Everyone posting in this thread should better edumacate themselves on USAT Elite memberships...

Missy Franklin is going to finish high school and go to college. She'll continue competing at both levels. Guess we need to stick her in some ex-olympians only meet since it won't be fair to all the other swimmers and they might not win.

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Several.

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I have deceptive speed.........I'm slower than I look!

Maybe try a change in perspective. Say you showed up last year and raced Susan Williams and came second. Instead of looking at it as 'I would have been the USAT age group 40-44 champion if that ex-Olympian wasn't allowed to race!' you could look at it as 'I was lucky enough to race an Olympic bronze medalist head-to-head at USAT nationals!'. It's a pretty cool aspect of our sport that there are these opportunities to race legends of the sport.

Race a legend? The exact reason she should race against other legends? We are still racing against ourselves and our peers, our AG peers. Yes, some are fast and others faster. What to race a pro, get fast and become a pro!

Please try to make a coherent statement. The above makes zero sense and I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

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Have you seen this thread?

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I placed 2nd overall to Oklahoma pro Daniel Agnew...beat me by 1.5 mins. I'm like "sweet". Then Zoot Elite team member Chuck Sloan destroys us all by 10 mins. at the Regional Sprint champs in Ark. Was I pissed? Yeah, but only because he beat us so bad that our rankings points were shot to hell! I could care less who shows up...race the clock!

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Sorry can't explain everything, read above. So @ Travis Thomason, are you an AG'er or Elite?

So what you're really saying is that you want to win your AG, but you want USAT to exclude the best people so that you can do it? Seems logical to me...

@Paulo, what does that have to do this thread? Whining? Just asking questions, getting driving answers about different points of view. What's your take? You train Elites and Pro's, do you think they should be able to race as an AG'er at anytime?

When you type something that doesn't make sense you should explain it. Judging from your previous statements you don't do a lot of research so despite the fact that I don't hide anonymously on the internet and it should be pretty easy for you to discover whether I race elite or AG I'll save you the time. AG. I've beaten guys carrying pro cards who probably shouldn't be but are trying to make a career of it. I've been destroyed by amateurs who are better then then a lot of card carrying elites as well. What you don't seem to get is that just because someone has an elite card does not then magically make them faster then all the other AG'ers out there. If and when they decide to hang it up from racing triathlon professionally they will be back to racing AG if you want to continue in the sport and this is exactly where they belong. The majority of the top amateurs you see at any significant event could be easily racing as professionals if they chose to. Maybe you should be complaining that they are too fast now.

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It has nothing to do with me! Don't you get it! It's about racing cherry pickers! Get it!

It actually is about you. No one else seems to have a problem with it.

Um, considering that I qualified for it this year (not going) the bar can't be very high. I'm embarassignly slow.

For the record I have no issues whatsoever with the current policy.

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"Unless you have a ... GF who might put out that night and that night only ... skip it and race." - AndyPants 3-15-2007

I think that it's great for the sport that great champions like Susan Williams and others remain in the sport after their career as professional athletes has ended. Athletes like Susan Williams are amazing ambassadors for the sport not only for what they did, but what they are doing now as professionals in other fields and family people. As such, we should be thankful to have such wonderful people involved in our sport and should embrace their presence.

I am not sure to what kind of humankind you belong to, but in my part of humankind we don't tell other people that they're "not one of us." There are many kinds of discrimination and even if you think that your kind of discrimination is acceptable, it is not. So hopefully you will realize this, apologize to Susan Williams and others that you are discriminating against and embrace the great opportunity you have to compete with such amazing athletes.

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What?!

Pro, Elite, Age Group, who cares. Show up on race day, put in your best effort and go on from there.

By the way, most people couldn't give two $&!ts about the USAT rankings.

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You have no idea! This forum is the exact opposite of the general consensus. Like where did all the democrats come from? All my friends are republican!

Then go back to your little echo chamber so you can get the answer that you want to hear.

Susan Williams is a cherry picker because she's a mid 40's ex-pro who showed up to race what should be a national championship of the best athletes in each age group?!?!?! Is this seriously the freaking issue you have???

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Turn it into discrimination? To exclude or to separate? We do that with AG'ers, Elites and Pro's now? Are you assuming it's bad to have an Olympian race other Olympians , Pro's and Elites? You agree with allowing an Olympian to race AG? Then why categorize anything?

Surprised this is a debated issue! If you are pro, you race pro. If you're not a pro, you race "age group". AG is just a label we have given to amateur and recreational competitors. There are no prerequisites to be an "age grouper". Once a pro retires, they are now amateurs. They are now AGers. If any pro retires and then wants to continue competing recreationally, nobody should ever tell them that they can't do that. When a pro decides to stop racing pro, they risk losing sponsorships and prizes. SO if they are in their peak, I don't see the logic in retiring. However, they can do whatever they want. To disallow somebody's participation just because they are fit is ridiculous.

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Paulo I apologize for all the bad things I've ever said about you. I guess we can at least agree on this one.

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At what point do we say someone is a legend and then say only they can race each other? If you make the Olympics can you only race Olympians after you are done racing as an Elite? When and where would they race. They would have a wave 2 athletes. In masters swimming it happens all the time that former greats get back in the water and race. They don't have the time to train full time and they are older and simply are not fast enough any more, but they still like to see what they can achieve and push the boundaries of themselves. She does not want to race Pro, but still likes to race. Someone said the same about Master cyclists. I think its great that these athletes get back in and do it showing that its more of a commitment to a healthier life. Since I have my elite licnse, in the future, 10 years down the road, am I no longer able to race simply because I once had my elite license? What should I do in 20 or 30 years and I still want to race? Sorry, you got old, off the pastures for you. I got my elite licnese because I wanted to race against the best, to toe the line with them and messure myself against them, shoulder to shoulder. Sometime in the not so distant future I won't be able to do that any more, but I will still want to measure myself, but it will only be against myself. Saying its flawed because someone achieved something in her past is a flawed argument. Its not like she just won her bronze medal on the 4th and in now competing as an age-grouper in just over a week. That would be a flawed policy. Its age-group nationals and you race against the best in your age-group. If is still the best ,then that is who you should be racing. For those who are faster, or were born with better genetics, should we limit them in some way. Cameron Dye can average 360 watts for a Olympic tri and I can average only 300 and I weigth 15 pounds more than him, so we should limit his cycling, apply his break a little bit because its not fair that he is faster or stronger than me? The same would apply to an age-group race: Age Group athlete A should be given a time penalty because they swam in college and Athlete B did not. It just does not make sense. Competition is Competition. Its not like she is racing a bunch of 8 year olds and kick ass.