansion ads, no sound, etc - and even had some concern about the tracking of web usage that goes on with stuff like doubleclick. So we decided to go 100% in house with our ads. But that's (part of) why Alexa data isn't going to be particularly accurate for our site. We've actually struggled with that internally, because people use sites like Alexa to evaluate sites. It would actually look better for our business to give up some of our control and make our data more public, but we're not really comfortable with that, so we don't. The only cookies that come from this site are from this forum. And whatever google analytics uses (we do need some tools). And, if you make use of the twitter/facebook share buttons or facebook comments - voluntarily of course - that gets tracked by those entities (but not by us).

Slowtwitch actually is growing quite a bit. Obviously there are a bunch of different metrics - pageviews, pages per visit, unique visitors, time on site, etc. - you can use, but on average, we're up between 15-25% on all metrics vs. a year ago.

PS: your best bet if you want to share Alexa data is to do a screen grab and post it to Tinypic. You can push the "preview post" button to see that what you did in attempting to post the Alexa data didn't actually work. Just FYI.

What I really don't understand is what you are so angry about with all this. How we run our forum clearly irritates you. And I don't really understand why. I can understand it with regards to something like Stockhouse, for the reasons I mentioned. There's money on the line. Plus the issue of censoring information leading to some sort of positional bias. But the purpose of Stockhouse is, supposedly anyway, to give/share information that is used for financial gain. Even if the stated purpose of this forum was to share information that was intended to lead to triathlon "gain" - it's not; I don't even know if we really have a stated purpose for this forum - what is the real harm that comes to you as a result of that? I.e., if someone censors Stockhouse, you could maybe say that you lost money. But if we censor some post about triathlete potentially cheating at Chicago, what is the net negative of that to you? Are we somehow taking seconds off your potential PR by censoring anonymous accusations against some random age-grouper? I guess that's what's really so mysterious about your diatribe. Why does this piss you off so much? Slowtwitch isn't Stockhouse. It's not going to be. This to a significant degree (though not entirely) because - thankfully - triathlon isn't finance. But what I don't understand is in what way that actually materially damages your triathlon experience.

As a personal aside unrelated to how I/we moderate, I think you're an asshole for slamming me for trying to give a thoughtful reply to your post, especially after you came onto a thread and asked me very probative questions about my personal finances - because, as you justified it, I said, "ask me ANYTHING." (which conveniently ignores the fact that I said "...about the Ironman US Championships" right after). That was a question which I answered in a pretty open and - it seemed by your reply to my response - helpful way. Reading your posts on this thread, you sound like a spoiled child who can't get what he wants, which - based on your reply to Murphy's Law that stated that you had a BC pension - you are not. For a guy that's old enough to earn a pension, you seriously need to grow up.

Not sure how I slammed you? My questions for you regarding finance were with the expectation that you may not answer (please read the post in full). In general, I dont agree with censorship. It ruins my experience here because I come here for information and your censorship limits by ability to get info. You control the info i get and you do not allow me to make decisions for myself regarding which info I think is useless and should be tossed and which is useful or entertaining. It isnt about PRs or equipment it is about information in general. I have nothing personal against you or any mods, you are a pro that I follow and hope does well but when you have your slowtwitch professional hat on I have a problem with how you run the forum. Censorship is a significant problem whether you are first world or third and it should be address whether you are on a forum or dealing with gov. I am only 35 so I probably do have so growing up to do.
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [stratman05] [ In reply to ]
 
stratman05 wrote:
This is his "business" - pays the bills for Slowman, Herbert and Jordan. This is a "propaganda" machine, just like every news channel.

Do you think Rapp would be as high profile triathlete without ST? He's got the marketing savy, so probably yes, but he seems to be doing more for the Rapp brand being on slowtwitch then his actual racing.

Absolutely. There is no question that I certainly do way WAY more for my brand being on here than by racing. There are 26 (last I counted; it might be more now) Ironman races around the globe each year. There are 836 pro athletes on the KPR list alone. Being a "pro triathlete" is pretty meaningless. Even being a pro triathlete that wins races is pretty meaningless. There's ONE long course race where simply winning makes you famous - Kona. That's it. You win Kona, people buy what you use, though even that's debatable. It matters HOW you win. People didn't give a shit what shoes Normann Stadler wore when he won, because he won the races on the bike.

Triathlon is not a mass media sport, though even within a mass media sport like the NBA, it's only really the stars that sell simply by virtue of who they are. People bought Air Jordans shoes because of MJ. Nobody was out there in the shops asking for the latest shoes that Raef Lafrentz was wearing when he was playing. Just go into any sporting good store. You can't get every jersey. Even in the home town of a team, you still can't get every jersey. Nobody cares about some special teams grunt in the NFL. And that guy is better than 99.9999% of everyone who plays the game of football.

So, yes, you are absolutely right that I'm doing more for my brand by being here than by actually racing. And your point is? That I realize that I need to do more to earn a living than winning one of the five Ironmans that took place in the month of August?

This IS our business (both slowtwitch alone in my case as I work for Dan, but also in the larger sense of my business of being a pro triathlete) - no need to put it in quotation marks.

As for whether or not it's a propaganda machine, on the other hand, what is the particular cause or point of view we are trying to promote (or discourage)? That's a necessary component of propaganda. You can certainly accuse me of propaganda - my own best interest is quite obviously what I want to promote (duh). But what do you suppose is the point of view that Slowtwitch at large is focused on? Fox News = "conservative." MSNBC = "liberal." Slowtwitch = ? I'm interested to know what you think the answer to that last one is...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [peterot] [ In reply to ]
 
peterot wrote:

You control the info i get and you do not allow me to make decisions for myself regarding which info I think is useless and should be tossed and which is useful or entertaining.

When you control the mail . . . you control . . . information.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg_4z2adv6Q
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [peterot] [ In reply to ]
 
peterot wrote:
.




Here is a bit of data from alexa.com - Slowtwitch sure aint growing. I am sure the censorship and forum manipulation will help with that. Industry will be happy but there wont be anyone on the site so they will pull their ads. anyway.

You clearly don't understand SEO. I just spent the better part of an hour slicing and dicing Slowtwich and they are not only growing, they are doing quite well. Jordan is correct about the Alexa Rank algorithms having serious limitations. Trust me I know this first hand. Next time do your homework thoroughly. If you don't like it here then LEAVE. Below is a little bit of data, since you seem to be the expert, you know how to break it down and what it all means.


Google Inbound Links: 82
Inbound Links: 28,439
Unique Monthly Visitors: 43,307
Organic Keywords: 12,580
Page Rank: 5

And BTW, their Alexa Rank doesn't suck.



"Though she be but little, she is fierce" ~Shakespeare | Powered by HD Coaching | 2014 Wattie Ink Triathlon Team | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [Power13] [ In reply to ]
 
Power13 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
AndyPants wrote:
Good grief. Go away or contribute or lurk. Your choice.

Dan & ST has no moral or legal obligation to put up with shit like yours.

AP


As usual, people like this post without their real name. Shows all I need to know about their true character

..


There are a number of legitimate reasons why people do not use their names on the Internet. A forum member's recent stalking of another through PM's is a great example. Who needs that kind of activity in their "real" lives, when jobs and personal relationships can be put at risk....

Fine, just do not attack others, IMO.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [peterot] [ In reply to ]
 
peterot wrote:
Not sure how I slammed you?

I'm sorry, I must have read your statement that I "spew BS" in an unintended manner. Please tell me how you really meant that if it wasn't in a derogatory way.

And I am aware that you didn't expect me to answer the question. However, I still answered it. And yet you come on here and then post some diatribe about how greedy we are and how we only make decisions based on the money and how we censor the shit out of this forum all because of what? We locked a thread on whether or not some guy might have cheated in Chicago? Or because we have a rule that you can't accuse someone of doping without proof? Or what?

You seem to feel that we censor the majority of information on here. We don't even censor an infinitesimally small fraction. The sum total word count of The New Testament gets posted on this forum approximately every two days (maybe less; that was the last time we did a word count: time check). We have THREE moderators. We all do a lot more than moderate this forum. Even if we wanted to censor a lot of stuff - which we don't - we couldn't. We do our best to try and keep some semblance of order and to keep threads from getting out of hand with regards to unfounded accusations. If you somehow feel you cheated by not being privy to that information, my short answer is I'm sorry. As I said, there's a thread for you here that we basically leave totally uncensored - http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ch_here._P1566945-24

For some unknown reason, I actually held off doing my actual job to try to address your concerns. Let me offer you a simple choice. Stay or leave. I don't care which. But if you stay, this is a TRIATHLON FORUM. That means your bitching and moaning about censorship doesn't belong here (in this particular forum). If you post another thread in here along those lines, I'll ban you and delete your account. If you want to stay and post, that's fine too. And you can even post more shit like this. Just keep this particular type of shit in The Lavender Room - which we basically run like Stockhouse, so you should feel right at home - so that I don't have to read it and waste my time on someone playing the self-righteous and entitled asshole.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
 
Murphy'sLaw wrote:
Frequenty Asked Questions? Who gives a fuck?

I understand frequently asked questions. But go back and read how he used FAQ. He used it in place of fuck. Hence me asking what the fuck is a faq

_________________________________________________
When all is said and done. More is usually said than done
Ba Ba Booey

 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Rappstar wrote:
peterot wrote:
Not sure how I slammed you?


I'm sorry, I must have read your statement that I "spew BS" in an unintended manner. Please tell me how you really meant that if it wasn't in a derogatory way.


But he said "with all due respect..."


I spent some time as a mod on a cycling forum before realizing it was consuming my nights and running away screaming, and it's a thankless job that's a lot harder than it looks. There'll always be whiners, some more vocal than others, but you guys do a good job.
Last edited by: DrPete: Aug 28, 12 9:32
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [DougRob] [ In reply to ]
 
DougRob wrote:
First. What Dan does is NOT censorship. He is not the government and there is no "right" to free speech on a private site. When you decide to post here you also agree to abide by the owner's rules.

Exactly; like others have said: His house, his rules

The Clash - Know Your Rights


"Number 3: You have the right to freeeee
Speech as long as you're not
Dumb enough to actually try it."


I don't mean that in a "Watch what you say or you'll get moderated by Big Brother" kinda way, but more like "Better to remain Silent and be thought a Fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. Abraham Lincoln" way

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
KyraMorgan wrote:
If you don't like it here then LEAVE.

I think there's a Last Word issue here at stake, otherwise I'm sure he would have by now

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
KyraMorgan wrote:

You clearly don't understand SEO. I just spent the better part of an hour slicing and dicing Slowtwich and they are not only growing, they are doing quite well. Jordan is correct about the Alexa Rank algorithms having serious limitations. Trust me I know this first hand. Next time do your homework thoroughly. If you don't like it here then LEAVE. Below is a little bit of data, since you seem to be the expert, you know how to break it down and what it all means.


Google Inbound Links: 82
Inbound Links: 28,439
Unique Monthly Visitors: 43,307
Organic Keywords: 12,580
Page Rank: 5

And BTW, their Alexa Rank doesn't suck.

Thank you.. I'm glad someone actually pulled legitimate info (seomoz and sem rush I'm guessing). When Jordan says they're keeping this inhouse and Slowtwitch.com has a PA of 72 and that many unique views, I'm impressed.
 
Re: Slowman = Censorship [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Please delete my account. Thanks.
 

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